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(Atlanta Journal Constitution)   Step 1) Pass law allowing people to carry guns anywhere Step 2) ??? Step 3) Have a handgun misfire on a busy street, killing one   (ajc.com) divider line 370
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11561 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Aug 2014 at 5:35 AM (5 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-18 11:02:03 AM

Egoy3k: HotWingConspiracy: Check out the mean streets of Helen, GA where this responsible gun owner was packing for everyone's safety.

[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412] [www.cabinsinhelen.net image 500x333] [cdn.sheknows.com image 600x399] [cedarcreekcabinrentals.com image 773x571]


I just thank god he was there to keep everyone safe.

Jesus christ, if that town got any whiter we'd have to invent a new color name.


I'm sure it's a nice place to visit, or at least was before armed idiots were allowed on the streets.
 
2014-08-18 11:02:55 AM

skozlaw: Alonjar: I dont know what to tell you man. I'm looking at my Georgia CCW card right now, and it is clearly printed right on it that you arent allowed to CCW while under the influence.

Well, like you guys are always so fond of saying, good thing it's against the law, because criminals never break the law.


You have to understand that they're very responsible.
 
2014-08-18 11:09:08 AM

Itstoearly: Meanwhile, in 2012, 33,561 people died in automobile accidents (more than 91 people per day, or more than one person every 16 minutes), but no one on fark complains that private transportation should be outlawed.


Your gun isn't required to get to work, nor is it required to move goods from state to state. Stop being a coont, your argument's been ripped apart more than enough times already.
 
2014-08-18 11:09:43 AM
I suspect this was an Assisted Suicide. Anyone who's been to Helen Georgia surely agrees.

"Just kill me now" were her last words ..
 
2014-08-18 11:10:59 AM

Publikwerks: But since I don't carry a weapon with me most of the time, and even when I do, it's unloaded, action open, it's kinda an untested philosophy.


Untested? You are LIVING that philosophy every day you walk out of the house without a weapon. In all those years, how many times have you needed one? Since you're still alive, I'll guess it's less than two. That's the real issue about safety. In 2014 almost nowhere in the industrialized world is dangerous enough to warrant a weapon.

But if you think you'll need a weapon, any kind of weapon, make sure your 0-attack time is as short as possible. Many fights are decided in the first attack. You want to be the one to make it.
 
2014-08-18 11:16:03 AM
Sounds like he freedomed that hell out of her.
 
2014-08-18 11:19:11 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Egoy3k: HotWingConspiracy: Check out the mean streets of Helen, GA where this responsible gun owner was packing for everyone's safety.

[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412] [www.cabinsinhelen.net image 500x333] [cdn.sheknows.com image 600x399] [cedarcreekcabinrentals.com image 773x571]


I just thank god he was there to keep everyone safe.

Jesus christ, if that town got any whiter we'd have to invent a new color name.

I'm sure it's a nice place to visit, or at least was before armed idiots were allowed on the streets.


Oh I'd visit it for sure the mini-golf course looks sweet, but I couldn't live there.
 
2014-08-18 11:19:42 AM
Step 2 = Darwin (freakin idiots)
/lives in GA
//loves Helen and funnel cakes
 
2014-08-18 11:22:11 AM

mdeesnuts: GodComplex: I don't think any amount of classroom training is going to prevent people from thinking that carrying with a round in the chamber and the safety off is a good idea.

I've always wondered about this. If you carry a semi-auto wouldn't you want a round in the chamber? If you're carrying because you think, however remotely, that *oh fark* moment may happen do you really want to have to rack the slide?


From my standpoint, if I don't have enough time to draw and rack the slide, I probably should be using something else, like mace. Or at least keep the safety on. Seems too many people try to play Quick-Draw McGraw and put a hole in their leg.
 
2014-08-18 11:26:27 AM

EbolaNYC: I wouldn't. Too easy to shoot yourself in the hand and kill some poor fark that's minding their own business.


Then buy a handgun with multiple safeties, a good quality holster, and use them. The vast majority of CCW holders carry with one in the chamber, and the vast majority don't negligently discharge their firearms. This idiot made the news for one of two reasons:

1. He was carrying a defective, broken, or poorly designed firearm (and/or holster).
2. He was an idiot who did something stupid, e.g. drunkenly pulling the trigger.
 
