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(Politico)   You know it's bad when a "good night" in Ferguson results in only 6 arrests. Progress, people   (politico.com) divider line 354
    More: Followup  
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1758 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2014 at 7:44 AM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-21 08:53:05 AM  

LazyMedia: Your blog doesn't make you media. Get a job.


So, self-employment is invalid? After all, it is has been said that freedom of the press belongs to those who own the presses, and a blogger owns their own.
 
2014-08-21 08:57:21 AM  

TeamEd: Dictatorial_Flair: TeamEd: Dictatorial_Flair: GungFu: Whoo..just saw the other one where the dude went shopping without any cash...repeatedly, and when the cops come he politely asks the cops to shoot him. They oblige. Repeatedly. He dead now. He very dead. Shop owner down 2 drinks and a pastry.

Was that in Ferguson as well? Dat's farked up, dawg.

You left out the "he was waving a weapon around and acting crazy" part. If you relentlessly approach cops while brandishing a knife, at any speed, you're almost guaranteed to get shot. Maybe they could have done something besides shooting the guy, but people who do what he did usually end up getting shot.


Video is first the official police account, then amateur video of the event. Not casting judgement, just putting it out there.
 
2014-08-21 09:05:03 AM  

MugzyBrown: skinink: Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiat. I bet that a good night in Boston or any city would result in only six arrests.


It's probably a good night in Philly if there are only 6 shootings


I'll have you know we only had 2 last night! PROGRESS!!!
 
2014-08-21 09:05:46 AM  

b0rg9: Is that a Mexican poncho or is that a Sears poncho?


Don't you know, you could make more money as a butcher.
 
2014-08-21 09:06:20 AM  

Grungehamster: Two updates that are interesting:

1) More national media is claiming that sources close to the investigation have told them Wilson suffered a severe facial injury and needed to go to the hospital for his injuries. If we assume that the video of him pacing at the scene is actually of him and that these sources are true I think we'll be getting into a major argument of the definition of "severe" (to be that comfortable to show no distress would likely make it a hairline fracture I would have to think.)

2) Remember the "Josie" phone call that claimed to be from Wilson's friend and gave his side of the story? I thought the Facebook images that have been floating around telling a similar story were likely made by someone hoping to spread Josie's account with a bit more authority but which had some glaring inaccuracies not in Josie's story (like that Brown was charging and was only two or three feet from Wilson when he put the final bullet in his head despite no GPR) that betrayed it wasn't true. Turns out the media not only confirmed that the Facebook account was fake (well, to be fair, they confirmed that it wasn't set up until after Wilson's name was announced publicly; it's technically possible his Weeners to his name being announced was to delete everything before the day of the announcement to prevent controversy but then decided to write up a giant post on his side of the story despite his department purposely refusing to give any firm details of Wilson's version of events until the investigation is complete but it would be really, really, stupid.) However, the more interesting thing is that the Josie call happened several days after the Facebook post; despite CNN calling the Facebook post a fake they claimed to have confirmed with anonymous sources close to the investigation that Josie's version is basically Wilson's version of events, which has interesting implications (though very different ones if they both turn out to be true or false.)


1) do you know of a substance called adrenaline?

2) tin foil hat warning please.
 
2014-08-21 09:07:27 AM  

King Something: Dictatorial_Flair: GungFu: Whoo..just saw the other one where the dude went shopping without any cash...repeatedly, and when the cops come he politely asks the cops to shoot him. They oblige. Repeatedly. He dead now. He very dead. Shop owner down 2 drinks and a pastry.

Was that in Ferguson as well? Dat's farked up, dawg.

You left out the "he was waving a weapon around and acting crazy" part. If you relentlessly approach cops while brandishing a knife, at any speed, you're almost guaranteed to get shot. Maybe they could have done something besides shooting the guy, but people who do what he did usually end up getting shot.

[img2.timeinc.net image 300x400]
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 479x604]

Usually.

/these guys had guns, btw. slightly more lethal than knives, I think


Not every "guy with a gun" scenario is the same.

Holmes was arrested by his car without a weapon at ready.

Loughner was attacked and subdued by bystanders when he dropped his magazine while reloading

Tensions are still high enough, you don't need to worsen things by perpetuating cheap disingenuous soundbites.
 
2014-08-21 09:08:51 AM  

MyRandomName: Grungehamster: Two updates that are interesting:

1) More national media is claiming that sources close to the investigation have told them Wilson suffered a severe facial injury and needed to go to the hospital for his injuries. If we assume that the video of him pacing at the scene is actually of him and that these sources are true I think we'll be getting into a major argument of the definition of "severe" (to be that comfortable to show no distress would likely make it a hairline fracture I would have to think.)

