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(Crooks & Liars)   "In any case, neither the employee nor the store owner called law enforcement-something that would surely happen if Brown committed a "strong-arm robbery."- Video that may show Michael Brown paid for the Cigarillos   (crooksandliars.com) divider line 349
    More: Asinine, ShareThis  
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3774 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Aug 2014 at 9:42 AM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-19 07:57:22 AM  
Either way. Nothing justifies the shooting.
Yet.
 
2014-08-19 08:24:09 AM  
I understand that there's a general rule in law that you can't libel the dead... but also that there are a few peculiar exception cases in some particular states. I guess that the Ferguson police chief doesn't believe the old saying that when you find yourself at the bottom of a hole you should stop digging.
 
2014-08-19 08:27:05 AM  
Imagine how terrifying that kid must have been, that the convenience store clerk was afraid to call the police even after he left.
 
2014-08-19 08:36:40 AM  
Facts schmacts. You can use "facts" to prove anything.
 
2014-08-19 09:27:42 AM  

Epic Fap Session: Imagine how terrifying that kid must have been, that the convenience store clerk was afraid to call the police even after he left.


I really like this one. The police need to go with this one next.
 
2014-08-19 09:37:44 AM  
Are people still arguing about the MacGuffin?
 
2014-08-19 09:45:17 AM  
"If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don't care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him."

-RAND PAUL
 
2014-08-19 09:45:42 AM  
He was just giving the store owner a loving choke on the way out.
 
2014-08-19 09:46:21 AM  
"Strong-arm robbery?  That's not a strong-arm robbery.  Just kids having fun."
 
2014-08-19 09:46:41 AM  
I guess when the clerk tried to lock the front door, he deserved being roughed up.
 
2014-08-19 09:47:35 AM  
You don't call the cops on a petty theft because they really aren't going to do shiat.

So where does that leave the Ferguson PD and Officer Wilson?
 
2014-08-19 09:47:40 AM  

palladiate: Epic Fap Session: Imagine how terrifying that kid must have been, that the convenience store clerk was afraid to call the police even after he left.

I really like this one. The police need to go with this one next.


He obviously threatened to come back with DOZENS of black people if the guy called the cops.  The clerk is frightened to this day, so much that he can't even talk to the police or media.  Don't bother calling him yourself, you can take my word for it.
 
2014-08-19 09:47:57 AM  

Somacandra: Are people still arguing about the MacGuffin?


It's easier than admitting that they knee jerked their way into defending asshats losing control...
 
2014-08-19 09:48:03 AM  
Oh, the schadenfreude if this is true.
 
2014-08-19 09:48:05 AM  
maybe it was an abamadrone that stole the cigarillos

really makes u think
 
2014-08-19 09:48:21 AM  

Somacandra: Are people still arguing about the MacGuffin?


Plenty of Farkers embraced this "crime" as part of his "state of mind" when confronted by the cop for jaywalking. I wonder what horseshiate character assassination tack they'll come up with next.
 
2014-08-19 09:48:48 AM  

Epic Fap Session: Imagine how terrifying that kid must have been, that the convenience store clerk was afraid to call the police even after he left.


So who DID call the cops?
 
2014-08-19 09:50:01 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: He was just giving the store owner a loving choke on the way out.


If you're walking out of a store and a clerk puts his hands on you, how are you going to respond?

In this thread:  Every white person will claim they'd NEVER respond physically if a store clerk/salesman tried to shove them or manhandle them.

In every other thread:  Every internet tough guy would list all the bones they'd break on the register jockey for DARING touch them.
 
2014-08-19 09:50:36 AM  

vudukungfu: Either way. Nothing justifies the shooting.
Yet.


When being charged by a raging bull, it is OK to defend yourself.
 
2014-08-19 09:50:41 AM  

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: Epic Fap Session: Imagine how terrifying that kid must have been, that the convenience store clerk was afraid to call the police even after he left.

So who DID call the cops?


A customer you dolt.  It's in the article.  That you didn't read.
 
2014-08-19 09:51:02 AM  

Jackson Herring: maybe it was an abamadrone that stole the cigarillos

really makes u think


I got a flyer in the mail that said that Omaba used taxpayer dollars to pay for all my tobacco products and I should go to 7-11 and help myself, but I think the flyer was probably meant for a black man and got delivered to me by mistake
 
2014-08-19 09:51:55 AM  
But, remember, no bullets should have stopped him. HE WAS ON WEED!!!!!111!!!!
 
2014-08-19 09:52:39 AM  
Are we sure those weren't # 2 pencils, since he was preparing to start college?
 
