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(The New York Times)   Now the gov't wants your car to text with other cars... this should end well. Subby can't wait to hack it   (nytimes.com) divider line 142
    More: Dumbass, Car Talk, connected car, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration  
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3459 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2014 at 10:41 AM (13 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-21 11:18:57 AM  
durbnpoisn:
For the record, I have the same contention with billboards.  Especially the ones that say things like, "If you're reading this, you are not paying attention to the road."

//Really?!


Same for the giant, distracting billboards that say "Have you been in an accident?"  I generally think, "Not until I got distracted by your ad"
 
2014-08-21 11:19:15 AM  

GreyWolf007: skozlaw: Yea, yea, yea.

ETC was going to kill us all. Electronic steering was going to kill us all. OBD-II computers were going to kill us all. Infotainment was going to kill us all.

I don't see why you guys are so worried about car-to-car communicationsgovernment. All the other technicalcorporation advances of the last forty years already killed us all.


"At a government-sponsored pilot program ... and a consortium of eight automakers ..."

Ya'll blame the puppet for everything. (Pay no attention to those eight corporations behind the curtain.)


"The current pattern suggests much lobbying is done by corporations, although a wide variety of coalitions representing diverse groups is possible." Wiki

Possible? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Hahahahaha. Haha.


He worried in regards to a population of which 2/3 owns a smart phone on a website that includes ad tracking and Google services from an Internet connection that is, in all likelihood, being scooped by the NSA.

I hate to break it to you, that barn door ain't closing.
 
2014-08-21 11:24:55 AM  

skozlaw: He worried in regards to a population of which 2/3 owns a smart phone on a website that includes ad tracking and Google services from an Internet connection that is, in all likelihood, being scooped by the NSA.

I hate to break it to you, that barn door ain't closing.


"We know everything you do, every second of every day and it updates in real time!  Every penny you have, what you eat, what you buy, where you buy it, where you go and when and who you go to meet!"

"Huh, so what do you guys do with all this?"

"We sit.. here and.. we.. watch and listen and.. record... all this stuff."

"Every day?"

"Yeah."

"So, that's pretty much your entire life, then?"

"... YESSSSSS *sob*"
 
2014-08-21 11:26:25 AM  
"New things are scary.  Everything is bad.  Corporations are behind everything.  I'm scared to go anywhere but to my keyboard to complain on Fark."
 
2014-08-21 11:26:28 AM  
I could see some waze to make that work in my favor.
img.fark.net

/I've come to terms that the odds are everything I do is recorded in one way or another.  Might as well take advantage of it.
 
2014-08-21 11:29:55 AM  
The idiot driving me doesn't use turn signal.  Please advise your idiot that I will be changing lanes in 7.4539 seconds.
 
2014-08-21 11:32:02 AM  

sandreckoner: "New things are scary.  Everything is bad.  Corporations are behind everything.  I'm scared to go anywhere but to my keyboard to complain on Fark."


Google "help for shut ins".  Or try failedpundits.com.
 
2014-08-21 11:36:37 AM  
lh6.googleusercontent.com
Okay coal is coming out.
 
2014-08-21 11:37:04 AM  
I can see the templates now:

Get out of the fast lane asshole

turn on your lights asshole

use your turn signals asshole

you drive like an old biatch asshole

hey you're cute  show me your tits
 
2014-08-21 11:42:05 AM  
"So, you were fine with driving slow a few seconds ago but now that you see me trying to pass you it's time to speed up?"
 
2014-08-21 11:42:17 AM  
i12.photobucket.com
 
2014-08-21 11:44:35 AM  

skozlaw: Yea, yea, yea.

ETC was going to kill us all. Electronic steering was going to kill us all. OBD-II computers were going to kill us all. Infotainment was going to kill us all.

I don't see why you guys are so worried about car-to-car communications. All the other technical advances of the last forty years already killed us all.


Yet something as simple as a faulty ignition switch actually IS killing people.
 
2014-08-21 11:44:52 AM  
Good timing, DROx.
 
2014-08-21 11:45:16 AM  
Isaac's got this:

1) A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

2) A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

3) A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

I don't even have cruise control in my cars. I'm old-school that way.

