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(Reason Magazine)   California legislature: Yo dawg, we heard you like to recycle your recyclables in recyclable bags, so we're gonna make recycling a big pain in the ass, 'cause we like to be a pain in the ass on your ass   (reason.com) divider line 139
    More: Stupid, California State Senate, Ronald Bailey, burlap sack  
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3304 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Aug 2014 at 11:02 PM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



139 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-08-20 07:40:57 PM  
It's already that way for like 80% of the state. It cuts way back on garbage.

You really want to die on this hill?
 
2014-08-20 07:42:34 PM  
They are complaining that they want to charge a fee for paper bags statewide? Every place I've taken a trip to down there recently it was already in effect.
 
2014-08-20 07:47:37 PM  
The government trying to save paper?  The irony tag is laughing so hard that its sides are splitting.
 
2014-08-20 07:50:30 PM  
Because I want to use the same bag to carry raw poultry home one day, then carry vegetables home the next day.
 
2014-08-20 07:50:33 PM  
Eugene, Oregon is already doing something similar. Over a year ago they banned plastic bags in stores so your options are to 1) Bring your own bags, or 2) Pay 5¢ for a paper bag.

At this point Springfield, Oregon has no ban, but it's in consideration.
 
2014-08-20 07:51:16 PM  

martissimo: They are complaining that they want to charge a fee for paper bags statewide? Every place I've taken a trip to down there recently it was already in effect.


Judging from TFA, this would include any business. Fast food places. Department stores.

Do you want to have to buy and keep reusing a durable fabric sack for those greasy In n Out burgers?
 
2014-08-20 07:52:20 PM  

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Because I want to use the same bag to carry raw poultry home one day, then carry vegetables home the next day.


Cellophane bags are still legal. That's why cat owners are fine with this
 
2014-08-20 07:54:08 PM  

HotWingAgenda: martissimo: They are complaining that they want to charge a fee for paper bags statewide? Every place I've taken a trip to down there recently it was already in effect.

Judging from TFA, this would include any business. Fast food places. Department stores.

Do you want to have to buy and keep reusing a durable fabric sack for those greasy In n Out burgers?


It only applies to stores with a certain sq footage or gross sales numbers. Think anything Trader Joe's sized or bigger.
 
2014-08-20 07:55:43 PM  
Good..we use too much paper and if you've lived or driven by a paper plant you know the by products are nasty shait.

It makes good cents for the store too---there's a reason Aldi has some of the lowest prices and does not offer bags of any kind unless you buy one at check out. This is one corporation's choice not a mandate from goverment.
 
2014-08-20 07:58:39 PM  

optikeye: Good..we use too much paper and if you've lived or driven by a paper plant you know the by products are nasty shait.

It makes good cents for the store too---there's a reason Aldi has some of the lowest prices and does not offer bags of any kind unless you buy one at check out. This is one corporation's choice not a mandate from goverment.


Aldi doesn't take credit cards either.
 
2014-08-20 07:59:18 PM  
It's no coincidence that grocery stores are pushing for the plastic bag ban, they now all get to force customers to pay for paper bags.
 
2014-08-20 08:01:19 PM  
I'm sure reason magazine is telling me the truth here and not exaggerating anything at all
 
2014-08-20 08:01:27 PM  
I'm so used to seeing bags blowing about I thought I saw one rolling on the road in front of me last night, but it turned out to a a freshly run over cat writhing in agony.
 
2014-08-20 08:12:57 PM  

dj_bigbird: It's no coincidence that grocery stores are pushing for the plastic bag ban, they now all get to force customers to pay for paper bags.


because that extra 10-20 cents is a real show stopper
 
2014-08-20 08:18:29 PM  

Bathia_Mapes: Eugene, Oregon is already doing something similar. Over a year ago they banned plastic bags in stores so your options are to 1) Bring your own bags, or 2) Pay 5¢ for a paper bag.

At this point Springfield, Oregon has no ban, but it's in consideration.