2014-08-19 09:52:48 AM  

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: Epic Fap Session: Imagine how terrifying that kid must have been, that the convenience store clerk was afraid to call the police even after he left.

So who DID call the cops?


Customers.
 
2014-08-19 09:53:01 AM  
So is the shop owner just holding out for more money for an EXCLUSIVE or ... what's taking so long to hear his story?
 
2014-08-19 09:53:43 AM  
Yeah, when the tape was released with the name of the shooter, it just screamed 'distraction' if not 'fabrication'.
 
2014-08-19 09:54:09 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: Epic Fap Session: Imagine how terrifying that kid must have been, that the convenience store clerk was afraid to call the police even after he left.

So who DID call the cops?

A customer you dolt.  It's in the article.  That you didn't read.


I've been here long enough to know that nothing good can ever come from taking time to read the so called "article".

/Also, thanks.
 
2014-08-19 09:55:59 AM  
 It is important to note that Brown only shoved the clerk after he put his hands on him

Well how else are you going to shove someone if not having your hands placed upon the person being shoved.
 
2014-08-19 09:56:39 AM  

EyeballKid: But, remember, no bullets should have stopped him. HE WAS ON WEED!!!!!111!!!!


Looked more like a Roid Rage.
 
2014-08-19 09:57:11 AM  

thanksagainandagain: Somacandra: Are people still arguing about the MacGuffin?

Plenty of Farkers embraced this "crime" as part of his "state of mind" when confronted by the cop for jaywalking. I wonder what horseshiate character assassination tack they'll come up with next.


And you know they will.
 
2014-08-19 09:58:30 AM  
I think the problem is why did the event spur such a reaction from the community? This situation was the straw that broke the camel's back. The fact that the police chief was unaware of the disconnect between the police and the community they are policing shows fundamental institutional flaws in the society created by those governing Ferguson.
 
2014-08-19 10:01:28 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: Epic Fap Session: Imagine how terrifying that kid must have been, that the convenience store clerk was afraid to call the police even after he left.

So who DID call the cops?

A customer you dolt.  It's in the article.  That you didn't read.

 A customer you dolt.  It's in the article.  That you didn't read.
 A customer you dolt.  It's in the article.  That you didn't read.
 A customer you dolt.  It's in the article.  That you didn't read.
 A customer you dolt.  It's in the article.  That you didn't read.

bears bears bears bears
 
2014-08-19 10:02:01 AM  
People in Ferguson don't call the cops because the cops don't fix things, they escalate situations and hurt people. Regardless, you don't get the death penalty for petty theft in this country, I don't care how "thuggish" or into "urban culture" you are.
 
2014-08-19 10:02:03 AM  

abb3w: I understand that there's a general rule in law that you can't libel the dead... but also that there are a few peculiar exception cases in some particular states. I guess that the Ferguson police chief doesn't believe the old saying that when you find yourself at the bottom of a hole you should stop digging.


Perhaps their error is in digging downward when, in fact, they should be digging up.
 
2014-08-19 10:02:07 AM  

smitty04: I guess when the clerk tried to lock the front door, he deserved being roughed up.


I guess you prefer straw man arguments.
 
2014-08-19 10:04:37 AM  
Shame this is a "political" story.

Everybody pick a side!
 
2014-08-19 10:05:17 AM  

Epic Fap Session: Imagine how terrifying that kid must have been, that the convenience store clerk was afraid to call the police even after he left.


So terrified he actually came out from behind the counter.
 
2014-08-19 10:07:02 AM  
So it's confirmed that the guy in the video was Michael Brown? I'm genuinely asking. It's gotten so hard to dig up reliable and confirmed information.
 
2014-08-19 10:10:00 AM  

Gaddiel: So it's confirmed that the guy in the video was Michael Brown? I'm genuinely asking. It's gotten so hard to dig up reliable and confirmed information.


Dorian Johnson says so and pretty much everyone believes him. For some reason a lot of people doubt his word on the shooting, though.
 
2014-08-19 10:10:14 AM  
The robbery tells a lot about his state of mind concerning his size and ability and willingness to use it to intimidate.  Reports said he was acting aggressively and combative with the cop who was a smaller guy.  I don't know if the gunshots were warranted, but had there been 2 officers there rather than a single guy on his own this might not have ended in a killing as they both could have worked to subdue him if he did attack the cop. I don't think he should have been killed over this, but having a lone officer led to this possibly extreme reaction by the officer.  Adding cameras in every possible location (car, body and gun..etc) should be done as well.