/I moved the dimmer switch back to the floor, thanks to a Plymouth switch I found.
//the radio is mechanical push-button
//so is the shifter (automatic transformer)
///'02 PT Cruiser
///a driver oughta DRIVE!
////VIRGULE, Virgule, virgule, virgule
 
2014-08-21 11:45:47 AM  

bunner: skozlaw: He worried in regards to a population of which 2/3 owns a smart phone on a website that includes ad tracking and Google services from an Internet connection that is, in all likelihood, being scooped by the NSA.

I hate to break it to you, that barn door ain't closing.

"We know everything you do, every second of every day and it updates in real time!  Every penny you have, what you eat, what you buy, where you buy it, where you go and when and who you go to meet!"

"Huh, so what do you guys do with all this?"

"We sit.. here and.. we.. watch and listen and.. record... all this stuff."

"Every day?"

"Yeah."

"So, that's pretty much your entire life, then?"

"... YESSSSSS *sob*"


Granted no one is sitting watching your movements.  But get shot by a cop?  We'll go through your history and find out why you deserved to be shot.
 
2014-08-21 11:48:04 AM  

Leopold Stotch: skozlaw: Yea, yea, yea.

ETC was going to kill us all. Electronic steering was going to kill us all. OBD-II computers were going to kill us all. Infotainment was going to kill us all.

I don't see why you guys are so worried about car-to-car communications. All the other technical advances of the last forty years already killed us all.

Yet something as simple as a faulty ignition switch actually IS killing people.


I wonder about that GM recall.  Who dies because they lost power steering?

/CSB  My GM car tried to start when I left the keys hanging in the ignition far enough out so it wouldn't ding because the door was open.
 
2014-08-21 11:48:45 AM  

TheGogmagog: bunner: skozlaw: He worried in regards to a population of which 2/3 owns a smart phone on a website that includes ad tracking and Google services from an Internet connection that is, in all likelihood, being scooped by the NSA.

I hate to break it to you, that barn door ain't closing.

"We know everything you do, every second of every day and it updates in real time!  Every penny you have, what you eat, what you buy, where you buy it, where you go and when and who you go to meet!"

"Huh, so what do you guys do with all this?"

"We sit.. here and.. we.. watch and listen and.. record... all this stuff."

"Every day?"

"Yeah."

"So, that's pretty much your entire life, then?"

"... YESSSSSS *sob*"

Granted no one is sitting watching your movements.  But get shot by a cop?  We'll go through your history and find out why you deserved to be shot.


No, there's no guy with binoculars sitting on your roof, but they don't have to.  We do all the work for them and they just open the data pipe.  Looking at you, Zuckerberg.
 
2014-08-21 11:49:44 AM  
What about cyclists?  They should all be required to have this so my car knows when one is speeding down the hill and about to blow the stop sign next to me.

/Am I doin it right?
 
2014-08-21 11:51:19 AM  
1991 was, oddly, a very good year for American cars.   Especially old school, four door dinosaurs.  They held up well, little to no rust outs, decent mileage.  I wonder what happened in Big Threeville that year.
 
2014-08-21 11:51:52 AM  
"Soz I cut u off lol"
 
2014-08-21 11:52:06 AM  

Pick: RTTY Morse, the original text message!


FTFY.  RTTY is just bastardized carrier shift-keyed Morse.

/Bastardized because machines had trouble with variable element widths.
 
2014-08-21 11:53:07 AM  
If we had self driving cars, then we wouldn't need any of this.

Or insurance.
 
2014-08-21 11:53:52 AM  
"Unless you are a hemorrhoid, get off my ass"
 
2014-08-21 11:54:20 AM  

TheManMythLegend: Keep making cars more and more expensive,  so I keep buying more and more used cars that pollute.


I paid $21k for a Honda Accord last year (total price, drive away) with ABS, backup camera, central locks and power windows, multiple air bags, trip computer, multi-speaker CD/stereo, Bluetooth phone sync, cruise control, etc. That's the base model, btw. I probably could have gotten the equivalent Korean car for $18k, or a compact for $15k or less. Cars are not expensive unless you want them to be.
 