Where I live, there is no paper bag option.  You bring your own bags, or you buy reusable bags for [usually] $1.29 each.  Or you juggle your stuff on the way out to the truck.
 
2014-08-20 08:31:03 PM  

netweavr: HotWingAgenda: martissimo: They are complaining that they want to charge a fee for paper bags statewide? Every place I've taken a trip to down there recently it was already in effect.

Judging from TFA, this would include any business. Fast food places. Department stores.

Do you want to have to buy and keep reusing a durable fabric sack for those greasy In n Out burgers?

It only applies to stores with a certain sq footage or gross sales numbers. Think anything Trader Joe's sized or bigger.


You don't think McDonald's, Wendy's, Jack in the Box, Burger King and In n Out would have gross sales to rival Trader Joe's?

o_0
 
2014-08-20 08:34:32 PM  

HotWingAgenda: netweavr: HotWingAgenda: martissimo: They are complaining that they want to charge a fee for paper bags statewide? Every place I've taken a trip to down there recently it was already in effect.

Judging from TFA, this would include any business. Fast food places. Department stores.

Do you want to have to buy and keep reusing a durable fabric sack for those greasy In n Out burgers?

It only applies to stores with a certain sq footage or gross sales numbers. Think anything Trader Joe's sized or bigger.

You don't think McDonald's, Wendy's, Jack in the Box, Burger King and In n Out would have gross sales to rival Trader Joe's?

o_0


Trader Joe's is about the square foot size. Fast food places still give crappy bags to people dumb enough to eat their swill.
 
2014-08-20 08:36:36 PM  

HotWingAgenda: netweavr: HotWingAgenda: martissimo: They are complaining that they want to charge a fee for paper bags statewide? Every place I've taken a trip to down there recently it was already in effect.

Judging from TFA, this would include any business. Fast food places. Department stores.

Do you want to have to buy and keep reusing a durable fabric sack for those greasy In n Out burgers?

It only applies to stores with a certain sq footage or gross sales numbers. Think anything Trader Joe's sized or bigger.

You don't think McDonald's, Wendy's, Jack in the Box, Burger King and In n Out would have gross sales to rival Trader Joe's?

o_0


It probably wouldn't apply to any of those except In n Out, they dont franchise and remain family owned.

I say probably because there are suits about labor laws trying to break down the corporate wall that insulates all those others from ownership, but yeah. In n Out would definitely be an issue on that one at the very least
 
2014-08-20 08:54:52 PM  
Grocery store plastic bags were 5 cents here, until it came to their attention that it was just a big pain the ass and didn't really make a difference.  It's now up to the store as to whether or not the charge for bags.  Many still do.

It did not impact take out food.

If you're putting raw poultry directly into the bag, you're buying it at the wrong place or just trying to mislead with something that does not actually happen.
 
2014-08-20 09:03:09 PM  

netweavr: It's already that way for like 80% of the state. It cuts way back on garbage.

You really want to die on this hill?


No, I want a freakin bag for my sh*t.

www.quickmeme.com
 
2014-08-20 09:12:23 PM  

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Because I want to use the same bag to carry raw poultry home one day, then carry vegetables home the next day.


Yeah. Your poultry would still be wrapped in plastic.
 
2014-08-20 09:35:17 PM  
They have this asshole law in San Francisco. When I don't have my ecosavetheworldbag, usually I will go to the section where they have empty wine cartons and put my groceries there.

For as much as this city government spouts out how ecoholy it is to recycle, there are no places to get the CRV charge refunded less than 20 minutes drive, and they are only open during hours when I am at work.
 
2014-08-20 09:55:53 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Bathia_Mapes: Eugene, Oregon is already doing something similar. Over a year ago they banned plastic bags in stores so your options are to 1) Bring your own bags, or 2) Pay 5¢ for a paper bag.

At this point Springfield, Oregon has no ban, but it's in consideration.

