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(Politico)   You know it's bad when a "good night" in Ferguson results in only 6 arrests. Progress, people   ( politico.com) divider line
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1856 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2014 at 7:44 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-21 08:26:05 AM  
4 votes:

LazyMedia: Dinobot: Twitter was reporting that one of the CNN guys was snitching out Indy media to the cops so they would be removed and arrested from the Media area.

If you don't have a press pass, you're not "indy media," you're a tourist. Your blog doesn't make you media. Get a job.


www.adbusters.org

We spend all this time biatching about the media.  People think the media is failing them so they go out, successfully or unsuccessfully, to try to right that wrong.  Do you really have a problem with that, especially in a situation like this?  That seems odd to me considering your handle.
2014-08-21 07:55:35 AM  
3 votes:

Dinobot: Twitter was reporting that one of the CNN guys was snitching out Indy media to the cops so they would be removed and arrested from the Media area.


If you don't have a press pass, you're not "indy media," you're a tourist. Your blog doesn't make you media. Get a job.
2014-08-21 11:33:57 AM  
2 votes:

iremo: It's hard to see why, if Wilson was badly hurt, the police would keep that under wraps. That makes the cop's side of the story look  much better. It would gain them a lot of support, even more than showing the cigar theft video did. So why would we not have heard about this from any official source? It's possible that he was significantly injured but the police department had a sensible reason not to tell anyone but some bloggers, though it doesn't seem super likely.

(Just like it doesn't seem super likely that a teen who just had an altercation with a cop would run approx 35 feet away, pivot around, and start "bumrushing" back at the officer in what would be essentially a suicide by cop over, at worst, cigar theft.)

(Or super likely that at least three, maybe more witnesses got on the same page about "Let's tell the media he was surrendering!" so quickly.)

All of the these things are of course possible! Whether they fall within the purview of reasonable doubt should be decided by a jury. At a trial. After they indict the guy for second-degree murder.


The other side of this story is that a gentle natured teen was found jaywalking by a racist cop.

The racist cop made him raise his hands in the air, then shoot him anyways, in front of many witnesses in the middle of the daylight.

The racist cop had been in many dangerous situations before, and had spent 8 years working in a minority neighborhood without ever once firing his weapon....... but, he felt today was a good day to randomly pick a teenager to execute.

The shot fire inside the officer's car probably didn't even have anything to do with Michael Brown.

/Assumptions make us look stupid. Knock it off.
2014-08-21 09:10:42 AM  
2 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: MyRandomName: Grungehamster: Two updates that are interesting:

1) More national media is claiming that sources close to the investigation have told them Wilson suffered a severe facial injury and needed to go to the hospital for his injuries. If we assume that the video of him pacing at the scene is actually of him and that these sources are true I think we'll be getting into a major argument of the definition of "severe" (to be that comfortable to show no distress would likely make it a hairline fracture I would have to think.)

2) Remember the "Josie" phone call that claimed to be from Wilson's friend and gave his side of the story? I thought the Facebook images that have been floating around telling a similar story were likely made by someone hoping to spread Josie's account with a bit more authority but which had some glaring inaccuracies not in Josie's story (like that Brown was charging and was only two or three feet from Wilson when he put the final bullet in his head despite no GPR) that betrayed it wasn't true. Turns out the media not only confirmed that the Facebook account was fake (well, to be fair, they confirmed that it wasn't set up until after Wilson's name was announced publicly; it's technically possible his Weeners to his name being announced was to delete everything before the day of the announcement to prevent controversy but then decided to write up a giant post on his side of the story despite his department purposely refusing to give any firm details of Wilson's version of events until the investigation is complete but it would be really, really, stupid.) However, the more interesting thing is that the Josie call happened several days after the Facebook post; despite CNN calling the Facebook post a fake they claimed to have confirmed with anonymous sources close to the investigation that Josie's version is basically Wilson's version of events, which has interesting implications (though very different ones if they both turn out to be true or false.)

1) do you know of a substance called adrenaline?

2) tin foil hat warning please.

Lol. Yeah adrenaline makes your dominant eye that is shattered have perfect aim.


The autopsy report contradicts your perfect aim theory. Do you ever tire of being ignorant?
2014-08-21 09:07:27 AM  
2 votes:

King Something: Dictatorial_Flair: GungFu: Whoo..just saw the other one where the dude went shopping without any cash...repeatedly, and when the cops come he politely asks the cops to shoot him. They oblige. Repeatedly. He dead now. He very dead. Shop owner down 2 drinks and a pastry.

Was that in Ferguson as well? Dat's farked up, dawg.

You left out the "he was waving a weapon around and acting crazy" part. If you relentlessly approach cops while brandishing a knife, at any speed, you're almost guaranteed to get shot. Maybe they could have done something besides shooting the guy, but people who do what he did usually end up getting shot.

[img2.timeinc.net image 300x400]
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 479x604]

Usually.