2014-08-21 11:55:03 AM  

Onkel Buck: I can see the templates now:

Get out of the fast lane asshole

turn on your lights asshole

use your turn signals asshole

you drive like an old biatch asshole

hey you're cute  show me your tits


You drive like old people fark.  Slow and sloppy
 
2014-08-21 11:55:14 AM  

dittybopper: Pick: RTTY Morse, the original text message!

FTFY.  RTTY is just bastardized carrier shift-keyed Morse.

/Bastardized because machines had trouble with variable element widths.


L0L, no wai
 
2014-08-21 11:57:08 AM  

TheGogmagog: Leopold Stotch: skozlaw: Yea, yea, yea.

ETC was going to kill us all. Electronic steering was going to kill us all. OBD-II computers were going to kill us all. Infotainment was going to kill us all.

I don't see why you guys are so worried about car-to-car communications. All the other technical advances of the last forty years already killed us all.

Yet something as simple as a faulty ignition switch actually IS killing people.

I wonder about that GM recall.  Who dies because they lost power steering?

/CSB  My GM car tried to start when I left the keys hanging in the ignition far enough out so it wouldn't ding because the door was open.


Well, I guess if you're taking your 6000 lb SUV around a corner at speed and the power steering goes out, it might be enough of a physical jolt and surprise to make you lose control.
 
2014-08-21 11:57:25 AM  
If you can get my 1974 F150 to text ...
 
2014-08-21 11:57:34 AM  

Leopold Stotch: Yet something as simple as a faulty ignition switch actually IS killing people.


A mechanical failure. The cause of every crash before electronics (aside from driver errors, anyway). "Oh, we can't have ETC! What happens when the computer fails and locks it to WOT!?".

I dunno. What happened when the return spring in the throttle body seized and did the same thing?

People have been clutching their pearls about automated and electronic vehicle systems since at least the first mass-produced automatic transmission. It's absurd. There have been good ideas and bad ideas over the years, but when it comes to cars the automatic reaction to pretty much EVERY idea is to scream about how it's the worst thing ever. It's just silly.

TheGogmagog: I wonder about that GM recall. Who dies because they lost power steering?


That wasn't the fundamental problem. When the ignition is off it prevents the airbag from deploying, so if something happens that leads to a crash AND cuts the ignition, the people up front are boned.
 
2014-08-21 11:58:29 AM  

HAMMERTOE: Good timing, DROx.


Yeah, i chuckled
 
2014-08-21 11:58:49 AM  

stevenvictx: If we had self driving cars, then we wouldn't need any of this.

Or insurance.


You won't need insurance right up until the moment your self-driving car hits a self-driving deer...
 
2014-08-21 12:01:18 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: If you can get my 1974 F150 to text ... start...not stall out


Worst emissions control EVAR, the 1974 Chevy carburetor.
 
2014-08-21 12:02:37 PM  

stevenvictx: If we had self driving cars, then we wouldn't need any of this.

Or insurance.


Hah! Even self-driving cars would need insurance, because of human instructions. The cars would have to be certified (and that may be the future anyway) every two years to clear the glitches that wood stack up. How many computers have you seen that work prefectly after 3 years of no maintainance? And what happens when a driver decides to DRIVE?
 
2014-08-21 12:03:27 PM  

ChipNASA: [rlv.zcache.com image 512x512]


Is this the Canadian version of the Yosemite Sam "back off!" mudflaps?
 
2014-08-21 12:06:06 PM  

skozlaw: You won't need insurance right up until the moment your self-driving car hits a self-driving deer...


With a self-driving car, there won't be a need for a windshield. Just put a bulldozer plow on the front.
 
2014-08-21 12:10:46 PM  

LazyMedia: TheManMythLegend: Keep making cars more and more expensive,  so I keep buying more and more used cars that pollute.

I paid $21k for a Honda Accord last year (total price, drive away) with ABS, backup camera, central locks and power windows, multiple air bags, trip computer, multi-speaker CD/stereo, Bluetooth phone sync, cruise control, etc. That's the base model, btw. I probably could have gotten the equivalent Korean car for $18k, or a compact for $15k or less. Cars are not expensive unless you want them to be.


