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(WSBTV)   Remember that botched raid where the SWAT team threw a flashbang grenade into a toddler's crib? The county refuses to pay the toddler's medical bills   (wsbtv.com) divider line 208
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12061 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Aug 2014 at 1:59 AM (4 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-18 11:24:04 PM
start throwing them in jail for contempt. that'll get their attention quickly.
 
2014-08-18 11:35:10 PM
I hope their lawsuit bankrupts the county.
 
2014-08-18 11:35:57 PM
No rules, no accountability

/any wonder the police are becoming more hated by the day?
 
2014-08-19 12:00:44 AM
To be fair the county is legally forbidden to pay unless compelled by a Court. This is to prevent someone scamming the county out of money (eg the Mayor's BIL stubs his toe, better pay millions).

They're not saying "we don't want to" they're saying "we cannot legally do it, please sue us so we can"
 
2014-08-19 12:19:07 AM

netweavr: To be fair the county is legally forbidden to pay unless compelled by a Court. This is to prevent someone scamming the county out of money (eg the Mayor's BIL stubs his toe, better pay millions).

They're not saying "we don't want to" they're saying "we cannot legally do it, please sue us so we can"


No, they're saying:

The question before the board was whether it is legally permitted to pay these expenses. After consideration of this question following advice of counsel, the board of commissioners has concluded that it would be in violation of the law for it to do so.

They didn't say "Please sue us!" or "We'd love to pay but we can't by law." or any other adult thing. They took the dickhead route and gave a blanket denial with no subtext through a lawyer. Line them up on the chopping block next to the Fergusun PD.
 
2014-08-19 12:20:30 AM

doglover: netweavr: To be fair the county is legally forbidden to pay unless compelled by a Court. This is to prevent someone scamming the county out of money (eg the Mayor's BIL stubs his toe, better pay millions).

They're not saying "we don't want to" they're saying "we cannot legally do it, please sue us so we can"

No, they're saying:

The question before the board was whether it is legally permitted to pay these expenses. After consideration of this question following advice of counsel, the board of commissioners has concluded that it would be in violation of the law for it to do so.

They didn't say "Please sue us!" or "We'd love to pay but we can't by law." or any other adult thing. They took the dickhead route and gave a blanket denial with no subtext through a lawyer. Line them up on the chopping block next to the Fergusun PD.


Funny how two people can read the same thing and come to wildly different conclusions.
 
2014-08-19 12:50:04 AM

netweavr: doglover: netweavr: To be fair the county is legally forbidden to pay unless compelled by a Court. This is to prevent someone scamming the county out of money (eg the Mayor's BIL stubs his toe, better pay millions).

They're not saying "we don't want to" they're saying "we cannot legally do it, please sue us so we can"

No, they're saying:

The question before the board was whether it is legally permitted to pay these expenses. After consideration of this question following advice of counsel, the board of commissioners has concluded that it would be in violation of the law for it to do so.

They didn't say "Please sue us!" or "We'd love to pay but we can't by law." or any other adult thing. They took the dickhead route and gave a blanket denial with no subtext through a lawyer. Line them up on the chopping block next to the Fergusun PD.

Funny how two people can read the same thing and come to wildly different conclusions.


Which is because the county lawyer is an asshole who can't communicate. If he COULD communicate, he would be saying what you are saying in the words you are using. YOU should be the country lawyer, or at least his mouthpiece.

Instead, he said something awful which makes decent people want to pop him in the mouth.
 
2014-08-19 12:50:08 AM
That toddler was clearly caught committing SWB.  He had it coming.
 
2014-08-19 01:53:17 AM

doglover: the country lawyer


Also, a rural juror.
img.fark.net
 
2014-08-19 02:04:09 AM
Color me bad, I mean shocked,
 
2014-08-19 02:05:45 AM
As a father, this story makes me feel stabby.  I have to keep reminding myself that the 95% of cops that are horrible people give the rest of them a bad name.
 
2014-08-19 02:07:37 AM

netweavr: They're not saying "we don't want to" they're saying "we cannot legally do it, please sue us so we can"


No, they are saying, "sue us so we can laugh at you and have our judge throw it out, or just drag this out for years until you give up"

/if it looks like they may lose, a kilo of meth might be found at the plaintiffs house, or the parents may just accidentally fall down an elevator shaft onto a pile of bullets.
 
