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(Five Thirty-Eight)   That "Darren Wilson shot more times at Michael Brown than the entire British police force fired at suspects last year" fwd? Yeah, that's a bunch of bollocks   (fivethirtyeight.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Independent Police Complaints Commission, England and Wales  
•       •       •

6670 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Aug 2014 at 10:21 AM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-20 09:11:12 AM  
mojoimage.com


LOLWUT?
 
2014-08-20 09:16:02 AM  
What's all this then?
 
2014-08-20 09:17:58 AM  
The one I read doesn't even mention Darren Wilson. It mentions an incident in FL where over 100 shots were fired.
 
2014-08-20 09:31:43 AM  
Guns are also banned in the UK. With a few exceptions.
 
2014-08-20 09:53:34 AM  

colinspooky: Guns are also banned in the UK. With a few exceptions.


So, if the US wingnuts are correct, why don't the criminals in the UK still have illegal guns? You'd think they'd have overthrown the country by now.

Unless the local wingnuts are full of 2A bullshiat, of course.

Nah, that'd never happen.
 
2014-08-20 10:02:29 AM  
The criminals DO still have illegal guns, but a ban means there are fewer guns in circulation. The rest of your stuff I just didn't follow.
 
2014-08-20 10:14:12 AM  

colinspooky: The criminals DO still have illegal guns, but a ban means there are fewer guns in circulation. The rest of your stuff I just didn't follow.


So fewer guns means fewer illegal guns which means fewer deaths from guns and this is somehow a bad thing.
 
2014-08-20 10:19:25 AM  

vudutek: So, if the US wingnuts are correct, why don't the criminals in the UK still have illegal guns?


They do.

Also, as it turns out, it's slightly easier to limit firearm importation in the UK versus the US when:
-Population is quite a lot smaller (roughly 20-25% that of the US)
-The land area is quite a lot smaller (roughly 3% that of the US)
-The UK is an archipelago (though primarily consisting of just a few main islands) with no land crossing to a country outside its territory
-To that end, there is much less coast line (roughly 20% that of the CONUS)
-The populace is willing to put up with security cameras on every corner with piggyback gunshot mics
-There is not a cultural heritage or tradition of firearm ownership, nor a legal guarantee of right

That being said, let's also not forget that the IRA managed to import a shiat-ton of guns and bombs despite them being illegal. As it turns out, criminals will subvert the law to do what they want.

In re: the thing with Darren Wilson:
EVEN IF Brown were a potted-up strong-arm thug maniac robber all strung out on the marijuana, the events that have unfolded have far superseded the initial cause of protest. Wilson could be exonerated and Brown could be found to be a serial nun rapist and that would still not detract from the fact that the police countered a protest with increasingly out-of-scale violent and militarized response tactics.

To quote:

"But if you look at the streets, it wasn't about Rodney King
It's this f*cked-up situation and these f*cked-up police
It's about coming up and staying on top
And screaming 1-8-7 on a motherf*cking cop"
 
2014-08-20 10:22:35 AM  
I would be willing to bet that US criminals fired on cops far more than UK criminals, too.
 
2014-08-20 10:25:32 AM  
Liberals hate facts

Facts have such a bias against the liberal agenda

This is what happens when you invent a crisis and now the evidence does not support your original narrative, grab at straws, anything that will support your claim
 
2014-08-20 10:25:48 AM  

mysticcat: I would be willing to bet that US criminals fired on cops far more than UK criminals, too.


Funny how that works when you have more guns in circulation.
 
2014-08-20 10:25:54 AM  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AFia3Uo0TQ

Warning NSFW Language. Interesting video
 
2014-08-20 10:26:48 AM  
This can't be so, everything in a fwd:fwd:fwd: is true.
 
2014-08-20 10:27:12 AM  

dantheman195: Liberals hate facts

Facts have such a bias against the liberal agenda

This is what happens when you invent a crisis and now the evidence does not support your original narrative, grab at straws, anything that will support your claim


You've got to be kidding me.
 
