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(Forbes)   "Dear Mr. President: Why I'm leaving America"   (forbes.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, dual citizenship, U.S. passport, U.S. federal, investment portfolio, u.s. taxes, U.S. Citizenship  
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7190 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Aug 2014 at 12:43 PM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-16 08:58:58 AM  
"My husband is 70 years old and I am 69...neither one of us receives U.S. Social Security"

Well you're both farking idiots so, bye!
 
2014-08-16 09:01:13 AM  
You have lived in Canada for 43 years shouldn't you have wrote this letter to Nixon?
 
2014-08-16 09:06:17 AM  
So the real issue is that she wants to be a US citizen, with all the benefits, including a staffed embassy, for free. Cliven Bundy would approve of her freeloading.
 
2014-08-16 09:07:23 AM  
It seems like they left America a long while ago, and are now simply don't want to be seen as Canuckistanis...
 
2014-08-16 09:10:39 AM  
Regretfully yours,
Marilyn ________


So brave. And real!
 
2014-08-16 09:19:27 AM  
 
2014-08-16 09:51:05 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-08-16 09:56:15 AM  

FlashHarry: [img.fark.net image 300x170]


God damnit. I was just coming back to post this right now.
 
2014-08-16 10:00:59 AM  
I'm sure they just noticed this horrid state of affairs on Jan 20, 2009.
 
2014-08-16 10:13:00 AM  
This places American citizens living in Canada at a distinct disadvantage in planning and saving for our retirement. What have we done to deserve this discriminatory and second class treatment?

Chose to live in a different country for 4 decades?
 
2014-08-16 10:15:46 AM  
Don't let the door hit you
 
2014-08-16 10:33:26 AM  

DamnYankees: This places American citizens living in Canada at a distinct disadvantage in planning and saving for our retirement. What have we done to deserve this discriminatory and second class treatment?

Chose to live in a different country for 4 decades?


Yeah, and they're already Canadian citizens as well.  It's not like it's difficult for Canadians to travel to the US, or that Canadian law is unpredictable enough that maintaining ties to the US Embassy really gives any advantage.

They're effectively Canadian citizens exclusively already.  Why didn't they do this year's ago?
 
2014-08-16 10:38:14 AM  

djkutch: Regretfully yours,
Marilyn ________

So brave. And real!



The poor woman has already given up her last name, and you mock her. For shame!
 
2014-08-16 10:55:24 AM  
I know lots of Canadians who were born in the US as children or young adults.  They live, work and pay taxes as Canadians but starting a couple of years ago started being harassed by the IRS and becoming subject to fines if don't file US tax returns.

Farking stupid.  A 50 co-worker who has been in Canada since she was a toddler had to deal with this recently and also renounced her US citizenship.

I think this was about stopping people for using other country's as tax shelters but they made a complete mess of it.  What they have accomplished instead is preventing a bunch of money going back into the US.

You have to tax money made in the US and stop people living in the US from using foreign tax shelters.  Harassing people working in Canada is idiotic.

Canada has a much better/simpler approach.  You file taxes in Canada in years where you lived/worked in Canada.
 
2014-08-16 10:56:46 AM  
Is it legal to vote in US elections if you don't live here and you also vote in another country?

I can see allowing for people who are temporarily overseas during elections and for military personnel since they certainly deserve a say, but why should a couple that's been living entirely in Canada for 45 years get to have any input on US politics?
 
2014-08-16 11:12:43 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Is it legal to vote in US elections if you don't live here and you also vote in another country?

I can see allowing for people who are temporarily overseas during elections and for military personnel since they certainly deserve a say, but why should a couple that's been living entirely in Canada for 45 years get to have any input on US politics?


Because it's in the Bill of Rights?
 
2014-08-16 11:26:22 AM  

ginandbacon: TuteTibiImperes: Is it legal to vote in US elections if you don't live here and you also vote in another country?

I can see allowing for people who are temporarily overseas during elections and for military personnel since they certainly deserve a say, but why should a couple that's been living entirely in Canada for 45 years get to have any input on US politics?

Because it's in the Bill of Rights?


Care to narrow that down for us?

I'm with Tute; if you don't live here and don't like the tax laws renounce your citizenship. You've already done it de facto by staying away for 43 years and getting Canadian citizenship. WTF are you whining about Marilyn whatever your name is?
 
2014-08-16 11:34:15 AM  

Speaker2Animals: WTF are you whining about Marilyn whatever your name is?