Where I live, there is no paper bag option.  You bring your own bags, or you buy reusable bags for [usually] $1.29 each.  Or you juggle your stuff on the way out to the truck.


That's too bad. Eugene stores do have the "buy a reusable bag" option too, but when I do shop in Eugene (maybe once a month since I live in Springfield) I bring along my sturdy canvas bags, some over 15 years old & still going strong. I've got a few of the ones made from re-purposed soda bottles but most of those have holes in them after less than a year of usage.

I use a granny cart when shopping and unless I'm going to either the nearby Target or Walmart Neighborhood Market I rely on the city buses, so carrying stuff without a bag wouldn't work well for me.
 
2014-08-20 11:13:47 PM  

dj_bigbird: It's no coincidence that grocery stores are pushing for the plastic bag ban, they now all get to force customers to pay for paper bags.


Well, just the people who are too stupid to plan ahead and bring their own.

/most places don't even bother to charge
 
2014-08-20 11:19:40 PM  
I've had the problem where they try to charge me for my reusable bags. Especially when I buy cartloads of stuff at thrift stores, and they try to charge me more for my bag than I originally paid for it.
 
2014-08-20 11:22:49 PM  

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Because I want to use the same bag to carry raw poultry home one day, then carry vegetables home the next day.


Protip:
WASH YOUR REUSABLE BAGS
 
2014-08-20 11:25:34 PM  
Wait until Cali charges water fees on every possible bill. Ya ain't seen nuthin' yet.
 
2014-08-20 11:27:41 PM  
Oh for fark's sake is this the kind of shait they're biatching about?  I've brought my own bags for a few years now and yes you still use cellophane bags for your meat and veggies.
 
2014-08-20 11:29:59 PM  
boxes
 
2014-08-20 11:32:01 PM  
Subby, do you actually use plastic grocery bags to store your recycleables?

Because that sounds kind of like a giant pain in the ass.
 
2014-08-20 11:39:20 PM  
"SB 270 gives California manufacturers another reason to move jobs out of state,"

What manufacturers? I'm not understanding the reasoning here.
 
2014-08-20 11:40:47 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: Grocery store plastic bags were 5 cents here, until it came to their attention that it was just a big pain the ass and didn't really make a difference.  It's now up to the store as to whether or not the charge for bags.  Many still do.

It did not impact take out food.

If you're putting raw poultry directly into the bag, you're buying it at the wrong place or just trying to mislead with something that does not actually happen.


What is interesting about this bill is that someone decided that the bags must have a minimum price. What's wrong with giving them away? What's wrong with recycled paper? Hell, the paper used in a new bag was grown specifically to be a paper bag, so it isn't like they cut down a natural forest to make it.
 
2014-08-20 11:41:35 PM  

Walker: netweavr: It's already that way for like 80% of the state. It cuts way back on garbage.

You really want to die on this hill?

No, I want a freakin bag for my sh*t.

[www.quickmeme.com image 625x833]


You could always buy a bag.
 
2014-08-20 11:43:43 PM  

Kevin72: They have this asshole law in San Francisco. When I don't have my ecosavetheworldbag, usually I will go to the section where they have empty wine cartons and put my groceries there.

For as much as this city government spouts out how ecoholy it is to recycle, there are no places to get the CRV charge refunded less than 20 minutes drive, and they are only open during hours when I am at work.


Driving 20 minutes in SF? That's like 6 blocks.

CRV is a nickel, just leave it for the bums and the old Chinese ladies. They will get it to the recycling yard.
 
2014-08-21 12:09:59 AM  
Get my fainting couch. A bag'll be a whole *dime*
 
2014-08-21 12:12:59 AM  
Things are going to get gross, sticky and disgusting everywhere once plastic bags are banned coast-to-coast. I've seen a  lot of things that people carry that would have slopped grease and slime everywhere had it not been for the plastic bag it was in holding in that filth.
 
2014-08-21 12:15:55 AM  
Soon, they will ban ALL forms of bags in every way, shape, or form. You'll be forced to walk around with all sort of loose crap rolling around and spilling out of your arms.