2014-08-20 10:27:20 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: mysticcat: I would be willing to bet that US criminals fired on cops far more than UK criminals, too.

Funny how that works when you have more guns in circulation.


Let's take all the guns from the law abiding citizens so only the police and criminals will have them......
 
2014-08-20 10:27:21 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: mysticcat: I would be willing to bet that US criminals fired on cops far more than UK criminals, too.

Funny how that works when you have more guns in circulation.


Genie is out of the bottle
 
2014-08-20 10:27:55 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: dantheman195: Liberals hate facts

Facts have such a bias against the liberal agenda

This is what happens when you invent a crisis and now the evidence does not support your original narrative, grab at straws, anything that will support your claim

You've got to be kidding me.


Well, that is what is going on, amirite
 
2014-08-20 10:28:38 AM  

mysticcat: cameroncrazy1984: mysticcat: I would be willing to bet that US criminals fired on cops far more than UK criminals, too.

Funny how that works when you have more guns in circulation.

Genie is out of the bottle


Yup.  We're boned.
 
2014-08-20 10:29:27 AM  
If black men were getting killed unjustly (and I'm not saying this one was unjust yet) by cops on a regular basis, then I see the concern.  They're not.  I thank the protestors for bringing the world's attention to this fringe concern of theirs, but back to work people, Tony Stewart is still walking the streets a free man.
 
2014-08-20 10:30:01 AM  
Any European nation that survived the 20th Century really has nothing to say about the violence in US society.
 
2014-08-20 10:30:09 AM  
dantheman195: "This is what happens when you invent a crisis and now the evidence does not support your original narrative, grab at straws, anything that will support your claim"

like death panels?
/ the sickness extends to everyone who approaches politics as a team sport
 
2014-08-20 10:30:29 AM  

tricycleracer: mysticcat: cameroncrazy1984: mysticcat: I would be willing to bet that US criminals fired on cops far more than UK criminals, too.

Funny how that works when you have more guns in circulation.

Genie is out of the bottle

Yup.  We're boned.


Guns are the problem, not violent criminals

No one is responsible for their actions in the eyes of the a liberal, only the tools that they chose to use to do their misdeeds

Right?
 
2014-08-20 10:31:59 AM  

tricycleracer: mysticcat: cameroncrazy1984: mysticcat: I would be willing to bet that US criminals fired on cops far more than UK criminals, too.

Funny how that works when you have more guns in circulation.

Genie is out of the bottle

Yup.  We're boned.


I think what we need is more guns.  What we need is a weapons giveaway program. It's like one of those government programs. Just come and get anything you want. We're gonna give away all the automatic weapons. All the side-loaders, clip-loaders, shoot-em-backs... Saturday night specials... Colt. 45s, shotguns. Anything you want, chains, knives, straight razors... bottles, brick bats, baseball bats... and big kind of slanted jagged kind of things.

I wanna see a goddamn big shoot 'em up, kill 'em, bang, stab 'em, crush... slice, kill, boilin' oil. Catapults throwin' rocks and shiat and blowin' up. Undercover shiat, yeah. So I wanna see people putting secret things in cars... and cars explodin' and see the people explodin'. I wanna see knife cuttin', slice cuttin' choppin' and blowin' up. Hah-aaah yeah.

That's right. A free weapons give away program. I see it. Gonna solve all these goddamn problems."
 
2014-08-20 10:32:38 AM  

TwistedIvory: vudutek: So, if the US wingnuts are correct, why don't the criminals in the UK still have illegal guns?

They do.

Also, as it turns out, it's slightly easier to limit firearm importation in the UK versus the US when:
-Population is quite a lot smaller (roughly 20-25% that of the US)
-The land area is quite a lot smaller (roughly 3% that of the US)
-The UK is an archipelago (though primarily consisting of just a few main islands) with no land crossing to a country outside its territory
-To that end, there is much less coast line (roughly 20% that of the CONUS)
-The populace is willing to put up with security cameras on every corner with piggyback gunshot mics
-There is not a cultural heritage or tradition of firearm ownership, nor a legal guarantee of right

That being said, let's also not forget that the IRA managed to import a shiat-ton of guns and bombs despite them being illegal. As it turns out, criminals will subvert the law to do what they want.

