Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(NBC News)   St. Louis City Police Chief Sam Dotson sadly gives a lesson in how to handle an officer involved shooting with a direct detailed account of another shooting   (nbcnews.com ) divider line
    More: Scary  
•       •       •

12448 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Aug 2014 at 9:16 PM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2014-08-19 09:34:00 PM  
7 votes:
Transparency goes a long way to helping calm things down.

I would love it if they treated police like pilots. Oh, you had a lethal use of force incident? First things first, lets run a full toxicology on you to make sure you weren't policing while impaired. Then, let's have an outside, impartial body investigate the incident (having your force investigate you is like American Air investigating an American Air crash). And finally, issue an open report that explains what went wrong, and if any improvements can be made (FAA/NTSB style).

Transparency and accountability. Not much to ask from people who are entrusted with lethal weapons by the state.

/All indications are this was justified, but an open report could help confirm it.
2014-08-19 08:33:04 PM  
6 votes:

jasonvatch: cretinbob: jasonvatch: Don't they have tasers?

I don't know about there, but here, generally no. You'll have one officer/deputy who carries one and the rest just have regular sidearms

Nightsticks? Flashlights?

I admit that I wouldn't want to take on a knife-wielding idiot with a nightstick. But two cops? I suspect they received some training in the past - and the baton has enough reach and mass to break the arm holding the knife.

We use drones to kill 'suspects' in other countries. 'Lethal response' seems to be OK here, since nobody biatched when we did it there.

The next red light you run could be a death sentence.


If you are close enough to "break the arm holding the knife," the guy holding the knife is close enough to kill you  with the knife.
2014-08-19 06:21:08 PM  
6 votes:
Don't they have tasers?

What the f*ck is wrong with these cops? Is there an interest on the part of some cops to CREATE a riot? Are they completely stupid, or should we be investigating a conspiracy?
2014-08-19 09:40:31 PM  
5 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Just because somebody is telling you to shoot them doesn't make that the correct choice. You could have taken him, alive, and with minimal injuries to your own force had you not been so damn lazy.


It's easy to armchair but I do think it's a cop's job to get home alive to his family. It's all well and good to say you can take a knife wound, and most of the time you can, but then there's those dang arteries. Or, they could have not waited until he got so close and shot him in the leg, unless that didn't stop him and then they would have incited him to attack them by shooting, etc.

But the contrast in how to handle a shooting is interesting. Quickly bring in supervisors who take charge. Get clear statements from shooters and witnesses. Communicate quickly and transparently to all parties. Here's a second interview after speaking to the press. He's speaking to local residents.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/ferguson-chants-heard-st-louis-cops-shoot-s us pect/story?id=25041218

As sad as this "suicide by cop" of a likely mentally-ill man is, I hope lessons can be learned in how to communicate when undesirable situations arise. I saw an additional video but can't recover the link. It showed Dotson walking into a hostile crowd and repeating his story. There were people interrupting and shouting Ferguson but most people were shushing the shouters to hear what he had to say. You could read their faces. They were very upset, angry, but listening and reluctantly understanding that the cops probably had no real choice. And Dotson was not covering up anything. It is an incredible lesson in contrast.
2014-08-19 09:27:59 PM  
5 votes:

Bazzlex001: Whatever happened to just shooting a guy in the leg? At least TRY for a non-lethal wound


Shooting to wound is never standard procedure, and is frankly a foolish one.

Limbs are harder to hit, so you are way more likely to miss and possibly hit someone in the background

and even if you do hit a limb, they have arteries that can cause you to bleed out within minutes if pierced.

Standard procedure in every organisation that uses guns is shoot to stop/kill. Once you fire that gun, you keep shooting until they are no longer able to pose a threat.

So once they committed to lethal force, they had to stick to it. It is unfortunate they did not, or could not, have pursued a less lethal or non-lethal approach.
2014-08-19 11:18:20 PM  
4 votes:

Bit'O'Gristle: 1. Cops should ...or should be trained to grapple, fence, tase, attempt to disarm, or otherwise let a knife wielding asshole within 10 feet of them, have a cat scan, i think you have lost connection with natural realty.


Seems to work fine in the rest of the world:

i.dailymail.co.uk

i.dailymail.co.uk

i.dailymail.co.uk

And those countries have lower crime rates to boot, so the cops apparently are doing their jobs despite not shooting everyone who seems mildly threatening. So are cops in the US incompetent, or are they just a bunch of scared little pussies wearing big-boy uniforms?
2014-08-19 09:48:40 PM  
4 votes:
and of course if he got tazered and then fell and cracked his head open, people would be yelling about why they didn't try some other method.
2014-08-19 09:28:04 PM  
4 votes:
Also, this is as good a place as any to drop this:  http://nikaharper.tumblr.com/post/95062141305/proud

"My grandfather is a retired LAPD officer. His badge is heavy, I've held it in my child hands.
He lives in Downey CA, which if you don't know, stopped being such a nice place as the 70's era houses suggest. About 15 years ago, he heard someone stealing his car from the driveway.
It was an Oldsmobile Toronado, old thing, boat-like car that we laughed at. Ash trays in the arm rests, remember those? This car was all of it. It was a joyride waiting to happen.
My grandpa gets his gun and goes outside, to see the car backing up into the road. Unfortunately, the driver went the wrong way towards a cul-de-sac, and had to double back. My grandpa, pistol in hand, walks into the street and points the gun at the car as it comes back down the street.
The car was not going to stop. He jumped out of the way.
We asked him, "You caught someone stealing your car, why didn't you shoot?"
He replied, "I didn't keep my badge for 30 years by shooting people." "
2014-08-19 09:24:14 PM  
4 votes:
Whatever happened to just shooting a guy in the leg? At least TRY for a non-lethal wound
2014-08-19 06:16:31 PM  
4 votes:
Jaysus.

It has to be every good cop's nightmare to have an encounter like this. Poor everybody involved.
2014-08-19 09:25:36 PM  
3 votes:
Suicide by cop in the worst possible area, at the worst possible time.
2014-08-19 08:52:23 PM  
3 votes:
This sounds justified, at least from the facts already out.

Horrible timing, however.
2014-08-19 11:30:37 PM  
2 votes:

21-7-b: to be fair, in your middle pic the situation looks to have the potential to go very pear-shaped for the cops


Still, cops in countries like the UK deal with knife-weilding assailants all day in and out and don't feel the need to go all Hot Fuzz on everyone. What makes us special where people can't be disarmed non-leathally or an unarmed man can't be subdued? All of this non-lethal stuff that everyone says is unworkable seems to actually work all over the world.

