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(Some Sports Media Guy)   New allegation that Red Sox great Pedro Martinez took steroids in his prime arises, thanks to (a) MLB investigation (b) miffed dealer (c) Boston sports radio host trolling for calls during boring August   (bostonsportsmedia.com) divider line 60
    More: Stupid  
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834 clicks; posted to Sports » on 17 Aug 2014 at 9:40 PM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-17 08:08:03 PM  
Anyone who still listens to these jackasses (on EITHER station) needs to have their radio privileges removed. If it's not a game, I ain't listening to either station.

\seriously, fark 'em both
 
2014-08-17 09:06:10 PM  
It's only to distract people from the steroid machine that is David Ortiz
 
2014-08-17 09:45:19 PM  

FriarReb98: Anyone who still listens to these jackasses (on EITHER station) needs to have their radio privileges removed. If it's not a game, I ain't listening to either station.

\seriously, fark 'em both


listen.. if these folks didn't have WEEI to keep them occupied, they'd be out on the streets.. is that what you want?
 
2014-08-17 09:54:20 PM  
Are these the same jackasses that were calling for women to get out of sports and back in kitchens?
 
2014-08-17 09:58:05 PM  

Lost Thought 00: Are these the same jackasses that were calling for women to get out of sports and back in kitchens?


That was the jackass from EEI.

I'd defend Felger and Mazz if I had heard the segment.
 
2014-08-17 10:06:10 PM  
He took roids when he was with the Expos?
 
2014-08-17 11:03:42 PM  
Felger is an idiot. He doesn't bring anything to the sports discourse. His only schtick is to stir the pot and have a loud and contrary opinion so it's no surprise.
 
2014-08-17 11:11:45 PM  
Anyone could've been juicing during that time, but there's no reason to suspect Pedro...

Ortiz, on the other hand, was juiced off his gourd, failed a test, and Boston fans still deny he failed that test
 
2014-08-17 11:18:07 PM  
So he fought fire with fire...


I call that an even playing field
 
2014-08-17 11:53:42 PM  
The greatness of Pedro Martinez stems from his freakishly long fingers.  Study it out.
 
2014-08-18 04:02:33 AM  

Dafatone: The greatness of Pedro Martinez stems from his freakishly long fingers.  Study it out.


I want another Three-Finger Brown. Or a Six-Finger Jones or whatever.
 
2014-08-18 04:52:18 AM  
I read the headline as
"New allegation that Red Sox great Pedro Martinez took steroids in his prime arses, thanks to (a) MLB investigation (b) miffed dealer (c) Boston sports radio host trolling for calls during boring August"

Makes the whole thing far more ... intriguing. And raises some interesting questions.
 
2014-08-18 06:58:33 AM  
Isn't he up for HOF consideration next year?
 
2014-08-18 07:09:14 AM  

machoprogrammer: Anyone could've been juicing during that time, but there's no reason to suspect Pedro...

Ortiz, on the other hand, was juiced off his gourd, failed a test, and Boston fans still deny he failed that test


I knew you'd be here.  Still no evidence except wild speculation (just like the radio hosts with Pedro) and yet you think there's a difference. Hysterical.
 
2014-08-18 07:11:02 AM  
Anyone who listens to Newscasters or Sportscasters for anything but comic relief are delusional. Felger X2.
 
2014-08-18 07:16:06 AM  

michaelgvh: Felger is an idiot. He doesn't bring anything to the sports discourse. His only schtick is to stir the pot and have a loud and contrary opinion so it's no surprise.


CSB: He also steals info from callers to get his talking points. I actually called in once (yes, calling a radio show, god help me) and the screener asked me what I wanted to talk about. I said "world cup penalty kicks." They wanted to know specifically what about them. I told them a stat that I had read that was completely contrary to something Felger said. A few minutes later, as I am on hold and listening, Felger suddenly says, "You know, I just remembered something I read not too long ago that said ..." and recites my stat verbatim. My call was dropped.  CONSPIRACY, I TELLS YA!
 
2014-08-18 07:25:11 AM  
Which station was it that played "Ask a pink hat?" Because r/baseball linked to one, and it was kinda funny.
 
2014-08-18 07:54:01 AM  

UNC_Samurai: Which station was it that played "Ask a pink hat?" Because r/baseball linked to one, and it was kinda funny.