2014-08-18 11:26:55 AM

heili skrimsli: cwolf20: cwolf20: heili skrimsli: cwolf20: heili skrimsli: cwolf20: Why... do people forget one of the standard safety rules.  Have one less round in the gun that it carries, and make sure the empty is the first thing that will attempt to fire.  That way if there is an accident, only an ominous click will sound.

Because that's not one of the 'standard safety rules.'

Keeping your farking finger off the trigger, however, is one of them.

It's standard with most of the war veteran gun owners I know, and those they taught it to.

I wasn't taught to short magazines or keep the chamber empty. I was taught to carry the firearm in the manner that it is intended to be carried: with one in the pipe and a proper holster.

Never said they learned it on active duty.  My vietnam veteran uncle carries a Ruger, which has no safety.  One chamber empty.

Just in case someone says "I saw a ruger with a safety".  His does not have one, next?

There are lots of things that old timers do that doesn't make sense. Things like decocking a 1911, which is more dangerous than carrying as it was designed to be carried - cocked and locked.

It is my considered opinion, after thirty years of firearms experience, that if you're doing anything special so that you can pull the trigger and expect something other than a round being fired, you're doing it wrong.

Veteran, cop, or gun store counter jockey, the expectation should always be that pulling the trigger makes the gun fire. Anything else will make a person lax with their trigger discipline and then I'll have to hear their dumb ass saying 'It just went off.'


A couple things.

I was in the Army from 2002 till 2010 and did 3 combat tours with the 101st.  The "hot" condition of your weapon depended on where you were and what you were doing.  The ONLY time you'd have a round in the chamber is if you were about to initiate contact or you were on foot patrol in formation.  While on patrol or guard duty (gate or tower), machine gunners kept a round racked because the weapons fire from an open bolt position.  Other than that, you were toast if they found a round in your chamber.  On the FOB, you better not have a magazine in the weapon or a belt in your machine gun.  Even with all those measures and training, we probably had a negligent discharge once a week, usually into a clearing barrel.

As far as loading your 30 round mags with 30 bullets, that's a stupid thing to do.  20 round mags seemed to be fine with being loaded full as they are straight.  The 30 round mags on the other hand were known for failure to feed.  We were taught to load with 27 rounds in each 30 round mag and put the extra 18 rounds into a 20 round mag.  Yes there are SOOPER COOL aftermarket mags and followers that make it where the malfunctions happened less, but with debris, dust, and sand, you don't take chances.

Lastly, if you carry a 1911 locked and cocked, you need to have your firearm taken from you.  Any decent 1911 or variant isn't hard to hammer cock, and in my experience and training can be accomplished during the draw from the holster and prior to obtaining a sight picture.  If you can't thumbcock a 1911, you don't need to be carrying one.  Not only is it a safety issue to carry cocked, it also weakens your hammer spring which could lead to a failure to fire.
 
2014-08-18 11:31:40 AM

CJHardin: I was in the Army from 2002 till 2010 and did 3 combat tours with the 101st. The "hot" condition of your weapon depended on where you were and what you were doing. The ONLY time you'd have a round in the chamber is if you were about to initiate contact or you were on foot patrol in formation. While on patrol or guard duty (gate or tower), machine gunners kept a round racked because the weapons fire from an open bolt position. Other than that, you were toast if they found a round in your chamber. On the FOB, you better not have a magazine in the weapon or a belt in your machine gun. Even with all those measures and training, we probably had a negligent discharge once a week, usually into a clearing barrel.

As far as loading your 30 round mags with 30 bullets, that's a stupid thing to do. 20 round mags seemed to be fine with being loaded full as they are straight. The 30 round mags on the other hand were known for failure to feed. We were taught to load with 27 rounds in each 30 round mag and put the extra 18 rounds into a 20 round mag. Yes there are SOOPER COOL aftermarket mags and followers that make it where the malfunctions happened less, but with debris, dust, and sand, you don't take chances.

Lastly, if you carry a 1911 locked and cocked, you need to have your firearm taken from you. Any decent 1911 or variant isn't hard to hammer cock, and in my experience and training can be accomplished during the draw from the holster and prior to obtaining a sight picture. If you can't thumbcock a 1911, you don't need to be carrying one. Not only is it a safety issue to carry cocked, it also weakens your hammer spring which could lead to a failure to fire.


Good post.

/not snark
 
2014-08-18 11:33:27 AM
FTA: "The gun accidentally discharged, and the bullet traveled across Helen's tourist-laden Main Street and struck the woman in the side."

What was she doing by the street? Three times as many people are accidentally killed by cars than by guns. She was crazy.
 