What gives?
2014-08-19 10:59:38 PM  
2 votes:

jasonvatch: cretinbob: jasonvatch: Don't they have tasers?

I don't know about there, but here, generally no. You'll have one officer/deputy who carries one and the rest just have regular sidearms

Nightsticks? Flashlights?

I admit that I wouldn't want to take on a knife-wielding idiot with a nightstick. But two cops? I suspect they received some training in the past - and the baton has enough reach and mass to break the arm holding the knife.

We use drones to kill 'suspects' in other countries. 'Lethal response' seems to be OK here, since nobody biatched when we did it there.

The next red light you run could be a death sentence.


The reason cops have Tasers and pepper spray is partially due to the fact that, in the 60's and early 70's, people became disgusted and alarmed at the visible bruising created when cops used batons to effect a takedown of a combative suspect. That, and the fact that the PR-24 sidehandle baton was insanely lethal, even (or especially) in the hands of a trained user. So cops were gradually switched over to the "less-lethal" Mace, pepper spray and Taser, which are not particularly "less" lethal, but leave pleasingly fewer visible marks on a suspect. Nobody saw a suspect on his knees gagging from a liberal dose of pepper spray, and once in holding he cleaned right up; and in the early days, Tasers were finicky and had a limited range and were easily blocked by heavy clothing (and both prongs had to make contact for the current to be effective) and were only used in lieu of pulling a gun and blowing the suspect away.

Nowadays, of course, people have video cameras on their cell phones, so we can see people retching in agony from having pepper spray schpritzed down the gullet, or dying from multiple shocks from the much improved Tasers we have today; plus, both are being used not for last-resort-before-shooting methods of takedown as they were intended, but for first-level compliance ("Get out of the car or I'll Tase you").

In a better world, where the general public didn't believe that criminals deserve what they get up to and including a bullet in the back merely for property damage (and if you don't believe that, peruse some past threads right here on Fark), and where the public didn't screech about higher taxes for training police, AND about actually applying stringent hiring requirements to police same as everyone else AND about holding those actually responsible for policing the cops for wrongdoing (the District Attorney's office, not the cops, just so you know)...in that world, police would be properly trained in crisis management, verbal methods of personal and crowd control, and other ways of managing a situation besides TASER TASER TASER.

Too bad we don't live in that world, but there you go. It's completely doable, but neither the right nor the left wants to do it.
2014-08-19 10:32:39 PM  
2 votes:
Good lord....here on Fark...

fc06.deviantart.net


If you think that

1. Cops should ...or should be trained to grapple, fence, tase, attempt to disarm, or otherwise let a knife wielding asshole within 10 feet of them, have a cat scan, i think you have lost connection with natural realty.

2. Shoot him in the leg, the arm, talk to him, or do other things to a man who is coming at you with a knife, again, get a cat scan...you have something wrong with your brain.

3. use multiple officers to pile on him, or, as has been stated., sit in the squad car until he goes away, seriously, you have no idea of self protection, police work, or common sense. Get a mri.

4. shoot him with bean bag rounds, or any other non lethal weapon that is supposed to gain compliance. Sounds good, but running at cops with a knife is threatening them with a lethal weapon, and is met with lethal force. Maybe they should have asked him to slow down, so they could get some of those non lethal items out of the trunk? Because they had all day to deal with him you know, not just seconds.

if you think any of these things are or should have been valid alternatives, check yourself into the nearest reality clinic, i hear they can help now.
2014-08-19 10:16:40 PM  
2 votes:

Yogimus: No, really. That is slightly graphic. Only slightly.


Fark off. And fark your argument. I could give a shiat less about your farking point.

Slightly graphic is grainy surveillance footage of 3 robbers jumping a shop owner in a blur of shiatty frame rate and resolution. Slightly graphic is three people carrying a fight out of frame, and two people coming back in frame. Slighly graphic is a body lying in a street 30 feet away.

Slightly graphic is not well lit medical shots of people farking flayed open from a knife fight.

Tag your farking links appropriately. I don't mind gore per say but I want to know it's its gore before I farking click on it - the same way I don't like clicking links that say "artistic nudes" and getting "the best of bestiality anal prolapse 7."
2014-08-19 10:07:40 PM  
2 votes:

PanicMan: Litterbox: jasonvatch: Don't they have tasers?

What the f*ck is wrong with these cops? Is there an interest on the part of some cops to CREATE a riot? Are they completely stupid, or should we be investigating a conspiracy.

Wielding a knife is deadly force.  Tasers are not used when the officer is facing deadly force.  Thats when the gun comes out.  Didn't they cover that on "CSI" or whatever cop show you were watching?

On Cops I saw them take down a guy with a samurai sword with an aluminum ladder.  They used it to pin him against the wall and then walk up and take his shiat.

Not saying that would work here, but sometimes you don't need to shoot people, even when they're armed.


Cops don't usually carry ladders.


If someone comes at me with a knife, I am shooting.


In self defense and police training, we were taught that a guy with a knife is far more dangerous than a guy with a gun.


Knives create far more dangerous wounds than guns do. Also a far slower and horrible death.

Tasers were not meant to replace guns, they were meant to replace clubs.
2014-08-19 10:00:00 PM  
2 votes:
Wouldn't the best possible outcome of this and the Michael Brown situation to be that the cops were totally justified in their actions? That they did their jobs correctly and used good judgement, their lethal force was justified?

It's crazy that there are people who seem to be passionately hoping for the exact opposite and would almost never accept, despite any facts presented to them, that maybe these cops did the right thing.

And I say that knowing full well that there are horrible, a-hole, badge wearing muthafarkers out there who have no business doing the job. I've met a few in my days.
2014-08-19 09:54:38 PM  
2 votes:

jasonvatch: cretinbob: jasonvatch: Don't they have tasers?

I don't know about there, but here, generally no. You'll have one officer/deputy who carries one and the rest just have regular sidearms

Nightsticks? Flashlights?

I admit that I wouldn't want to take on a knife-wielding idiot with a nightstick. But two cops? I suspect they received some training in the past - and the baton has enough reach and mass to break the arm holding the knife.

We use drones to kill 'suspects' in other countries. 'Lethal response' seems to be OK here, since nobody biatched when we did it there.

The next red light you run could be a death sentence.