/these guys had guns, btw. slightly more lethal than knives, I think


Not every "guy with a gun" scenario is the same.

Holmes was arrested by his car without a weapon at ready.

Loughner was attacked and subdued by bystanders when he dropped his magazine while reloading

Tensions are still high enough, you don't need to worsen things by perpetuating cheap disingenuous soundbites.
2014-08-21 08:17:12 AM  
2 votes:
A good night would be a night when all the bad police in Missouri are fired, when non-lethal weapons are only used against actual threats, and deadly force is only used as an absolute last resort. That was a quiet night... not a good night.
2014-08-21 08:07:45 AM  
2 votes:

GungFu: Whoo..just saw the other one where the dude went shopping without any cash...repeatedly, and when the cops come he politely asks the cops to shoot him. They oblige. Repeatedly. He dead now. He very dead. Shop owner down 2 drinks and a pastry.

Was that in Ferguson as well? Dat's farked up, dawg.


You left out the "he was waving a weapon around and acting crazy" part. If you relentlessly approach cops while brandishing a knife, at any speed, you're almost guaranteed to get shot. Maybe they could have done something besides shooting the guy, but people who do what he did usually end up getting shot.
2014-08-21 08:04:12 AM  
2 votes:

LazyMedia: Your blog doesn't make you media. Get a job.


People have made millions of dollars from their blogs.
2014-08-21 04:26:03 PM  
1 vote:

rinasaunce: Geoff Peterson: I am saying that the acts that happened in that span of probably less than 30 seconds is whats important and anything else is a distraction.

You said "irrelevant strawman" earlier which was pejorative.  Again, the focus will be broader than simply the last seconds of what was a very short and violent incident.  Once a policeman is punched and a gun is discharged, if the cop was running after M. Brown and M. Brown turns to face him that distance could have closed very quickly and in seconds.....  so yes, the entire DAY of both men will be reviewed and certainly the robbery which occurred minutes before will be relevant.


Sure...if you're wanting to come up with an excuse for murder, absolutely.
2014-08-21 01:11:14 PM  
1 vote:

DROxINxTHExWIND: jst3p: DROxINxTHExWIND: jst3p: You are still wrong. If you are in a part of town that is unusual for your socioeconomic status will be asked what you are doing there.

You seem to be agreeing with me. Not sure what part of what I said was wrong. Are you suggesting that I replace the word "probably" with "always" or something?

You said "You probably won't be asked why you're in a certain part of town. There are differences."

I am saying you are wrong, you probably will no matter what color you are.


Oh. Semantics. Just to clarify, probably leaves wiggle room both ways. And I stand by my assertion that it happens much more frequently to African-Americans than it does to middle-aged white guys, like the gentleman who I was responding too.


And I will stand by my assertion that you are pulling that out of your ass. "Where are you going? What are you doing here?" are common questions asked to anyone who looks less than middle class. People who are doing wrong will sometimes incriminate themselves out of nervousness. Standard cop tactic is to as open ended questions and let them ramble on.

But if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem is a nail. Racism is your nail.
2014-08-21 12:55:09 PM  
1 vote:

jst3p: DROxINxTHExWIND: jst3p: DROxINxTHExWIND: mjohnson71: DROxINxTHExWIND: mjohnson71: I used this example in another thread:
Let's say you work in Ferguson at the world headquarters for Emerson Electric. It's lunch and you feel like going to Goody Goody Diner which is 3 1/2 miles away in north St. Louis City. If you drive just 3 1/2 miles you'll drive through 8 towns, 7 of which have their own police force. And since all of those little towns of 200, 400 or 800 people don't have the tax base they pull people over all the time and write tickets like mad. That's part of the reason there's so much built-up tension between the largely African American community of North County and police.


I'm sure the African Americans in Fewrguson are angry about much more than traffic tickets. Look at the rates of searches and arrests for blacks versus whites...and look at the fact that whites in STL were more likely to be holding contraband. The police forces are racist. They're not pulling blacks over to generate revenue for the town. They're searching and locking black people up.

It's a multitude of things: part of which you described. But I'm a white middle aged male who drives a minivan and even my backside puckers up when driving through that area. Because the cops will pull you over in a heartbeat for doing 25.6 in a 25mph zone or for having a single worn out windshield wiper blade.


Sure they will. But when they approach your car you won't be held at gunpoint. You won't be told to sit on the curb with your ankles crossed while they "just search for weapons". You probably won't be asked why you're in a certain part of town. There are differences.

You make valid points but I can assure you when you are pulled over in a part of town know for drugs or prostitution they will ask what you are doing there, even if you are white.

Now highlighted for your reading pleasure.

You are still wrong. If you are in a part of town that is unusual for your socioeconomic status will be asked ...


