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(San Mateo Daily Journal)   In California, not apologizing for a car accident proves you are guilty. Apologizing also proves you are guilty. Would you like to plead guilty now?   (smdailyjournal.com) divider line 82
    More: PSA  
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7128 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Aug 2014 at 9:00 PM (5 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-15 04:51:47 PM
Hours after the crash, Tom's alcohol level measured .04 percent. Using scientific rates of alcohol processing, the prosecution contended Tom was actually at 0.98 at the time of the crash. However, jurors acquitted Tom of alcohol-related charges.

Either that was a typo, or this guy has already been embalmed.
 
2014-08-15 04:58:19 PM
<i>But the state Supreme Court disagreed, arguing that Tom never specifically invoked his Fifth Amendment right to remain silent.</i>

Why is the fifth amendment the only one you have to positively assert your right to in order to use it?  I mean, I can go down to a gun range and fire off a few rounds of a friend's pistol without asserting my second amendment rights, and I can publish a newspaper without first asserting my first amendment rights.
 
2014-08-15 04:59:06 PM
Hmm...that's a fail.  Works when I'm mobile.
 
2014-08-15 05:09:32 PM
But the state Supreme Court disagreed, arguing that Tom never specifically invoked his Fifth Amendment right to remain silent.

That's pretty nice the way you have to NOT be silent, in order to exert your right to remain silent.
 
2014-08-15 05:46:02 PM

Snarfangel: Hours after the crash, Tom's alcohol level measured .04 percent. Using scientific rates of alcohol processing, the prosecution contended Tom was actually at 0.98 at the time of the crash. However, jurors acquitted Tom of alcohol-related charges.

Either that was a typo, or this guy has already been embalmed.


Why? .10 used to be the standard. Now it's .08 pretty much everywhere.
 
2014-08-15 05:46:41 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Snarfangel: Hours after the crash, Tom's alcohol level measured .04 percent. Using scientific rates of alcohol processing, the prosecution contended Tom was actually at 0.98 at the time of the crash. However, jurors acquitted Tom of alcohol-related charges.

Either that was a typo, or this guy has already been embalmed.

Why? .10 used to be the standard. Now it's .08 pretty much everywhere.


Oh. I can't math.
 
2014-08-15 05:55:24 PM

cameroncrazy1984: cameroncrazy1984: Snarfangel: Hours after the crash, Tom's alcohol level measured .04 percent. Using scientific rates of alcohol processing, the prosecution contended Tom was actually at 0.98 at the time of the crash. However, jurors acquitted Tom of alcohol-related charges.

Either that was a typo, or this guy has already been embalmed.

Why? .10 used to be the standard. Now it's .08 pretty much everywhere.

Oh. I can't math.



I am math, and so can you! :)
 
2014-08-15 09:07:57 PM
On vacation and staying in Redwood City so I'm getting a kick...
 
2014-08-15 09:08:51 PM
So pretty much just like accidents work here in the Philippines then.  The person that pays is the person with the most money.  Brilliant.
 
2014-08-15 09:09:13 PM
In any kind of legal jeopardy, never talk.

If you start talking, you're just going to implicate yourself.

Invoke your right to remain silent and then use it.

Call your lawyer as soon as possible.
 
2014-08-15 09:09:54 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Snarfangel: Hours after the crash, Tom's alcohol level measured .04 percent. Using scientific rates of alcohol processing, the prosecution contended Tom was actually at 0.98 at the time of the crash. However, jurors acquitted Tom of alcohol-related charges.

Either that was a typo, or this guy has already been embalmed.

Why? .10 used to be the standard. Now it's .08 pretty much everywhere.


That's all well and good, but how could they 'scientifically' say 0.98?
 
2014-08-15 09:10:04 PM
I only play a doctor at the hospital, but I'm pretty sure that 0.98 is either incompatible with life or worthy of a case report.
 
2014-08-15 09:12:00 PM
Everybody is guilty of something.
 
2014-08-15 09:13:20 PM
I'm looking forward to hearing how this zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
 
2014-08-15 09:14:57 PM

studebaker hoch: In any kind of legal jeopardy, never talk.

If you start talking, you're just going to implicate yourself.

Invoke your right to remain silent and then use it.

Call your lawyer as soon as possible.


This
 
2014-08-15 09:15:01 PM
Meanwhile, in Canada

s2.postimg.org
 
2014-08-15 09:16:31 PM
So if someone rear ends me, I have to say "is everyone in your car Ok?" or else I am guilty of someone rear ending me?

Yeah, no.
 
2014-08-15 09:16:50 PM
Extrapolating isn't evidence.  Fark you
 
2014-08-15 09:17:41 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Snarfangel: Hours after the crash, Tom's alcohol level measured .04 percent. Using scientific rates of alcohol processing, the prosecution contended Tom was actually at 0.98 at the time of the crash. However, jurors acquitted Tom of alcohol-related charges.