/ i have explained this before, and i guess i have to again.  The cops generally use equal force plus one.  That means, if you are wanting to fight with no weapon, you're getting 1. the mace, or 2. the nightstick, or 3, tased. That is equal force plus one.  if you have a weapon, such as a knife, im not going to fence you with my nightstick, nor am i going to attempt to tase you, as that could fail. (thick clothing..or just miss). If you have a weapon, knife, heavy club, gun, etc....you're getting shot.  That again is equal force plus one. I'm not letting you get that close to me so i can play swords with you having a knife, and me a nightstick.   I have no idea why this is so hard to understand. it's the way all the police departments are trained.  if you want to fight a guy who has a knife and you have a stick, more power to you.
2014-08-19 09:42:37 PM  
2 votes:

jasonvatch: cretinbob: jasonvatch: Don't they have tasers?

I don't know about there, but here, generally no. You'll have one officer/deputy who carries one and the rest just have regular sidearms

Nightsticks? Flashlights?

I admit that I wouldn't want to take on a knife-wielding idiot with a nightstick. But two cops? I suspect they received some training in the past - and the baton has enough reach and mass to break the arm holding the knife.

We use drones to kill 'suspects' in other countries. 'Lethal response' seems to be OK here, since nobody biatched when we did it there.

The next red light you run could be a death sentence.


WTF?  The guy charge a cop armed with a knife.  Is there any question that lethal force was justified?  Are you people really so disconnected from reality?
2014-08-19 09:34:10 PM  
2 votes:

Bazzlex001: Whatever happened to just shooting a guy in the leg? At least TRY for a non-lethal wound


If you are going to shoot you never aim for anything but center mass and never for anything other than to stop, which typically means kill.. Aiming for the leg of a moving person is difficult and chances are you will miss and then he will be on you with the knife. Not saying they should have tried non lethal force. But shooting anything other than center mass is never a good idea.
2014-08-19 09:25:23 PM  
2 votes:
Can we just take the local cops' guns away and give them tasers till this shiat is over? Even if the guy had a knife and was being threatening, shooting people at this point is only making it worse.
2014-08-20 02:10:18 AM  
1 vote:

nyseattitude: Kenny B: It seems that all the links are reruns. On CNN it looks like the media outnumbers the protesters.

These are live
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24e6RfL_jbg

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9649227/events/3301474


Pretty good interview on the second link too. Woman is talking about conflicting orders from Police, their lack of organization and ability to de-escalate simple situations.
2014-08-20 02:07:35 AM  
1 vote:
Much respect for the people of Ferguson tonight.
2014-08-20 01:41:14 AM  
1 vote:
https://twitter.com/AmyKNelson

This is by far the most confused I've seen the cops since I've been here.#Ferguson
2014-08-20 01:38:56 AM  
1 vote:
See, Amnesty International leaving can't be good.
2014-08-20 01:28:13 AM  
1 vote:
Twilight Farkle:
Yes, if he were working with a conventional news network, 99% of what he shoots (and the same goes for IaMB and the MSNBC livefeed) would end up on the cutting room floor in order to get the 90 seconds that actually makes the evening news

Few people enjoy being edited but, there's a point to editing.  I recognize the attraction of live reporting to feed my "need" to know. But   Veruca Salt and I can actually survive the wait. In the meantime, there's still no legitimate excuse for misleading recaps.
2014-08-20 01:12:50 AM  
1 vote:
So Vice is down as well as I Am Mike Brown.  So to speak.

Right when it looked horrifying.
2014-08-20 01:09:08 AM  
1 vote:
A guy just attacked another guy. I think the attacker was a local and the man who he attacked was the New Black Panther leader, Malik Zulu Shabazz. I've read that locals are getting sick and tired of him. According to them, Shabazz on the surface appears trying to maintain order and peace between the cops and the protesters but in reality is trying to incite riots. Here's one article talking about that.

The locals are starting to get real tired of how the media and these outsiders are exploiting the town for their own gain.
2014-08-20 01:08:38 AM  
1 vote:

Elegy: Sounds like just another night in Ferguson at this point...


Actually, in some ways it's much better than previous nights. I really had thought the cops would be following their standard playbook:

1) And/or other actions guy for a few minutes.
2) LRAD
3) Put another line of police behind the crowd.
4) Launch tear gas and smoke, then advance.
2014-08-20 01:07:32 AM  
1 vote:
https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly

Ryan J. Reilly @ryanjreilly  · now
"Get that camera out of my farking face." -- officer who pointed gun at protestors#Ferguson

https://twitter.com/AmyKNelson
Amy K. Nelson @AmyKNelson  · 35s
Media being ordered back to media area, cops fighting w each other over which space is media area. #Ferguson
2014-08-20 01:04:22 AM  
1 vote:

Cyclometh: Now they're trying to corral the media back into their pen.


I hate media being corraled away, but it looks like agitators are targeting the media now as well. And after gunshots, they want media safe. The worst thing that can happen is dead media, the second worst is corralling them away.
2014-08-20 01:00:31 AM  
1 vote:
So, what happens if it turns out the guy with the knife was seriously mentally ill and couldn't even grasp what he was doing? Or are we juts declaring open season on mentally ill people cause it's easier that way?
2014-08-20 01:00:06 AM  
1 vote:

Cyclometh: Ah, here we go with the "and/or other actions" guy.


This is the "If you have stolen roadsigns and are now walking around with them in the street, you may be arrested guy."

I like him more. He is funny.
2014-08-20 12:54:35 AM  
1 vote:
i.imgur.com
2014-08-20 12:02:00 AM  
1 vote:

albatros183: Am I the only one that notices that suicide by cop is only a thing in the US?, I'm pretty sure that says something about how quick on the draw American cops are, or maybe it just says something about Americans.


The rules of engagement are clear about when, where, and to what extent police are authorized to use deadly force.

The rules of engagement don't explain that using deadly force during a larger public protest might be strategically foolish and possibly incite the public towards greater violence, leading to deaths and damages far greater than the initial confrontation. RoE doesn't impart wisdom.

American police training prioritizes applying categorized responses towards irrational people. When a person doesn't fit into a proper category the textbook solution is to use force to make them fit.
2014-08-19 11:59:45 PM  
1 vote:

Fubini: wademh: Hell is where the police are GermanAmerican, the lovers Swiss, the mechanics French, the chefs British, and it is all organized by the Italians.

Are you saying that our modern police force is like the gestapo? If so, I'd urge you read a history book. Try looking under "H" for "holocaust" in the index.