I've tried to explain to my black friends (yes, I have them so therefore I can't be racist) that the whole "what are you doing/where are you going/who are you visiting" interrogation barrage even comes at us white people even when we're in the right part of town for the way we look and the car we're driving.
2014-08-21 12:51:54 PM  
1 vote:

DROxINxTHExWIND: mjohnson71: I used this example in another thread:
Let's say you work in Ferguson at the world headquarters for Emerson Electric. It's lunch and you feel like going to Goody Goody Diner which is 3 1/2 miles away in north St. Louis City. If you drive just 3 1/2 miles you'll drive through 8 towns, 7 of which have their own police force. And since all of those little towns of 200, 400 or 800 people don't have the tax base they pull people over all the time and write tickets like mad. That's part of the reason there's so much built-up tension between the largely African American community of North County and police.


I'm sure the African Americans in Fewrguson are angry about much more than traffic tickets. Look at the rates of searches and arrests for blacks versus whites...and look at the fact that whites in STL were more likely to be holding contraband. The police forces are racist. They're not pulling blacks over to generate revenue for the town. They're searching and locking black people up.


The FPD are pooling over more African-Americans because they are the majority population of the town. Period end of story.
2014-08-21 12:49:11 PM  
1 vote:

DROxINxTHExWIND: jst3p: DROxINxTHExWIND: mjohnson71: DROxINxTHExWIND: mjohnson71: I used this example in another thread:
Let's say you work in Ferguson at the world headquarters for Emerson Electric. It's lunch and you feel like going to Goody Goody Diner which is 3 1/2 miles away in north St. Louis City. If you drive just 3 1/2 miles you'll drive through 8 towns, 7 of which have their own police force. And since all of those little towns of 200, 400 or 800 people don't have the tax base they pull people over all the time and write tickets like mad. That's part of the reason there's so much built-up tension between the largely African American community of North County and police.


I'm sure the African Americans in Fewrguson are angry about much more than traffic tickets. Look at the rates of searches and arrests for blacks versus whites...and look at the fact that whites in STL were more likely to be holding contraband. The police forces are racist. They're not pulling blacks over to generate revenue for the town. They're searching and locking black people up.

It's a multitude of things: part of which you described. But I'm a white middle aged male who drives a minivan and even my backside puckers up when driving through that area. Because the cops will pull you over in a heartbeat for doing 25.6 in a 25mph zone or for having a single worn out windshield wiper blade.


Sure they will. But when they approach your car you won't be held at gunpoint. You won't be told to sit on the curb with your ankles crossed while they "just search for weapons". You probably won't be asked why you're in a certain part of town. There are differences.

You make valid points but I can assure you when you are pulled over in a part of town know for drugs or prostitution they will ask what you are doing there, even if you are white.


Now highlighted for your reading pleasure.


You are still wrong. If you are in a part of town that is unusual for your socioeconomic status will be asked what you are doing there.
2014-08-21 12:43:18 PM  
1 vote:

dr_blasto: I'll buy the broken face story when the hospital confirms the ER admission and releases what they certify as the cop's CT or Xray scans. Too much bullshiat to buy anything about it now, they have zero cred.


So the only proof that you'll accept requires a criminal act on the hospital's part to provide it to you?

Are you that ignorant or are you just trying so hard to hang on to your narrative that you are willing to demand the impossible so as not to have to reconsider it?
2014-08-21 11:16:23 AM  
1 vote:

Dansker: kindms: Dansker:
I don't care how much money people make. Can you name a blogger who writes informative background articles and features based on extensive, independent research? I've been looking for one for years. I've mostly found people who quote news articles and tell us their opinions.

Glenn Greewald was an independent blogger. He was independent when working for Salon and the Guardian if i recall correctly. I think most of the folks working at the intercept started out similar as well. Jeremy Scahill albeit a photog etc

Being a high profile journalist working for the Guardian is not being an independent blogger or a representative of "new media". The Guardian is about as old media as you can get.


except prior to working for the Guardian that is exactly what he was and if you recall after the snowden leaks was still being disparaged by the MSM as a "blogger"
2014-08-21 10:39:08 AM  
1 vote:

Gunny Highway: Dansker: For every one blogger or amateur video reporter doing something worthwhile, there's a million others flooding the media landscape. And if you're just standing in a media pen with a bunch of other reporters, you're not contributing something valuable.

What is the harm of letting them stand in the media pen.  Why is there a media pen at all?


Ostenisibly to keep journalists out of harms way, and it's a safe bet that it's not something the media asked for. But since it's there and being enforced, it can only physically hold so many people.
Besides, if you're independent, non-acredited media, the police can't tell you to stay in the media pen, so for farks sake take anvantage of that and report from the frontline or behind the scenes instead.
2014-08-21 10:37:03 AM  
1 vote:

Grungehamster: Two updates that are interesting:

1) More national media is claiming that sources close to the investigation have told them Wilson suffered a severe facial injury and needed to go to the hospital for his injuries. If we assume that the video of him pacing at the scene is actually of him and that these sources are true I think we'll be getting into a major argument of the definition of "severe" (to be that comfortable to show no distress would likely make it a hairline fracture I would have to think.)