Either that was a typo, or this guy has already been embalmed.

Why? .10 used to be the standard. Now it's .08 pretty much everywhere.


0.98 means .02 blood and .98 alcohol
 
2014-08-15 09:21:01 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: But the state Supreme Court disagreed, arguing that Tom never specifically invoked his Fifth Amendment right to remain silent.

That's pretty nice the way you have to NOT be silent, in order to exert your right to remain silent.


So the lesson here is to get out your car and only keep repeating "I plea the Fifth."
 
2014-08-15 09:22:22 PM

lack of warmth: Sin_City_Superhero: But the state Supreme Court disagreed, arguing that Tom never specifically invoked his Fifth Amendment right to remain silent.

That's pretty nice the way you have to NOT be silent, in order to exert your right to remain silent.

So the lesson here is to get out your car and only keep repeating "I plea the Fifth."


"I'm serious -- please give me a fifth. I'm parched."
 
2014-08-15 09:23:24 PM
Dead person, other driver, prosecutor: all Asian.

I'm sure one of them is at fault for a car accident.

/going to hell
 
2014-08-15 09:29:23 PM

stirfrybry: 0.98 means .02 blood and .98 alcohol


What does Drew's BAC have to do with this?
 
2014-08-15 09:30:41 PM
I want to make a "slippery slope" joke but that would be wong.
 
2014-08-15 09:31:15 PM

JPINFV: I only play a doctor at the hospital, but I'm pretty sure that 0.98 is either incompatible with life or worthy of a case report.


Funny you say that.  I was looking for another page, but found this:

http://affotd.com/2012/04/16/eight-of-the-highest-blood-alcohol-leve ls -of-all-time/ 

1,33%.  Supposedly, she was coherent.  From a doctor's perspective, (I am taking your claim at face value), if the effects are leveled out between alcohol and cocaine, at what point is guaranteed failure?  I remember one day I decided to set the :"high score.," something I just made up at the time., I drank a handle (1.75L), 80 proof vodak, at least 16 beers, smoked and dropped an entire quarter of weed, and an 3.5 oz. of cocaine.  People the next day were telling me that I was perfectly coherent, although I didn't remember a thing past 6pm.  Why can there be such a discrepancy between short-term memory function and social interaction function?  It obviously varies from person to person, but does coming from a family with addiction problems help you processing of toxins and poisons?  

/Extremely curious.  
//Too lazy to Google
///Never too lazy for a third slashie.
 
2014-08-15 09:31:59 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: But the state Supreme Court disagreed, arguing that Tom never specifically invoked his Fifth Amendment right to remain silent.

That's pretty nice the way you have to NOT be silent, in order to exert your right to remain silent.


Yeah, not really a fan of this ruling. The next step on the prosecution side to test it would be to assert that the way the person shakily asked for their 5th amendment right was indicative of guilt.

Does anyone have where wiki gets its sourcing, on there it states "Protection against compelled self-incrimination is implicit in the Miranda rights statement, which protects the "right to remain silent." That would seem to argue that your 5th amendment right is auto-invoked at all times.

And man, .98 would be a heck of a night out.


/as it should be
 
2014-08-15 09:33:01 PM

The Angry Hand of God: JPINFV: I only play a doctor at the hospital, but I'm pretty sure that 0.98 is either incompatible with life or worthy of a case report.

Funny you say that.  I was looking for another page, but found this:

http://affotd.com/2012/04/16/eight-of-the-highest-blood-alcohol-leve ls -of-all-time/ 

1,33%.  Supposedly, she was coherent.  From a doctor's perspective, (I am taking your claim at face value), if the effects are leveled out between alcohol and cocaine, at what point is guaranteed failure?  I remember one day I decided to set the :"high score.," something I just made up at the time., I drank a handle (1.75L), 80 proof vodak, at least 16 beers, smoked and dropped an entire quarter of weed, and an 3.5 ozGM. of cocaine.  People the next day were telling me that I was perfectly coherent, although I didn't remember a thing past 6pm.  Why can there be such a discrepancy between short-term memory function and social interaction function?  It obviously varies from person to person, but does coming from a family with addiction problems help you processing of toxins and poisons?  

/Extremely curious.  
//Too lazy to Google
///Never too lazy for a third slashie.

 
2014-08-15 09:34:20 PM

TheManofPA: Sin_City_Superhero: But the state Supreme Court disagreed, arguing that Tom never specifically invoked his Fifth Amendment right to remain silent.

That's pretty nice the way you have to NOT be silent, in order to exert your right to remain silent.