2014-08-18 11:38:37 AM

DrPainMD: FTA: "The gun accidentally discharged, and the bullet traveled across Helen's tourist-laden Main Street and struck the woman in the side."

What was she doing by the street? Three times as many people are accidentally killed by cars than by guns. She was crazy.


Don't hurt yourself.
 
2014-08-18 11:39:30 AM

dittybopper: muck1969: It's okay, that person's right to live is not n the Constitution.  Because if there's anything that can stop an accidental discharge from killing someone is another accidental discharge.  Guns everywhere without requiring training or certification makes our society safer as all gun owners always behave responsibly and act rationally.

Actually, there is a right to life in the US Constitution:

Fifth Amendment:
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

But like all rights protected in the Bill of Rights, it protects them against government encroachment, not against the depredations of private actors.


Mostly because it is a pact between the gov't and the people. We have criminal and civil laws to deal with social contracts between people and he is being charged accordingly just as rule of law dictates.

In other words, the system is working fine in this case. The guy farked up, someone got killed, he's going to pay for it.
 
2014-08-18 11:39:45 AM

skozlaw: Bit'O'Gristle: ...i choose to defend myself and not just lay down for it.

I chose not to live in a rejected Mad Max movie script. Seemed easier than your way.

cwbysfan: Because if you truly cared about the loss of life then you would cry and yell just as loud about making cars safer and mandatory lessons

Oh, yea, because if there's one thing that hasn't happened in the last 30 years it's massive advances in automotive safety.


Insane how little we've done in this field, huh?

WHEN are we going to focus on car safety in this country? WHEN!?


I never said we didn't have safe cars & not sure how you infered that.  I only stated that the most noise is about trying to protect innocents from guns when they are the least of what we need protected from.  I do not disagree with what you said, I only want confirmation that you dont care that people died only what they died from.  Because if you don't want stricter regulations on who operates a car & what state of mind they are in when operating it then you are a hypocrite & (for lack of a better word) scared of the scary looking gun.

Did you know my car literally can't crash into anything in front of it provided whatever the object is doesn't pull out with less than the minimum space physically required by the brakes to bring the car to a stop? My car is so wildly unsafe it stops itself. Has something like 8 air bags and the front end has been designed specifically to reduce impact injuies to pedestrians should it go off by accident and hit one.

And yet we still lose more lives because of that than anything else.  But where is the outrage?  That is all I'm wondering.

I think you may have me confused for a gun humping weekend warrior wannabe, I am not.  I do own guns mostly for hunting, but have pistols & non-hunting rifles as well.  I demand for better regulation in who is going to be owning any firearm & training in both safety & operatation of them as well.  I would trade in all of my guns if that meant every other gun in the world was also gone(maybe not active military though)  But because I realize that is not going to happen I want to be on equal or better footing with anyone that would attempt to do harm to me or my family.
 
2014-08-18 11:47:02 AM

Bit'O'Gristle: LazyMedia: Bit'O'Gristle: Just because I choose to be able to defend myself, doesn't in any sense make me paranoid. It makes me prepared in case something does happen. That doesn't mean i walk around with paranoid delusions of being a hero, it just means that i have chosen to be able to defend myself if need be.

You are not prepared, unless you're wearing body armor and are a trained gun fighter. All you've done by carrying a pistol is up the stakes; you can now choose to turn a mugging into a gun fight. This isn't a defensive or protective strategy.

/sure it is. First of all, i am highly trained in the use of arms. ARMY, Police, etc.  Second of all, i don't agree with your "up the stakes" comment.  A mugger is going to be armed, generally with a knife, or even a gun.  If i had no weapon to defend myself, i would be forced  to do one of two things. 1. hand him my cash, and hope he doesn't kill me as a witness, or 2. use my fists and hope he doesn't kill me with his gun / knife.   This option makes you the "victim" no matter if you win or not.  You are pretty much at his mercy.  Now, if i have my sidearm, and he has a knife or gun, i at least have a chance to defend my life and property. Sure, i could still get shot or stabbed, but i could get shot or stabbed if i had no weapon in the first place.  At least this would give me a chance to fight back.  And muggers are generally cowards. Same with those scumbags that rob convenient stores. They want the cash, and no struggle.  Look at the youtube vids.  Every time the owner pulls out a firearm to defend his life, and his property, the robbers run like the little cowards they are.  They want a nice compliant non combative victim. It really comes down to if you are willing to defend yourself or not. It's totally up to you.


