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(TampaBay.com (St. Petersburg Tim)   In Florida, the cops can come inside your own home kill you over $2 worth of pot, and still be "acting properly"   (tampabay.com) divider line 275
    More: Florida  
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10078 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Aug 2014 at 9:49 AM (18 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-16 09:30:04 AM  
Can we get an "All crimes must have an actual or potential victim" amendment to the Constitution? We spend too much time, money, effort, and far too many lives on policing consensual acts -- like smoking pot -- when cops could be spending their time preventing violence.

/Need to have a law-talking dude come up with the correct language, so we can restrict things like drunk driving and selling drugs to children.
 
2014-08-16 09:50:34 AM  
Harsh but fair.
 
2014-08-16 09:52:05 AM  
If you cannot do the time then do not do the crime.
 
2014-08-16 09:53:41 AM  
But because the victim is white the mainstream media won't pick up the story.

/amidoinitrite?
 
2014-08-16 09:54:58 AM  
we can restrict things like drunk driving

I'm sure I'll get pasted for this but I firmly believe in the "no harm,no foul" approach to drunk driving (now I'm talking barely drunk and otherwise driving fine, none of this stop everyone and screw folks for having two goddamn drinks with dinner bullshiat, not weaving all over the road). But I also think you should be well screwed for property damage or injury if you are found to be drunk afterward.
 
2014-08-16 09:56:14 AM  
Isn't Florida a "Stand Your Ground" state?  And doesn't that mean this guy was well with in his rights to defend himself from intruders?
 
2014-08-16 09:56:22 AM  

Gobobo: Harsh but fair.


Only if you believe the War on Drugs is justified.
 
2014-08-16 09:56:33 AM  
He was almost out of weed, and then the cops came in and shot him?

Jason and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day.
 
2014-08-16 09:57:55 AM  
$160 worth of weed purchased over 4 months? Wow, you really found scarface there didn't you?

I've probably dropped that much weed while skinning up over the same period.

That's basically sounds more like a toker who occasionally gave into a "friends" whining of "Oh go on dude, just let me have a gram, I'll give you 20 bucks"
 
2014-08-16 09:57:56 AM  
He tried to raise his arm holding a 9mm pistol and got killed over $2 in weed. Boohoo.
 
2014-08-16 09:59:00 AM  

tarheel07: But because the victim is white the mainstream media won't pick up the story.

/amidoinitrite?


We should riot and loot. I have a few things I need. Maybe even burn down a few buildings for the hell of it.
 
2014-08-16 09:59:04 AM  
Let's riot!!!
 
2014-08-16 09:59:49 AM  

Pinko_Commie: $160 worth of weed purchased over 4 months? Wow, you really found scarface there didn't you?

I've probably dropped that much weed while skinning up over the same period.

That's basically sounds more like a toker who occasionally gave into a "friends" whining of "Oh go on dude, just let me have a gram, I'll give you 20 bucks"


That's Grade-A police work there, Lou.

Surprised the damn cops can find a doughnut shop.
 
2014-08-16 10:00:29 AM  
An autopsy corroborated their account, indicating that Westcott was initially shot with his right shoulder pointed forward and his right arm lifted partway up his body.

You can really tell that from looking at a corpse?
 
2014-08-16 10:01:05 AM  
If he had "lots of pot" then it should have been a knock-warrant. It's not like he could flush the quantities of pot required for a military response. On the other hand, because he had so little, it had to be a no-knock warrant to preserve the evidence. Good call, police.
 
2014-08-16 10:02:14 AM  
What a guy with 2 bucks worth of pot 'raising a gun' might look like
www.imfdb.org

"I'll surrender! Don't shoot"

Guess which only two words the cops hear.
 
2014-08-16 10:03:32 AM  

Snarfangel: Can we get an "All crimes must have an actual or potential victim" amendment to the Constitution? We spend too much time, money, effort, and far too many lives on policing consensual acts -- like smoking pot -- when cops could be spending their time preventing violence.

/Need to have a law-talking dude come up with the correct language, so we can restrict things like drunk driving and selling drugs to children.


So, I should be able to go into a national park and start a logging operation, or set up a baby sea turtle boil on the beach?
 
2014-08-16 10:03:43 AM  

Snarfangel: Can we get an "All crimes must have an actual or potential victim" amendment to the Constitution? We spend too much time, money, effort, and far too many lives on policing consensual acts -- like smoking pot -- when cops could be spending their time preventing violence.

/Need to have a law-talking dude come up with the correct language, so we can restrict things like drunk driving and selling drugs to children.


Holy shiat you're a genius. There's no way that your half-assed thought about for 10 seconds idea would cause any problems.