That's 98.5 Sports Hub.Out of the two stations, that's definitely the better one.
 
2014-08-18 07:54:45 AM  

WinoRhino: machoprogrammer: Anyone could've been juicing during that time, but there's no reason to suspect Pedro...

Ortiz, on the other hand, was juiced off his gourd, failed a test, and Boston fans still deny he failed that test

I knew you'd be here.  Still no evidence except wild speculation (just like the radio hosts with Pedro) and yet you think there's a difference. Hysterical.


I would say a failed PED test (in 2003) is pretty solid evidence. It isn't like they drug test for cookies; they look for certain compounds, and Ortiz's test contained one (or more) of these compounds. They didn't release which one, but they weren't looking for legal dietary supplements. Drug tests only flag up on  a positive compound or above a certain ratio, and Ortiz's apparently triggered it so, yes, he is guilty. He was also on the same list as Bonds, Sosa, Manny and A-Rod (the 2003 failed test) and we all know how it ended up for those guys.

Oh, wait: Location:Boston-ish, MA

Keep your head in the sand like the other Boston fans. If he was a Yankee, you would definitely feel differently.

Pedro is probably clean. You never know 100% (I wouldn't be shocked if anyone was juicing), but there is no reason to suspect him over anyone else.
 
2014-08-18 08:22:54 AM  
yawn
 
2014-08-18 08:29:48 AM  

machoprogrammer: Keep your head in the sand like the other Boston fans. If he was a Yankee, you would definitely feel differently.


That's the line you resort to every time, even though I consistently demonstrate no bias when discussing baseball. I understand WHY you cling to that, though, as it is the only argument you have.

machoprogrammer: I would say a failed PED test (in 2003) is pretty solid evidence.


There is no evidence that he failed a test in 2003. There's suggestion, of course, mainly from this article. But, like you said, no drugs or details were mentioned. Just leaked anonymous information with no details and no source. So out of one side of your mouth you say it isn't fair to implicate someone without proof. Then you take this type of information and claim it's damning evidence. No other indications-- just rumors from over 11 years ago. Not even a blip since then. Just continued offensive performance. I guess Ortiz must be smarter than everyone else when it comes to the drugs, right? He's just better at it than Braun, or A-Rod, or Cruz, or Peralta, or Tejada.... all the people who have been caught in recent years.

Then there's the matter of the MLBPA statement on the matter (which, I am willing to admit, is flimsy given the source, but nevertheless, equally as valid as your "evidence")
:
"First, the number of players on the so-called "government list" meaningfully exceeds the number of players agreed by the bargaining parties to have tested positive in 2003. Accordingly, the presence of a player's name on any such list does not necessarily mean that the player used a prohibited substance or that the player tested positive under our collectively bargained program."


At least you don't try to argue it from a stats standpoint any longer like you used to. That's some progress I guess.
 
2014-08-18 09:12:37 AM  
Remember that year when he suddenly bulked up to 165 pounds?
 
2014-08-18 09:18:22 AM  

suicide: Dafatone: The greatness of Pedro Martinez stems from his freakishly long fingers.  Study it out.

I want another Three-Finger Brown. Or a Six-Finger Jones or whatever.


"I led the NL in saves in 2000!" ~Antonio Alfonseca
4.bp.blogspot.com

"biatch, please... Tell it to my hall of fame plaque." ~Mordecai Brown
www.bensakoguchi.com
 
2014-08-18 09:23:14 AM  

WinoRhino: machoprogrammer: Keep your head in the sand like the other Boston fans. If he was a Yankee, you would definitely feel differently.

That's the line you resort to every time, even though I consistently demonstrate no bias when discussing baseball. I understand WHY you cling to that, though, as it is the only argument you have.

machoprogrammer: I would say a failed PED test (in 2003) is pretty solid evidence.

There is no evidence that he failed a test in 2003. There's suggestion, of course, mainly from this article. But, like you said, no drugs or details were mentioned. Just leaked anonymous information with no details and no source. So out of one side of your mouth you say it isn't fair to implicate someone without proof. Then you take this type of information and claim it's damning evidence. No other indications-- just rumors from over 11 years ago. Not even a blip since then. Just continued offensive performance. I guess Ortiz must be smarter than everyone else when it comes to the drugs, right? He's just better at it than Braun, or A-Rod, or Cruz, or Peralta, or Tejada.... all the people who have been caught in recent years.