2) Remember the "Josie" phone call that claimed to be from Wilson's friend and gave his side of the story? I thought the Facebook images that have been floating around telling a similar story were likely made by someone hoping to spread Josie's account with a bit more authority but which had some glaring inaccuracies not in Josie's story (like that Brown was charging and was only two or three feet from Wilson when he put the final bullet in his head despite no GPR) that betrayed it wasn't true. Turns out the media not only confirmed that the Facebook account was fake (well, to be fair, they confirmed that it wasn't set up until after Wilson's name was announced publicly; it's technically possible his Weeners to his name being announced was to delete everything before the day of the announcement to prevent controversy but then decided to write up a giant post on his side of the story despite his department purposely refusing to give any firm details of Wilson's version of events until the investigation is complete but it would be really, really, stupid.) However, the more interesting thing is that the Josie call happened several days after the Facebook post; despite CNN calling the Facebook post a fake they claimed to have confirmed with anonymous sources close to the investigation that Josie's version is basically Wilson's version of events, which has interesting implications (though very different ones if they both turn out to be true or false.)

1) do you know of a substance called adrenaline?

2) tin foil hat warning please.


Lol. Yeah adrenaline makes your dominant eye that is shattered have perfect aim.
 
2014-08-21 09:09:40 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: LazyMedia: Your blog doesn't make you media. Get a job.

People have made millions of dollars from their blogs.


Yeah, and those people ARE media, and have press passes. The people gettting kicked out of the media pool for not having credentials are not the ones with legit blogs.
 
2014-08-21 09:10:42 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: MyRandomName: Grungehamster: Two updates that are interesting:

1) More national media is claiming that sources close to the investigation have told them Wilson suffered a severe facial injury and needed to go to the hospital for his injuries. If we assume that the video of him pacing at the scene is actually of him and that these sources are true I think we'll be getting into a major argument of the definition of "severe" (to be that comfortable to show no distress would likely make it a hairline fracture I would have to think.)

2) Remember the "Josie" phone call that claimed to be from Wilson's friend and gave his side of the story? I thought the Facebook images that have been floating around telling a similar story were likely made by someone hoping to spread Josie's account with a bit more authority but which had some glaring inaccuracies not in Josie's story (like that Brown was charging and was only two or three feet from Wilson when he put the final bullet in his head despite no GPR) that betrayed it wasn't true. Turns out the media not only confirmed that the Facebook account was fake (well, to be fair, they confirmed that it wasn't set up until after Wilson's name was announced publicly; it's technically possible his Weeners to his name being announced was to delete everything before the day of the announcement to prevent controversy but then decided to write up a giant post on his side of the story despite his department purposely refusing to give any firm details of Wilson's version of events until the investigation is complete but it would be really, really, stupid.) However, the more interesting thing is that the Josie call happened several days after the Facebook post; despite CNN calling the Facebook post a fake they claimed to have confirmed with anonymous sources close to the investigation that Josie's version is basically Wilson's version of events, which has interesting implications (though very different ones if they both turn out to be true or false.)

1) do you know of a substance called adrenaline?

2) tin foil hat warning please.

Lol. Yeah adrenaline makes your dominant eye that is shattered have perfect aim.


The autopsy report contradicts your perfect aim theory. Do you ever tire of being ignorant?
 
2014-08-21 09:10:54 AM  

Grungehamster: Elegy: Grungehamster:
1) If we assume that the video of him pacing at the scene is actually of him and that these sources are true I think we'll be getting into a major argument of the definition of "severe" (to be that comfortable to show no distress would likely make it a hairline fracture I would have to think.)

Oh hai guys.

[i2.cdn.turner.com image 640x360]

You miss me?

/notthisshiatagain.jpg

And that's a major reason that I've tried to hedge about the actual content of the witness video. A lot of people looked at the images of Zimmerman at the police station and said that he didn't have any injuries despite his claims and simply put the camera quality isn't good enough in either case to claim there was or wasn't any visible swelling or damage (hell, it's not even good enough to tell if that's really Wilson or another guy on the force who has the same haircut and the same build as his released photos +10-20 lbs.) However, if it is him he certainly doesn't seem to be carrying himself like someone with severe damage to his face and/or head. Then again, IANAD.


Apparently it wasn't Wilson; in the followup to last Friday's press conference, the Ferguson PD chief specifically said that he had taken a lot of questions about the other officers ine videos, and Darren Wilson was not the officer in those videos.
 
2014-08-21 09:14:57 AM  
cdn.memegenerator.net
 
2014-08-21 09:15:25 AM  

CheatCommando: LazyMedia: Your blog doesn't make you media. Get a job.

So, self-employment is invalid? After all, it is has been said that freedom of the press belongs to those who own the presses, and a blogger owns their own.


You can become legit, but if you just have a wordpress and your friends as readership? You don't get in the press area.