Because she wants to keep the benefits of US citizenship in her back pocket in case she ever needs them, but doesn't think she should have to pay for them. Representation without taxation.
 
2014-08-16 11:36:22 AM  
Dear Forbes.

We want the advantages of holding citizenship in both countries but we don't actually want to pay for any of that so we wrote an overly dramatic letter blaming taxbongo.

Yours in christ,
Some expat retard
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-08-16 11:37:37 AM  
Well, don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.
 
2014-08-16 11:41:49 AM  

aimtastic:  Representation without taxation.


I like that.
 
2014-08-16 11:42:28 AM  
FTFA: In addition, it has become too expensive, too difficult, and frankly, too frightening, to try to comply with all of the tax filing requirements that now apply to citizens living abroad.

Oh, I think I see the problem.  You're dumbasses and/or lazy.  Sorry, Canada, it sounds like they're your problem now.  Stick them in Quebec.  It sounds like they'd fit right in.
 
2014-08-16 11:46:52 AM  
Buh bye

www.miikkulaisen.com/hawt
 
2014-08-16 11:47:09 AM  
I have run into similar problems myself. I recently moved from my home county to a neighboring county, but want to maintain citizenship in my home county so I can vote on the fire board. They let me do this, but I also wanted to be a Fire Assistant-First Class in my home county. The problem is, they told me that to be a Fire Assistant-First Class in this county you have to reside in this county for at least 187 days a year, so I have to remain a Fire Assistant-Second Class. This is causing me tremendous consternation, and I'm thinking of not maintaining citizenship in my home county. This is completely farking unfair.

/WTF?
 
2014-08-16 11:49:57 AM  
The FBAR filing requirements are stupid at best and can be easily avoided if a competent tax planner is used. I would question how much money the couple is earning esp. now that they are retired. US law exempts the first $97,600 for 2013 from US tax on income received while residing in a foreign country. That amount can be raised up to around 250k for a couple depending on the knowledge of the tax preparer. Having resided and paid tax in Canada I know it may be a little byzantine, but if a person can file their own taxes in the US with a little reading they can do the same with Canada.  The retirement mutual fund being held may be a weird beast but with planning it would not have been a problem. The US being the only first world country that taxes individual  worldwide income is strange and should be changed but until the US changes their tax system on corporations and how their US  income is taxed it will stay the same. If the People formed a corp or trust  they could avoid all of the problems mention in the letter and still be in compliance with US law I believe.
 
2014-08-16 11:51:45 AM  

Speaker2Animals: ginandbacon: TuteTibiImperes: Is it legal to vote in US elections if you don't live here and you also vote in another country?

I can see allowing for people who are temporarily overseas during elections and for military personnel since they certainly deserve a say, but why should a couple that's been living entirely in Canada for 45 years get to have any input on US politics?

Because it's in the Bill of Rights?

Care to narrow that down for us?

I'm with Tute; if you don't live here and don't like the tax laws renounce your citizenship. You've already done it de facto by staying away for 43 years and getting Canadian citizenship. WTF are you whining about Marilyn whatever your name is?


Unless you renounce your citizenship, you get to vote *some restrictions may apply. Of course you also have to pay taxes. I know people who spend decades working abroad, should they not have the right to vote?

I'm still trying to figure out why these dunderheads aren't collecting Social Security. I get why they might not bother with Medicaid because Canada, but why walk away from something you've paid into your whole working life? Especially if you care this much about money.

Of course, there's always the slight possibility that we may not have every single last detail about these two masters of high finance..
 
2014-08-16 12:02:25 PM  
buh-bye
 
2014-08-16 12:07:08 PM  
Don't care. Bye.
 
2014-08-16 12:13:54 PM  
Isn't it awesome we're the only country that taxes people like that?

/sarcasm
//it's a huge rule that needs changing
 
2014-08-16 12:17:12 PM  
Marilyn is a law professor at a Canadian university with a law degree from a US ABA accredited law school who is stymied by US tax law who is forced to hire at "great expense" tax attorneys to handle her US taxes?  FFS, does no one else on her faculty have any knowledge of international tax laws, or more likely does no one else on her faculty want to deal with this whiney biatch?
 
2014-08-16 12:17:27 PM  

ginandbacon: TuteTibiImperes: Is it legal to vote in US elections if you don't live here and you also vote in another country?

I can see allowing for people who are temporarily overseas during elections and for military personnel since they certainly deserve a say, but why should a couple that's been living entirely in Canada for 45 years get to have any input on US politics?

Because it's in the Bill of Rights?