Then there's the matter of the MLBPA statement on the matter (which, I am willing to admit, is flimsy given the source, but nevertheless, equally as valid as your "evidence")
:
"First, the number of players on the so-called "government list" meaningfully exceeds the number of players agreed by the bargaining parties to have tested positive in 2003. Accordingly, the presence of a player's name on any such list does not necessarily mean that the player used a prohibited substance or that the player tested positive under our collectively bargained program."


At least you don't try to argue it from a stats standpoint any longer like you used to. That's some progress I guess.


New hitting coach...yeah that's the ticket. That how Ortiz improved when he came over from MN. Yeah.
 
2014-08-18 09:25:51 AM  

Snubnose: Anyone who listens to Newscasters or Sportscasters for anything but comic relief are delusional. Felger X2.


Yeah, so who can blame Belichick for being so cold to these jerks.
And to think some refer to themselves as a 'journalist'.  Joke
 
2014-08-18 09:32:20 AM  
coedmagazine.files.wordpress.com

www.kmmcoinsandcurrency.com  cache.boston.com

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

Inconceivable!
 
2014-08-18 09:33:06 AM  
Just another August where preseason football outdoes baseball in the ratings.
 
2014-08-18 09:39:08 AM  
I'm guessing Pedro's clean.  You can't say never, especially considering the DR seems to be a hotbed for PED's,

Ortiz?  Who the hell knows, but it wouldn't surprise me since so many hitters did.  I am surprised that he's still a productive hitter into his late-30's, though.  I wonder if there was more sufficient evidence that he did juice, would Red Sox fans treat him like San Fran treats Bonds?
 
2014-08-18 09:46:16 AM  

WinoRhino: There is no evidence that he failed a test in 2003.


Umm, you might want to try to learn better Google skills

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009 /0 7/report_ortiz_ra.html

I want to talk about this situation and I will as soon as I have more answers. In the meantime I want to let you know how I am approaching this situation. One, I have already contacted the Players Association to confirm if this report is true. I have just been told that the report is true.

Straight from Ortiz's mouth.

 But, like you said, no drugs or details were mentioned. Just leaked anonymous information with no details and no source. So out of one side of your mouth you say it isn't fair to implicate someone without proof. Then you take this type of information and claim it's damning evidence. No other indications-- just rumors from over 11 years ago. Not even a blip since then. Just continued offensive performance. I guess Ortiz must be smarter than everyone else when it comes to the drugs, right? He's just better at it than Braun, or A-Rod, or Cruz, or Peralta, or Tejada.... all the people who have been caught in recent years.

See above quote. Ortiz himself confirmed he was on the positive test list. Back in the 2003 testing, they looked for steroid compounds and elevated testosterone levels. Ortiz's piss triggered positive on one of these (the leaker, yes lol at the pun, didn't reveal which compound he tested positive for, which is likely because the person who told the leaker was just "Ortiz tested positive in 2003, lol"), as confirmed by Ortiz in the quote above. False positives in PED tests are nearly unheard of (which is why players don't win appeals ever unless there is a technicality). His piss triggering a positive for a compound = he is guilty.
 
2014-08-18 09:47:57 AM  
Big Head Baseball. It was all the rage.
 
2014-08-18 09:48:54 AM  

H31N0US: WinoRhino: machoprogrammer: Keep your head in the sand like the other Boston fans. If he was a Yankee, you would definitely feel differently.

That's the line you resort to every time, even though I consistently demonstrate no bias when discussing baseball. I understand WHY you cling to that, though, as it is the only argument you have.

machoprogrammer: I would say a failed PED test (in 2003) is pretty solid evidence.

There is no evidence that he failed a test in 2003. There's suggestion, of course, mainly from this article. But, like you said, no drugs or details were mentioned. Just leaked anonymous information with no details and no source. So out of one side of your mouth you say it isn't fair to implicate someone without proof. Then you take this type of information and claim it's damning evidence. No other indications-- just rumors from over 11 years ago. Not even a blip since then. Just continued offensive performance. I guess Ortiz must be smarter than everyone else when it comes to the drugs, right? He's just better at it than Braun, or A-Rod, or Cruz, or Peralta, or Tejada.... all the people who have been caught in recent years.