/It's a low bar; I'm not saying you have to be international corporate media. Just have a legit, money-making media outlet, and some sort of credentials. Or be a freelancer with enough clips to get a press pass from the local press club. But don't be some hobbyist whose Twitter feed is read by your mom and her friends, and think that gives you the right to in the press area.
//If you're REALLY serious about being an indy citizen journalist, you wouldn't want to be in the press area anyway. You're probably going to get arrested, but that's kind of the point, isn't it?
 
2014-08-21 09:15:52 AM  
Did anyone see the video of the lone white woman who showed up last night with a sign supporting the officer? The police got her out of there pretty quickly: but not before she got yelled at.
 
2014-08-21 09:16:51 AM  

StanleyPuff: SBinRR: HotWingConspiracy: SBinRR: HotWingConspiracy: LazyMedia: Your blog doesn't make you media. Get a job.

People have made millions of dollars from their blogs.

Who?
Serious question.  No snark.

Look up the top youtube earners.

I'll pass. Not that important to me.  I thought you might have a couple names you could share off the top of your head.

Perez Hilton comes to mind.

I'm not into blogs (especially pop culture ones), but he was just on the Howard Stern Show fingering Benji, so his name is still fresh in my head.


The 80'S movie dog?
 
2014-08-21 09:17:15 AM  

MyRandomName: cameroncrazy1984: MyRandomName: Grungehamster: Two updates that are interesting:

1) More national media is claiming that sources close to the investigation have told them Wilson suffered a severe facial injury and needed to go to the hospital for his injuries. If we assume that the video of him pacing at the scene is actually of him and that these sources are true I think we'll be getting into a major argument of the definition of "severe" (to be that comfortable to show no distress would likely make it a hairline fracture I would have to think.)

2) Remember the "Josie" phone call that claimed to be from Wilson's friend and gave his side of the story? I thought the Facebook images that have been floating around telling a similar story were likely made by someone hoping to spread Josie's account with a bit more authority but which had some glaring inaccuracies not in Josie's story (like that Brown was charging and was only two or three feet from Wilson when he put the final bullet in his head despite no GPR) that betrayed it wasn't true. Turns out the media not only confirmed that the Facebook account was fake (well, to be fair, they confirmed that it wasn't set up until after Wilson's name was announced publicly; it's technically possible his Weeners to his name being announced was to delete everything before the day of the announcement to prevent controversy but then decided to write up a giant post on his side of the story despite his department purposely refusing to give any firm details of Wilson's version of events until the investigation is complete but it would be really, really, stupid.) However, the more interesting thing is that the Josie call happened several days after the Facebook post; despite CNN calling the Facebook post a fake they claimed to have confirmed with anonymous sources close to the investigation that Josie's version is basically Wilson's version of events, which has interesting implications (though very different ones if they both turn ...


We don't know how many shots the officer fired. But if he was 6 for 6 in an extremely stressful situation, then give him a medal for marksmanship.
 
2014-08-21 09:18:03 AM  

alizeran: TeamEd: Dictatorial_Flair: TeamEd: Dictatorial_Flair: GungFu: Whoo..just saw the other one where the dude went shopping without any cash...repeatedly, and when the cops come he politely asks the cops to shoot him. They oblige. Repeatedly. He dead now. He very dead. Shop owner down 2 drinks and a pastry.

Was that in Ferguson as well? Dat's farked up, dawg.

You left out the "he was waving a weapon around and acting crazy" part. If you relentlessly approach cops while brandishing a knife, at any speed, you're almost guaranteed to get shot. Maybe they could have done something besides shooting the guy, but people who do what he did usually end up getting shot.

Video is first the official police account, then amateur video of the event. Not casting judgement, just putting it out there.


Don't really want to watch that today. But I thought this was instructive of cops' attitudes:

"Certainly a Taser is an option that's available to the officers, but Tasers aren't 100 percent," [St. Louis Police Chief Sam] Dotson said. "So you've got an individual with a knife who's moving towards you, not listening to any verbal commands, continues, says, 'shoot me now, kill me now.' Tasers aren't 100 percent. if that Taser misses, that [individual] continues on and hurts an officer."
"In a lethal situation, they used lethal force," he added.

/ This is an attitude that's taken for granted. It says that when the cop perceives a threat to his person it is reasonable if he responds with deadly force.
// The problem is that attitude removes the burden on that same cop to properly analyse the threatening situation. Just because someone has a knife, doesn't mean he wants to stab you.
/// To me -- and again, this situation may have been unavoidable -- a crazed person saying "shoot me now, kill me now," is neither an imminent threat to attack nor an invitation for cops to shoot. That sounds like a mentally disturbed individual who's struggling with something. He's unpredictable, sure, but we pay cops to handle unpredictable situations.
//// Instead of shouting, threatening with their guns, closing distance and ultimately shooting cops should create a perimeter, maintain their distance, talk to the guy and generally be a calming presence while waiting him out.
 