Yeah still too expensive.  I want to pay lass than $10k and drive it for 200k miles,  My current Dakota will be there soon,  but have a few more years left on my Buick,
 
2014-08-21 12:11:48 PM  

Mikeyworld: Even self-driving cars would need insurance, because of human instructions. The cars would have to be certified (and that may be the future anyway) every two years to clear the glitches that wood stack up...


Meh. That's only a problem for certain makes.

img.izismile.com
 
2014-08-21 12:12:58 PM  
OMG, WTF get out the left lane you slow POS.
 
2014-08-21 12:14:16 PM  

Rwa2play: I'm loving how the government wants to track cars but pays no farking attention that hackers can and would do worse if they hack the gov'ts servers.

Assholes.


And then some asshat will fark the whole thing up whenever he wants some lulz by hacking wireless traffic lights that have no security;
http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/08/researchers-find-its-terrify in gly-easy-to-hack-traffic-lights/
 
2014-08-21 12:16:47 PM  
How about this....how about the geniuses at Ford figure out how to make the farking door sensors stop shrieking at me suddenly at 70mph that my driver's door is ajar followed by a blinking warning and alarm to pull over? EVERY FARKING DAY? Third new warranty replaced sensor in a year. Fix this basic piece of electronic wizardry first....then worry about texting other cars my business. How bout that?
 
2014-08-21 12:17:36 PM  
Texting while driving is illegal where I live.  I guess the cops are going to pull me over and say "no, you're fine...the ticket is for the car."
 
2014-08-21 12:21:15 PM  

TheManMythLegend: Yeah still too expensive. I want to pay lass than $10k and drive it for 200k miles, My current Dakota will be there soon, but have a few more years left on my Buick,


Cars aren't too expensive, you just want a lousy car because you don't value anything but the price.

You're willing to sacrifice convenience, safety, comfort and efficiency for a bottom-dollar price. That's fine if that's your preference, but it doesn't make cars too expensive.

Cars haven't actually gotten that much more expensive anyway. By today's dollar the average price of a new car in 1980 was almost $22,000 and you can buy a whole plethora of new cars, including family sedans, for at or very near to that price. What makes them harder to pay now is that so many people's incomes haven't kept up with inflation since then. What makes the average car price of a new car higher now is all the people buying low-end luxury cars, tons of fancy options and larger vehicles like SUVs.

Despite all their massive improvements in the last 15 years or so, cars haven't actually gotten that much more expensive relative to the dollar.
 
2014-08-21 12:21:31 PM  
Higher-end cars are already incorporating those features. Infiniti makes a car that automatically brakes when when a car in front of you brakes, and it doesn't even have to be the one directly in front of you. It can also detect the car in front of that one.
 
2014-08-21 12:28:22 PM  

skozlaw: Mikeyworld: Even self-driving cars would need insurance, because of human instructions. The cars would have to be certified (and that may be the future anyway) every two years to clear the glitches that wood stack up...

Meh. That's only a problem for certain makes.

[img.izismile.com image 640x426]


I was tryin' to emphasize the glitches wit' dat. Filters change the instructions. My Boobies (yeah, another filter) changes the 'automatic tran_ny' to "automatic transformer", making the instruction a whole 'nother subject. We're gonna have my life controlled by PC language in a real world program? Gah!

/I LIKE to drive, just not around other people
//A car with generic instructions is like a school with a 'zero tolerance' policy...application isn't usually gonna make a whole lotta sense.
///My instructions is not your instructions, therein lies the rub...
///'rub' Ha Ha Ha hahahahaha
 
2014-08-21 12:31:09 PM  

skozlaw: TheManMythLegend: Yeah still too expensive. I want to pay lass than $10k and drive it for 200k miles, My current Dakota will be there soon, but have a few more years left on my Buick,

Cars aren't too expensive, you just want a lousy car because you don't value anything but the price.

You're willing to sacrifice convenience, safety, comfort and efficiency for a bottom-dollar price. That's fine if that's your preference, but it doesn't make cars too expensive.

Cars haven't actually gotten that much more expensive anyway. By today's dollar the average price of a new car in 1980 was almost $22,000 and you can buy a whole plethora of new cars, including family sedans, for at or very near to that price. What makes them harder to pay now is that so many people's incomes haven't kept up with inflation since then. What makes the average car price of a new car higher now is all the people buying low-end luxury cars, tons of fancy options and larger vehicles like SUVs.

