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(The New York Times)   Michael Brown autopsy results are in. If you guessed 6 shots, you win   (nytimes.comhttp) divider line 1483
    More: Followup, New York State Police, Shawn L. Parcells, forensic pathologists, Mr. Brown, broad daylight, Ferguson Police Department, medical examiners, St. Louis County  
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12194 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Aug 2014 at 12:44 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-17 11:43:11 PM  
But none in the back.

What I find interesting is how statement of Brown's friend, and co-hort:

When the officer opened his door, it hit Mr. Brown. With his left hand, Officer Wilson reached out and grabbed Mr. Brown by the neck, Mr. Johnson said.
"
It's like tug-of-war," Mr. Johnson said. "He's trying to pull him in. He's pulling away, that's when I heard, 'I'm gonna shoot you.' "


Without knowing the size of the officer, I find this incredible.  Brown was 6'4" 294 pounds and as we saw in the other video, a brick wall.  How big do you have to be to pull someone that size around?
 
2014-08-17 11:56:27 PM  
Huh, so he wasn't shot in the back after all.  I wonder how that will change peoples' views about the officer who shot him.
 
2014-08-17 11:58:22 PM  
I'm curious how many shots were fired
 
2014-08-18 12:10:27 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Huh, so he wasn't shot in the back after all.  I wonder how that will change peoples' views about the officer who shot him.


Well, it does contradict the eye witness accounts of him being shot in the back, but it doesn't contradict that he was running away.  Without further forensic analysis, the two likeliest possibilities seem to be that he was shot sequentially in the front or that he was shot in the front, ran away, and then was shot more when he turned back.  Beyond that, it doesn't really change much until more forensic evidence comes out.
 
2014-08-18 12:16:38 AM  

Mentat: TuteTibiImperes: Huh, so he wasn't shot in the back after all.  I wonder how that will change peoples' views about the officer who shot him.

Well, it does contradict the eye witness accounts of him being shot in the back, but it doesn't contradict that he was running away.  Without further forensic analysis, the two likeliest possibilities seem to be that he was shot sequentially in the front or that he was shot in the front, ran away, and then was shot more when he turned back.  Beyond that, it doesn't really change much until more forensic evidence comes out.


There's the new witness video that surfaced today where the guy saw Brown charging at the officer when he was shot as well.
 
2014-08-18 12:16:52 AM  
I've had about 6 shots as well.
 
2014-08-18 12:21:27 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Mentat: TuteTibiImperes: Huh, so he wasn't shot in the back after all.  I wonder how that will change peoples' views about the officer who shot him.

Well, it does contradict the eye witness accounts of him being shot in the back, but it doesn't contradict that he was running away.  Without further forensic analysis, the two likeliest possibilities seem to be that he was shot sequentially in the front or that he was shot in the front, ran away, and then was shot more when he turned back.  Beyond that, it doesn't really change much until more forensic evidence comes out.

There's the new witness video that surfaced today where the guy saw Brown charging at the officer when he was shot as well.


I'd love a link to that video. I haven't seen that.
 
2014-08-18 12:25:55 AM  

cambie: TuteTibiImperes: Mentat: TuteTibiImperes: Huh, so he wasn't shot in the back after all.  I wonder how that will change peoples' views about the officer who shot him.

Well, it does contradict the eye witness accounts of him being shot in the back, but it doesn't contradict that he was running away.  Without further forensic analysis, the two likeliest possibilities seem to be that he was shot sequentially in the front or that he was shot in the front, ran away, and then was shot more when he turned back.  Beyond that, it doesn't really change much until more forensic evidence comes out.

There's the new witness video that surfaced today where the guy saw Brown charging at the officer when he was shot as well.

I'd love a link to that video. I haven't seen that.


Here you go.
 
2014-08-18 12:43:26 AM  
I knew this was going to happen . Just like with the Martin thing.opinion colours who was in the right, and all evidence gets twisted to support that preveious opinion. For both sides.
 
2014-08-18 12:48:43 AM  
Whoo hoo! I beat the spread!
 
2014-08-18 12:49:19 AM  
Cop shoots for center mass
He's a bad shot
Hits him in the arm a few times
starts to collapse forward
last two shots to head
The hands in the air thing is highly discredited now

If a cop is opening fire at you. He's unloading his clip. They do not just fire a few warning shots first and see if you're dead yet

The story will now be.. Was deadly force justified..
 