2014-08-21 09:18:22 AM  

King Something: Dictatorial_Flair: GungFu: Whoo..just saw the other one where the dude went shopping without any cash...repeatedly, and when the cops come he politely asks the cops to shoot him. They oblige. Repeatedly. He dead now. He very dead. Shop owner down 2 drinks and a pastry.

Was that in Ferguson as well? Dat's farked up, dawg.

You left out the "he was waving a weapon around and acting crazy" part. If you relentlessly approach cops while brandishing a knife, at any speed, you're almost guaranteed to get shot. Maybe they could have done something besides shooting the guy, but people who do what he did usually end up getting shot.

[img2.timeinc.net image 300x400]
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 479x604]

Usually.

/these guys had guns, btw. slightly more lethal than knives, I think


And it was the community members who took down laughner....not police.

Hey hey, ho ho, solidarity has got to go.
 
2014-08-21 09:19:40 AM  
While everyone is sorting out the details of the past (very important stuff), I am wondering how this whole thing ends and what the last changes in the town will be.  At the moment it doesnt seem like there will be much change when this whole thing does settle down and people get back to the normal slog that is life.
 
2014-08-21 09:20:21 AM  
The democrat protestors probably ran out of stuff to steal. This break in the other peoples property destruction and shopping (looting) spree should give AG holder and his taxpayer wasting army of FBI agents and lawyers a chance to drum up his Mississippi Burning moment.
 
2014-08-21 09:21:49 AM  

TeamEd: alizeran: TeamEd: Dictatorial_Flair: TeamEd: Dictatorial_Flair: GungFu: Whoo..just saw the other one where the dude went shopping without any cash...repeatedly, and when the cops come he politely asks the cops to shoot him. They oblige. Repeatedly. He dead now. He very dead. Shop owner down 2 drinks and a pastry.

Was that in Ferguson as well? Dat's farked up, dawg.

You left out the "he was waving a weapon around and acting crazy" part. If you relentlessly approach cops while brandishing a knife, at any speed, you're almost guaranteed to get shot. Maybe they could have done something besides shooting the guy, but people who do what he did usually end up getting shot.

Video is first the official police account, then amateur video of the event. Not casting judgement, just putting it out there.

Don't really want to watch that today. But I thought this was instructive of cops' attitudes:

"Certainly a Taser is an option that's available to the officers, but Tasers aren't 100 percent," [St. Louis Police Chief Sam] Dotson said. "So you've got an individual with a knife who's moving towards you, not listening to any verbal commands, continues, says, 'shoot me now, kill me now.' Tasers aren't 100 percent. if that Taser misses, that [individual] continues on and hurts an officer."
"In a lethal situation, they used lethal force," he added.

/ This is an attitude that's taken for granted. It says that when the cop perceives a threat to his person it is reasonable if he responds with deadly force.
// The problem is that attitude removes the burden on that same cop to properly analyse the threatening situation. Just because someone has a knife, doesn't mean he wants to stab you.
/// To me -- and again, this situation may have been unavoidable -- a crazed person saying "shoot me now, kill me now," is neither an imminent threat to attack nor an invitation for cops to shoot. That sounds like a mentally disturbed individual who's struggling with something. He's unpredictable, sure, but we pay cops to handle unpredictable situations.
//// Instead of shouting, threatening with their guns, closing distance and ultimately shooting cops should create a perimeter, maintain their distance, talk to the guy and generally be a calming presence while waiting him out.


I bet you think prisons are to harsh also? To many people in America want to coddle criminals. Shot the guy and be done with it.
 
2014-08-21 09:21:49 AM  

Grungehamster: Two updates that are interesting:

1) More national media is claiming that sources close to the investigation have told them Wilson suffered a severe facial injury and needed to go to the hospital for his injuries. If we assume that the video of him pacing at the scene is actually of him and that these sources are true I think we'll be getting into a major argument of the definition of "severe" (to be that comfortable to show no distress would likely make it a hairline fracture I would have to think.)

2) Remember the "Josie" phone call that claimed to be from Wilson's friend and gave his side of the story? I thought the Facebook images that have been floating around telling a similar story were likely made by someone hoping to spread Josie's account with a bit more authority but which had some glaring inaccuracies not in Josie's story (like that Brown was charging and was only two or three feet from Wilson when he put the final bullet in his head despite no GPR) that betrayed it wasn't true. Turns out the media not only confirmed that the Facebook account was fake (well, to be fair, they confirmed that it wasn't set up until after Wilson's name was announced publicly; it's technically possible his Weeners to his name being announced was to delete everything before the day of the announcement to prevent controversy but then decided to write up a giant post on his side of the story despite his department purposely refusing to give any firm details of Wilson's version of events until the investigation is complete but it would be really, really, stupid.) However, the more interesting thing is that the Josie call happened several days after the Facebook post; despite CNN calling the Facebook post a fake they claimed to have confirmed with anonymous sources close to the investigation that Josie's version is basically Wilson's version of events, which has interesting implications (though very different ones if they both turn out to be true or false.)