Then there's the matter of the MLBPA statement on the matter (which, I am willing to admit, is flimsy given the source, but nevertheless, equally as valid as your "evidence")
:
"First, the number of players on the so-called "government list" meaningfully exceeds the number of players agreed by the bargaining parties to have tested positive in 2003. Accordingly, the presence of a player's name on any such list does not necessarily mean that the player used a prohibited substance or that the player tested positive under our collectively bargained program."


At least you don't try to argue it from a stats standpoint any longer like you used to. That's some progress I guess.

New hitting coach...yeah that's the ticket. That how Ortiz improved when he came over from MN. Yeah.


Boston fans aren't known to be based in reality. If Ortiz had pinstripes on, they would be leading the "LOL CHEATER!" chants. But, hell, nearly everyone in 2003 was juicing, so I really don't hold it against Ortiz that he juiced, just that he won't man up and admit it and that Boston fans are in clear denial about it. 

The evidence is pretty overwhelming he was juicing, just based on the piss test alone.
 
2014-08-18 09:56:09 AM  

Krustofsky: I'm guessing Pedro's clean.  You can't say never, especially considering the DR seems to be a hotbed for PED's,

Ortiz?  Who the hell knows, but it wouldn't surprise me since so many hitters did.  I am surprised that he's still a productive hitter into his late-30's, though.  I wonder if there was more sufficient evidence that he did juice, would Red Sox fans treat him like San Fran treats Bonds?



I'm entrenched in the Pedro was clean.  If he did HGH or testosterone, it never showed.  He was so competitive and such a prick to other teams at 160 lbs that if he was on 'roids he'd probably be in jail for murder.

And just a gut feeling, but if Ortiz faced the amount of evidence that mounted against Bonds (and Clemens) and he were told to face it in front of Congress and if indictments were handed down, he'd handle it better than they did.  Bonds and Clemens are still downright indignant jerks about it.  Ortiz would likely fall into the "I'm not here to talk about the past" crowd.

That guy still has Manny's swing, but from the left side and with an extra 50 pounds.  Leads the majors in R'sBI on a team that can't hit.  *shrug*
 
2014-08-18 10:04:03 AM  

H31N0US: New hitting coach...yeah that's the ticket. That how Ortiz improved when he came over from MN. Yeah.


In his last two seasons with MN he hit 18 and 20 HRs but only played 89 and 125 games respectively. Extend that out to his typical full season and he'shiatting 23-25 HRs per year. That shows some signs of power. Then he had reasonable increases each yer up through his prime, playing more games, and then tapered off, continuing to show good power.

I've said it before: I don't know if he did anything or not. But baseless anonymous allegations and trying to prove something like PED use through statistics is foolish. Especially when people making the allegations keep changing their arguments regarding how stats demonstrate such things. Hey, look, Robinson Cano doubled his home run production after 2008. Juice!  Some other player had a steady progression over the course of 5-6 years. Juice! Cy Williams hit 41 out of nowhere in 1923. Juice!
 
2014-08-18 10:07:17 AM  

machoprogrammer: H31N0US: WinoRhino: machoprogrammer: Keep your head in the sand like the other Boston fans. If he was a Yankee, you would definitely feel differently.

That's the line you resort to every time, even though I consistently demonstrate no bias when discussing baseball. I understand WHY you cling to that, though, as it is the only argument you have.

machoprogrammer: I would say a failed PED test (in 2003) is pretty solid evidence.

There is no evidence that he failed a test in 2003. There's suggestion, of course, mainly from this article. But, like you said, no drugs or details were mentioned. Just leaked anonymous information with no details and no source. So out of one side of your mouth you say it isn't fair to implicate someone without proof. Then you take this type of information and claim it's damning evidence. No other indications-- just rumors from over 11 years ago. Not even a blip since then. Just continued offensive performance. I guess Ortiz must be smarter than everyone else when it comes to the drugs, right? He's just better at it than Braun, or A-Rod, or Cruz, or Peralta, or Tejada.... all the people who have been caught in recent years.

Then there's the matter of the MLBPA statement on the matter (which, I am willing to admit, is flimsy given the source, but nevertheless, equally as valid as your "evidence")
:
"First, the number of players on the so-called "government list" meaningfully exceeds the number of players agreed by the bargaining parties to have tested positive in 2003. Accordingly, the presence of a player's name on any such list does not necessarily mean that the player used a prohibited substance or that the player tested positive under our collectively bargained program."