/2 officers
//multiple cameras
 
2014-08-19 10:10:41 AM  

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: People in Ferguson don't call the cops because the cops don't fix things, they escalate situations and hurt people. Regardless, you don't get the death penalty for petty theft in this country, I don't care how "thuggish" or into "urban culture" you are.


But he had a rap sheet as long as my arm plus the video of stuff and he would have just ended up on death row anyway
 
2014-08-19 10:10:49 AM  
A question of robbery should be easily confirmed or denied by simply asking the on-duty store clerk.
 
2014-08-19 10:10:53 AM  
Didn't his buddy Johnson already admit that they stole cigars from the store?  Plus, why would he push around the clerk if he wasn't doing something wrong in there?
 
2014-08-19 10:11:03 AM  
It's not really evident that he purchased anything, but the incident before the display pushing certainly looks more amicable than the video stills that were first released. I know I can't see any cash changing hands from that angle, though his hands do pass the visible portion of the counter several times where it's possible he was handing money to the clerk.

Here is what I see:

1) Brown gets a pack of Swisher Sweets from the cashier, passes them back to Jackson.
2) Brown talks to the cashier, moving a hand onto/past the portion of the counter visible on the video with enough time off-screen to conceivably pay for something.
3) Brown brings his hands back with several items from the other side of the counter; some fall out of his hand on the floor.
4) Jackson places the box of Swisher Sweets he was handed back on the counter and Brown gives back at least one pack as well.
5) Brown bends down and starts picking up the dropped items.
6) Clerk walks out from behind counter around Brown to the front door, not attempting to pick up the items or stop Brown at this point.
7) Brown gets up with the items he picked up and heads for the door.

If he really didn't steal anything and the dispute between Brown and the clerk was unrelated to stolen goods, why has Jackson confirmed that Brown had just in fact stolen from the store? I think this shows it's far more likely that this was a shoplifting attempt/theft by deception that ended with him pushing the clerk to escape when he got caught doing it than any sort of strong arm holdup in the way we traditionally think of him (AKA, threat to turn over cash or objects of value under threat of force). The idea that there wasn't any actual crime committed is a bridge too far though.
 
2014-08-19 10:11:27 AM  
Hooray, yet more rampant speculation!

I don't know the timing of the call to the police, or of the stop of Brown, but the alleged robbery might be relevant if the officer approached Brown with the knowledge that they fit the general description of the suspects. Then the officer isn't just a racist asshole, but a guy doing his job. It doesn't even matter if Brown actually payed or not, if the cops got a call about a robbery and a description of suspects, they'll try and detain the suspects until they can sort it out.

Similarly, eyewitness accounts and the coroner's initial report have been contradictory, he wasn't apparently shot in the back, and he was shot through the palm, which would be a terrible shot by the officer if Brown's hands were over his head, and a magic bullet if his hands were over his head and he was facing away from the officer.

That being said, we also haven't seen the dashcam video of the attempt to get Brown into the car, which might give context to the struggle between Brown and the officer, nor have we seen what alleged injuries the officer may have sustained at the hands of Brown. Even if Brown wasn't facing away from the officer, if he was trying to submit or trying to retreat, then the use of force is completely unjustified.

But of course, one side must be completely good, and the other mustache twirlingly evil. It's not possible that Brown actually did rob the store, and that the officer's actions were still unwarranted, and the killing should be considered a murder.
 
2014-08-19 10:12:02 AM  

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: I've been here long enough to know that nothing good can ever come from taking time to read the so called "article".


cdn.chud.com
 
2014-08-19 10:13:26 AM  

qorkfiend: But he had a rap sheet as long as my arm


So you're saying he was a typical black man trying to live in America.

There are lots of those.
 
2014-08-19 10:15:24 AM  
The store clerk could squash this debate pretty quickly.
 
2014-08-19 10:15:55 AM  
If you think this is about one killing of one boy, you're kinda missing the point.
 
2014-08-19 10:17:32 AM  

bluenovaman: The robbery tells a lot about his state of mind concerning his size and ability and willingness to use it to intimidate.  Reports said he was acting aggressively and combative with the cop who was a smaller guy.  I don't know if the gunshots were warranted, but had there been 2 officers there rather than a single guy on his own this might not have ended in a killing as they both could have worked to subdue him if he did attack the cop. I don't think he should have been killed over this, but having a lone officer led to this possibly extreme reaction by the officer.  Adding cameras in every possible location (car, body and gun..etc) should be done as well.

/2 officers
//multiple cameras


Several cops tried to subdue a big black guy in NYC, unfortunately they used a choke hold which violated the rules.

The best solution would be hire ex-football players as cops. It takes a 400lb person to subdue a 300lb person.
 
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