In re: the thing with Darren Wilson:
EVEN IF Brown were a potted-up strong-arm thug maniac robber all strung out on the marijuana, the events that have unfolded have far superseded the initial cause of protest. Wilson could be exonerated and Brown could be found to be a serial nun rapist and that would still not detract from the fact that the police countered a protest with increasingly out-of-scale violent and militarized response tactics.

To quote:

"But if you look at the streets, it wasn't about Rodney King
It's this f*cked-up situation and these f*cked-up police
It's about coming up and staying on top
And screaming 1-8-7 on a motherf*cking cop"


Pretty much sums it up, except the "cameras on every corner" thing. This is essentially a myth based on a single flawed report that looked at one street in London with hundreds of high value stores and then extrapolated that to the whole country. If you're in Trafalgar Square or Oxford Street then there are going to be lots of cameras, though most owned and operated by stores and not the state. This is no different to the US where the Times Square bomber was caught on dozens of cctv.
 
2014-08-20 10:32:54 AM  
The Brits won't be high-fiving each other for their low gun ownership rate when the zombies come shuffling down the road.
 
2014-08-20 10:33:52 AM  
Anyone care for some Chicago popcorn while this thread unfolds?

img.fark.net
 
2014-08-20 10:34:20 AM  

Rapmaster2000: tricycleracer: mysticcat: cameroncrazy1984: mysticcat: I would be willing to bet that US criminals fired on cops far more than UK criminals, too.

Funny how that works when you have more guns in circulation.

Genie is out of the bottle

Yup.  We're boned.

I think what we need is more guns.  What we need is a weapons giveaway program. It's like one of those government programs. Just come and get anything you want. We're gonna give away all the automatic weapons. All the side-loaders, clip-loaders, shoot-em-backs... Saturday night specials... Colt. 45s, shotguns. Anything you want, chains, knives, straight razors... bottles, brick bats, baseball bats... and big kind of slanted jagged kind of things.

I wanna see a goddamn big shoot 'em up, kill 'em, bang, stab 'em, crush... slice, kill, boilin' oil. Catapults throwin' rocks and shiat and blowin' up. Undercover shiat, yeah. So I wanna see people putting secret things in cars... and cars explodin' and see the people explodin'. I wanna see knife cuttin', slice cuttin' choppin' and blowin' up. Hah-aaah yeah.

That's right. A free weapons give away program. I see it. Gonna solve all these goddamn problems."


Everyone already has access to many, many deadly weapons. Ban everything.
 
2014-08-20 10:34:58 AM  

dantheman195: only the tools that they chose to use to do their misdeeds


Weapons.
 
2014-08-20 10:35:08 AM  

Bowen: The Brits won't be high-fiving each other for their low gun ownership rate when the zombies come shuffling down the road.


Uh, gunshots attract zombies.  Be sure to stay far away from me when the SHTF, amateur.
 
2014-08-20 10:36:17 AM  
fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net
 
2014-08-20 10:36:19 AM  
As I mentions in a thread yesterday, somehow cops in the rest of the world manage to take down big burly men who are violent all the time without having to shoot them, plus disarming and subduing the occasional knife wielding assailant, and you don't see then getting killed more than US police officers.

Why do our cops suck so badly that they need to fall back on shooting people? Just like health care, it seems like public safety is something else we dump huge amounts of resources at, to the point where it is ridiculous overkill, only to get worse outcomes.
 
2014-08-20 10:36:35 AM  

Rapmaster2000: tricycleracer: mysticcat: cameroncrazy1984: mysticcat: I would be willing to bet that US criminals fired on cops far more than UK criminals, too.

Funny how that works when you have more guns in circulation.

Genie is out of the bottle

Yup.  We're boned.