2) Remember the "Josie" phone call that claimed to be from Wilson's friend and gave his side of the story? I thought the Facebook images that have been floating around telling a similar story were likely made by someone hoping to spread Josie's account with a bit more authority but which had some glaring inaccuracies not in Josie's story (like that Brown was charging and was only two or three feet from Wilson when he put the final bullet in his head despite no GPR) that betrayed it wasn't true. Turns out the media not only confirmed that the Facebook account was fake (well, to be fair, they confirmed that it wasn't set up until after Wilson's name was announced publicly; it's technically possible his Weeners to his name being announced was to delete everything before the day of the announcement to prevent controversy but then decided to write up a giant post on his side of the story despite his department purposely refusing to give any firm details of Wilson's version of events until the investigation is complete but it would be really, really, stupid.) However, the more interesting thing is that the Josie call happened several days after the Facebook post; despite CNN calling the Facebook post a fake they claimed to have confirmed with anonymous sources close to the investigation that Josie's version is basically Wilson's version of events, which has interesting implications (though very different ones if they both turn out to be true or false.)


I'll buy the broken face story when the hospital confirms the ER admission and releases what they certify as the cop's CT or Xray scans. Too much bullshiat to buy anything about it now, they have zero cred.
2014-08-21 10:18:50 AM  
1 vote:
CSB:  I worked part time in a prison ER for awhile, seeing at need populations for student loan forgiveness, etc.  Plus, it was actually kind of interesting treating the prison population--certainly gave me some perspective.

One night, right before my shift ended, a prisoner in AD-SEG (the 'hole') declared a medical emergency, stating he was having chest pain.  During the examination, he had an arm free and punched me in the right side of my face while I was listening with my stethoscope.  Knocked me back a few feet, then he was promptly secured by the officers.  I had to fill out paperwork on the incident, give an immediate statement, etc before I went to the hospital.  I didn't think anything was wrong with me, as I really didn't feel anything at all in regards to pain--although I was pretty hyped up obviously.

When I got to the hospital, x-ray showed I had a maxillary fracture.  Later that night, my face became extremely swollen and started hurting like hell.  Next day, I had trouble smiling (or really showing any emotion) due to how sore/swollen my face was.

So TL;DR--it doesn't shock me at all he was walking around with a facial fracture.  I did, was quite sure I had nothing extensive in terms of damage...and I have medical education.  He was probably just hyped up on adrenalin.


In other news, did you guys see this?

https://www.gofundme.com/SupportOfficerWilson


That fund raiser accumulated 123k in 3 days, that shocked the hell out of me.
2014-08-21 10:14:49 AM  
1 vote:

Grungehamster: mjohnson71: Well, hopefully black votership will increase in Ferguson.

Matthew Yglesias had a great article about how if anything good comes out of this mess it's highly likely that civic participation will increase in the area. May not fix any sort of perceived wrongs but might go a long way to give people a feeling that they have a say in what goes down around them.


When only white people vote you get the guy who looks like the assistant manager of the body shop at the local Chevy dealership.

cdn1.vox-cdn.com
2014-08-21 10:05:20 AM  
1 vote:

SBinRR: HotWingConspiracy: LazyMedia: Your blog doesn't make you media. Get a job.

People have made millions of dollars from their blogs.

Who?
Serious question.  No snark.


Arianna Huffington made a few bucks from her blog
2014-08-21 09:56:39 AM  
1 vote:

theflatline: Litterbox: TeamEd: theflatline: A crazed person saying shoot me or kill can be an imminent threat to attack because it shows they do not give a damn about their life so why should they give a damn about anyone elses

Here is a pic of a cop in Colombia who was trying to calm down a crazy guy, who was also saying "kill me I dont care" where do you think the knife ended up, in the cop.

And that looks like a good example of why cops need to be trained to properly assess the threat posed by any individual. Perhaps they did everything right in the recent St. Louis situation, who knows? There's video up thread, but I'm not particularly inclined to watch it this morning.

WTF do you know about police training?  Ive been a cop over 20 years and when facing someone with a weapon, you dont try to "properly assess" someone.  If they are a risk to themselves or others, you deal with it.  If they come at you with the knife, you shoot to stop them.  Instead of monday morning quarterbacking, why dont you apply at your local police department so that we can benefit from your vast tactical experience.

He is Canadian, they probably have some sort of video game there where you play as a mounted policed rescuing cats from trees.

The mean streets of Ottawa.


There are lots of times where cops are justified in shooting someone. There also appears to be a lot of times when cops shoot when they do not know how to engage mentally disturbed individuals. Up here, this case is currently big news exactly for our cops inability to deescalate a man with knife situation.