We should have an armchair politician that we elect every few years so that they can fix all the flaws the others can't see.
 
2014-08-16 10:03:55 AM  

saint1975: Isn't Florida a "Stand Your Ground" state?  And doesn't that mean this guy was well with in his rights to defend himself from intruders?


Apparently your not allowed to defend yourself against the police. The cops will argue they "announced" their entrance into the home, so anything seems to go after that point.

What are the chances the victim in this case was sleeping when the cops came in? He probably thought someone was there to rob him.
 
2014-08-16 10:05:07 AM  

Snarfangel: Can we get an "All crimes must have an actual or potential victim" amendment to the Constitution? We spend too much time, money, effort, and far too many lives on policing consensual acts -- like smoking pot -- when cops could be spending their time preventing violence.

/Need to have a law-talking dude come up with the correct language, so we can restrict things like drunk driving and selling drugs to children.


Why do you hate the prison-industrial complex and therefore America?

/it's early, so let me point out that was sarcasm
 
2014-08-16 10:05:29 AM  

drewogatory: we can restrict things like drunk driving

I'm sure I'll get pasted for this but I firmly believe in the "no harm,no foul" approach to drunk driving (now I'm talking barely drunk and otherwise driving fine, none of this stop everyone and screw folks for having two goddamn drinks with dinner bullshiat, not weaving all over the road). But I also think you should be well screwed for property damage or injury if you are found to be drunk afterward.


Self-driving cars will make drunk and drugged driving laws obsolete and none too soon. DWI and "WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!" been the go-to excuse of prohibitionists for a century.
 
2014-08-16 10:05:33 AM  

saint1975: Isn't Florida a "Stand Your Ground" state?  And doesn't that mean this guy was well with in his rights to defend himself from intruders?


Well, I suppose you could say that he had a legal right to defend. At the same time, the cop did too. Cop was faster.
 
2014-08-16 10:07:36 AM  
If a SWAT team is raiding your house, try to not have a gun in your hand. FARK headlines always make it sound like horrible police brutality, then you read the article and it's a whole different story.

TLDR version of article: Drug dealer pulls gun on SWAT team and gets shot.
 
2014-08-16 10:07:55 AM  

Sir Paul: If he had "lots of pot" then it should have been a knock-warrant. It's not like he could flush the quantities of pot required for a military response. On the other hand, because he had so little, it had to be a no-knock warrant to preserve the evidence. Good call, police.


You know how I know you didn't RTFA?

They knocked and announced three times before opening an unlocked door.
 
2014-08-16 10:08:07 AM  

abhorrent1: tarheel07: But because the victim is white the mainstream media won't pick up the story.

/amidoinitrite?

We should riot and loot. I have a few things I need. Maybe even burn down a few buildings for the hell of it.


Time to crack open the neighbor's skull and feast on the sweet too inside
 
2014-08-16 10:08:59 AM  
For the life of me, I don't understand why they can't just wait him to leave the house and grab him.
 
2014-08-16 10:09:38 AM  

Prophet of Loss: drewogatory: we can restrict things like drunk driving

I'm sure I'll get pasted for this but I firmly believe in the "no harm,no foul" approach to drunk driving (now I'm talking barely drunk and otherwise driving fine, none of this stop everyone and screw folks for having two goddamn drinks with dinner bullshiat, not weaving all over the road). But I also think you should be well screwed for property damage or injury if you are found to be drunk afterward.

Self-driving cars will make drunk and drugged driving laws obsolete and none too soon. DWI and "WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!" been the go-to excuse of prohibitionists for a century.


Prohibitionists NEVER stop thinking of the children and the ways their little minds are warped if they aren't controlled absolutely.
 
2014-08-16 10:09:46 AM  
Shoot a cop entering your home at 3 AM on a "no-knock" warrant? You're cop killer who will spend a good long time in prison.

Cop shoots you and/or your dog during said raid? He's a hero.
 
2014-08-16 10:10:05 AM  
It's very telling that the SWAT officer describes his story as "squeezed two rounds at the suspect" rather that something like "discharged my weapon". The former makes it sound like he was expecting to shoot rather than a last resort sort of thing.
 
2014-08-16 10:10:09 AM  
Is this the guy who got a bunch of calls threatening to steal specific items from his home, so he called the police to ask what to do and they told him he had the right to use deadly force on intruders?

If so - the threatening calls combined with the anonymous tip off to the cops about the gun look a lot like someone wanted this dude to die during the raid.
 
2014-08-16 10:10:27 AM  
He had called the cops before because he felt threatened.

He kept a gun because he felt threatened.

The cops burst into his apartment on a no-knock raid and shoot the guy because he has a gun, that, according to the article, they already knew he had.