So to summarize, the only people we have who are giving Wilson's version of the encounter are:

1) Someone at the police department, who is likely friends with Wilson
2) Wilson

The way we keep hearing the narrative, it's as if there were a dozen or so different people backing him up, and they were all eyewitnesses. So far we have what amounts to anonymous callers who are telling the story second (or third or fourth) hand. And they're reporting this with a straight face?
 
2014-08-21 09:22:34 AM  

Land_of_the_Magic_Dragon: TeamEd: alizeran: TeamEd: Dictatorial_Flair: TeamEd: Dictatorial_Flair: GungFu: Whoo..just saw the other one where the dude went shopping without any cash...repeatedly, and when the cops come he politely asks the cops to shoot him. They oblige. Repeatedly. He dead now. He very dead. Shop owner down 2 drinks and a pastry.

Was that in Ferguson as well? Dat's farked up, dawg.

You left out the "he was waving a weapon around and acting crazy" part. If you relentlessly approach cops while brandishing a knife, at any speed, you're almost guaranteed to get shot. Maybe they could have done something besides shooting the guy, but people who do what he did usually end up getting shot.

Video is first the official police account, then amateur video of the event. Not casting judgement, just putting it out there.

Don't really want to watch that today. But I thought this was instructive of cops' attitudes:

"Certainly a Taser is an option that's available to the officers, but Tasers aren't 100 percent," [St. Louis Police Chief Sam] Dotson said. "So you've got an individual with a knife who's moving towards you, not listening to any verbal commands, continues, says, 'shoot me now, kill me now.' Tasers aren't 100 percent. if that Taser misses, that [individual] continues on and hurts an officer."
"In a lethal situation, they used lethal force," he added.

/ This is an attitude that's taken for granted. It says that when the cop perceives a threat to his person it is reasonable if he responds with deadly force.
// The problem is that attitude removes the burden on that same cop to properly analyse the threatening situation. Just because someone has a knife, doesn't mean he wants to stab you.
/// To me -- and again, this situation may have been unavoidable -- a crazed person saying "shoot me now, kill me now," is neither an imminent threat to attack nor an invitation for cops to shoot. That sounds like a mentally disturbed individual who's struggling with something. He's unpredictable, sure, but we pay cops to handle unpredictable situations.
//// Instead of shouting, threatening with their guns, closing distance and ultimately shooting cops should create a perimeter, maintain their distance, talk to the guy and generally be a calming presence while waiting him out.

I bet you think prisons are to harsh also? To many people in America want to coddle criminals. Shot the guy and be done with it.


Shoot the guy and be done with it.
 
2014-08-21 09:25:07 AM  

LazyMedia: HotWingConspiracy: LazyMedia: Your blog doesn't make you media. Get a job.

People have made millions of dollars from their blogs.

Yeah, and those people ARE media, and have press passes. The people gettting kicked out of the media pool for not having credentials are not the ones with legit blogs.


Define "legit"
 
2014-08-21 09:25:48 AM  

Gunny Highway: While everyone is sorting out the details of the past (very important stuff), I am wondering how this whole thing ends and what the last changes in the town will be.  At the moment it doesnt seem like there will be much change when this whole thing does settle down and people get back to the normal slog that is life.


Well, hopefully black votership will increase in Ferguson.

Dellwood, which is the suburb just to the north is just as black. However it's a little nicer with fewer apartment residents so they vote more. Dellwood's mayor is African American and he disbanded their police force in favor of using the St. Louis County police. Ferguson has more apartments and rental houses; all with extremely low voting rates. The only people voting are the white homeowners and that's why all the elected officials are white.

I know that before the QT was fenced off there were two ladies registering voters. Not sure where they went as I haven't seen any more media coverage of them.
 
2014-08-21 09:25:52 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: LazyMedia: Your blog doesn't make you media. Get a job.

People have made millions of dollars from their blogs.


Odds are you / they arnt one of them.
 
2014-08-21 09:26:48 AM  

Launch Code: The democrat protestors probably ran out of stuff to steal. This break in the other peoples property destruction and shopping (looting) spree should give AG holder and his taxpayer wasting army of FBI agents and lawyers a chance to drum up his Mississippi Burning moment.


Wow. All that in two sentences.
 
2014-08-21 09:26:55 AM  
The huffingtonpost video is rather disturbing.  The "knife wielding" man did not appear to be threatening the officers at all.  They just rolled up, got out, and shot him dead.  No talking, just shooting.  That is all kinds of farked up.
 
2014-08-21 09:27:47 AM  

Skraeling: HotWingConspiracy: LazyMedia: Your blog doesn't make you media. Get a job.