You open with a point about how dangerous muggers are because they might kill you, and then close with the realization that they don't want to kill you, have a vested interest in not killing you, because life in prison is not worth the 50 odd dollars you might be carrying. You discredited your own argument, congratulations.
 
2014-08-18 11:47:04 AM
i6.photobucket.com

Understands completely, could totally happen to anyone.
 
2014-08-18 11:47:13 AM

jaybeezey: dittybopper: muck1969: It's okay, that person's right to live is not n the Constitution.  Because if there's anything that can stop an accidental discharge from killing someone is another accidental discharge.  Guns everywhere without requiring training or certification makes our society safer as all gun owners always behave responsibly and act rationally.

Actually, there is a right to life in the US Constitution:

Fifth Amendment:
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

But like all rights protected in the Bill of Rights, it protects them against government encroachment, not against the depredations of private actors.

Mostly because it is a pact between the gov't and the people. We have criminal and civil laws to deal with social contracts between people and he is being charged accordingly just as rule of law dictates.

In other words, the system is working fine in this case. The guy farked up, someone got killed, he's going to pay for it.


So all the tourists in Helen should just go back to walking around, waiting for another open carry idiot to pop off another round. Nothing to change the situation so that tourists can visit without being shot while shopping?
 
2014-08-18 11:51:51 AM

CJHardin: I was in the Army from 2002 till 2010 and did 3 combat tours with the 101st. The "hot" condition of your weapon depended on where you were and what you were doing. The ONLY time you'd have a round in the chamber is if you were about to initiate contact or you were on foot patrol in formation. While on patrol or guard duty (gate or tower), machine gunners kept a round racked because the weapons fire from an open bolt position. Other than that, you were toast if they found a round in your chamber. On the FOB, you better not have a magazine in the weapon or a belt in your machine gun. Even with all those measures and training, we probably had a negligent discharge once a week, usually into a clearing barrel.


Interesting insights. But I'd argue that if you're carrying a gun in civilian life, it's the same as foot patrol. You're expecting something MIGHT happen, and want to be ready. Swords and knives of course are always loaded, not that we get too many Capulets on the mean streets. Which is a shame, really. I love swept hilt rapiers and think gangs would look awesome in color coordinated Musketeer outfits.
 
2014-08-18 11:52:23 AM
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Except when guns kill people.
 
2014-08-18 11:54:10 AM

Bit'O'Gristle: I'm a firm believer that in today's society, where gang shootings, armed robberies, muggings, etc..happen, a armed society is a polite society. Sure, you get the occasional moron like in this story, but darwin seems to weed those out. If in a town, or city, it is common for people to wear a weapon for self defense, it is far less likely that some asshole will try to rob, mug, or commit a robbery of a store, bank, etc...when there is a great chance that most if not all of the people there are armed and able to defend themselves. Criminals want cash, not gunfire. So they go for the "soft" targets that they know are easy cash.Hell, look at any town in a state where people commonly carry. You don't see allot of bank robberies, muggings, or general felonies that you see in cities where nobody is allowed to defend themselves. Generally thugs will not try to rob someone / someplace where they know people are able to defend their property / lives.


You're a firm believer that a a society that has lots of gun violence is a polite society? We have idiots running around everywhere shooting unarmed people, people setting traps so they can "stand their ground", we have concealed carry permit holders firing at the backs of fleeing robbers who state they were "trying to defend the cop" chasing him.

Violent crime is down everywhere in America from where it was 20 years ago, but you hold on to your willfully ignorant belief that you need your guns now more than ever. It's just farking stuff. Is your stuff really worth the life of another human?
 
2014-08-18 11:54:26 AM

Mock26: Man gets drunk, runs over child, kills child.  Where is the call to ban alcohol?


Elderly man drives car into crowd at farmers market.  Where is the call to ban old?
 
2014-08-18 11:54:55 AM
If you're going to insist that your country be the Old West, occasionally people will do dumb shiat with guns in public, shoot family members by accident, etc. Such is life.
 
2014-08-18 11:56:01 AM

DrPainMD: FTA: "The gun accidentally discharged, and the bullet traveled across Helen's tourist-laden Main Street and struck the woman in the side."