I think what we need is more guns.  What we need is a weapons giveaway program. It's like one of those government programs. Just come and get anything you want. We're gonna give away all the automatic weapons. All the side-loaders, clip-loaders, shoot-em-backs... Saturday night specials... Colt. 45s, shotguns. Anything you want, chains, knives, straight razors... bottles, brick bats, baseball bats... and big kind of slanted jagged kind of things.

I wanna see a goddamn big shoot 'em up, kill 'em, bang, stab 'em, crush... slice, kill, boilin' oil. Catapults throwin' rocks and shiat and blowin' up. Undercover shiat, yeah. So I wanna see people putting secret things in cars... and cars explodin' and see the people explodin'. I wanna see knife cuttin', slice cuttin' choppin' and blowin' up. Hah-aaah yeah.

That's right. A free weapons give away program. I see it. Gonna solve all these goddamn problems."


Why can't people just buy the gun of their choice? Why does the government have to make a program out of everything?

Think about it and respond in an intelligent manner.....
 
2014-08-20 10:36:47 AM  

wearetheworld: If black men were getting killed unjustly (and I'm not saying this one was unjust yet) by cops on a regular basis, then I see the concern.  They're not.  I thank the protestors for bringing the world's attention to this fringe concern of theirs, but back to work people, Tony Stewart is still walking the streets a free man.


Not sure if serious and stupid or slightly more educated and trollin'.

Actually, that sums up much of my Fark experience.
 
2014-08-20 10:36:49 AM  

untaken_name: Rapmaster2000: tricycleracer: mysticcat: cameroncrazy1984: mysticcat: I would be willing to bet that US criminals fired on cops far more than UK criminals, too.

Funny how that works when you have more guns in circulation.

Genie is out of the bottle

Yup.  We're boned.

I think what we need is more guns.  What we need is a weapons giveaway program. It's like one of those government programs. Just come and get anything you want. We're gonna give away all the automatic weapons. All the side-loaders, clip-loaders, shoot-em-backs... Saturday night specials... Colt. 45s, shotguns. Anything you want, chains, knives, straight razors... bottles, brick bats, baseball bats... and big kind of slanted jagged kind of things.

I wanna see a goddamn big shoot 'em up, kill 'em, bang, stab 'em, crush... slice, kill, boilin' oil. Catapults throwin' rocks and shiat and blowin' up. Undercover shiat, yeah. So I wanna see people putting secret things in cars... and cars explodin' and see the people explodin'. I wanna see knife cuttin', slice cuttin' choppin' and blowin' up. Hah-aaah yeah.

That's right. A free weapons give away program. I see it. Gonna solve all these goddamn problems."

Everyone already has access to many, many deadly weapons. Ban everything.


There's also the option of solving this through the private sector.  I recommend a "Leave-a-gun-Take-a-gun" tray at the entrance of every business.  Imagine how safe you'll feel knowing that a gun is in the hands of everyone around you.  Criminals will think twice about shooting anyone who is armed much like the police do the same.  It's a brilliant solution, but libs hate solutions.  Libs just want to blame everyone but themselves.

It's sad..  I feel sorry for them.  It also makes eagles cry.
 
2014-08-20 10:37:24 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: dantheman195: only the tools that they chose to use to do their misdeeds

Weapons.


And a gun is the best civilian weapon out there.  And thanks to years of policy, incredibly plentiful and easy to find.
 
2014-08-20 10:38:18 AM  
Just thank heaven that Thatcher didn't give guns to the Special Patrol Group. That would've been a mess.
 
2014-08-20 10:38:52 AM  
Aw, rats, I forgot the new Fark guidelines.

The above should read:

"Brown could be found to be a serial mean person who routinely pushed smaller children into mud puddles and never wrote thank-you letters to his grandmother."

cameroncrazy1984: So fewer guns means fewer illegal guns which means fewer deaths from guns and this is somehow a bad thing.


We get it, you're rabidly anti-gun and you lack the desire to approach root causes rather than symptoms. It's understandable that nuance is difficult and that certain factors may be lost in the mix, such as that much if not most of the gun violence in the United States is attributed to gang violence or that, while media reporting of gun violence has increased hugely since the 1990s, gun violence itself has been dropping steadily for over 20 years in the US.