Every cop & supervisor involved in this deserves jail time for murder.
 
2014-08-16 10:11:05 AM  

GDubDub: Snarfangel: Can we get an "All crimes must have an actual or potential victim" amendment to the Constitution? We spend too much time, money, effort, and far too many lives on policing consensual acts -- like smoking pot -- when cops could be spending their time preventing violence.

/Need to have a law-talking dude come up with the correct language, so we can restrict things like drunk driving and selling drugs to children.

So, I should be able to go into a national park and start a logging operation, or set up a baby sea turtle boil on the beach?


The Government can be a victim of a property crime - such as theft.  The logging on Federal land without a permit is definitely that.  Pass a law that essentially makes endangered species (or "game" species that are out of season) Federal property, and you cover the cook -too.
 
2014-08-16 10:11:20 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: For the life of me, I don't understand why they can't just wait him to leave the house and grab him.


Pot head? Given enough pot and Doritos it could take months.

/pot should be legal, but just saying
 
2014-08-16 10:11:52 AM  

lucksi: An autopsy corroborated their account, indicating that Westcott was initially shot with his right shoulder pointed forward and his right arm lifted partway up his body.

You can really tell that from looking at a corpse?


You know it's, like, 2014, right?
Not 1950.
 
2014-08-16 10:11:56 AM  

saint1975: Isn't Florida a "Stand Your Ground" state?  And doesn't that mean this guy was well with in his rights to defend himself from intruders?


Doesn't matter whether or not it's a Stand Your Ground state, it matters whether the cops identified themselves properly.

If they didn't, then they had to make sure he didn't survive to say so.

They were probably going to plant more that $2 worth, but smoked too much on the ride over there.
 
2014-08-16 10:14:12 AM  

TommyDeuce: GDubDub: Snarfangel: Can we get an "All crimes must have an actual or potential victim" amendment to the Constitution? We spend too much time, money, effort, and far too many lives on policing consensual acts -- like smoking pot -- when cops could be spending their time preventing violence.

/Need to have a law-talking dude come up with the correct language, so we can restrict things like drunk driving and selling drugs to children.

So, I should be able to go into a national park and start a logging operation, or set up a baby sea turtle boil on the beach?

The Government can be a victim of a property crime - such as theft.  The logging on Federal land without a permit is definitely that.  Pass a law that essentially makes endangered species (or "game" species that are out of season) Federal property, and you cover the cook -too.


Oops, looks like I dropped and "out" there.  cook-out too.

I suppose you could just name the turtles as victims too.  We'd still want laws against animal cruelty and bestiality.
 
2014-08-16 10:17:26 AM  

Antagonism: Snarfangel: Can we get an "All crimes must have an actual or potential victim" amendment to the Constitution? We spend too much time, money, effort, and far too many lives on policing consensual acts -- like smoking pot -- when cops could be spending their time preventing violence.

/Need to have a law-talking dude come up with the correct language, so we can restrict things like drunk driving and selling drugs to children.

Holy shiat you're a genius. There's no way that your half-assed thought about for 10 seconds idea would cause any problems.

We should have an armchair politician that we elect every few years so that they can fix all the flaws the others can't see.


Please explain the downside of removing victimless crimes.
 
2014-08-16 10:17:27 AM  

drewogatory: we can restrict things like drunk driving

I'm sure I'll get pasted for this but I firmly believe in the "no harm,no foul" approach to drunk driving (now I'm talking barely drunk and otherwise driving fine, none of this stop everyone and screw folks for having two goddamn drinks with dinner bullshiat, not weaving all over the road). But I also think you should be well screwed for property damage or injury if you are found to be drunk afterward.


Yes as long as you get well screwed for killing someone after driving drunk we're cool.

Or, and I know this is crazy, don't...farking...drive...drunk. Only here can you find idiots trying to defend drunk driving like its a constitutional farking right.

The reason we farking punish people who drive drunk even if there's "no harm no foul" is because it's in society's interest to seek to deter jackasses like yourself who are totally cool to drive after a few drinks from taking unecessary risks with everyone else's lives because you're too stupid to call a cab. So yeah I think I'll pass on your whole "hey I shouldn't be punished unless I actually kill someone" plan, and stick with the "hey idiots don't drive drunk because it's needlessly dangerous" model we got going right now.
 
2014-08-16 10:18:45 AM  

Snarfangel: Can we get an "All crimes must have an actual or potential victim" amendment to the Constitution? We spend too much time, money, effort, and far too many lives on policing consensual acts -- like smoking pot -- when cops could be spending their time preventing violence.



Cops are too busy committing violent crimes to spend time on preventing them.