What was she doing by the street? Three times as many people are accidentally killed by cars than by guns. She was crazy.


img.fark.net
 
2014-08-18 11:57:14 AM

doglover: CJHardin: I was in the Army from 2002 till 2010 and did 3 combat tours with the 101st. The "hot" condition of your weapon depended on where you were and what you were doing. The ONLY time you'd have a round in the chamber is if you were about to initiate contact or you were on foot patrol in formation. While on patrol or guard duty (gate or tower), machine gunners kept a round racked because the weapons fire from an open bolt position. Other than that, you were toast if they found a round in your chamber. On the FOB, you better not have a magazine in the weapon or a belt in your machine gun. Even with all those measures and training, we probably had a negligent discharge once a week, usually into a clearing barrel.

Interesting insights. But I'd argue that if you're carrying a gun in civilian life, it's the same as foot patrol. You're expecting something MIGHT happen, and want to be ready. Swords and knives of course are always loaded, not that we get too many Capulets on the mean streets. Which is a shame, really. I love swept hilt rapiers and think gangs would look awesome in color coordinated Musketeer outfits.


I'm never expecting that something might happen.  Holy FSM, what combat zone do you live in?  I own guns, and I sometimes keep one in my car, but I don't feel the need to carry unless I'm going to the range.

So you don't think that I live in Niceville and don't have crime around me, I live in Charleston, SC.  I could carry concealed in a bar if I wanted to, but I'd never consider it.
 
2014-08-18 11:57:55 AM

born_yesterday: CJHardin: I was in the Army from 2002 till 2010 and did 3 combat tours with the 101st. The "hot" condition of your weapon depended on where you were and what you were doing. The ONLY time you'd have a round in the chamber is if you were about to initiate contact or you were on foot patrol in formation. While on patrol or guard duty (gate or tower), machine gunners kept a round racked because the weapons fire from an open bolt position. Other than that, you were toast if they found a round in your chamber. On the FOB, you better not have a magazine in the weapon or a belt in your machine gun. Even with all those measures and training, we probably had a negligent discharge once a week, usually into a clearing barrel.

As far as loading your 30 round mags with 30 bullets, that's a stupid thing to do. 20 round mags seemed to be fine with being loaded full as they are straight. The 30 round mags on the other hand were known for failure to feed. We were taught to load with 27 rounds in each 30 round mag and put the extra 18 rounds into a 20 round mag. Yes there are SOOPER COOL aftermarket mags and followers that make it where the malfunctions happened less, but with debris, dust, and sand, you don't take chances.

Lastly, if you carry a 1911 locked and cocked, you need to have your firearm taken from you. Any decent 1911 or variant isn't hard to hammer cock, and in my experience and training can be accomplished during the draw from the holster and prior to obtaining a sight picture. If you can't thumbcock a 1911, you don't need to be carrying one. Not only is it a safety issue to carry cocked, it also weakens your hammer spring which could lead to a failure to fire.

Good post.

/not snark


1911 was designed to be carried cocked and locked.  That's why it has the grip safety and the thumb safety.  Also, you don't weaken a spring by leaving it in a static state.  You weaken it by compressing and stretching it, ie normal cycling.
 
2014-08-18 12:01:26 PM

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: So all the tourists in Helen should just go back to walking around, waiting for another open carry idiot to pop off another round. Nothing to change the situation so that tourists can visit without being shot while shopping?


Your hyperbole is showing. How embarassing.
 
2014-08-18 12:05:59 PM

mdeesnuts: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: So all the tourists in Helen should just go back to walking around, waiting for another open carry idiot to pop off another round. Nothing to change the situation so that tourists can visit without being shot while shopping?

Your hyperbole is showing. How embarassing.


So your answer is no, not a thing should change. Be sure and tell that to the victim's survivors.
 
2014-08-18 12:07:45 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: LazyMedia: Bit'O'Gristle: Just because I choose to be able to defend myself, doesn't in any sense make me paranoid. It makes me prepared in case something does happen. That doesn't mean i walk around with paranoid delusions of being a hero, it just means that i have chosen to be able to defend myself if need be.

You are not prepared, unless you're wearing body armor and are a trained gun fighter. All you've done by carrying a pistol is up the stakes; you can now choose to turn a mugging into a gun fight. This isn't a defensive or protective strategy.