No. When I want to say our police are like the Gestapo, you'll know it, because I'll say our police are like the Gestapo. If that's confusing to you, write it down on a 3x5 index card for reference. File it under S.
2014-08-19 11:12:37 PM  
1 vote:
Anyone watching the IAMB feed? Camera guy had his camera fixed on one spot for a while watching people walk. Looks like a local (black) in a suit stopped and started to talk to a white cop. Apparently, they knew each other in that gave the all to familiar straight guy hug. And they both started talking and laughing getting along swimmingly. Seems like this was not want the camera guy wanted and turned the camera around without hesitation. Can't show cops getting along with the locals. That doesn't get ratings and clicks as much as looters and angry rioters throwing projectiles at the cops.
2014-08-19 11:04:35 PM  
1 vote:

Yogimus: http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/2014/01/band/

Gunshots and knife wounds hover around 75% survival rate with medical attention.

To clarify, the only way a man with a gun makes a man with a knife less dangerous is by shooting the man with a knife. When a superior weapon is introduced, it doesn't make the inferior weapon harmless or less dangerous. The inherent lethality of the inferior weapon does not change.


I do not know enough to be able to guess if this incident was preventable.
However, a police encounter with a man with a knife -- however deranged -- does not necessarily need to end in violence or even non-lethal incapacitation.
De-escalation should always be the primary method of conflict resolution for police. Just because a man is holding a knife and acting erratically, doesn't mean he is planning to act violently. Police in many jurisdictions are trained to talk out those situations as a first resort. Lucky cops have training in how to deal with mental illness etc. Perhaps de-escalation wasn't possible here, maybe the cops didn't have that kind of training, maybe they did and they couldn't get through to the guy, who knows.
But, my lay impression is that cops are becoming less and less hesitant to resort to using deadly force in encounters that would have ended very differently 20 years ago.
/ If I have a choice between taking a knife wound and a bullet wound, I'd go for a knife wound every time.
2014-08-19 11:01:30 PM  
1 vote:
Take a breath here.
Does it really take a degree in psychology to not escalate any situation?
Say, bro? Can you steip back on the curb? If I had be an OUI, I may have hit you.
Just  park it in the shade of the moonlight, a'right?

Hey, bro? You got a light?

But, NOOOooooooooooooo.
You gotta go Barky Fife of 'roids and try to drag the kid in the car like the free candy van is enacting involuntary conscription.

You deal the cards.
You bought the ticket.
2014-08-19 10:59:19 PM  
1 vote:

Yogimus: http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/2014/01/band/

Gunshots and knife wounds hover around 75% survival rate with medical attention.

To clarify, the only way a man with a gun makes a man with a knife less dangerous is by shooting the man with a knife. When a superior weapon is introduced, it doesn't make the inferior weapon harmless or less dangerous. The inherent lethality of the inferior weapon does not change.


If you need an example of how lethal knives can be, look at what the Uighur terrorists/freedom fighters are doing in China with large scale knife attacks.  The scary part about knife attacks in crowded areas is you don't have the gunshots to give warning, merely screaming of people already being stabbed or those running for the lives without a clear idea of what is happening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_2014_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_attack
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/almost-100-killed-during-a tt acks-in-chinas-xinjiang-last-week/article19900534/
2014-08-19 10:53:32 PM  
1 vote:

Cyclometh: jst3p: Caffienatedjedi: There should be no justification using a taser in a situation where lethal force would not be used.

The entire point of a taser is to use it when deadly force is not justified. They were not designed to replace guns, they were designed to replace nightsticks. They are called a "less lethal device" because they are supposed to be used in non-lethal situations, but they sometimes kill.

http://www.law.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/child-page/164097/do c/ slspublic/tasers.pdf

(from the  Recommendations section of that link, certain points bolded by me):

RECOMMENDATIONS

1. The Use of Tasers by Police Officers should be limited to circumstances under
which the use of lethal force would also be permitted.
First, here is a snapshot of the established law on the authorized use of force by
police: Police can always use reasonable, non-deadly force to thwart any crime or to
seize anyone the police officer reasonably believes to be fleeing from the commission of
a crime or attempting to evade a lawful arrest. As for deadly or "lethal" force - usually
defined to mean force intended to or likely to cause either death or grievous bodily harm
- police can use this to prevent completion or commission of a felony only if the felony
is one that normally poses serious physical danger to victims or bystanders (robbery,
rape) but not for other, non-violent felonies. In addition, under the Supreme Court rules
established in Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985), police may only use deadly force
to apprehend or to ensure the arrest of someone fleeing from the commission of a felony
if the office reasonably believes that the fleeing person at the time of flight poses a threat
of death or serious bodily injury to others.


That's nice.

Here is actual policy recommendations:

http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=dis pl ay_arch&article_id=2204&issue_id=92010

Table 1: Use-of-Force Continuum
Suspect resistance                                 Officer use of force

1. No resistance                                           1. Officer presence
2. Verbal noncompliance                              2. Verbal commands
3. Passive resistance                                   3. Hands-on tactics, chemical spray
4. Active resistance                                      4. Intermediate weapons: baton, Taser, strikes, nondeadly force
5. Aggressive resistance                              5. Intermediate weapons, intensified techniques, nondeadly force
6. Deadly-force resistance                           6. Deadly force


Notice Taser shows up well before "deadly force" and the only response to deadly force is deadly force.
2014-08-19 10:48:36 PM  
1 vote:
tasers should in general the same restriction and paperwork as pulling a gun. For all I know, they do. The real difference between the two is how armed (and, perhaps, drugged) your opponent is.

It's like rock paper scissors. Taser+Pepper Spray beats knife, large blunt object beats taser, gun beats all, if you're ready to execute a mentally disturbed person.

Really. this guy that got shot is a total asshole - lets be clear - i mean, atomic levels of criminal douche, and i'm also sure those officers are rattled by it. Guy put people in a position to take life. Bastard. But by killing a mental patient instead of going the extra mile, they failed to serve in the motto of their force. It's tough to reconcile i admit.

So i'm not incriminating the police, i'm just shaking my head, wondering if the real issue is that if we had real time crime stats we could tell how rare this is, but the Cloak of Secrecy the PDs maintain means we generally presume the worst.

Again, where are the cameras? Taser/Wood/Live rounds would all make a lot of sense from a 1st person POV. it's unimaginable, now, that cops aren't showing the darn things on their own cable channel. They are proud to serve, im sure, although none want to become public figures for their efforts any more than normal people do. That's another conversation.
2014-08-19 10:36:22 PM  
1 vote:

jasonvatch: I admit that I wouldn't want to take on a knife-wielding idiot with a nightstick. But two cops? I suspect they received some training in the past - and the baton has enough reach and mass to break the arm holding the knife.