Police arrived at the scene. At the front of the vehicle, Constable James Forcillo of the called for a multiple times, believing the situation "could be contained". According to videos of the incident, police asked Yatim to drop the knife and warned him not to "take one step in this direction". Nine shots were subsequently fired by police; three initially, followed by an additional six about five seconds later. Approximately 30 seconds later, a Taser was deployed on Yatim by a second officer.

In Canada, that gets a cop charged with second degree murder.
2014-08-21 09:47:19 AM  
1 vote:

mjohnson71: TeamEd: // The USA prison system is completely counter productive. I'm relatively unsympathetic to the prisoners, but the American system absolutely does not reduce crime -- and that should be the goal of any prison system.

I mostly agree. But stats like this don't help our argument.
[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x642]


There are many possible reasons for the essentially global decrease in crime rates (I'll get to that in a sec), but most studies suggest that "tough on crime" approaches have at best a negligible effect on reducing crime.
http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/fact-sheets/2013/1 0/ 08/prison-time-served-and-recidivism
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/24/making-pr is on-worse-doesnt-reduce-crime-it-increases-it/
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/gendreau.pdf

A study by a Canadian criminologist Paul Gendreau brought together the results of 50 different studies of the deterrent effect of imprisonment involving over 300,000 offenders. The report said: "None of the analyses found imprisonment reduced recidivism. The recidivism rate for offenders who were imprisoned as opposed to given a community sanction was similar. In addition, longer sentences were not associated with reduced recidivism. In fact the opposite was found. Longer sentences were associated with a 3% increase in recidivism. This finding suggests some support for the theory that prison may serve as a 'school for crime' for some offenders".

The point here is that crime rates have decreased at best independently from prison policies.

As for why crime rates have gone down, who knows? This isn't as far fetched as it first sounds:

i.dailymail.co.uk
2014-08-21 09:45:32 AM  
1 vote:

mjohnson71: A blog with enough revenue to warrant having a lawyer.


If money defines journalistic legitimacy, kindly explain CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, The Daily Mail, The New York Post and the Washington Times.
2014-08-21 09:41:17 AM  
1 vote:
So now that we know the cop got a skull fracture, only one question remains:  Who should I loot and throw molotov cocktails at?
2014-08-21 09:39:04 AM  
1 vote:

LazyMedia: If you don't have a press pass, you're not "indy media," you're a tourist. Your blog doesn't make you media. Get a job.


I'm not so sure.  A whole lot of timely reporting is coming out of schmucks with cameras.  The teargassing of various media groups, that chucklehead cop threatening to kill a kid leap to mind.  CNN didn't bring you that stuff.  Bloggers did.
2014-08-21 09:37:49 AM  
1 vote:

JulieAzel626: In attempt to answer the question who is a journalist and who is not, well, here is something to think about: There are many professions where you need some kind of formal license by some kind of government entity, be it on the federal, state or local level. To be a doctor or lawyer you need a license and be recognized by your state. To do hair and nails you need some kind of state license. To be a tattoo artist you need a license. To drive a taxi in many metro areas you need to get a local business license. In some places to be a fast food worker you need a "food handler's card," as some local governments in Southern California require. The one thing you do not need any formal license to do is being a journalist and/or owning a press (whether that press is television, print or blog), because a free press is guaranteed in our Constitution.


Reasonable restrictions.

There should at least be a background check and a 10 day waiting period to be a journalist.
And no journalisting on school grounds or a government building and your film has to be in a separate compartment than the camera while travelling....
2014-08-21 09:29:11 AM  
1 vote:

TeamEd: alizeran: TeamEd: Dictatorial_Flair: TeamEd: Dictatorial_Flair: GungFu: Whoo..just saw the other one where the dude went shopping without any cash...repeatedly, and when the cops come he politely asks the cops to shoot him. They oblige. Repeatedly. He dead now. He very dead. Shop owner down 2 drinks and a pastry.

Was that in Ferguson as well? Dat's farked up, dawg.

You left out the "he was waving a weapon around and acting crazy" part. If you relentlessly approach cops while brandishing a knife, at any speed, you're almost guaranteed to get shot. Maybe they could have done something besides shooting the guy, but people who do what he did usually end up getting shot.

Video is first the official police account, then amateur video of the event. Not casting judgement, just putting it out there.

Don't really want to watch that today. But I thought this was instructive of cops' attitudes:

"Certainly a Taser is an option that's available to the officers, but Tasers aren't 100 percent," [St. Louis Police Chief Sam] Dotson said. "So you've got an individual with a knife who's moving towards you, not listening to any verbal commands, continues, says, 'shoot me now, kill me now.' Tasers aren't 100 percent. if that Taser misses, that [individual] continues on and hurts an officer."
"In a lethal situation, they used lethal force," he added.