It's almost as if there were a Gordian knot of issues there and teasing apart the entire ball is much more difficult than pointing at one obvious string.
 
2014-08-20 10:38:52 AM  
dantheman195:  Facts have such a bias against the liberal agenda

You are the only person in history to 1) say that, and 2) believe that.  Not even the usual Conservative trolls in here would say that, they'd be laughed out of the place.
 
2014-08-20 10:40:45 AM  

Bowen: The Brits won't be high-fiving each other for their low gun ownership rate when the zombies come shuffling down the road.


Cricket bats, man. Haven't you seen Shaun of the Dead?
 
2014-08-20 10:40:48 AM  

dantheman195: Liberals hate facts

Facts have such a bias against the liberal agenda


This is what happens when you invent a crisis and now the evidence does not support your original narrative, grab at straws, anything that will support your claim


I like how you go right to the lowest common denominator argument, and don't try to mess around with any buildup, no false hope there will be any intelligence to follow.


gopher321: [mojoimage.com image 701x683]


LOLWUT?


I love that
 
2014-08-20 10:40:59 AM  

Rapmaster2000: tricycleracer: mysticcat: cameroncrazy1984: mysticcat: I would be willing to bet that US criminals fired on cops far more than UK criminals, too.

Funny how that works when you have more guns in circulation.

Genie is out of the bottle

Yup.  We're boned.

I think what we need is more guns.  What we need is a weapons giveaway program. It's like one of those government programs. Just come and get anything you want. We're gonna give away all the automatic weapons. All the side-loaders, clip-loaders, shoot-em-backs... Saturday night specials... Colt. 45s, shotguns. Anything you want, chains, knives, straight razors... bottles, brick bats, baseball bats... and big kind of slanted jagged kind of things.

I wanna see a goddamn big shoot 'em up, kill 'em, bang, stab 'em, crush... slice, kill, boilin' oil. Catapults throwin' rocks and shiat and blowin' up. Undercover shiat, yeah. So I wanna see people putting secret things in cars... and cars explodin' and see the people explodin'. I wanna see knife cuttin', slice cuttin' choppin' and blowin' up. Hah-aaah yeah.

That's right. A free weapons give away program. I see it. Gonna solve all these goddamn problems."


Like Switzerland?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/switzerland.asp
 
2014-08-20 10:41:46 AM  

TwistedIvory: We get it, you're rabidly anti-gun and you lack the desire to approach root causes rather than symptoms.


Conservatives shoot down any legislation that may help the poors, so, point your blame at the same people who rally around the NRA for votes.
 
2014-08-20 10:42:20 AM  

Bowen: The Brits won't be high-fiving each other for their low gun ownership rate when the zombies come shuffling down the road.


We'll be fine, there are plenty of cricket bats around, and they don't run out of ammo at a critical moment.
 
2014-08-20 10:43:35 AM  

Lokkii: Rapmaster2000: tricycleracer: mysticcat: cameroncrazy1984: mysticcat: I would be willing to bet that US criminals fired on cops far more than UK criminals, too.

Funny how that works when you have more guns in circulation.

Genie is out of the bottle

Yup.  We're boned.

I think what we need is more guns.  What we need is a weapons giveaway program. It's like one of those government programs. Just come and get anything you want. We're gonna give away all the automatic weapons. All the side-loaders, clip-loaders, shoot-em-backs... Saturday night specials... Colt. 45s, shotguns. Anything you want, chains, knives, straight razors... bottles, brick bats, baseball bats... and big kind of slanted jagged kind of things.

I wanna see a goddamn big shoot 'em up, kill 'em, bang, stab 'em, crush... slice, kill, boilin' oil. Catapults throwin' rocks and shiat and blowin' up. Undercover shiat, yeah. So I wanna see people putting secret things in cars... and cars explodin' and see the people explodin'. I wanna see knife cuttin', slice cuttin' choppin' and blowin' up. Hah-aaah yeah.