Despite all their massive improvements in the last 15 years or so, cars haven't actually gotten that much more expensive relative to the dollar.


Sure I value stuff.  My Buick has seat heaters and fits three car seats with plenty of trunk room for groceries,   My Dodge has plenty of power to pull my snowmobiles and 4 wheel drive to get me to my deer stand in the best MN Novembers.

The only car I would break my rule for is the new Corvette.  After a few years of paying nothing for cars I should be able too get one.
 
2014-08-21 12:34:52 PM  
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, car-to-car communication would be great. The ability to propagate information about upcoming hazards and allow the car to act on them would be amazing. If the car in front steps on the brakes, in addition to the brake lights, a signal could be sent to the car in back to slow down. Signals in cars and road signs can set tell a car "here is the speed limit, don't go faster than this", allowing for automatically-adjusting cruise control. The possibilities are endless to the information being sent and how it is acted upon to make a smarter system.

However, as a person who designs systems for a living and has to think about all the ways a design can be defeated and/or abused, the potential for mayhem is really great. The only secure system is an entirely closed system. If a person with a laptop and a $200 Software Radio can theoretically cause crashes and pileups, than the system isn't worth it. You had better convince me that this can't be abused, even then I would probably tell you to stuff it. Any system that would be useful (i.e. control the car faster than a human) would have a huge potential for abuse. Because this is a system that would really only work if all cars on the road would support it, a system of this kind would need specs that are set in stone and would need to have legacy support for 20 years or more. I am more than sure an exploit would be found within 20 years, even it if would mean finding a junker (or a stolen car), ripping the radio out and sending signals to the black box.
 
2014-08-21 12:35:55 PM  
They can spend the money on this crap but they cut driver education classes in high school to virtually nothing.  According to my son, they spent more time teaching about DWI limits and fines than rules of the road.    FTA

"If there are several vehicles between you and the one that's panic-braking, you may not even be aware of it

How about paying attention to farther ahead than the bumper in front of you.  You most certainly should be aware of it and prepare to react to it depending on how it unfolds.  You should also be always aware of what is to your left and right in case that needs to be a part of your decision.
 
2014-08-21 12:45:55 PM  

offacue: How about paying attention to farther ahead than the bumper in front of you.


This is a pretty representative, if zoomed out, image of the type of view that I have for my entire commute:

www.blogcdn.com

Stay farther back you say?

Brilliant!

Perhaps one of the half-dozen cars that fills the gap back up to my bumper will be small enough to see around...
 
2014-08-21 12:47:40 PM  

Mikeyworld: stevenvictx: If we had self driving cars, then we wouldn't need any of this.

Or insurance.

Hah! Even self-driving cars would need insurance, because of human instructions. The cars would have to be certified (and that may be the future anyway) every two years to clear the glitches that wood stack up. How many computers have you seen that work prefectly after 3 years of no maintainance? And what happens when a driver decides to DRIVE?


Quite a few actually. We are not talking about a Windows XP desktop that needs to be reformatted every 6 months. Most of these are embedded systems with fairly simple software that is burned on a ROM (or probably Flash). These are not super complicated systems. Short of having the worst programmers money can buy, and having absolutely no system testing, most of these systems should be more much more reliable than a desktop computer.
 
2014-08-21 12:50:21 PM  

Rwa2play: I'm loving how the government wants to track cars but pays no farking attention that hackers can and would do worse if they hack the gov'ts servers.

Assholes.


Which is where technology security people come and weigh in risk versus benefit. We'd get nowhere if we wanted no one to give ideas.
Besides, if you're scared of hackers, you may as well stop using every electronic device ever. When it comes to computer security, my thoughts on the matter are to assume everything will suffer a successful attack eventually, and to come up with solutions to prolong that, such as firewalls, Antivirus, and the highest level of physical security possible, along with making it very hard to social engineer past as much as possible, and then, pre emptive security measures, like encryption, spreading data across different servers in different places, and finally, after the attack post mortem, estimating the damage and building back up security with new information from both the security community as well as whatever attacks were used in the latest breach.
 
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