/ This is an attitude that's taken for granted. It says that when the cop perceives a threat to his person it is reasonable if he responds with deadly force.
// The problem is that attitude removes the burden on that same cop to properly analyse the threatening situation. Just because someone has a knife, doesn't mean he wants to stab you.
/// To me -- and again, this situation may have been unavoidable -- a crazed person saying "shoot me now, kill me now," is neither an imminent threat to attack nor an invitation for cops to shoot. That sounds like a mentally disturbed individual who's struggling with something. He's unpredictable, sur ...


A crazed person saying shoot me or kill can be an imminent threat to attack because it shows they do not give a damn about their life so why should they give a damn about anyone elses

Here is a pic of a cop in Colombia who was trying to calm down a crazy guy, who was also saying "kill me I dont care" where do you think the knife ended up, in the cop.

i635.photobucket.com
2014-08-21 09:26:55 AM  
1 vote:
The huffingtonpost video is rather disturbing.  The "knife wielding" man did not appear to be threatening the officers at all.  They just rolled up, got out, and shot him dead.  No talking, just shooting.  That is all kinds of farked up.
2014-08-21 09:25:48 AM  
1 vote:

Gunny Highway: While everyone is sorting out the details of the past (very important stuff), I am wondering how this whole thing ends and what the last changes in the town will be.  At the moment it doesnt seem like there will be much change when this whole thing does settle down and people get back to the normal slog that is life.


Well, hopefully black votership will increase in Ferguson.

Dellwood, which is the suburb just to the north is just as black. However it's a little nicer with fewer apartment residents so they vote more. Dellwood's mayor is African American and he disbanded their police force in favor of using the St. Louis County police. Ferguson has more apartments and rental houses; all with extremely low voting rates. The only people voting are the white homeowners and that's why all the elected officials are white.

I know that before the QT was fenced off there were two ladies registering voters. Not sure where they went as I haven't seen any more media coverage of them.
2014-08-21 09:20:21 AM  
1 vote:
The democrat protestors probably ran out of stuff to steal. This break in the other peoples property destruction and shopping (looting) spree should give AG holder and his taxpayer wasting army of FBI agents and lawyers a chance to drum up his Mississippi Burning moment.
2014-08-21 09:18:03 AM  
1 vote:

alizeran: TeamEd: Dictatorial_Flair: TeamEd: Dictatorial_Flair: GungFu: Whoo..just saw the other one where the dude went shopping without any cash...repeatedly, and when the cops come he politely asks the cops to shoot him. They oblige. Repeatedly. He dead now. He very dead. Shop owner down 2 drinks and a pastry.

Was that in Ferguson as well? Dat's farked up, dawg.

You left out the "he was waving a weapon around and acting crazy" part. If you relentlessly approach cops while brandishing a knife, at any speed, you're almost guaranteed to get shot. Maybe they could have done something besides shooting the guy, but people who do what he did usually end up getting shot.

Video is first the official police account, then amateur video of the event. Not casting judgement, just putting it out there.


Don't really want to watch that today. But I thought this was instructive of cops' attitudes:

"Certainly a Taser is an option that's available to the officers, but Tasers aren't 100 percent," [St. Louis Police Chief Sam] Dotson said. "So you've got an individual with a knife who's moving towards you, not listening to any verbal commands, continues, says, 'shoot me now, kill me now.' Tasers aren't 100 percent. if that Taser misses, that [individual] continues on and hurts an officer."
"In a lethal situation, they used lethal force," he added.

/ This is an attitude that's taken for granted. It says that when the cop perceives a threat to his person it is reasonable if he responds with deadly force.
// The problem is that attitude removes the burden on that same cop to properly analyse the threatening situation. Just because someone has a knife, doesn't mean he wants to stab you.
/// To me -- and again, this situation may have been unavoidable -- a crazed person saying "shoot me now, kill me now," is neither an imminent threat to attack nor an invitation for cops to shoot. That sounds like a mentally disturbed individual who's struggling with something. He's unpredictable, sure, but we pay cops to handle unpredictable situations.
//// Instead of shouting, threatening with their guns, closing distance and ultimately shooting cops should create a perimeter, maintain their distance, talk to the guy and generally be a calming presence while waiting him out.
2014-08-21 09:15:25 AM  
1 vote:

CheatCommando: LazyMedia: Your blog doesn't make you media. Get a job.

So, self-employment is invalid? After all, it is has been said that freedom of the press belongs to those who own the presses, and a blogger owns their own.


You can become legit, but if you just have a wordpress and your friends as readership? You don't get in the press area.

/It's a low bar; I'm not saying you have to be international corporate media. Just have a legit, money-making media outlet, and some sort of credentials. Or be a freelancer with enough clips to get a press pass from the local press club. But don't be some hobbyist whose Twitter feed is read by your mom and her friends, and think that gives you the right to in the press area.
//If you're REALLY serious about being an indy citizen journalist, you wouldn't want to be in the press area anyway. You're probably going to get arrested, but that's kind of the point, isn't it?
2014-08-21 09:14:57 AM  
1 vote:
cdn.memegenerator.net
2014-08-21 08:57:21 AM  
1 vote:

TeamEd: Dictatorial_Flair: TeamEd: Dictatorial_Flair: GungFu: Whoo..just saw the other one where the dude went shopping without any cash...repeatedly, and when the cops come he politely asks the cops to shoot him. They oblige. Repeatedly. He dead now. He very dead. Shop owner down 2 drinks and a pastry.