That's right. A free weapons give away program. I see it. Gonna solve all these goddamn problems."

Like Switzerland?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/switzerland.asp


Please.  Those neutrals (and neutral is a dirty word in My America) don't have the guts to accomplish what I'm proposing.  They're too busy making cheese and skiing to pull this off.
 
2014-08-20 10:44:04 AM  

Mad_Radhu: As I mentions in a thread yesterday, somehow cops in the rest of the world manage to take down big burly men who are violent all the time without having to shoot them, plus disarming and subduing the occasional knife wielding assailant, and you don't see then getting killed more than US police officers.

Why do our cops suck so badly that they need to fall back on shooting people? Just like health care, it seems like public safety is something else we dump huge amounts of resources at, to the point where it is ridiculous overkill, only to get worse outcomes.


Because we have far more guns in this country than the rest of the world. We also have far more people who want to kill cops.

Accordingly, US cops are forced by criminals to behave like a Mel Brooks' Russian peasant--hope for the best, expect the worst.

That's why the Obama administration spent $25 million dollars to buy NINETY SIX THOUSAND bullet resistant vests for 4000 LOCAL law enforcement agencies in 2012. A year that saw a decrease of 23% in cop deaths.

The same people who claim a cop's job isn't dangerous don't bother to acknowledge the role equipment has played in reducing the number of deaths.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/27/16196680-police-deaths-do wn -23-percent-this-year-across-us
 
2014-08-20 10:44:41 AM  

tricycleracer: Conservatives shoot down any legislation that may help the poors, so, point your blame at the same people who rally around the NRA for votes.


I do.

I am a left-leaning gun owner, and I am not a single-issue voter. I adamantly support universal health care (and believe the ACA doesn't come close to going far enough), including mental care.

I also support private firearm ownership. I am a contributing member of the Liberal Gun Club. I do not give any money or support at all to the NRA.
 
2014-08-20 10:45:10 AM  

Lokkii: Like Switzerland?


Oh, look, it's a truly "regulated" militia.
 
2014-08-20 10:46:34 AM  

Mad_Radhu: As I mentions in a thread yesterday, somehow cops in the rest of the world manage to take down big burly men who are violent all the time without having to shoot them, plus disarming and subduing the occasional knife wielding assailant, and you don't see then getting killed more than US police officers.

Why do our cops suck so badly that they need to fall back on shooting people? Just like health care, it seems like public safety is something else we dump huge amounts of resources at, to the point where it is ridiculous overkill, only to get worse outcomes.


Because for police departments, like the NRA and like many of the NRA's followers, guns are the answer.  They are the cure-all, they are the Ubik.

Guns do everything, they do traffic stops, they do security, they manage to shield the fragile little police officer's body from the ravening hordes.  But... then the hordes are escalating, so they need to escalate, too.

Because of this fetishization, the cops don't actually have to train to use these guns.  That's why their hit rate, when they're firing sheets of lead at even unarmed suspects like Amadou Diallo, is extraordinarily low.  And they get to be lardasses who train in few other ways to detain a subject or diffuse a situation.  Just get more guns!  Strap on a big vest!  Problem solved!
 
2014-08-20 10:49:01 AM  
Jean Charles de Menezes unavailable for comment.
 
2014-08-20 10:49:10 AM  

tricycleracer: TwistedIvory: We get it, you're rabidly anti-gun and you lack the desire to approach root causes rather than symptoms.

Conservatives shoot down any legislation that may help the poors, so, point your blame at the same people who rally around the NRA for votes.


A solid subset of the Tea Party crowd has a strong desire for a 'race war' to break out.  They were eager for it (on this site and elsewhere) after the Trayvon Martin verdict and wound up disappointed.

It's a long game:

1. Increase inequality.
2. Pen in 'the monsters'
3. Take away various rights, like voting
4. Keep plugging away until...
5. Some powderkeg finally bursts allowing...
6. These marvels of genetic design to finally kill somebody, legally.
 
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