You know what they say about knife fights? The winner is the one that dies in the ambulance.

You've got better odds of surviving a bullet wound than surviving a knife wound. It's not the responsibility of the police to put themselves in mortal danger to avoid killing psychopaths.
ecl
2014-08-19 10:28:30 PM  
1 vote:
IaMB stream for those too lazy to search...

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930
2014-08-19 10:28:14 PM  
1 vote:
If you don't shoot him, he potentially kills the officers or bystanders.  That distance, you can't reliably holster your gun, go for the taser as the suspect approaches and if it doesn't have the effect, you may be dead or someone else may be dead.  A knife is a lethal weapon in nearly all circumstances.  Knives defeat the police bullet resistant vests, if you wait and see how the scene develops you may be dead or someone else may be dead. It is an officers responsibility to take that shot, not try and play hero which could get themselves killed, their partner killed, or a bystander killed.  If you believe the officer should have attempted to disarm them in hand to hand fighting, you have watched too many movies.  There are only losers in a knife fight, some lose more than others.

It was a suicide by cop, pure and simple.  The timing is horrible, but really there is never a good time to kill a suspect.  If the public cannot see this act as justified, chances are they are completely unreasonable and live in a fantasy world where all police officers must act like Chuck Norris  and simply roundhouse their way to a solution.
2014-08-19 10:22:46 PM  
1 vote:

RogermcAllen: So I don't have a good frame of reference yet tonight.  Where is KARG in relation to yesterday, and where are the police?


I've been following it, seems to be down at the moment. It was following a march earlier, with just a few police with regular uniforms and long batons walking around. Seemed pretty quiet.
2014-08-19 10:17:19 PM  
1 vote:

LoneWolf343: Smeggy Smurf: moothemagiccow: Smeggy Smurf: El_Perro: jasonvatch: cretinbob: jasonvatch: Don't they have tasers?

I don't know about there, but here, generally no. You'll have one officer/deputy who carries one and the rest just have regular sidearms

Nightsticks? Flashlights?

I admit that I wouldn't want to take on a knife-wielding idiot with a nightstick. But two cops? I suspect they received some training in the past - and the baton has enough reach and mass to break the arm holding the knife.

We use drones to kill 'suspects' in other countries. 'Lethal response' seems to be OK here, since nobody biatched when we did it there.

The next red light you run could be a death sentence.

If you are close enough to "break the arm holding the knife," the guy holding the knife is close enough to kill you  with the knife.

Are you aware there are these things called instructors that can teach you how to disarm somebody?  If not, please refer to your nearest source of internet, go to the Google search engine and in the little box for searching input the words "Krav Maga".  Click on the links, read the information, watch the videos and then return to this thread with an informed opinion.  Otherwise you will lack the necessary words to at least appear slightly more than a moron.

/This message brought to you by the council to mock and ridicule the silly

Do the instructors train on real crackheads with real knives? Otherwise it's farking useless

Yeah, how do people train for combat?  Gee I guess no Marine has ever learned to kill with his hands.  No martial artist in history has ever been capable of taking a blade from a punk.

1.) Marines have significantly more MA training than police, and 2.) a Marine is only going to use hand to hand when he is out of ammo, can't get anymore, or you are way too close, and 3.) the Marine's training is for lethal use of martial arts. Your comparison is bullshiat.


MCMAP is also focused mostly on using your weapon as well. Training is using fists are only a last resort measure, and the field manual recommends against it but understands it is a natural instinctual reaction. Elbows and legs are to augment knife or rifle being used as a club/spear.

Very unlikely to catch a Marine without their rifle or their knife, unless they have EASed.

Though Police get some good martial arts experience, at least where I am from. Friend of mine is a Karate Black Belt, and he helps train police classes. Heard some really neat stories from him. Sounds fun playing belligerent suspect. Situations varied from bar brawl to domestic abuse. They were trained to de-escalate or subdue physically. Normally, they didn't have an oppurtunity to reach for a simulated taser or service gun.
2014-08-19 10:15:54 PM  
1 vote:

sobriquet by any other name: of course the obvious option of putting a car between the officers and the perp - or even backing away refusing to be agents of suicide until a third party could tase him..

well lets just say the whole donut-meme got a big boost out of this. I understand being charged by a guy with a knife - i really do - but the way the cops tell it, they had lots of time to figure out something just by getting in their cop car and locking the door. Kid was obviously mentally distressed and the cops did exactly what the guy wanted.

I dont call that winning, no matter their reasons.. i would have been very impressed to hear our boys in blue had gloves to go with their body armor (or does that just make too much sense?)


no, the obvious solution is to send him away with more holes than he came with. You are considering out of the box solutions.  Ask yourself this: What did society LOSE by the removal of this particular bag of crazy? What did it gain?


/Who gets to choose?
//The guy you threatened to knife. He gets to choose.
///His decision is final in this matter.
2014-08-19 10:15:04 PM  
1 vote:

NickelP: jasonvatch: cretinbob: jasonvatch: Don't they have tasers?

I don't know about there, but here, generally no. You'll have one officer/deputy who carries one and the rest just have regular sidearms

Nightsticks? Flashlights?

I admit that I wouldn't want to take on a knife-wielding idiot with a nightstick. But two cops? I suspect they received some training in the past - and the baton has enough reach and mass to break the arm holding the knife.

We use drones to kill 'suspects' in other countries. 'Lethal response' seems to be OK here, since nobody biatched when we did it there.

The next red light you run could be a death sentence.

I got shot at for cutting in line in front of a cop at McDonalds this morning, then when I complained the departments military handyman down TANK raped my cat.  This shiat is just getting ridiculous.

Lets do this thing buddy. Do you have a catchy chant we can use?  We will both go scream it out the window for 5 minutes and then we will see real change.


thelifeofjwo.files.wordpress.com
2014-08-19 10:12:34 PM  
1 vote:
FTA: The chief said that the officers repeatedly ordered the 23-year-old man to drop the knife and drew their weapons after he refused. The chief said the man told the police: "Shoot me now. Kill me now."

i1182.photobucket.com
2014-08-19 10:08:48 PM  
1 vote:

LoneWolf343: Smeggy Smurf: moothemagiccow: Smeggy Smurf: El_Perro: jasonvatch: cretinbob: jasonvatch: Don't they have tasers?

I don't know about there, but here, generally no. You'll have one officer/deputy who carries one and the rest just have regular sidearms

Nightsticks? Flashlights?