Was that in Ferguson as well? Dat's farked up, dawg.

You left out the "he was waving a weapon around and acting crazy" part. If you relentlessly approach cops while brandishing a knife, at any speed, you're almost guaranteed to get shot. Maybe they could have done something besides shooting the guy, but people who do what he did usually end up getting shot.


Video is first the official police account, then amateur video of the event. Not casting judgement, just putting it out there.
2014-08-21 08:53:05 AM  
1 vote:

LazyMedia: Your blog doesn't make you media. Get a job.


So, self-employment is invalid? After all, it is has been said that freedom of the press belongs to those who own the presses, and a blogger owns their own.
2014-08-21 08:44:22 AM  
1 vote:

SBinRR: HotWingConspiracy: SBinRR: HotWingConspiracy: LazyMedia: Your blog doesn't make you media. Get a job.

People have made millions of dollars from their blogs.

Who?
Serious question.  No snark.

Look up the top youtube earners.

I'll pass. Not that important to me.  I thought you might have a couple names you could share off the top of your head.


Perez Hilton comes to mind.

I'm not into blogs (especially pop culture ones), but he was just on the Howard Stern Show fingering Benji, so his name is still fresh in my head.
2014-08-21 08:33:14 AM  
1 vote:

Dictatorial_Flair: TeamEd: Dictatorial_Flair: GungFu: Whoo..just saw the other one where the dude went shopping without any cash...repeatedly, and when the cops come he politely asks the cops to shoot him. They oblige. Repeatedly. He dead now. He very dead. Shop owner down 2 drinks and a pastry.

Was that in Ferguson as well? Dat's farked up, dawg.

You left out the "he was waving a weapon around and acting crazy" part. If you relentlessly approach cops while brandishing a knife, at any speed, you're almost guaranteed to get shot. Maybe they could have done something besides shooting the guy, but people who do what he did usually end up getting shot.

... In the USA.
In sane countries cops are trained to de-escalate encounters with mentally disturbed individuals.
/ It is very possible this particular case was not resolvable, but it seems to me that American cops will sooner shoot than attempt to resolve a dangerous situation non-violently -- most probably wouldn't know how anyway.

It's still pretty awful that they killed the guy, and I do wonder why something else wasn't tried before it came down to him going all suicide-by-cop, but the report I read made it sound like they at least made an attempt not to shoot the guy. Kind of. If nothing else, they supposedly let him get dangerously close before blasting the shiat out of him. That's kind of like deescalation, right?


Did they engage the man with their guns trained on him, or ready at their sides?
Did they threaten him with, "or we will shoot you?"
Did they close distance in an aggressive stance?
Did they engage him in a speaking voice, or start at a shouting tone?
These things and more are common cop behaviours that can escalate a situation with a mentally disturbed individual. Someone who previous may have not had a real intention to commit 'suicide by cop,' may see all that from the cops at start to act all 'fark it, go ahead an shoot me.'
/ De-escalation is about being a calming presence, not being a threatening presence and then shooting when he reacts badly.
// This case may have been handled perfectly, who knows.
/// If you approached a nervous horse shouting and acting threatening, then shot it when it got aggressive with you, people wouldn't say "good job, you had no choice," they'd call you an idiot.
2014-08-21 08:32:00 AM  
1 vote:

King Something: Dictatorial_Flair: GungFu: Whoo..just saw the other one where the dude went shopping without any cash...repeatedly, and when the cops come he politely asks the cops to shoot him. They oblige. Repeatedly. He dead now. He very dead. Shop owner down 2 drinks and a pastry.

Was that in Ferguson as well? Dat's farked up, dawg.

You left out the "he was waving a weapon around and acting crazy" part. If you relentlessly approach cops while brandishing a knife, at any speed, you're almost guaranteed to get shot. Maybe they could have done something besides shooting the guy, but people who do what he did usually end up getting shot.

[img2.timeinc.net image 300x400]
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 479x604]

Usually.

/these guys had guns, btw. slightly more lethal than knives, I think


cdn29.elitedaily.com

You mean like "I will farking kill you" Man?

You know, it's not often that someone does something so egregious that both InforWars and Mother Jones agree:

http://www.infowars.com/ferguson-cop-points-gun-at-journalists-im-go in g-to-fing-kill-you/

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2014/08/gun-pointing-cop-ferguson-su sp ended

At least this guy got suspended.
2014-08-21 08:31:42 AM  
1 vote:

LucklessWonder: BlindRaise: What would you call a night with only 6 arrests in Chicago?