/sure it is. First of all, i am highly trained in the use of arms. ARMY, Police, etc.  Second of all, i don't agree with your "up the stakes" comment.  A mugger is going to be armed, generally with a knife, or even a gun.  If i had no weapon to defend myself, i would be forced  to do one of two things. 1. hand him my cash, and hope he doesn't kill me as a witness, or 2. use my fists and hope he doesn't kill me with his gun / knife.   This option makes you the "victim" no matter if you win or not.  You are pretty much at his mercy.  Now, if i have my sidearm, and he has a knife or gun, i at least have a chance to defend my life and property. Sure, i could still get shot or stabbed, but i could get shot or stabbed if i had no weapon in the first place.  At least this would give me a chance to fight back.  And muggers are generally cowards. Same with those scumbags that rob convenient stores. They want the cash, and no struggle.  Look at the youtube vids.  Every time the owner pulls out a firearm to defend his life, and his property, the robbers run like the little cowards they are.  They want a nice compliant non combative victim. It really comes down to if you are willing to defend yourself or not. It's totally up to you.


More than 95 percent of muggings (personal robberies) do not result in injury to the victim. You're at the mercy of everybody within punching distance of you, if you look at it that way. Fighting back is a bad option unless you're attacked. Just give them the freakin' money.
 
2014-08-18 12:08:19 PM

doglover: But I'd argue that if you're carrying a gun in civilian life, it's the same as foot patrol.


"My fantasy of fighting thugs in suburban American is the same as a US soldier in Iraq or Afghanistan walking foot patrol".

lol wanker lol
 
2014-08-18 12:09:33 PM
..Of course, HB 60 will be blamed ...


Oh no, it was clearly Obama's fault.
 
2014-08-18 12:11:59 PM

fusillade762: An idiot shot someone. Surely the cure for this problem is more idiots with firearms.


Guns are great! :D they clearly make our world and this country a better place!
 
2014-08-18 12:12:13 PM

AngryDragon: It's the law of the land. Move on.


And it's an attitude like that that has given our country the sweeping changes that made us great.  The New Deal, the Civil Rights act, food safety reform.  All of those were accomplished because somebody had the sense to say, "it's the law of the land, move on," shrug, and walk away.
 
2014-08-18 12:13:06 PM

jaytkay: doglover: But I'd argue that if you're carrying a gun in civilian life, it's the same as foot patrol.

"My fantasy of fighting thugs in suburban American is the same as a US soldier in Iraq or Afghanistan walking foot patrol".

lol wanker lol


There was a farker who would open carry while walking his dog in his neighborhood. The gang members would laugh at his gun and tell him to go ahead and shoot them. You feel terrible for people having to live among violent savages but I know from experience what's like to have a gun and not be able to use it because the guy you killed while you were defending your property has friends and they will kill you for killing one of theirs.
 
2014-08-18 12:13:39 PM

enry: Olo Manolo: enry: Olo Manolo: So in other words, somebody got shot and it had absolutely nothing to do with this law being passed?? "but,but, guns!"


"Man dies in car crash 3 days after eating ham sandwich. Ham sandwich under close investigation"

If you are allowed to drive a car anywhere and people get run over in a church, isn't it a good idea to make sure cars stay on the road and drivers have adequate training and cars are made safer?

Not a single thing you said has anything whatsoever to do with my statement.. I'm going to have to assume you intended to quote somebody else?? But just in case....

The GA carry law changed absolutely nothing about the situation. The man could have legally carried there before the law, and he could still legally carry there after the law.

You don't think gun owners should get adequate training? Got it.


I'm not sure I should even engage you... you clearly have issues with reading/comprehension, so I kinda feel like I'm fighting a Potato...

However, I'm always up to learn something just in case there is something I missed along the way. So please, be a dear and tell me what part of my statement led you to believe ANYTHING like what you claim I think.. I said absolutely nothing about training requirements, so I'm (kinda) interested in where this goes...
 
2014-08-18 12:14:29 PM
It's almost like allowing mostly untrained people who aren't members of law enforcement to carry a gun around wherever they go is a bad idea or somethin'.
 
2014-08-18 12:15:16 PM

SquiggsIN: I'm not pro-gun enough to think the NRA is sane but, I'm far too pro-gun to please most of Fark it seems.  I don't think we're really safer with more people carrying everywhere they go because people are stupid and they do stupid things.  Where I live it's really not unusual to see someone walk into a gas station or a restaurant with a gun on their hip and that doesn't bother me at all but, I'll keep my guns in my home/vehicles 99% of the time.

<Insert generic pro-gun sentiment>

cue : oh this thread again.jpg


I'm the same way. My support for the second amendment and open/conceal carry only goes as far as my faith in people's intelligence and good judgement.