2014-08-18 12:49:51 AM  
It throws the "He was shot in the back" witness statements out entirely. Those people lost all credibility at this point.
 
2014-08-18 12:49:56 AM  
Scanner: Highway patrol - media is strongly advised to move out of the hot zone, back to media area or back to command. All media needs to return to Lucas and ?? All media out of the West Florissant corridor complete per highway command.

Scanner: Getting multiple reports that rioters are planning to loot the store.

Self: This is in no way a bookmark.
 
2014-08-18 12:50:05 AM  
Tim Pool heading back to the staging area. Will anyone be out of the pen past curfew if not Tim Pool?
 
2014-08-18 12:50:20 AM  
I would throw the woman who is driving Tim Pool around out of the car and scream something.

I would ask her, do you want it to be in a group of cops or a group of protesters. Your choice. And then base what I yelled on that.
 
2014-08-18 12:50:41 AM  
Reporting from other thread:

Aisha Sultan @AishaS  1m
Attny on @msnbc says autopsy showing #MichaelBrown was shot in inner rt palm means he was shot w. hands up. Says it should go to grand jury.
 
2014-08-18 12:50:43 AM  
Link is telling me to please log in.  BLARGH!
 
2014-08-18 12:50:55 AM  
I'm going to match gun shots with vodak shots!
 
2014-08-18 12:50:58 AM  
Oh, yeah. And we have a curfew in 10 minutes. You know. In case we needed another factor tonight, what with someone not even living to see curfew.
 
2014-08-18 12:51:04 AM  
am i going to believe that a black guy decided to lower his head and charge at a cop with a gun in the racist hellhole that is the southern united states or that some black kid got shot, ran away, realized he was still getting shot at tried to give up, and got shot some more?
 
2014-08-18 12:51:17 AM  

styckx: Cop shoots for center mass
He's a bad shot
Hits him in the arm a few times
starts to collapse forward
last two shots to head
The hands in the air thing is highly discredited now

If a cop is opening fire at you. He's unloading his clip. They do not just fire a few warning shots first and see if you're dead yet

The story will now be.. Was deadly force justified..


he charged him. im 6'4 and weight a little more than this guy. i used to work as a bouncer because of this a while back. a guy my size can cause a little more than a bruise or two, given motivation... sorta like this guy had :D
 
2014-08-18 12:51:19 AM  
http://new.livestream.com/timcast/events/3295551 Tim Pool livestream

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9649227/events/3301474 Anonymous In Ferguson livestream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q0wA4OmCd4 Vice News live feed, includes 5-10second delay of Pool

/cops directing media to go behind the police line
//coincidentally, that free speech zone just happens to be the one where the cameras won't be able to see anything worth seeing
///Anon behind police lines
 
2014-08-18 12:51:19 AM  
quick trigger finger on that trigger happy cop.
 
2014-08-18 12:51:35 AM  
As stated in the other thread. He was not shot in the back, but that does not make the witnesses statements 100% wrong. Stealing other peoples explanations, but the human mind takes a lot of shortcuts and makes a lot of pattern recognition.

If he were to flinch after a weapon discharge, it could easily be mistaken as him being hit. The rest of the statement may be accurate, but eye witnesses are notorioulsy unreliable, even with zero malicious intent. Human mind is a very lazy thing.

It could go either way at this point in my view. There are now eye witnesses on both sides, and the autopsy lends credence to both sides equally in my opinion.
 
2014-08-18 12:51:47 AM  
These people do not care about justice, just vengeance.  If they cared about justice in the least, they would wait for the investigation to conclude before demanding the cops head on a plate.  I recall that when the video surfaced of Gentle Giant robbing the store, even after Browns parents confirmed it was him, others were saying it wasn't.  When you are that bereft of reality, no amount of facts or evidence will help you deal with it.
 
2014-08-18 12:51:47 AM  
Media being officially kicked out:

https://twitter.com/jonswaine
 
2014-08-18 12:51:54 AM  

styckx: Cop shoots for center mass
He's a bad shot
Hits him in the arm a few times
starts to collapse forward
last two shots to head
The hands in the air thing is highly discredited now

If a cop is opening fire at you. He's unloading his clip. They do not just fire a few warning shots first and see if you're dead yet

The story will now be.. Was deadly force justified..