WHY CAN'T I HOLD ALL THESE LEMONS ANYTHING?
 
2014-08-21 12:16:59 AM  

optikeye: Good..we use too much paper and if you've lived or driven by a paper plant you know the by products are nasty shait.

It makes good cents for the store too---there's a reason Aldi has some of the lowest prices and does not offer bags of any kind unless you buy one at check out. This is one corporation's choice not a mandate from goverment.


-- Wants to impose their eco-extremism on others.

-- cannot even spell "sense" properly
 
2014-08-21 12:18:36 AM  

optikeye: Good..we use too much paper and if you've lived or driven by a paper plant you know the by products are nasty shait.

It makes good cents for the store too---there's a reason Aldi has some of the lowest prices and does not offer bags of any kind unless you buy one at check out. This is one corporation's choice not a mandate from goverment.


There is a way to make paper out of kelp.  The city council of Port Angeles, Washington rejected my proposal nearly 20 years ago because it required dumping raw sewage into an already dead bay.

It's still a viable option and the bay is still dead.  But fark making money, let's all be poor hippies is their motto.
 
2014-08-21 12:21:29 AM  

netweavr: Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Because I want to use the same bag to carry raw poultry home one day, then carry vegetables home the next day.

Cellophane bags are still legal. That's why cat owners are fine with this


yeah but what do the cats think of the bags
 
2014-08-21 12:21:32 AM  

TV's Vinnie: Soon, they will ban ALL forms of bags in every way, shape, or form. You'll be forced to walk around with all sort of loose crap rolling around and spilling out of your arms.

WHY CAN'T I HOLD ALL THESE LEMONS ANYTHING?


Not sure if serious.
 
2014-08-21 12:24:26 AM  
Jesus, can we over-asinine life any more?
 
2014-08-21 12:25:30 AM  

Fart_Machine: TV's Vinnie: Soon, they will ban ALL forms of bags in every way, shape, or form. You'll be forced to walk around with all sort of loose crap rolling around and spilling out of your arms.

WHY CAN'T I HOLD ALL THESE LEMONS ANYTHING?

Not sure if serious.


Wait 15 years, bud.
 
2014-08-21 12:25:58 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: optikeye: Good..we use too much paper and if you've lived or driven by a paper plant you know the by products are nasty shait.

It makes good cents for the store too---there's a reason Aldi has some of the lowest prices and does not offer bags of any kind unless you buy one at check out. This is one corporation's choice not a mandate from goverment.

There is a way to make paper out of kelp.  The city council of Port Angeles, Washington rejected my proposal nearly 20 years ago because it required dumping raw sewage into an already dead bay.

It's still a viable option and the bay is still dead.  But fark making money, let's all be poor hippies is their motto.


Citation needed to your proposal. Not because I do not believe you, but because I want to see how you wrote that dumping raw sewage (that creates problems like disease, algal blooms, etc) would be a good idea into an open body of water.
 
2014-08-21 12:27:39 AM  

TV's Vinnie: Fart_Machine: TV's Vinnie: Soon, they will ban ALL forms of bags in every way, shape, or form. You'll be forced to walk around with all sort of loose crap rolling around and spilling out of your arms.

WHY CAN'T I HOLD ALL THESE LEMONS ANYTHING?

Not sure if serious.

Wait 15 years, bud.


img.pandawhale.com
 
2014-08-21 12:28:48 AM  

wildcardjack: I've had the problem where they try to charge me for my reusable bags. Especially when I buy cartloads of stuff at thrift stores, and they try to charge me more for my bag than I originally paid for it.


Weird. In Eugene stores they deduct 6¢ off your total for each reusable bag you bring from home.
 
2014-08-21 12:28:56 AM  
Sweden recycles about 96% of their shiat, and people there seem to deal with it just fine.  In fact they're SO good at recycling and trash processing that other countries actually PAY Sweden to take their trash, which they then turn into domestic heating and energy.