It's actually not.  There are constitutional amendments that have extended the right to vote to various groups, but none guarantee that right based on country of residence.

US citizens living in Puerto Rico don't even have the right to vote in US elections.  Which state would their results count for anyway?
 
2014-08-16 12:21:59 PM  
There is definitely no upside for the way the US IRS handles this.  As for a downside, I imagine professionals form the US working outside the US might be encouraged to renounce their citizenship that much earlier to avoid this headache.

Conversely, Canada (and most other countries) don't harass ex-patriots and leave the window open for their professionals returning.

I might be wrong but to me this just represents a brain drain for the US.
 
2014-08-16 12:22:33 PM  

RobertBruce: Isn't it awesome we're the only country that taxes people like that?

/sarcasm
//it's a huge rule that needs changing


It is awesome. You want the benefits of continuing to be a US citizen abroad? Pay for it.
 
2014-08-16 12:25:33 PM  
The comments in this thread so far are breathtaking.

So, basically, although this patriotic couple living abroad clearly loves the United States enough to have played by all the rules for 43 years, they have finally been beaten to a point where they must relinquish their citizenship. This is a cause for celebration, huh?

Well, I guess I can't blame them for leaving... :-(
 
2014-08-16 12:26:31 PM  

stan unusual: Marilyn is a law professor at a Canadian university with a law degree from a US ABA accredited law school who is stymied by US tax law who is forced to hire at "great expense" tax attorneys to handle her US taxes?  FFS, does no one else on her faculty have any knowledge of international tax laws, or more likely does no one else on her faculty want to deal with this whiney biatch?


It's not even that complicated.  She'd have us believe she's a law professor with a degree from a respectable school but can't fill out the farking form.  You can not know a single thing about tax law and still fill out the form if you just follow the instructions.  Hell, there's probably software that'll walk you right through it.
 
2014-08-16 12:27:34 PM  
I know plenty of dual citizens living in Canada, none of which file taxes in the US.
 
2014-08-16 12:29:47 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: ginandbacon: TuteTibiImperes: Is it legal to vote in US elections if you don't live here and you also vote in another country?

I can see allowing for people who are temporarily overseas during elections and for military personnel since they certainly deserve a say, but why should a couple that's been living entirely in Canada for 45 years get to have any input on US politics?

Because it's in the Bill of Rights?

It's actually not.  There are constitutional amendments that have extended the right to vote to various groups, but none guarantee that right based on country of residence.

US citizens living in Puerto Rico don't even have the right to vote in US elections.  Which state would their results count for anyway?


Neither is the "right" to own a gun.

"Consider this instruction to a house-sitter: 'Don't let the dog out at night. Don't feed the dog dry food.' The homeowner returns six weeks later to find the dog dead of starvation. The house-sitter explains, 'You never said there actually was a dog or that if there was one I should feed it, just that I shouldn't let it out or feed it dry food. I did neither.'" --Garrett Epps
 
2014-08-16 12:32:39 PM  

Doctor Funkenstein: stan unusual: Marilyn is a law professor at a Canadian university with a law degree from a US ABA accredited law school who is stymied by US tax law who is forced to hire at "great expense" tax attorneys to handle her US taxes?  FFS, does no one else on her faculty have any knowledge of international tax laws, or more likely does no one else on her faculty want to deal with this whiney biatch?

It's not even that complicated.  She'd have us believe she's a law professor with a degree from a respectable school but can't fill out the farking form.  You can not know a single thing about tax law and still fill out the form if you just follow the instructions.  Hell, there's probably software that'll walk you right through it.


I've filed taxes from Europe. It's no more difficult than doing it here. Before all those fancy computer thingymabobs. And IANAL professor.
 
2014-08-16 12:36:35 PM  

My guess is that this is tied to a policy trying to prevent the rich from having an official residence overseas in a low-tax country to avoid paying US taxes on their inflated salary and investments. I would suggest considering a compromise: allow US residents overseas to deduct foreign income taxes and foreign capital gains taxes actually paid from their corresponding US tax payments, up to the amount owed to the US.