I admit that I wouldn't want to take on a knife-wielding idiot with a nightstick. But two cops? I suspect they received some training in the past - and the baton has enough reach and mass to break the arm holding the knife.

We use drones to kill 'suspects' in other countries. 'Lethal response' seems to be OK here, since nobody biatched when we did it there.

The next red light you run could be a death sentence.

If you are close enough to "break the arm holding the knife," the guy holding the knife is close enough to kill you  with the knife.

Are you aware there are these things called instructors that can teach you how to disarm somebody?  If not, please refer to your nearest source of internet, go to the Google search engine and in the little box for searching input the words "Krav Maga".  Click on the links, read the information, watch the videos and then return to this thread with an informed opinion.  Otherwise you will lack the necessary words to at least appear slightly more than a moron.

/This message brought to you by the council to mock and ridicule the silly

Do the instructors train on real crackheads with real knives? Otherwise it's farking useless

Yeah, how do people train for combat?  Gee I guess no Marine has ever learned to kill with his hands.  No martial artist in history has ever been capable of taking a blade from a punk.

1.) Marines have significantly more MA training than police, and 2.) a Marine is only going to use hand to hand when he is out of ammo, can't get anymore, or you are way too close, and 3.) the Marine's training is for lethal use of martial arts. Your comparison is bullshiat.


Oh, and the big thing worthy of note, even with all of their expert training, Marines still manage to get killed anyway!
2014-08-19 10:07:04 PM  
1 vote:

moothemagiccow: MadeInDetroit: moothemagiccow: MadeInDetroit: Sadly there is no money left in their budget for tasers. Those tanks, cool camo, body armor, and endless supply of tear gas/smoke grenades are not cheap. Besides who signs up to use non lethal force when you got this cool gun?

Yeah I remember everyone farking loved it when cops started being armed with tasers. We watched that shiat on youtube and laughed and laughed. "Don't tase me bro." No one got upset about that shiat at all. We didn't freak out even a little when some kid with a heart condition bit it.

And now everyone loves tasers. Is the desire to biatch online or just to eliminate every police force? Seriously, what the fark is the gun for? If you wanna question one farking thing, fark the farking tanks. No one's been killed with a tank or a tear gas grenade yet. You wanna get mad about something? Get mad at the thing that actually kills people, the thing that every cop on duty wears. I'm sure you'll probably get pissed at the patrol car before you even think of questioning that every farking beat cop has a gun.

great speech but only one problem. Police in the rest of the country are trained on matching appropriate force with force with most never having to fire a weapon one time on duty in their careers. You have nightsticks, pepper spray, mace, flash grenades, rubber bullets, bean bags, LRAD, extensive hand to hand training to disarm a knife, or wait for it...talking down the situation using all four years of the criminal justice degree you earned. The rest of the police across the country somehow are able to do this and excel at their job protecting the country.

Hahahahaha you think this is an isolated incident? This is just the newest one you heard about. I'm sorry I couldn't get you to be a better advocate. I could really give a shiat that cops wear guns and occasionally use them.


Maybe not isolated but definitely rare and unusual. Most people will put the knife down when cops draw their guns.

Does anyone really think that most cops are ninjaing knives out of people's hands on a daily basis?
2014-08-19 10:06:52 PM  
1 vote:

Smeggy Smurf: moothemagiccow: Smeggy Smurf: El_Perro: jasonvatch: cretinbob: jasonvatch: Don't they have tasers?

I don't know about there, but here, generally no. You'll have one officer/deputy who carries one and the rest just have regular sidearms

Nightsticks? Flashlights?

I admit that I wouldn't want to take on a knife-wielding idiot with a nightstick. But two cops? I suspect they received some training in the past - and the baton has enough reach and mass to break the arm holding the knife.

We use drones to kill 'suspects' in other countries. 'Lethal response' seems to be OK here, since nobody biatched when we did it there.

The next red light you run could be a death sentence.

If you are close enough to "break the arm holding the knife," the guy holding the knife is close enough to kill you  with the knife.

Are you aware there are these things called instructors that can teach you how to disarm somebody?  If not, please refer to your nearest source of internet, go to the Google search engine and in the little box for searching input the words "Krav Maga".  Click on the links, read the information, watch the videos and then return to this thread with an informed opinion.  Otherwise you will lack the necessary words to at least appear slightly more than a moron.

/This message brought to you by the council to mock and ridicule the silly

Do the instructors train on real crackheads with real knives? Otherwise it's farking useless

Yeah, how do people train for combat?  Gee I guess no Marine has ever learned to kill with his hands.  No martial artist in history has ever been capable of taking a blade from a punk.


1.) Marines have significantly more MA training than police, and 2.) a Marine is only going to use hand to hand when he is out of ammo, can't get anymore, or you are way too close, and 3.) the Marine's training is for lethal use of martial arts. Your comparison is bullshiat.
2014-08-19 10:06:41 PM  
1 vote:

Elegy: Yogimus: Slightly graphic.

[i.imgur.com image 750x360]

[i.imgur.com image 750x487]


No, really. That is slightly graphic. Only slightly. Try being a 1st responder to a knife attack, and you will see significantly less "slightly".  (did you know cheeks are orange on the inside?)

Pull a knife, you get shot. Fail to drop the knife on your way down? fark you, I am not approaching you for 1st aid. Good luck, hope you make it, and if not, hope you're insured.
2014-08-19 10:06:15 PM  
1 vote:
I have played Double Dragon enough to know the cops really only needed to do a jump kick on the suspect. Such an attack is enough to cause said suspect to drop his weapon...the officer will land in a crouching position, but he will be able to stand before the suspect does and thus be the first to retrieve the weapon.

Just saying...
2014-08-19 10:02:20 PM  
1 vote:

HeathenHealer: Wouldn't the best possible outcome of this and the Michael Brown situation to be that the cops were totally justified in their actions? That they did their jobs correctly and used good judgement, their lethal force was justified?

It's crazy that there are people who seem to be passionately hoping for the exact opposite and would almost never accept, despite any facts presented to them, that maybe these cops did the right thing.

And I say that knowing full well that there are horrible, a-hole, badge wearing muthafarkers out there who have no business doing the job. I've met a few in my days.


Don't you understand? This isn't about that anymore. Its about the militarization of police. Or the hold of the man on society. Or student loan debt. Or, well, hell, what is your personal pocket issue, give me a few minutes and I'll figure out a way to tangently attach it to this.
2014-08-19 10:00:35 PM  
1 vote:
When you pull a knife on a gun, you get a gun.