If the unsubstantiated reports of the cop having a broken orbital and jaw or whatever damage to his face, he would have had trouble aiming.
 
2014-08-18 12:52:08 AM  
Aaaaaaaaaaaaand Tim's feed just failed
 
2014-08-18 12:52:12 AM  
This still doesn't change the fact that the kid was unarmed.
 
2014-08-18 12:52:15 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm curious how many shots were fired


More than a couple.
 
2014-08-18 12:52:18 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Huh, so he wasn't shot in the back after all.  I wonder how that will change peoples' views about the officer who shot him.


Are you kidding? People are going to start yelling that the report is fake and there is a conspiracy to discredit the witnesses and to make Brown look like he deserved to die.

These are the same people who still think that's not Brown at the robbery and that his friend is lying about them being there.
 
2014-08-18 12:52:27 AM  

TheManofPA: Tim Pool heading back to the staging area. Will anyone be out of the pen past curfew if not Tim Pool?


Every time I read Tim Pool I think Tim Gunn.  I really want Tim Gunn on the ground reporting on this.
 
2014-08-18 12:52:32 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: cambie: TuteTibiImperes: Mentat: TuteTibiImperes: Huh, so he wasn't shot in the back after all.  I wonder how that will change peoples' views about the officer who shot him.

Well, it does contradict the eye witness accounts of him being shot in the back, but it doesn't contradict that he was running away.  Without further forensic analysis, the two likeliest possibilities seem to be that he was shot sequentially in the front or that he was shot in the front, ran away, and then was shot more when he turned back.  Beyond that, it doesn't really change much until more forensic evidence comes out.

There's the new witness video that surfaced today where the guy saw Brown charging at the officer when he was shot as well.

I'd love a link to that video. I haven't seen that.

Here you go.


This narrative would track with the pattern of injuries Brown suffered as well.  If he turned and began closing distance on the officer in a manner that caused the officer to feel deadly force was warranted, then I would imagine he began shooting and did not stop until the threat stopped.  It's not like you can tell a running man mountain to stop so that you can check and see if you have hit him enough yet.
 
2014-08-18 12:52:33 AM  
Remember this examination was of the body only. No clothing, no x-rays, no projectiles, no projectile fragments. It was a gross examination of the cadaver only. While we may begin to form some inferences we shouldn't draw any conclusions.

It is important to have all the facts. The clothing, the projectiles, toxicology, x-rays, and even bullet trajectory mappings done prior to and during the 'official' autopsy will be necessary to form any reasonable conclusions.
 
2014-08-18 12:52:34 AM  
Tim Pool says he can see the sirens. Hopefully he's tied to the ship's mast and his crew has beeswax in their ears.
 
2014-08-18 12:53:05 AM  
I want to know what app Tim Pool is using. Being able to broadcast live video from your phone that is saved on a website seems like a good thing to be able to do these days....
 
2014-08-18 12:53:06 AM  

King Something: Aaaaaaaaaaaaand Tim's feed just failed


MORE iPHONE 5 CABLES!
 
2014-08-18 12:53:11 AM  

King Something: Aaaaaaaaaaaaand Tim's feed just failed


Again.  Mobile internet sucks when actually being mobile.
 
2014-08-18 12:53:14 AM  

desertgeek: Reporting from other thread:

Aisha Sultan @AishaS  1m
Attny on @msnbc says autopsy showing #MichaelBrown was shot in inner rt palm means he was shot w. hands up. Says it should go to grand jury.


Dude was 6'3" and had his hands up (presumably over his head or as high as his head) and hands would be out to the sides) WTF would the officer be shooting at? That doesn't make a whole lotta sense.
 
2014-08-18 12:53:42 AM  

desertgeek: Reporting from other thread:

Aisha Sultan @AishaS  1m
Attny on @msnbc says autopsy showing #MichaelBrown was shot in inner rt palm means he was shot w. hands up. Says it should go to grand jury.


It can mean different things and not just one specific thing.
 
2014-08-18 12:53:49 AM  

Litterbox: These people do not care about justice, just vengeance. If they cared about justice in the least, they would wait for the investigation to conclude before demanding the cops head on a plate.