-Ray Rice Approves This Policy
 
2014-08-16 10:19:10 AM  
Sadly the only justification I can see for him getting shot was that he was pointing a gun at the officers.  and we only have the officers word on that.

The only reason officers don't have cameras on themselves is because it allows them to get away with things like this
 
2014-08-16 10:19:15 AM  

Zombie DJ: lucksi: An autopsy corroborated their account, indicating that Westcott was initially shot with his right shoulder pointed forward and his right arm lifted partway up his body.

You can really tell that from looking at a corpse?

You know it's, like, 2014, right?
Not 1950.


i35.photobucket.com

Agrees
 
2014-08-16 10:19:35 AM  

Slackfumasta: Gobobo: Harsh but fair.

Only if you believe the War on Drugs is justified.


War on drugs aside. This mental great was pointing a gun at officers.
 
2014-08-16 10:20:36 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: For the life of me, I don't understand why they can't just wait him to leave the house and grab him.


Policemen like the sound of many boots on the pavement.  And who doesn't like the visual effect of all those helmets?
 
2014-08-16 10:21:02 AM  
Oh, it's gonna get even worse. Thanks to feminist meddling, the act of trying to have sex with a prostitute will make you guilty of sex trafficking. Your simple desire to drain a nut will put you on the same level as the Captain of the Amistad in the eyes of the Law.
 
2014-08-16 10:21:26 AM  

TommyDeuce: GDubDub: Snarfangel: Can we get an "All crimes must have an actual or potential victim" amendment to the Constitution? We spend too much time, money, effort, and far too many lives on policing consensual acts -- like smoking pot -- when cops could be spending their time preventing violence.

/Need to have a law-talking dude come up with the correct language, so we can restrict things like drunk driving and selling drugs to children.

So, I should be able to go into a national park and start a logging operation, or set up a baby sea turtle boil on the beach?

The Government can be a victim of a property crime - such as theft.  The logging on Federal land without a permit is definitely that.  Pass a law that essentially makes endangered species (or "game" species that are out of season) Federal property, and you cover the cook -too.


Fair argument.

I understand the point that the author was trying to make, but the concept of victim is sometimes gray.

Say someone smokes some heroin once a month. I don't think that they are a victim. An addict that feels like they are going to die without a fix? A victim of addiction.


Providing sex for cash? Is the provider a victim? Many times either a victim of others or circumstance.

My point to the author is it is not a simple problem that can be solved with a sentence.
 
2014-08-16 10:21:27 AM  

Misconduc: He tried to raise his arm holding a 9mm pistol and got killed over $2 in weed. Boohoo.


Would that not also be the posture of someone putting their hands forward in a signalling stop motion?
 
2014-08-16 10:22:12 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: For the life of me, I don't understand why they can't just wait him to leave the house and grab him.


But why have all the body armor, military weapons, and vehicles if you're not going to use them to kill some folks every once in a while?
 
2014-08-16 10:22:45 AM  

picturescrazy: Antagonism: Snarfangel: Can we get an "All crimes must have an actual or potential victim" amendment to the Constitution? We spend too much time, money, effort, and far too many lives on policing consensual acts -- like smoking pot -- when cops could be spending their time preventing violence.

/Need to have a law-talking dude come up with the correct language, so we can restrict things like drunk driving and selling drugs to children.

Holy shiat you're a genius. There's no way that your half-assed thought about for 10 seconds idea would cause any problems.

We should have an armchair politician that we elect every few years so that they can fix all the flaws the others can't see.

Please explain the downside of removing victimless crimes.


You need to be more specific about the laws you object to. "Victimless" is so broad that it's just rhetoric.
 
2014-08-16 10:24:19 AM  
"At the door, Felts knocked and announced the police team at least three more times, team members said. When nobody answered, the officers let themselves in - the door was unlocked."

I don't know about anyone else, but if I'm in my bedroom with the door closed I usually don't hear someone at the front door, especially if I'm watching TV or listening to music. If I suddenly heard a commotion inside my house I'd most likely be hiding behind the bed with a gun too.

This whole search warrant thing needs to be revised. The only time police should be entering a suspects house, guns drawn and in full SWAT gear, is if the person is actually threatening to do harm.
 
2014-08-16 10:24:50 AM  

Herr_Direktor: Zombie DJ: lucksi: An autopsy corroborated their account, indicating that Westcott was initially shot with his right shoulder pointed forward and his right arm lifted partway up his body.

You can really tell that from looking at a corpse?

You know it's, like, 2014, right?
Not 1950.

[i35.photobucket.com image 183x275]

Agrees


I still can't believe Paulie is in her 40s.
 
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