People have made millions of dollars from their blogs.

Odds are you / they arnt one of them.


Which has nothing to do with anything.
 
2014-08-21 09:28:10 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: LazyMedia: HotWingConspiracy: LazyMedia: Your blog doesn't make you media. Get a job.

People have made millions of dollars from their blogs.

Yeah, and those people ARE media, and have press passes. The people gettting kicked out of the media pool for not having credentials are not the ones with legit blogs.

Define "legit"


A blog with enough revenue to warrant having a lawyer.
 
2014-08-21 09:29:11 AM  

TeamEd: alizeran: TeamEd: Dictatorial_Flair: TeamEd: Dictatorial_Flair: GungFu: Whoo..just saw the other one where the dude went shopping without any cash...repeatedly, and when the cops come he politely asks the cops to shoot him. They oblige. Repeatedly. He dead now. He very dead. Shop owner down 2 drinks and a pastry.

Was that in Ferguson as well? Dat's farked up, dawg.

You left out the "he was waving a weapon around and acting crazy" part. If you relentlessly approach cops while brandishing a knife, at any speed, you're almost guaranteed to get shot. Maybe they could have done something besides shooting the guy, but people who do what he did usually end up getting shot.

Video is first the official police account, then amateur video of the event. Not casting judgement, just putting it out there.

Don't really want to watch that today. But I thought this was instructive of cops' attitudes:

"Certainly a Taser is an option that's available to the officers, but Tasers aren't 100 percent," [St. Louis Police Chief Sam] Dotson said. "So you've got an individual with a knife who's moving towards you, not listening to any verbal commands, continues, says, 'shoot me now, kill me now.' Tasers aren't 100 percent. if that Taser misses, that [individual] continues on and hurts an officer."
"In a lethal situation, they used lethal force," he added.

/ This is an attitude that's taken for granted. It says that when the cop perceives a threat to his person it is reasonable if he responds with deadly force.
// The problem is that attitude removes the burden on that same cop to properly analyse the threatening situation. Just because someone has a knife, doesn't mean he wants to stab you.
/// To me -- and again, this situation may have been unavoidable -- a crazed person saying "shoot me now, kill me now," is neither an imminent threat to attack nor an invitation for cops to shoot. That sounds like a mentally disturbed individual who's struggling with something. He's unpredictable, sur ...


A crazed person saying shoot me or kill can be an imminent threat to attack because it shows they do not give a damn about their life so why should they give a damn about anyone elses

Here is a pic of a cop in Colombia who was trying to calm down a crazy guy, who was also saying "kill me I dont care" where do you think the knife ended up, in the cop.

i635.photobucket.com
 
2014-08-21 09:30:16 AM  

Land_of_the_Magic_Dragon: / This is an attitude that's taken for granted. It says that when the cop perceives a threat to his person it is reasonable if he responds with deadly force.
// The problem is that attitude removes the burden on that same cop to properly analyse the threatening situation. Just because someone has a knife, doesn't mean he wants to stab you.
/// To me -- and again, this situation may have been unavoidable -- a crazed person saying "shoot me now, kill me now," is neither an imminent threat to attack nor an invitation for cops to shoot. That sounds like a mentally disturbed individual who's struggling with something. He's unpredictable, sure, but we pay cops to handle unpredictable situations.
//// Instead of shouting, threatening with their guns, closing distance and ultimately shooting cops should create a perimeter, maintain their distance, talk to the guy and generally be a calming presence while waiting him out.


I bet you think prisons are to harsh also? To many people in America want to coddle criminals. Shot the guy and be done with it.


There are a lot of reasons why a guy can be so disturbed that he's acting crazed in public with a knife in hand. Mental illness can happen to you or me or a family member. I'm white, so I'm less likely to get shot, but I can't say I'm immune from a public breakdown some time in my future.
/ If that guy with the knife someone you knew or were close to, you wouldn't want that.
// The USA prison system is completely counter productive. I'm relatively unsympathetic to the prisoners, but the American system absolutely does not reduce crime -- and that should be the goal of any prison system.
 
2014-08-21 09:32:19 AM  

TeamEd: // The USA prison system is completely counter productive. I'm relatively unsympathetic to the prisoners, but the American system absolutely does not reduce crime -- and that should be the goal of any prison system.


I mostly agree. But stats like this don't help our argument.
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-08-21 09:32:21 AM  
In attempt to answer the question who is a journalist and who is not, well, here is something to think about: There are many professions where you need some kind of formal license by some kind of government entity, be it on the federal, state or local level. To be a doctor or lawyer you need a license and be recognized by your state. To do hair and nails you need some kind of state license. To be a tattoo artist you need a license. To drive a taxi in many metro areas you need to get a local business license. In some places to be a fast food worker you need a "food handler's card," as some local governments in Southern California require. The one thing you do not need any formal license to do is being a journalist and/or owning a press (whether that press is television, print or blog), because a free press is guaranteed in our Constitution.
 