/not that far
 
2014-08-18 12:18:14 PM

cwbysfan: Because if you don't want stricter regulations on who operates a car & what state of mind they are in when operating it then you are a hypocrite


You should probably ask me about that then.

cwbysfan: But where is the outrage? That is all I'm wondering.


You're just asking questions!

Kindly explain who I would direct my outrage at that isn't already engaged in attempts to improve road and car safety? Car makers come up with a practical idea, they implement it. Road engineers come up with a practical idea, they implement it. Lawmakers comes up with a practical idea, they implement it.

Ain't no National Car Association out there trying to keep cars dangerous. Cars weren't designed to kill people so nobody opposes efforts to make them and their use safer. You know, unlike guns. Which are designed to kill things.

You've officially driven the analogy off the rails, across the yard and plowed it head-first into a crowd waiting on the platform for a whole different analogy. Good jerb.
 
2014-08-18 12:19:31 PM

CJHardin: Holy FSM, what combat zone do you live in?


I don't live in a war zone. I don't feel the need to carry any weapons at all. If I decided to carry a gun loaded, it would be for a reason, and that would require it to be loaded and ready. Just like a foot patrol or something.

I knew a guy who carried a pistol. Former drug dealer, gang connections, etc. We lived in the same apartment building. He carried a loaded gun, I left my door not only unlocked, but open for the air flow. For him, it was a dangerous neighborhood. For me it was just another in a string of safe domiciles. For contrast, I'm sure there's places he'd have felt safe I'd have wanted to borrow his pistol. And in rural areas, with bears and such, you don't want to try and fiddle with the action either.

Just in general, my feeling is that if you think you will have time to put a round into the chamber in a bad sich, you don't need to be carrying a gun.
 
2014-08-18 12:20:19 PM
thaylin: Olo Manolo: So in other words, somebody got shot and it had absolutely nothing to do with this law being passed?? "but,but, guns!"


"Man dies in car crash 3 days after eating ham sandwich. Ham sandwich under close investigation"

To be honest we dont know it had nothing to do with the law. If you read the article the man was a drunk, and bars are a place that they are allowed to carry guns now. So if he was coming from a bar then it does have something to do with the law.



 False. Even if he was a drunk, the law still stipulates that one can not be intoxicated while in possession of a firearm. Assuming he was drunk, he disregarded the law. Therefore, "it had absolutely nothing to do with this law being passed".
 
2014-08-18 12:20:37 PM

skozlaw: Ain't no National Car Association out there trying to keep cars dangerous.


This is a fantastic idea.  Seatbelts, airbags, unibody construction:  somewhere out there are nutbags that will pay good money to get rid of these and anything else you could come up with.  That's an untapped gold mine.
 
2014-08-18 12:21:11 PM

jaytkay: "My fantasy of fighting thugs in suburban American is the same as a US soldier in Iraq or Afghanistan walking foot patrol" Romeo and Juliet".


Gang violence can make a nice backdrop for star crossed love.
 
2014-08-18 12:21:52 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: Egoy3k: Bit'O'Gristle: I'm a firm believer that in today's society, where gang shootings, armed robberies, muggings, etc..happen, a armed society is a polite society. Sure, you get the occasional moron like in this story, but darwin seems to weed those out. If in a town, or city, it is common for people to wear a weapon for self defense, it is far less likely that some asshole will try to rob, mug, or commit a robbery of a store, bank, etc...when there is a great chance that most if not all of the people there are armed and able to defend themselves. Criminals want cash, not gunfire. So they go for the "soft" targets that they know are easy cash.Hell, look at any town in a state where people commonly carry. You don't see allot of bank robberies, muggings, or general felonies that you see in cities where nobody is allowed to defend themselves. Generally thugs will not try to rob someone / someplace where they know people are able to defend their property / lives.

There were, 5,086 bank robberies in the US in 2011
A total of 3 people were killed who were not the actual robbers 2 of those were police officers.
there were 73 injuries that were not the perpetrator.

Arizona, Florida, and Texas had 210, 214, and 294 robberies and New York (the state) had 339.

California had 687.

Lets adjust these for population.  (robberies per 100,000 people)

CA 1.84
NY 1.75
FL 1.09
TX 1.11
AZ 3.18

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/bank-crime-statistics -2 011/bank-crime-statistics-2011


In other words, bank robberies are neither a problem nor are the rampant in states with stricter gun laws in comparison with states with more relaxed gun control.

I could no go on to refute the regular robberies claim, and the violent crime stuff too but honestly I doubt you'll even read this.  Violent crime is way down in the US and it has nothing to do with guns or the lack of guns.  It's completely unrelated and to believe that you need a gun to protect yourself ask any person who ...