2014-08-19 02:08:15 AM

TheWhoppah: As a father, this story makes me feel stabby.  I have to keep reminding myself that the 95% of cops that are horrible people give the rest of them a bad name.


This one is more about the lawyers.
 
2014-08-19 02:10:12 AM
How hard is for them to just sit on the house or follow the residents around to make sure that no kids stay in the house
/Seems like the police are getting stupider by the minute
 
2014-08-19 02:11:03 AM
Good, I can't stand that little white trash honey boo boo.
 
2014-08-19 02:14:59 AM
So when are all the police defenders from the Brown riots going to come in here and call the kid a thug.
 
2014-08-19 02:16:51 AM
non-story. illegal assault baby
 
2014-08-19 02:17:15 AM
Still waiting for the proud Cliven Bundy Players to start showing up to protests in solidarity against authoritarian over-reach...

... why is it, you think, that they aren't showing up?
 
2014-08-19 02:19:38 AM
Sorry, subby, you're going to have to be way more specific.
 
2014-08-19 02:20:15 AM

netweavr: To be fair the county is legally forbidden to pay unless compelled by a Court. This is to prevent someone scamming the county out of money (eg the Mayor's BIL stubs his toe, better pay millions).

They're not saying "we don't want to" they're saying "we cannot legally do it, please sue us so we can"


Exactly.  No one is saying that the county isn't liable for this mistake by their officers, they are saying that at this point they are prohibited from paying.  That's not to say they are not acknowledging the potential liability.  Can you imagine the corruption that may occur in some places (well more so than we already see) if they could award cash based upon incidents that haven't been litigated and had at least a judge sign off on them.  I wonder why this case hasn't been quietly settled already other than if the number the family is giving the county is some outrageous figure (not that it wouldn't be justified to start extremely high number given the asinine conduct by the officers)
 
2014-08-19 02:21:28 AM
Bounkham Phonesavah, affectionately known as "Baby Boo Boo,"

non story. kid was obviously an anchor baby, and we all know that brown foreigners love to use their children as human shields.
 
2014-08-19 02:21:48 AM

jmr61: TheWhoppah: As a father, this story makes me feel stabby.  I have to keep reminding myself that the 95% of cops that are horrible people give the rest of them a bad name.

This one is more about the lawyers.


No, the lawyers are just emotionless pragmatons.  The officer that tossed a stun grenade into a baby's crib needs to be crucified... and I don't mean figuratively.
 
2014-08-19 02:23:24 AM
Simple fix:

Take each council member and restrain them in a lying position. Then, place a flash bang a few inches from either ear and pull the pin. Do it for each and then given them a few weeks to recuperate. Repeat the procedure indefinitely until they agree to pay.
 
2014-08-19 02:23:54 AM

drjekel_mrhyde: How hard is for them to just sit on the house or follow the residents around to make sure that no kids stay in the house
/Seems like the police are getting stupider by the minute


If I remember the story right from the initial outrage, the child was visiting and the crib was right next to the door.
 
2014-08-19 02:25:29 AM

doglover: netweavr: doglover: netweavr: To be fair the county is legally forbidden to pay unless compelled by a Court. This is to prevent someone scamming the county out of money (eg the Mayor's BIL stubs his toe, better pay millions).

They're not saying "we don't want to" they're saying "we cannot legally do it, please sue us so we can"

No, they're saying:

The question before the board was whether it is legally permitted to pay these expenses. After consideration of this question following advice of counsel, the board of commissioners has concluded that it would be in violation of the law for it to do so.

They didn't say "Please sue us!" or "We'd love to pay but we can't by law." or any other adult thing. They took the dickhead route and gave a blanket denial with no subtext through a lawyer. Line them up on the chopping block next to the Fergusun PD.

Funny how two people can read the same thing and come to wildly different conclusions.

Which is because the county lawyer is an asshole who can't communicate. If he COULD communicate, he would be saying what you are saying in the words you are using. YOU should be the country lawyer, or at least his mouthpiece.

Instead, he said something awful which makes decent people want to pop him in the mouth.


That is not something he is allowed to do, if you hire a lawyer he can't say anything intentionally detrimental like "yeah he's guilty as sin, so sue him"

pretty sure you get disbarred for shiat like that
 
2014-08-19 02:30:36 AM
If you can get disbarred for telling the truth, then the law profession has come full circle to nothing, and we can toss the whole thing in the ocean.
 