On the other hand, I had no idea what the hell they're talking about when they say "U.S. citizens in Canada [are] prohibited from buying U.S. mutual funds". Checking Google turns up a blurb:

Fidelity Bans U.S. Investors Overseas From Buying Mutual Funds -- Fidelity Investments and other asset managers are telling U.S. clients who live outside the country that they can no longer buy or trade mutual funds in their brokerage accounts. Stephen Austin, a spokesman for the financial-services firm, said the change, effective Aug. 1, was prompted by "today's continually evolving global regulatory environment," but he said it wasn't in response to a specific issue. The change will affect about 50,000 accounts, or less than 0.3% of Fidelity's 20 million accounts, he said. "Customers will not be forced to sell holdings simply because they live in a foreign country," Mr. Austin said. Observers said fund managers are becoming more conservative in the wake of global developments such as the U.S. Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act and other U.S. efforts. Following large settlements paid to the U.S. by Credit Suisse Group AG and BNP Paribas SA, "Other countries are getting angry about the size of the fines and are grumbling about retaliation," said Jonathan Lachowitz, a cross-border investment adviser based in Lexington, Mass., and Lausanne, Switzerland. Mutual funds are regulated differently from other investments and could be a target, he said. Other fund companies also are changing policies for investors who live abroad. A spokesman for Putnam Investments said the firm is no longer accepting additional investments into existing accounts held by non-U.S. residents. The spokesman said the changes were made "in accordance with U.S. anti-money-laundering and 'Know Your Customer' policies" and in response to recent tightening of European laws limiting sales of funds not registered in their jurisdictions.

So, it looks again related to tax dodgers -- but also to some banks deciding that the paperwork isn't worth the profit, and simplifying their own world by getting out of the business. But of course, conservatives only blame the government, not the corporation.

In short, paying US taxes is part of the price of being an American. If you don't think the benefits are worth the price, then it's time to get on with renouncing your US citizenship.
 
2014-08-16 12:49:25 PM  

Destructor: The comments in this thread so far are breathtaking.

So, basically, although this patriotic couple living abroad clearly loves the United States enough to have played by all the rules for 43 years, they have finally been beaten to a point where they must relinquish their citizenship. This is a cause for celebration, huh?

Well, I guess I can't blame them for leaving... :-(


They 'love the United States enough' that they lived in another country for four decades, and decided they couldn't be bothered to pay for the benefits of being a US citizen anymore.

Yet another couple of freeloaders that are Conservative Heroes.
 
2014-08-16 12:50:11 PM  
Unmitigated whiny bullsh*t.
 
2014-08-16 12:52:05 PM  

Destructor: The comments in this thread so far are breathtaking.


You should try the Hot Pockets.
 
2014-08-16 12:53:01 PM  
Because Fark You, I got mine and God forbid it might trickle down on a poor person!
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-08-16 12:53:53 PM  

RobertBruce: Isn't it awesome we're the only country that taxes people like that?

/sarcasm
//it's a huge rule that needs changing


Yes, it is and it doesn't need changing.

The only way you could end up paying US taxes is if the country you are in has lower taxes than the US, and even then the amount paid to the foreign government would be subtracted from what is owned to the US.
 
2014-08-16 12:55:25 PM  
more like 'uninteresting tag', subby.
 
2014-08-16 12:55:48 PM  

mrshowrules: ex-patriots expatriates


Sorry, pet peeve
 
2014-08-16 12:56:04 PM  
Can't blame her.  The beach resorts of Mexico are nice to visit, but no one wants to live there.
 
2014-08-16 12:57:52 PM  
I love how they are "leaving America"  (which they did 43 years ago) because the "unfair" policy of having to pay taxes or fill out a lot of paperwork to keep their US citizenship...well in Canada you have to do the pretty much same thing (pay taxes or fill out a bunch of paperwork).  If you are a Canadian living abroad you usually still have to still pay Canadian taxes.

So they are 'leaving' the US for a country that has a similar policy they hate America for.

What's their point again?

/Conservative heroes.

http://travel.gc.ca/travelling/living-abroad/taxation
 
2014-08-16 12:59:08 PM  

Destructor: The comments in this thread so far are breathtaking.

So, basically, although this patriotic couple living abroad clearly loves the United States enough to have played by all the rules for 43 years, they have finally been beaten to a point where they must relinquish their citizenship. This is a cause for celebration, huh?

Well, I guess I can't blame them for leaving... :-(


In the case of the staggeringly disingenuous and feeble minded, yes. Perhaps they should have chosen a better tax shelter. Behold the power of the market at work. These wholesome patriotic souls have abandoned their country, but want an out, just in case, but for damn sure they don't want to have to pay for it.
 
2014-08-16 12:59:28 PM  
Why send the letter to the President?  Because Presidents have a long history of tax legislation?

She's a AINO (American In Name Only).  By every measure you can come up with, she's Canadian.  fark of, eh!
 
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