2014-08-21 09:34:47 AM  

BlindRaise: What would you call a night with only 6 arrests in Chicago?


In a metropolis of more than 2.5 million people I'd call it surprising, regardless of where in the world you are.
 
2014-08-21 09:36:12 AM  

theflatline: A crazed person saying shoot me or kill can be an imminent threat to attack because it shows they do not give a damn about their life so why should they give a damn about anyone elses

Here is a pic of a cop in Colombia who was trying to calm down a crazy guy, who was also saying "kill me I dont care" where do you think the knife ended up, in the cop.


And that looks like a good example of why cops need to be trained to properly assess the threat posed by any individual. Perhaps they did everything right in the recent St. Louis situation, who knows? There's video up thread, but I'm not particularly inclined to watch it this morning.
 
2014-08-21 09:36:56 AM  

Dictatorial_Flair: TeamEd: Did they engage the man with their guns trained on him, or ready at their sides?
Did they threaten him with, "or we will shoot you?"
Did they close distance in an aggressive stance?
Did they engage him in a speaking voice, or start at a shouting tone?
These things and more are common cop behaviours that can escalate a situation with a mentally disturbed individual. Someone who previous may have not had a real intention to commit 'suicide by cop,' may see all that from the cops at start to act all 'fark it, go ahead an shoot me.'
/ De-escalation is about being a calming presence, not being a threatening presence and then shooting when he reacts badly.
// This case may have been handled perfectly, who knows.
/// If you approached a nervous horse shouting and acting threatening, then shot it when it got aggressive with you, people wouldn't say "good job, you had no choice," they'd call you an idiot.

I have no idea. Considering what I've seen from cops in the area, I suspect that deescalation isn't exactly a priority around there.


You could have left your comments at "I have no idea".  Reading your shiat its apparent that you have no clue about these issues.  If you think its so easy to make perfect choices, go apply to become a cop.  Show us how it should be done.
 
2014-08-21 09:37:49 AM  

JulieAzel626: In attempt to answer the question who is a journalist and who is not, well, here is something to think about: There are many professions where you need some kind of formal license by some kind of government entity, be it on the federal, state or local level. To be a doctor or lawyer you need a license and be recognized by your state. To do hair and nails you need some kind of state license. To be a tattoo artist you need a license. To drive a taxi in many metro areas you need to get a local business license. In some places to be a fast food worker you need a "food handler's card," as some local governments in Southern California require. The one thing you do not need any formal license to do is being a journalist and/or owning a press (whether that press is television, print or blog), because a free press is guaranteed in our Constitution.


Reasonable restrictions.

There should at least be a background check and a 10 day waiting period to be a journalist.
And no journalisting on school grounds or a government building and your film has to be in a separate compartment than the camera while travelling....
 
2014-08-21 09:39:03 AM  

stovepipe: The huffingtonpost video is rather disturbing.  The "knife wielding" man did not appear to be threatening the officers at all.  They just rolled up, got out, and shot him dead.  No talking, just shooting.  That is all kinds of farked up.


And if you believe thats what actually happened, then you are an idiot.  Nobody is even questioning this shooting because it was legitimate and appropriate use of force.
 
2014-08-21 09:39:04 AM  

LazyMedia: If you don't have a press pass, you're not "indy media," you're a tourist. Your blog doesn't make you media. Get a job.


I'm not so sure.  A whole lot of timely reporting is coming out of schmucks with cameras.  The teargassing of various media groups, that chucklehead cop threatening to kill a kid leap to mind.  CNN didn't bring you that stuff.  Bloggers did.
 
2014-08-21 09:40:09 AM  

Litterbox: stovepipe: The huffingtonpost video is rather disturbing.  The "knife wielding" man did not appear to be threatening the officers at all.  They just rolled up, got out, and shot him dead.  No talking, just shooting.  That is all kinds of farked up.

And if you believe thats what actually happened, then you are an idiot.  Nobody is even questioning this shooting because it was legitimate and appropriate use of force.


In before he was paying for the cigars he was whittling a block of wood for a merit badge
 
2014-08-21 09:41:17 AM  
So now that we know the cop got a skull fracture, only one question remains:  Who should I loot and throw molotov cocktails at?
 
2014-08-21 09:41:33 AM  

TeamEd: theflatline: A crazed person saying shoot me or kill can be an imminent threat to attack because it shows they do not give a damn about their life so why should they give a damn about anyone elses

Here is a pic of a cop in Colombia who was trying to calm down a crazy guy, who was also saying "kill me I dont care" where do you think the knife ended up, in the cop.

And that looks like a good example of why cops need to be trained to properly assess the threat posed by any individual. Perhaps they did everything right in the recent St. Louis situation, who knows? There's video up thread, but I'm not particularly inclined to watch it this morning.