2014-08-19 02:32:17 AM

martissimo: doglover: netweavr: doglover: netweavr: To be fair the county is legally forbidden to pay unless compelled by a Court. This is to prevent someone scamming the county out of money (eg the Mayor's BIL stubs his toe, better pay millions).

They're not saying "we don't want to" they're saying "we cannot legally do it, please sue us so we can"

No, they're saying:

The question before the board was whether it is legally permitted to pay these expenses. After consideration of this question following advice of counsel, the board of commissioners has concluded that it would be in violation of the law for it to do so.

They didn't say "Please sue us!" or "We'd love to pay but we can't by law." or any other adult thing. They took the dickhead route and gave a blanket denial with no subtext through a lawyer. Line them up on the chopping block next to the Fergusun PD.

Funny how two people can read the same thing and come to wildly different conclusions.

Which is because the county lawyer is an asshole who can't communicate. If he COULD communicate, he would be saying what you are saying in the words you are using. YOU should be the country lawyer, or at least his mouthpiece.

Instead, he said something awful which makes decent people want to pop him in the mouth.

That is not something he is allowed to do, if you hire a lawyer he can't say anything intentionally detrimental like "yeah he's guilty as sin, so sue him"

pretty sure you get disbarred for shiat like that


Agreed.  His duty is to the taxpayers of the county.  He has to act in the best interest of the county which means defending their action in what ever manner he can.  Like a defense attorney, this can be incredibly difficult and look horrible, but he is required to do so regardless of his personal feelings.  This means while he cannot say they are guilty and will put up a defense no matter how weak, at the same time you can bet he will strongly encourage a healthy settlement ASAP as you do not want this case proceeding to a jury and being in the media any longer than necessary. Just because they didn't give the family a giant suitcase full of money the next day, doesn't mean it won't be coming their way at some point. It just has to go through some steps first.
 
2014-08-19 02:34:58 AM
The "Officer Safety" and "Overwhelming Force" policies of police departments executing drug war laws are a recipe for unintended casualties.  The officer laughs and smiles about being taken "off guard" because his mind is racing trying to make sure he doesn't say anything that will make him or his men look at fault and he wasn't prepped how to talk about that part of the event.

First their house burned down, then they had to move in with their meth-dealing relative, then the police throw a grenade in their child's play pin and half burn it's face off.  On the bright side I don't feel so bad about my life now.
 
2014-08-19 02:35:09 AM

Warlordtrooper: So when are all the police defenders from the Brown riots going to come in here and call the kid a thug.


To be fair the Brown kid was a thug. Didn't deserve to die but a flash bang to the face would have been ok with me in his case.
 
2014-08-19 02:39:17 AM
Maybe we should get our local and state leaders to craft a bill that limits the ability of police to use these bullshiat SWAT tactics for everyday warrants and police work.

Let SWAT go back to when they were used for hostage rescue  and other unusual situations.
 
2014-08-19 02:41:31 AM

spiritplumber: If you can get disbarred for telling the truth, then the law profession has come full circle to nothing, and we can toss the whole thing in the ocean.


You can get disbarred for saying something publicly that you don't have to say that is contrary to your client's interests.

If you're an attorney, there are things that you must leave unsaid in public no matter how much you would like to say them.  You can say them to your client in private all you want.

But encouraging a lawsuit against your client is pretty much inherently against your client's interests.  And if the law prohibits the payout without a legal settlement or judgment, you have to advise your client that they cannot pay without one.

It's the nature of an adversarial legal system.

/sausage being made.
 
2014-08-19 02:42:41 AM

drjekel_mrhyde: How hard is for them to just sit on the house or follow the residents around to make sure that no kids stay in the house
/Seems like the police are getting stupider by the minute


The front yard was littered with children's toys...
 
2014-08-19 02:43:30 AM

Duke_leto_Atredes: syrynxx: That toddler was clearly caught committing SWB.  He had it coming.

The baby was put in harms way by the scumbag parents. The war on drugs is lost. We might as well just kill the druggies all of them and nuke the places that grow the drugs


But the spice must flow!
 
2014-08-19 02:49:31 AM

HideAndGoFarkYourself: drjekel_mrhyde: How hard is for them to just sit on the house or follow the residents around to make sure that no kids stay in the house
/Seems like the police are getting stupider by the minute

If I remember the story right from the initial outrage, the child was visiting and the crib was right next to the door.