The truly criminal mind actually doesn't care.  If they think the owner is armed then they just try to get the jump on them, not avoid the place.  It's a challenge to the criminal mind to be criminal in the first place and not get caught or injured.  "Getting away with it" is the whole point of being a criminal.  It's a sociopathic tendency and the idea that their "victim" is armed just ups the endorphin release.

It just doesn't work the way the pro-gun narrative wants us to accept.

/is a criminal
 
2014-08-18 12:24:02 PM

mcmnky: Any recommendations on a good gun safe?

I have 4 rifles, 4 hand guns.  Would like room for ammunition and other accessories.

All the fire arms are locked in their individual cases.  Figure it's time for the one big enclosure.


If you live where there's a Bass Pro Shop nearby...
http://www.basspro.com/RedHead-24-Gun-Fire-Resistant-Safe/product/13 02 210950/

24 gun safe sounds huge, but when you install the shelves it's less than half of that.  435 pounds, unassuming looking, US made.  Get a small rack to hold the handguns, some stick-on lights to place inside, & Bob's your uncle.
 
2014-08-18 12:24:35 PM

lewismarktwo: 1911 was designed to be carried cocked and locked.  That's why it has the grip safety and the thumb safety.  Also, you don't weaken a spring by leaving it in a static state.  You weaken it by compressing and stretching it, ie normal cycling.


They made it where you could half cock it for a reason.  It prevents it from firing if it's dropped with the hammer down and inadvertently when the safety is off.  Carrying a round in the chamber is just fine with me.

As far as the springs are concerned, yes, springs do weaken under constant load, and they weaken much faster under repetitive load, thus the reason that springs in aircraft that assist in jettisoning things are replaced during routine maintenance.
 
2014-08-18 12:26:03 PM

Reverend Monkeypants: /is a criminal


Do you skulk?

/ skulking is underrated
 
2014-08-18 12:27:25 PM

CJHardin: I'm never expecting that something might happen. Holy FSM, what combat zone do you live in? I own guns, and I sometimes keep one in my car, but I don't feel the need to carry unless I'm going to the range.

So you don't think that I live in Niceville and don't have crime around me, I live in Charleston, SC. I could carry concealed in a bar if I wanted to, but I'd never consider it.



You mean the place voted friendliest city in the nation and filled full of gated communities, private island resorts, and vacation destinations? Yeah, that doesn't sound like Niceville at all.
Try moving to Sumter or Florence and see how you feel.

If you don't want to plan for the worst case scenario, that's fine, it's your life to lose, but don't pretend like you're somehow in any position to judge those who want to have tools close to hand when surprises do happen.
 
2014-08-18 12:30:29 PM

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: jaytkay: doglover: But I'd argue that if you're carrying a gun in civilian life, it's the same as foot patrol.

"My fantasy of fighting thugs in suburban American is the same as a US soldier in Iraq or Afghanistan walking foot patrol".

lol wanker lol

There was a farker who would open carry while walking his dog in his neighborhood. The gang members would laugh at his gun and tell him to go ahead and shoot them. You feel terrible for people having to live among violent savages but I know from experience what's like to have a gun and not be able to use it because the guy you killed while you were defending your property has friends and they will kill you for killing one of theirs.


That's why standard magazines carry 30 rounds. For the "friends".
 
2014-08-18 12:32:10 PM

ChaosStar: CJHardin: I'm never expecting that something might happen. Holy FSM, what combat zone do you live in? I own guns, and I sometimes keep one in my car, but I don't feel the need to carry unless I'm going to the range.

So you don't think that I live in Niceville and don't have crime around me, I live in Charleston, SC. I could carry concealed in a bar if I wanted to, but I'd never consider it.


You mean the place voted friendliest city in the nation and filled full of gated communities, private island resorts, and vacation destinations? Yeah, that doesn't sound like Niceville at all.
Try moving to Sumter or Florence and see how you feel.

If you don't want to plan for the worst case scenario, that's fine, it's your life to lose, but don't pretend like you're somehow in any position to judge those who want to have tools close to hand when surprises do happen.


Yes, you are correct, I'd know nothing about worst case scenarios or combative situations with firearms.......

Also, go down N King St after 9 pm and tell me how friendly it is.  Yes, Sumter and Florence are shiatholes but that doesn't mean that Charleston is without it's share of crime.
 
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