At least you don't try to argue it from a stats standpoint any longer like you used to. That's some progress I guess.

New hitting coach...yeah that's the ticket. That how Ortiz improved when he came over from MN. Yeah.

Boston fans aren't known to be based in reality ...


Or maybe it's a conspiracy.  Is MLB is allowing Ortiz to do roids because he is such a great ambassador for the game?  Let's also not forget he did help bring more than one championship to a team that hasn't won in 90 some years and in doing so, he brought excitement back to one of the largest fan bases in the world.  Was game 7 of the ALCS was also an elaborate plan to boost ratings?

Pedro was one of the best pitchers we will ever see.
Ortiz is still awesome at his age, and apparently he can pass his drug screens, so good on Papi.
 
2014-08-18 10:12:45 AM  

JohnnyRebel88: Or maybe it's a conspiracy.  Is MLB is allowing Ortiz to do roids because he is such a great ambassador for the game?  Let's also not forget he did help bring more than one championship to a team that hasn't won in 90 some years and in doing so, he brought excitement back to one of the largest fan bases in the world.  Was game 7 of the ALCS was also an elaborate plan to boost ratings?

Pedro was one of the best pitchers we will ever see.
Ortiz is still awesome at his age, and apparently he can pass his drug screens, so good on Papi.


I am not saying he is juicing now (I have no idea, but wouldn't be shocked if anyone in particular was juicing). He hasn't failed a test since '03, but the MLB PED test is not hard to beat (ask the Biogenesis guys), so who really knows?

But in 2003, there was no penalty for a failed PED test, so your argument is not exactly valid. The old "HE DIDN'T GET SUSPENDED!111!!" argument doesn't hold water, since again, there was no penalty in 2003 for a positive test and the results were supposed to be anonymous (although they obviously weren't for Bonds, A-Rod, Ortiz, and Manny).
 
2014-08-18 10:26:43 AM  

machoprogrammer: H31N0US: WinoRhino: machoprogrammer: Keep your head in the sand like the other Boston fans. If he was a Yankee, you would definitely feel differently.

That's the line you resort to every time, even though I consistently demonstrate no bias when discussing baseball. I understand WHY you cling to that, though, as it is the only argument you have.

machoprogrammer: I would say a failed PED test (in 2003) is pretty solid evidence.

There is no evidence that he failed a test in 2003. There's suggestion, of course, mainly from this article. But, like you said, no drugs or details were mentioned. Just leaked anonymous information with no details and no source. So out of one side of your mouth you say it isn't fair to implicate someone without proof. Then you take this type of information and claim it's damning evidence. No other indications-- just rumors from over 11 years ago. Not even a blip since then. Just continued offensive performance. I guess Ortiz must be smarter than everyone else when it comes to the drugs, right? He's just better at it than Braun, or A-Rod, or Cruz, or Peralta, or Tejada.... all the people who have been caught in recent years.

Then there's the matter of the MLBPA statement on the matter (which, I am willing to admit, is flimsy given the source, but nevertheless, equally as valid as your "evidence")
:
"First, the number of players on the so-called "government list" meaningfully exceeds the number of players agreed by the bargaining parties to have tested positive in 2003. Accordingly, the presence of a player's name on any such list does not necessarily mean that the player used a prohibited substance or that the player tested positive under our collectively bargained program."


At least you don't try to argue it from a stats standpoint any longer like you used to. That's some progress I guess.

New hitting coach...yeah that's the ticket. That how Ortiz improved when he came over from MN. Yeah.

Boston fans aren't known to be based in reality ...


Most Boston fans do live in reality, you are letting the vocal minority cloud your opinion. Living around here I can tell you that just about every fan I know believes Ortiz to be guilty.
 
2014-08-18 10:29:03 AM  

machoprogrammer: See above quote. Ortiz himself confirmed he was on the positive test list. Back in the 2003 testing, they looked for steroid compounds and elevated testosterone levels. Ortiz's piss triggered positive on one of these (the leaker, yes lol at the pun, didn't reveal which compound he tested positive for, which is likely because the person who told the leaker was just "Ortiz tested positive in 2003, lol"), as confirmed by Ortiz in the quote above. False positives in PED tests are nearly unheard of (which is why players don't win appeals ever unless there is a technicality). His piss triggering a positive for a compound = he is guilty.