Play stupid games, get stupid prizes.
2014-08-19 09:59:19 PM  
1 vote:

Smeggy Smurf: El_Perro: jasonvatch: cretinbob: jasonvatch: Don't they have tasers?

I don't know about there, but here, generally no. You'll have one officer/deputy who carries one and the rest just have regular sidearms

Nightsticks? Flashlights?

I admit that I wouldn't want to take on a knife-wielding idiot with a nightstick. But two cops? I suspect they received some training in the past - and the baton has enough reach and mass to break the arm holding the knife.

We use drones to kill 'suspects' in other countries. 'Lethal response' seems to be OK here, since nobody biatched when we did it there.

The next red light you run could be a death sentence.

If you are close enough to "break the arm holding the knife," the guy holding the knife is close enough to kill you  with the knife.

Are you aware there are these things called instructors that can teach you how to disarm somebody?  If not, please refer to your nearest source of internet, go to the Google search engine and in the little box for searching input the words "Krav Maga".  Click on the links, read the information, watch the videos and then return to this thread with an informed opinion.  Otherwise you will lack the necessary words to at least appear slightly more than a moron.

/This message brought to you by the council to mock and ridicule the silly


Back in the times of the samurai, the real samurai and not the romantic crap that popped up in the Edo period, it was considered embarrassing to be an expert swordsman, because being an expert swordsman meant you were terrible with your bow and your spear.
2014-08-19 09:57:53 PM  
1 vote:
Are we seriously arguing how to handle a suicide by cop?
2014-08-19 09:57:40 PM  
1 vote:

Ctrl-Alt-Del: I dunno - seems like he only has to go down one or two houses to find an innocent bystander to kill. But yeah, cops should just wait it out in the car. That lady two doors down is a biatch anyway


Its her fault for not having a knight stick or krav maga training. Both are readily available on the internet.
2014-08-19 09:55:05 PM  
1 vote:
phillbarron.files.wordpress.com
2014-08-19 09:54:59 PM  
1 vote:

Bazzlex001: Regardless, this brings to light a better question than that: why the Fark do these police departments have mine-resistant APCs, but a negligible amount of tasers? -_-


A quick google tells me that a tazer and a few rounds for it costs about a grand. Now you need to train your cops to use it. Now you need to maintain them, replace spent\bad rounds, keep guys current on its use, etc. All for something that isn't going to be used that often.

The things I've been seeing the cops ride around in aren't mine resistant apc's. They are basically chevy suburbans with a bunch of shiat welded to them. While I'm sure they don't come cheap, they are more or less one time costs. While they aren't going to be employed regularly, when they are they will likely be the difference in a situation.

A tazer is more for a guy is resisting arrest\lawful orders than charging you with a knife, because a tazer isn't going to work all the time.
2014-08-19 09:54:51 PM  
1 vote:

Smeggy Smurf: El_Perro: jasonvatch: cretinbob: jasonvatch: Don't they have tasers?

I don't know about there, but here, generally no. You'll have one officer/deputy who carries one and the rest just have regular sidearms

Nightsticks? Flashlights?

I admit that I wouldn't want to take on a knife-wielding idiot with a nightstick. But two cops? I suspect they received some training in the past - and the baton has enough reach and mass to break the arm holding the knife.

We use drones to kill 'suspects' in other countries. 'Lethal response' seems to be OK here, since nobody biatched when we did it there.

The next red light you run could be a death sentence.

If you are close enough to "break the arm holding the knife," the guy holding the knife is close enough to kill you  with the knife.

Are you aware there are these things called instructors that can teach you how to disarm somebody?  If not, please refer to your nearest source of internet, go to the Google search engine and in the little box for searching input the words "Krav Maga".  Click on the links, read the information, watch the videos and then return to this thread with an informed opinion.  Otherwise you will lack the necessary words to at least appear slightly more than a moron.

/This message brought to you by the council to mock and ridicule the silly


Do the instructors train on real crackheads with real knives? Otherwise it's farking useless
2014-08-19 09:54:28 PM  
1 vote:

Smeggy Smurf: El_Perro: jasonvatch: cretinbob: jasonvatch: Don't they have tasers?

I don't know about there, but here, generally no. You'll have one officer/deputy who carries one and the rest just have regular sidearms

Nightsticks? Flashlights?

I admit that I wouldn't want to take on a knife-wielding idiot with a nightstick. But two cops? I suspect they received some training in the past - and the baton has enough reach and mass to break the arm holding the knife.

We use drones to kill 'suspects' in other countries. 'Lethal response' seems to be OK here, since nobody biatched when we did it there.

The next red light you run could be a death sentence.

If you are close enough to "break the arm holding the knife," the guy holding the knife is close enough to kill you  with the knife.

Are you aware there are these things called instructors that can teach you how to disarm somebody?  If not, please refer to your nearest source of internet, go to the Google search engine and in the little box for searching input the words "Krav Maga".  Click on the links, read the information, watch the videos and then return to this thread with an informed opinion.  Otherwise you will lack the necessary words to at least appear slightly more than a moron.

/This message brought to you by the council to mock and ridicule the silly


So ninja cops?
2014-08-19 09:51:51 PM  
1 vote:

mediablitz: ginandbacon: Jaysus.

It has to be every good cop's nightmare to have an encounter like this. Poor everybody involved.

30 or so cops. Tazers and mace. NO OTHER OPTION but to shoot to kill a man with a KNIFE. And nothing but apologists.

This is what America has become and why other countries look at us like we are crazy.


They waited way longer than what was reasonable before opening fire. You people looking for any reason to kill a pig are he crazy ones.
2014-08-19 09:51:15 PM  
1 vote:

Dog Man: If you have a knife within 21 feet of me, you're close enough to kill me because, generally, you can rush me before I can draw and fire accurately. Knife wounds are bad, they can easily server tendons and cause permanent damage and quickly lead to shock. If you're within 21 ft, you're likely to get shot if you don't drop the knife. We don't aim at limbs, we aim at center mass; a nice big target. Even a shot to the arm or leg can bleed you out. Sometimes tasers don't work and OC spray can be resisted or have no effect. Sometimes you have no choice but to shoot.


Yep -- I think it was an officer with the SLC police dept who concluded that an attacker could cover that 21 feet in 1.5 seconds. Not much time to react and defend your self.
2014-08-19 09:50:15 PM  
1 vote:

img2.wikia.nocookie.net

2014-08-19 09:48:12 PM  
1 vote:

jasonvatch: I admit that I wouldn't want to take on a knife-wielding idiot with a nightstick. But two cops? I suspect they received some training in the past - and the baton has enough reach and mass to break the arm holding the knife.