What does 6 arrests work out as a per capita rate in Chicago vs. Ferguson?

/Genuinely curious
//Can't check populations at work, Wiki blocked.


2013 Population Estimates per Wiki
Ferguson - 21,111
Chicago - 2,718,782

So just under 773 arrests to be comparable.
2014-08-21 08:18:32 AM  
1 vote:
Two updates that are interesting:

1) More national media is claiming that sources close to the investigation have told them Wilson suffered a severe facial injury and needed to go to the hospital for his injuries. If we assume that the video of him pacing at the scene is actually of him and that these sources are true I think we'll be getting into a major argument of the definition of "severe" (to be that comfortable to show no distress would likely make it a hairline fracture I would have to think.)

2) Remember the "Josie" phone call that claimed to be from Wilson's friend and gave his side of the story? I thought the Facebook images that have been floating around telling a similar story were likely made by someone hoping to spread Josie's account with a bit more authority but which had some glaring inaccuracies not in Josie's story (like that Brown was charging and was only two or three feet from Wilson when he put the final bullet in his head despite no GPR) that betrayed it wasn't true. Turns out the media not only confirmed that the Facebook account was fake (well, to be fair, they confirmed that it wasn't set up until after Wilson's name was announced publicly; it's technically possible his Weeners to his name being announced was to delete everything before the day of the announcement to prevent controversy but then decided to write up a giant post on his side of the story despite his department purposely refusing to give any firm details of Wilson's version of events until the investigation is complete but it would be really, really, stupid.) However, the more interesting thing is that the Josie call happened several days after the Facebook post; despite CNN calling the Facebook post a fake they claimed to have confirmed with anonymous sources close to the investigation that Josie's version is basically Wilson's version of events, which has interesting implications (though very different ones if they both turn out to be true or false.)
2014-08-21 08:18:32 AM  
1 vote:

Maybe the cops are holding on to the out of state visitors.  Making them guests of the city longer.


GungFu

Whoo..just saw the other one where the dude went shopping without any cash...repeatedly, and when the cops come he politely asks the cops to shoot him. They oblige. Repeatedly. He dead now. He very dead. Shop owner down 2 drinks and a pastry.

Was that in Ferguson as well? Dat's farked up, dawg.


That was St. Louis City. The guy had a knife and rushed the cops. Not a "gentle giant" or "trade school aspirant". Just a guy trying to steal a little food to feed himself.

St. Louis City responded with "transparency" and "openness" immediately. They had plenty of witnesses to collaborate their side of the incident. Even though Google reviews calls the store owner/cook a "jerk", he made great sandwiches. Probably didn't deserve to get stabbed too much.
2014-08-21 08:16:17 AM  
1 vote:

HotWingConspiracy: LazyMedia: Your blog doesn't make you media. Get a job.

People have made millions of dollars from their blogs.


Who?
Serious question.  No snark.
2014-08-21 08:15:32 AM  
1 vote:

Dictatorial_Flair: GungFu: Whoo..just saw the other one where the dude went shopping without any cash...repeatedly, and when the cops come he politely asks the cops to shoot him. They oblige. Repeatedly. He dead now. He very dead. Shop owner down 2 drinks and a pastry.

Was that in Ferguson as well? Dat's farked up, dawg.

You left out the "he was waving a weapon around and acting crazy" part. If you relentlessly approach cops while brandishing a knife, at any speed, you're almost guaranteed to get shot. Maybe they could have done something besides shooting the guy, but people who do what he did usually end up getting shot.


... In the USA.
In sane countries cops are trained to de-escalate encounters with mentally disturbed individuals.
/ It is very possible this particular case was not resolvable, but it seems to me that American cops will sooner shoot than attempt to resolve a dangerous situation non-violently -- most probably wouldn't know how anyway.
2014-08-21 08:11:05 AM  
1 vote:
Apparently Wisconsin had learned its lesson about lack of police oversight.  Read Michael Bell's story about about the death of his son and how he fought to enact a law requiring outside investigations of police-caused fatalities.  It would be nice if other states would pass similar legislation.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/08/what-i-did-after-poli ce -killed-my-son-110038.html?ml=po_r#.U_XgLKPQqgU
2014-08-21 08:10:53 AM  
1 vote:
"The police confiscated no handguns after removing three the night before."

Yes, three guns- all very new in appearance, all the same make and model.
Kinda funny... looking.

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930/videos/599 05 403
2014-08-21 07:53:54 AM  
1 vote:
Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiat. I bet that a good night in Boston or any city would result in only six arrests.
2014-08-21 07:52:54 AM  
1 vote:
Twitter was reporting that one of the CNN guys was snitching out Indy media to the cops so they would be removed and arrested from the Media area.
2014-08-21 07:50:53 AM  
1 vote:
blog.lawyer.com
 
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