WTF do you know about police training?  Ive been a cop over 20 years and when facing someone with a weapon, you dont try to "properly assess" someone.  If they are a risk to themselves or others, you deal with it.  If they come at you with the knife, you shoot to stop them.  Instead of monday morning quarterbacking, why dont you apply at your local police department so that we can benefit from your vast tactical experience.
 
2014-08-21 09:42:34 AM  

cchris_39: So now that we know the cop got a skull fracture, only one question remains:  Who should I loot and throw molotov cocktails at?


Rich people, and Hillary Clinton.
 
2014-08-21 09:42:57 AM  

Dansker: BlindRaise: What would you call a night with only 6 arrests in Chicago?

In a metropolis of more than 2.5 million people I'd call it surprising, regardless of where in the world you are.


Which is about the total population of the greater stl area actually
 
2014-08-21 09:44:23 AM  

Litterbox: TeamEd: theflatline: A crazed person saying shoot me or kill can be an imminent threat to attack because it shows they do not give a damn about their life so why should they give a damn about anyone elses

Here is a pic of a cop in Colombia who was trying to calm down a crazy guy, who was also saying "kill me I dont care" where do you think the knife ended up, in the cop.

And that looks like a good example of why cops need to be trained to properly assess the threat posed by any individual. Perhaps they did everything right in the recent St. Louis situation, who knows? There's video up thread, but I'm not particularly inclined to watch it this morning.

WTF do you know about police training?  Ive been a cop over 20 years and when facing someone with a weapon, you dont try to "properly assess" someone.  If they are a risk to themselves or others, you deal with it.  If they come at you with the knife, you shoot to stop them.  Instead of monday morning quarterbacking, why dont you apply at your local police department so that we can benefit from your vast tactical experience.


He is Canadian, they probably have some sort of video game there where you play as a mounted policed rescuing cats from trees.

The mean streets of Ottawa.
 
2014-08-21 09:45:08 AM  

Litterbox: stovepipe: The huffingtonpost video is rather disturbing.  The "knife wielding" man did not appear to be threatening the officers at all.  They just rolled up, got out, and shot him dead.  No talking, just shooting.  That is all kinds of farked up.

And if you believe thats what actually happened, then you are an idiot.  Nobody is even questioning this shooting because it was legitimate and appropriate use of force.


You know how I know you didn't watch the farking video?
 
2014-08-21 09:45:32 AM  

mjohnson71: A blog with enough revenue to warrant having a lawyer.


If money defines journalistic legitimacy, kindly explain CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, The Daily Mail, The New York Post and the Washington Times.
 
2014-08-21 09:45:51 AM  

Dinobot: Twitter was reporting that one of the CNN guys was snitching out Indy media to the cops so they would be removed and arrested from the Media area.


What's a "media area"? The 1st Amendment makes the entire country a "media area".

/Free Speech Zones
//What!?
 
2014-08-21 09:46:23 AM  

Litterbox: WTF do you know about police training? Ive been a cop over 20 years and when facing someone with a weapon, you dont try to "properly assess" someone. If they are a risk to themselves or others, you deal with it. If they come at you with the knife, you shoot to stop them. Instead of monday morning quarterbacking, why dont you apply at your local police department so that we can benefit from your vast tactical experience.


Now I do have some idea, because i watched the vid. How many people did you find it necessary to blow away within seconds of encountering them during your 20 years as a cop?
 
2014-08-21 09:47:19 AM  

mjohnson71: TeamEd: // The USA prison system is completely counter productive. I'm relatively unsympathetic to the prisoners, but the American system absolutely does not reduce crime -- and that should be the goal of any prison system.

I mostly agree. But stats like this don't help our argument.
[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x642]


There are many possible reasons for the essentially global decrease in crime rates (I'll get to that in a sec), but most studies suggest that "tough on crime" approaches have at best a negligible effect on reducing crime.
http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/fact-sheets/2013/1 0/ 08/prison-time-served-and-recidivism
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/24/making-pr is on-worse-doesnt-reduce-crime-it-increases-it/
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/gendreau.pdf

A study by a Canadian criminologist Paul Gendreau brought together the results of 50 different studies of the deterrent effect of imprisonment involving over 300,000 offenders. The report said: "None of the analyses found imprisonment reduced recidivism. The recidivism rate for offenders who were imprisoned as opposed to given a community sanction was similar. In addition, longer sentences were not associated with reduced recidivism. In fact the opposite was found. Longer sentences were associated with a 3% increase in recidivism. This finding suggests some support for the theory that prison may serve as a 'school for crime' for some offenders".

The point here is that crime rates have decreased at best independently from prison policies.

As for why crime rates have gone down, who knows? This isn't as far fetched as it first sounds:

i.dailymail.co.uk
 
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