You clearly have no training or experience in these matters at all, or else you wouldn't say that. If you are in a knife fight, you are losing. It doesn't matter if your weapon has a bit more reach and you have a bit more training. If you are in a knife fight, you are losing. A little MA training doesn't make you invincible, and what cops learn is minimal. If you are in a knife fight, you are losing. Real life ain't like the movies.
2014-08-19 09:41:33 PM  
1 vote:
If you have a knife within 21 feet of me, you're close enough to kill me because, generally, you can rush me before I can draw and fire accurately. Knife wounds are bad, they can easily server tendons and cause permanent damage and quickly lead to shock. If you're within 21 ft, you're likely to get shot if you don't drop the knife. We don't aim at limbs, we aim at center mass; a nice big target. Even a shot to the arm or leg can bleed you out. Sometimes tasers don't work and OC spray can be resisted or have no effect. Sometimes you have no choice but to shoot.
2014-08-19 09:38:38 PM  
1 vote:

dstrick44: What happened to tasers? Do they only use those on handcuffed autistic children? A wacko with a knife is the reason tasers were invented.
Or so we were told.


When all you have is a hammer...
2014-08-19 09:35:24 PM  
1 vote:

ginandbacon: Jaysus.

It has to be every good cop's nightmare to have an encounter like this. Poor everybody involved.


Yeah people act like cops enjoy it, the two that I know that shot people still have nightmares about it and wonder if they did the right thing.

Also was the whole cop had a broken eye socket bullshiat or are people ignoring that point?
2014-08-19 09:32:08 PM  
1 vote:

jasonvatch: Don't they have tasers?

What the f*ck is wrong with these cops? Is there an interest on the part of some cops to CREATE a riot? Are they completely stupid, or should we be investigating a conspiracy?


jasonvatch: cretinbob: jasonvatch: Don't they have tasers?

I don't know about there, but here, generally no. You'll have one officer/deputy who carries one and the rest just have regular sidearms

Nightsticks? Flashlights?

I admit that I wouldn't want to take on a knife-wielding idiot with a nightstick. But two cops? I suspect they received some training in the past - and the baton has enough reach and mass to break the arm holding the knife.

We use drones to kill 'suspects' in other countries. 'Lethal response' seems to be OK here, since nobody biatched when we did it there.

The next red light you run could be a death sentence.


The My Little Pony Killer: Just because somebody is telling you to shoot them doesn't make that the correct choice. You could have taken him, alive, and with minimal injuries to your own force had you not been so damn lazy.


I'd like to know what size the knife is.

But 4 feet isn't much space for the officers,  and if they didn't have tasers well then bullets it is then because that's pretty close for someone to a cop with a knife.
2014-08-19 09:27:15 PM  
1 vote:

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Sure, they could have tried to subdue a man with a knife using less than lethal force like a taser or OC spray. Sure that might have been prudent considering the on-going demonstrations. But what if the man was secretly a ninja who was about to flip out on them? Better just to shoot.



They tried the least lethal force of all: verbal commands.
2014-08-19 09:25:55 PM  
1 vote:

Litterbox: jasonvatch: Don't they have tasers?

What the f*ck is wrong with these cops? Is there an interest on the part of some cops to CREATE a riot? Are they completely stupid, or should we be investigating a conspiracy.

Wielding a knife is deadly force.  Tasers are not used when the officer is facing deadly force.  Thats when the gun comes out.  Didn't they cover that on "CSI" or whatever cop show you were watching?


On Cops I saw them take down a guy with a samurai sword with an aluminum ladder.  They used it to pin him against the wall and then walk up and take his shiat.

Not saying that would work here, but sometimes you don't need to shoot people, even when they're armed.
2014-08-19 09:21:03 PM  
1 vote:
I mean, shiat, you had to have gone through some sort of training to even make it onto the force, right? Surely they taught you better ways of handling yourselves. Christ.
2014-08-19 09:19:24 PM  
1 vote:
Just because somebody is telling you to shoot them doesn't make that the correct choice. You could have taken him, alive, and with minimal injuries to your own force had you not been so damn lazy.
2014-08-19 09:03:09 PM  
1 vote:

Litterbox: jasonvatch: Don't they have tasers?

What the f*ck is wrong with these cops? Is there an interest on the part of some cops to CREATE a riot? Are they completely stupid, or should we be investigating a conspiracy.

Wielding a knife is deadly force.  Tasers are not used when the officer is facing deadly force.  Thats when the gun comes out.  Didn't they cover that on "CSI" or whatever cop show you were watching?


Tasers are supposed to be a substitute for deadly force. Though I've been hearing not all cops have tasers, so its possible they didn't have that option.
2014-08-19 08:29:38 PM  
1 vote:

jasonvatch: Don't they have tasers?

What the f*ck is wrong with these cops? Is there an interest on the part of some cops to CREATE a riot? Are they completely stupid, or should we be investigating a conspiracy.

Wielding a knife is deadly force.  Tasers are not used when the officer is facing deadly force.  Thats when the gun comes out.  Didn't they cover that on "CSI" or whatever cop show you were watching?

2014-08-19 08:13:05 PM  
1 vote:

Pocket Ninja: Yes. The intelligent response here is to wonder why police officers didn't team up and use their flashlights or billy clubs to disarm a knife-wielding suspect.


He looked like he was on something. Toxicology tests will show he had monster energy and could not be subdued by mere flashlights.
2014-08-19 08:02:32 PM  
1 vote:
Yes. The intelligent response here is to wonder why police officers didn't team up and use their flashlights or billy clubs to disarm a knife-wielding suspect.
2014-08-19 06:48:01 PM  
1 vote:

cretinbob: jasonvatch: Don't they have tasers?

I don't know about there, but here, generally no. You'll have one officer/deputy who carries one and the rest just have regular sidearms


Nightsticks? Flashlights?

I admit that I wouldn't want to take on a knife-wielding idiot with a nightstick. But two cops? I suspect they received some training in the past - and the baton has enough reach and mass to break the arm holding the knife.

We use drones to kill 'suspects' in other countries. 'Lethal response' seems to be OK here, since nobody biatched when we did it there.

The next red light you run could be a death sentence.
2014-08-19 06:29:16 PM  
1 vote:
Recently released dispatcher tapes has police officer asking for a non white officer to respond.
 
Displayed 83 of 83 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report