Oh for goodness sakes. This is why it's foolish of me to even attempt a reasonable discussion with you. You don't understand what you read. For whatever reason, you think the list in question is verified, true and accurate.

What was determined to be "true" WAS NOT  that he failed a test; what they confirmed to be "true" was that his name was on a list. Period. A list that WAS NOT official. A List that was simply leaked by an anonymous source, with no accompanying evidence, and no source. A list that later proved to contain names that  WERE NOT implicated in anything.Picking and choosing what you want to be true and what you want to be false isn't evidence.

It would be the same as me leaking a list of known murderers to the press anonymously that contained your name. The list includes a bunch of known killers, so the fact that you're on it must prove something, right?


machoprogrammer: Boston fans aren't known to be based in reality. If Ortiz had pinstripes on, they would be leading the "LOL CHEATER!" chants. But, hell, nearly everyone in 2003 was juicing, so I really don't hold it against Ortiz that he juiced, just that he won't man up and admit it and that Boston fans are in clear denial about it. 

The evidence is pretty overwhelming he was juicing, just based on the piss test alone.


As far as we know, he never failed a piss test. An unsubstantiated list from an anonymous source with proven false claims includes Ortiz. There is no other information.

And as usual you default to the "Boston fans hur dur hurrrrr" routine. I've never been one to accuse Yankee players of anything unless there were plenty of facts and actual failed tests. And even then, I really don't say much. People who see me post in these threads know I'm very reasonable. At the risk of sounding like the old cliche of "some of my best friends are minorities", Bernie Williams was one of my favorite players for a long time. I didn't boo Youk or Damon or Ellsbury when they played for New York.  I don't hate the Yankees.

Like I said above to H31N0US, I have no idea if he juiced or not. And neither do you.
 
2014-08-18 10:29:23 AM  

JohnnyRebel88: Or maybe it's a conspiracy.  Is MLB is allowing Ortiz to do roids because he is such a great ambassador for the game?


Oh, stop it.  You're starting to scare the Jeter fans.
 
2014-08-18 10:35:25 AM  

WinoRhino: machoprogrammer: See above quote. Ortiz himself confirmed he was on the positive test list. Back in the 2003 testing, they looked for steroid compounds and elevated testosterone levels. Ortiz's piss triggered positive on one of these (the leaker, yes lol at the pun, didn't reveal which compound he tested positive for, which is likely because the person who told the leaker was just "Ortiz tested positive in 2003, lol"), as confirmed by Ortiz in the quote above. False positives in PED tests are nearly unheard of (which is why players don't win appeals ever unless there is a technicality). His piss triggering a positive for a compound = he is guilty.

Oh for goodness sakes. This is why it's foolish of me to even attempt a reasonable discussion with you. You don't understand what you read. For whatever reason, you think the list in question is verified, true and accurate.

What was determined to be "true" WAS NOT  that he failed a test; what they confirmed to be "true" was that his name was on a list. Period. A list that WAS NOT official. A List that was simply leaked by an anonymous source, with no accompanying evidence, and no source. A list that later proved to contain names that  WERE NOT implicated in anything.Picking and choosing what you want to be true and what you want to be false isn't evidence.

It would be the same as me leaking a list of known murderers to the press anonymously that contained your name. The list includes a bunch of known killers, so the fact that you're on it must prove something, right?


machoprogrammer: Boston fans aren't known to be based in reality. If Ortiz had pinstripes on, they would be leading the "LOL CHEATER!" chants. But, hell, nearly everyone in 2003 was juicing, so I really don't hold it against Ortiz that he juiced, just that he won't man up and admit it and that Boston fans are in clear denial about it. 

The evidence is pretty overwhelming he was juicing, just based on the piss test alone.

As far as we know, he never fail ...


Yeah, I am totally sure they just threw Ortiz's name on that list without reason. There is a huge conspiracy by the drug testing clinic against Ortiz. They were hired by the Yankees and the RAND Corporation with the Saucer People to make David Ortiz look guilty so that the Boston fans would be too disgusted to eat in a fiendish plot to eliminate the meal of supper

 A list that later proved to contain names that   WERE NOTimplicated in anything.Picking and choosing what you want to be true and what you want to be false isn't evidence.