They don't believe the investigation will ever conclude unless they're on the streets. They believe that as soon as everyone's back is turned, the investigation will just go into the round file and nobody will actually release a report, ever.
 
2014-08-18 12:54:00 AM  

desertgeek: Reporting from other thread:

Aisha Sultan @AishaS  1m
Attny on @msnbc says autopsy showing #MichaelBrown was shot in inner rt palm means he was shot w. hands up. Says it should go to grand jury.


So he was either shot from behind and it went into the part of his hand facing the shooter, or he was shot from the front while displaying his palms to the shooter. Either way does not look good for the shooter.
 
2014-08-18 12:54:00 AM  

Tenz83: It throws the "He was shot in the back" witness statements out entirely. Those people lost all credibility at this point.


Not in the least.

Again, what you see and what happened can be two different things. The analogy I've been using is a magic show. You "see" someone get cut in half, but that's not what actually happened. If you see Guy #1 run from Guy #2, a shot is fired from #2 and #1 twitches or flinches, you believe you've seen #1 get shot in the back. What could have happened is that the shot missed, and it was merely a flinch from #1. Saying that you saw #1 shot in the back doesn't mean you lied. It just means you didn't see what you think you saw. Ergo, your credibility is not "shot."
 
2014-08-18 12:54:00 AM  
Stuff might be going down soon. From Amy Nelson

Police parked big empty bus that is conveniently running so now we can't hear what cops/residents are saying. #ferguson

Followed by:
total censorship right now being ordered back to the media pen bc yanno #ferguson
 
2014-08-18 12:54:12 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: cambie: TuteTibiImperes: Mentat: TuteTibiImperes: Huh, so he wasn't shot in the back after all.  I wonder how that will change peoples' views about the officer who shot him.

Well, it does contradict the eye witness accounts of him being shot in the back, but it doesn't contradict that he was running away.  Without further forensic analysis, the two likeliest possibilities seem to be that he was shot sequentially in the front or that he was shot in the front, ran away, and then was shot more when he turned back.  Beyond that, it doesn't really change much until more forensic evidence comes out.

There's the new witness video that surfaced today where the guy saw Brown charging at the officer when he was shot as well.

I'd love a link to that video. I haven't seen that.

Here you go.


Do you know that eye witness testimony is considered one of the least reliable forms of evidence?
 
2014-08-18 12:54:20 AM  
WTF happened on KARG.? Lots of rubble in the road
 
2014-08-18 12:54:22 AM  

Skarekrough: This still doesn't change the fact that the kid was unarmed.


So?

Unarmed people are still very lethal. Especially when they've got 5" of height and 120lb on the person they are attacking.

Christ, if the reports are true that Wilson has a broken jaw and ocular cavity, he's lucky Brown didn't finish him off in the front seat of his police vehicle.
 
2014-08-18 12:54:50 AM  
People who make a big deal about the number of bullets are idiots.  Bullets are not magical.  People just don't go down from a single gunshot.  There are cold blooded murderers who have shot their victims only once, and people who were in legitimate cases of self defense who shot their attacker dozens of times.  What is important isn't the number of times the trigger was pulled, but what was going through the mind of the shooter, and the actions of the shot that determines if a case is legitimate self defense or a cold blooded murder.  I don't know enough about this case to decide, neither will the numerous "experts" who will attempt to fill in the missing details.  The only people who know the facts of this case, are the investigators, and they don't know all of the facts yet, because the case is still ongoing.

If the cop acted with malice when he shot Michael Brown, then he deserves to be punished.  If he acted out of legitimate fear for his life, then he deserves to be exonerated.  The only way we will know is to allow the investigation to move forward unhindered.  Burning and looting will not bring the facts to the surface, only patience and time.
 
2014-08-18 12:54:53 AM  
Noise cannons
 
2014-08-18 12:55:03 AM  

Caffienatedjedi: If he were to flinch after a weapon discharge, it could easily be mistaken as him being hit. The rest of the statement may be accurate, but eye witnesses are notorioulsy unreliable, even with zero malicious intent. Human mind is a very lazy thing.


I was thinking along these lines. The cop missed on a shot and he flinched and turned around, which others could think was a sign that he was hit. It's too early to rule anything out.
 
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