I can only hope that one day we won't be too collectively lazy to run a program like that.
 
2014-08-21 12:31:09 AM  
Okay, for all of you farktards complaining about being able to carry home your double-doubles, no restaurant of any kind meets the bill's definition of a store:

 (g)  "Store" means a retail establishment that meets any of the
 following requirements:
 (1)  A full-line, self-service retail store with gross annual sales
 of two million dollars ($2,000,000) or more that sells a line of dry
 groceries, canned goods, or nonfood items, and some perishable
 items.
 (2)  Has at least 10,000 square feet of retail space that generates
 sales or use tax pursuant to the Bradley-Burns Uniform Local Sales
 and Use Tax Law (Part 1.5 (commencing with Section 7200) of
 Division 2 of the Revenue and Taxation Code) and has a pharmacy
 licensed pursuant to Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 4000)
 of Division 2 of the Business and Professions Code.
 (3)  Is a convenience food store, foodmart, or other entity that
 is engaged in the retail sale of a limited line of goods, generally
 including milk, bread, soda, and snack foods, and that holds a Type
 20 or Type 21 license issued by the Department of Alcoholic
 Beverage Control.
 (4)  Is a convenience food store, foodmart, or other entity that
 is engaged in the retail sale of goods intended to be consumed off
 the premises, and that holds a Type 20 or Type 21 license issued
 by the Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control.
 (5)  Is not otherwise subject to paragraph (1), (2), (3), or (4), if
 the retail establishment voluntarily agrees to comply with the
 requirements imposed upon a store pursuant to this chapter,
 irrevocably notifies the department of its intent to comply with
 the requirements imposed upon a store pursuant to this chapter,
 and complies with the requirements established pursuant to Section
 42284.
 
2014-08-21 12:31:54 AM  
I'm old enough to remember when plastic bags were first introduced (late 70s/early 80s).  There was a big to-do at the time about plastic vs. paper.

The thing is, it wasn't all that long ago, really, when my grandparents didn't even have that choice.  Ever hear of "box boys?"  Wonder why they got that name?  Yes, somehow people for decades managed to get their purchases home without disposable bags.  I get tired of seeing old bags tossed in gutters all the time.  Even with precautions, somehow enough people get bags blown away but don't go after them.

I just have it in mind to not be wasteful.  I re-use all bags.  We use "grey-water" at home (we save water from, say, boiled potatoes to use on the plants).  Just take a minute and think about not throwing everything away.
 
2014-08-21 12:31:55 AM  

ColonelCathcart: Smeggy Smurf: optikeye: Good..we use too much paper and if you've lived or driven by a paper plant you know the by products are nasty shait.

It makes good cents for the store too---there's a reason Aldi has some of the lowest prices and does not offer bags of any kind unless you buy one at check out. This is one corporation's choice not a mandate from goverment.

There is a way to make paper out of kelp.  The city council of Port Angeles, Washington rejected my proposal nearly 20 years ago because it required dumping raw sewage into an already dead bay.

It's still a viable option and the bay is still dead.  But fark making money, let's all be poor hippies is their motto.

Citation needed to your proposal. Not because I do not believe you, but because I want to see how you wrote that dumping raw sewage (that creates problems like disease, algal blooms, etc) would be a good idea into an open body of water.


It was too long ago for something like that.  The idea was to close off a nearby bay that's been dead for decades and dump the sewage into the bay from both small towns.  The kelp would thrive off of the sewage.  Imagine growth of 3-4 feet per day over a nearly 8 square mile body of water.  Once it was harvested it would be towed at sea for 15 miles to a site that at that time still had a paper mill.  It's gone now.  Once processed it would have been trucked 6 miles to a deepwater port for export.

Alas they heard sewage and their brains snapped shut.  Not that I'm really surprised, that city council is comprised of low functioning retards that fear anything that might bring more money into the town thus upsetting their stranglehold on power.
 
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