Well you're remembering the story part right, they had done no direct investigation of the house, they sent a CI in to buy meth from someone who wasn't even there at the time of the raid.  The CI reported he made the buy and the guy had a gun.  It's a southern thing to completely trust a junkie, not follow up on his word, and then use military armaments and two dozen guys who had high school GPA's too low for college, an extra $2K - $2500 and 8 weeks to spare to kick in the door for the government.

In Ga they bomb babies over a meth dealer who's not there.

in Fl they shoot a dude over about $2 of weed.

Tough call, baby bombers or .5g killers.

I think Fl wins the thug cop award, the kid lived can't say the same for the guy in Tampa.


Between everything Alex Jones is starting to make sense and that's REALLY frightening.
 
2014-08-19 02:49:53 AM
Oh c'mon. What normal person wants to pay money when they accidentally harm a toddler? Nobody would step up for that!
 
2014-08-19 02:52:42 AM

charlesmartel11235: non-story. illegal assault baby


He had one of those high-capacity pampers, too...
 
2014-08-19 02:56:47 AM
drayno76:

Between everything Alex Jones is starting to make sense and that's REALLY frightening.

I know, right?  I'm pretty sure now that the U.S. government probably IS covering up the existence of a Nazi base on the moon.
 
2014-08-19 02:57:29 AM
The mom who chose to house her baby at a meth lab put the baby in harm's way. Grow up!
 
2014-08-19 03:05:30 AM

Whole Wheat: The mom who chose to house her baby at a meth lab put the baby in harm's way. Grow up!


Cause that's totally what happened.
 
2014-08-19 03:06:23 AM
The city isn't going to pay because it is immune from tort liability because the state almost certainly has granted itself statutory or common-law sovereign immunity, and the cops are immune because of official immunity.

The victims will sue, and even though they can prove injury and damages, the state will invoke immunity and the courts will agree to throw the case out on that basis.

So the very government which guarantees you equal protection, due process, a right to trial, and remedy for injury will deny you all of that when it is the wrongdoer.

And the perverse outcome of both immunity doctrines is to encourage state actors to perform their duties negligently and recklessly because what the fark are you going to do? Sue them so they can compound your injury by shoving your case right back up your ass?

Sovereign immunity and official immunity are despotism flatly incompatible with the Constitution and any notion of justice, and both bullshiat doctrines belong in history's dustbin.
 
2014-08-19 03:08:35 AM

CRtwenty: Whole Wheat: The mom who chose to house her baby at a meth lab put the baby in harm's way. Grow up!

Cause that's totally what happened.


Yeah, you're right. They were having a bible study, and the cops busted in, blew up a baby, and sprinkled meth all over the place.

I am not a police apologist by any stretch, but can we at least hate them for legitimate reasons?
 
2014-08-19 03:11:44 AM

SmittyBGKY: Warlordtrooper: So when are all the police defenders from the Brown riots going to come in here and call the kid a thug.

To be fair the Brown kid was a thug. Didn't deserve to die but a flash bang to the face would have been ok with me in his case.


Or at least we were led to believe that.
Now we find the robbery didn't take place; while we got two carefully selected incriminating looking stills from the cops showing the 'strong-arm robbery', the actual running video from the store shows him paying for the cigars and leaving. Attorneys for the store deny that the store ever called the police to report any kind of robbery, and claim the owners were taken aback when cops arrived and demanded the video from them.

/I am even less inclined to trust cops now than before, and I didn't think that was even possible. I don't think we can trust anything about this case.
 
2014-08-19 03:17:58 AM

Whole Wheat: CRtwenty: Whole Wheat: The mom who chose to house her baby at a meth lab put the baby in harm's way. Grow up!

Cause that's totally what happened.

Yeah, you're right. They were having a bible study, and the cops busted in, blew up a baby, and sprinkled meth all over the place.

I am not a police apologist by any stretch, but can we at least hate them for legitimate reasons?


Blowing up a baby because they can't be bothered to wait a few hours for the suspect to leave for something or other is a pretty legit reason to hate them, I think.
 
2014-08-19 03:18:20 AM

tekmo: The city isn't going to pay because it is immune from tort liability because the state almost certainly has granted itself statutory or common-law sovereign immunity, and the cops are immune because of official immunity.

The victims will sue, and even though they can prove injury and damages, the state will invoke immunity and the courts will agree to throw the case out on that basis.