[citation needed]
 
2014-08-18 10:50:11 AM  

machoprogrammer: Yeah, I am totally sure they just threw Ortiz's name on that list without reason. There is a huge conspiracy by the drug testing clinic against Ortiz. They were hired by the Yankees and the RAND Corporation with the Saucer People to make David Ortiz look guilty so that the Boston fans would be too disgusted to eat in a fiendish plot to eliminate the meal of supper


Christ you're a moron.
 
2014-08-18 10:59:07 AM  

WinoRhino: machoprogrammer: Yeah, I am totally sure they just threw Ortiz's name on that list without reason. There is a huge conspiracy by the drug testing clinic against Ortiz. They were hired by the Yankees and the RAND Corporation with the Saucer People to make David Ortiz look guilty so that the Boston fans would be too disgusted to eat in a fiendish plot to eliminate the meal of supper

Christ you're a moron.


You are the one who refuses to believe the overwhelming evidence and thinks there is some conspiracy by the drug testing company against Ortiz. And still waiting on that source that confirms "A list that later proved to contain names that WERE NOT implicated in anything."
 
2014-08-18 11:12:01 AM  
machoprogrammer:
You are the one who refuses to believe the overwhelming evidence and thinks there is some conspiracy by the drug testing company against Ortiz. And still waiting on that source that confirms "A list that later proved to contain names that WERE NOT implicated in anything."

You get what you pay for.  You came into a thread about Pedro Martinez to troll on Ortiz.  What were you expecting?
 
2014-08-18 11:19:53 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: You came into a thread about Pedro Martinez to troll on Ortiz. What were you expecting?


Overwhelming evidence.
 
2014-08-18 12:23:34 PM  

machoprogrammer: You are the one who refuses to believe the overwhelming evidence


[citation needed]
 
2014-08-18 12:51:12 PM  

michaelgvh: Felger is an idiot. He doesn't bring anything to the sports discourse. His only schtick is to stir the pot and have a loud and contrary opinion so it's no surprise.


So..like Colin Cowturd?
 
2014-08-18 12:54:46 PM  
Is this the same clown that claimed he was 100% sure Ken Griffey, Jr. juiced because he got hamstring injuries when he was old?
 
2014-08-18 12:58:32 PM  

WinoRhino: machoprogrammer: You are the one who refuses to believe the overwhelming evidence

[citation needed]


Im still waiting for the citation I asked for from you above :)
 
2014-08-18 12:59:29 PM  
Personally I'm in the "who the fark cares anymore" crowd. If skill and precision in hitting and pitching were improved by PED use, maybe. But its not. It helps you heal faster, so you can keep in rhythm and have more reps/ABs/innings. You can hit the ball harder, but you still have to actually hit it first. (Just ask Adam Dunn.) Same general idea for pitchers, and especially Pedro. People at forgetting how good he was at locating pitches; it wasn't all fastballs, and anyone who did pitch that way wouldn't get far anyway.

I mean, are we gonna accuse Altuve of juicing before he cleared the Monster yesterday because he was around Papi and Pedro??
 
2014-08-18 01:05:58 PM  

machoprogrammer: And still waiting on that source that confirms "A list that later proved to contain names that WERE NOT implicated in anything."



It was a reference to the MLBPA statement that said the number of names on the list, which included Ortiz, contained more names than had actually tested positive in 2003. I'll post it again:

"First, the number of players on the so-called "government list" meaningfully exceeds the number of players agreed by the bargaining parties to have tested positive in 2003 ."

In other words, it was an inaccurate list. Not everyone on the leaked anonymous list had tested positive. I'm just not sure why you think this was an official testing result list-- it was nothing of the sort.

It's meaningless to talk about it any longer since you have irrational hate for Ortiz. It's obvious because you never mention any other player. If there's a thread about steroids, you pop in and mention Ortiz, and only him. Why you hate one of the best clutch hitters in baseball history is beyond me. Unless maybe you're a Tigers fan...

archive.9news.com

(I was at that game. And it was spectacular.)
 
2014-08-18 01:16:59 PM  

machoprogrammer: Im still waiting for the citation I asked for from you above :)


There's THIS as well. Seems most people found it to be speculative at best.
 
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