So the very government which guarantees you equal protection, due process, a right to trial, and remedy for injury will deny you all of that when it is the wrongdoer.

And the perverse outcome of both immunity doctrines is to encourage state actors to perform their duties negligently and recklessly because what the fark are you going to do? Sue them so they can compound your injury by shoving your case right back up your ass?

Sovereign immunity and official immunity are despotism flatly incompatible with the Constitution and any notion of justice, and both bullshiat doctrines belong in history's dustbin.


It is the county sheriff involved in the raid, therefore the county itself is responsible for the outcomes of what happened that night.  Although there is sovereign immunity that exists, in practice for many things such as intentional torts, the state and federal government have waived it by various laws spelling out what can be litigated and under what authority. I am not certain what is available for the victims of this raid and what avenue they have to explore, but almost certainly someone is going to be paying for this mistake.
 
2014-08-19 03:23:42 AM

Daedalus27: tekmo: The city isn't going to pay because it is immune from tort liability because the state almost certainly has granted itself statutory or common-law sovereign immunity, and the cops are immune because of official immunity.

The victims will sue, and even though they can prove injury and damages, the state will invoke immunity and the courts will agree to throw the case out on that basis.

So the very government which guarantees you equal protection, due process, a right to trial, and remedy for injury will deny you all of that when it is the wrongdoer.

And the perverse outcome of both immunity doctrines is to encourage state actors to perform their duties negligently and recklessly because what the fark are you going to do? Sue them so they can compound your injury by shoving your case right back up your ass?

Sovereign immunity and official immunity are despotism flatly incompatible with the Constitution and any notion of justice, and both bullshiat doctrines belong in history's dustbin.

It is the county sheriff involved in the raid, therefore the county itself is responsible for the outcomes of what happened that night.  Although there is sovereign immunity that exists, in practice for many things such as intentional torts, the state and federal government have waived it by various laws spelling out what can be litigated and under what authority. I am not certain what is available for the victims of this raid and what avenue they have to explore, but almost certainly someone is going to be paying for this mistake.


Hopefully before the baby dies of old age.
 
2014-08-19 03:24:01 AM

Whole Wheat: The mom who chose to house her baby at a meth lab put the baby in harm's way. Grow up!


Yeah, I'm with you, fark that baby!  He totally had it coming and doesn't deserve any better medical care than a bandaid.
In fact, we should blow grenades up in the faces of all irresponsible parents just to teach those stupid babies a lesson.
 
2014-08-19 03:31:06 AM

Daedalus27: but almost certainly someone is going to be paying for this mistake.


And it ain't going to be the government.
 
2014-08-19 03:31:33 AM
Or at least we were led to believe that.
Now we find the robbery didn't take place; while we got two carefully selected incriminating looking stills from the cops showing the 'strong-arm robbery', the actual running video from the store shows him paying for the cigars and leaving. Attorneys for the store deny that the store ever called the police to report any kind of robbery, and claim the owners were taken aback when cops arrived and demanded the video from them.

Got any links for that. I cant find it. From the video I saw it certainly looks like a robbery to me.
 
2014-08-19 03:36:39 AM

walkingtall: Or at least we were led to believe that.
Now we find the robbery didn't take place; while we got two carefully selected incriminating looking stills from the cops showing the 'strong-arm robbery', the actual running video from the store shows him paying for the cigars and leaving. Attorneys for the store deny that the store ever called the police to report any kind of robbery, and claim the owners were taken aback when cops arrived and demanded the video from them.

Got any links for that. I cant find it. From the video I saw it certainly looks like a robbery to me.


http://crooksandliars.com/2014/08/ferguson-cops-busted-new-video-see ms -show

There is one. No clue what to think of it, but the stores attorneys have made a number of statements that conflict with the cops story. Who knows what the fark really happened at this point.
 
2014-08-19 03:37:15 AM

walkingtall: Or at least we were led to believe that.
Now we find the robbery didn't take place; while we got two carefully selected incriminating looking stills from the cops showing the 'strong-arm robbery', the actual running video from the store shows him paying for the cigars and leaving. Attorneys for the store deny that the store ever called the police to report any kind of robbery, and claim the owners were taken aback when cops arrived and demanded the video from them.

Got any links for that. I cant find it. From the video I saw it certainly looks like a robbery to me.


Wrong thread....?
 
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