Yeah, not really a fan of this ruling. The next step on the prosecution side to test it would be to assert that the way the person shakily asked for their 5th amendment right was indicative of guilt.

Does anyone have where wiki gets its sourcing, on there it states "Protection against compelled self-incrimination is implicit in the Miranda rights statement, which protects the "right to remain silent." That would seem to argue that your 5th amendment right is auto-invoked at all times.

And man, .98 would be a heck of a night out.


/as it should be


Ha, I added the .98 after I had written the slashie. That's what I get for watching Sharktapus....
 
2014-08-15 09:39:31 PM
Gee, I might be sorry. But then I might not be...

I need to talk to my lawyer first.
 
2014-08-15 09:40:37 PM
So rights are only rights when audibly invoked is what I'm getting from this?
 
2014-08-15 09:41:46 PM

MiamiChef: I want to make a "slippery slope" joke but that would be wong.


*snicker*
 
2014-08-15 09:42:26 PM

stirfrybry: cameroncrazy1984: Snarfangel: Hours after the crash, Tom's alcohol level measured .04 percent. Using scientific rates of alcohol processing, the prosecution contended Tom was actually at 0.98 at the time of the crash. However, jurors acquitted Tom of alcohol-related charges.

Either that was a typo, or this guy has already been embalmed.

Why? .10 used to be the standard. Now it's .08 pretty much everywhere.

0.98 means .02 blood and .98 alcohol


It a percent of a percent. .08 means 00.08 percent of the person's blood is alcohol. .98 would mean that his blood is a mildly alcoholic drink.
 
2014-08-15 09:46:39 PM
I hope SCOTUS slaps this down.  This is bad.
 
2014-08-15 09:56:59 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: But the state Supreme Court disagreed, arguing that Tom never specifically invoked his Fifth Amendment right to remain silent.

That's pretty nice the way you have to NOT be silent, in order to exert your right to remain silent.


Years and years ago I was arrested (but not convicted) on suspicion of DUI. I was hungover after a party the night before, and I think two things saved me from a conviction: I didn't blow above the limit, and I announced I wanted to talk to my lawyer once the cop arrested me. In all fairness to the cop, we had played some kind of "toss the shot" game the previous night and my clothes may well have been legally drunker than I was. I'm sure I smelled like a vodak bathhouse made out of old bourbon barrels. I was also speeding, so he had a perfectly legitimate reason to pull me over.

I was handcuffed in the car after getting arrested on the road and he had a notepad out and kept asking me questions "Did you think you were still drunk? How much did you drink the night before? Do you do this often?" and I didn't say anything until finally I asked "Am I under arrest?"

When he said yes, I said I didn't wish to say anything else until I spoke with my attorney. At that point he put his notepad down and we drove to booking in silence. I could tell even as he drove that he was disappointed he hadn't managed to get me to confess doing blow off a hooker's ass while downing shots of tequila just before I got into my car.  He was going over those same notes when I went to court two months later, but he couldn't even remember me. The prosecutor dropped the charge altogether and I had to pay a fine for the original speeding ticket.

You should answer a cop's questions as vaguely as possible before he arrests you, but after? Shut the fark up except to say "I reserve the right to remain silent and I want an attorney."
 
2014-08-15 09:57:09 PM

The Angry Hand of God: JPINFV: I only play a doctor at the hospital, but I'm pretty sure that 0.98 is either incompatible with life or worthy of a case report.

Funny you say that.  I was looking for another page, but found this:

http://affotd.com/2012/04/16/eight-of-the-highest-blood-alcohol-leve ls -of-all-time/ 

1,33%.  Supposedly, she was coherent.  From a doctor's perspective, (I am taking your claim at face value), if the effects are leveled out between alcohol and cocaine, at what point is guaranteed failure?  I remember one day I decided to set the :"high score.," something I just made up at the time., I drank a handle (1.75L), 80 proof vodak, at least 16 beers, smoked and dropped an entire quarter of weed, and an 3.5 oz. of cocaine.  People the next day were telling me that I was perfectly coherent, although I didn't remember a thing past 6pm.  Why can there be such a discrepancy between short-term memory function and social interaction function?  It obviously varies from person to person, but does coming from a family with addiction problems help you processing of toxins and poisons?  

/Extremely curious.  
//Too lazy to Google
///Never too lazy for a third slashie.


So, I'm having a little get together this weekend and thought maybe you would want to drop by...
 
2014-08-15 10:02:42 PM

studebaker hoch: In any kind of legal jeopardy, never talk.

If you start talking, you're just going to implicate yourself.

Invoke your right to remain silent and then use it.

Call your lawyer as soon as possible.


"I had the Right to remain silent; but I did NOT have the ability to!" heard on Foxworthy's Comedy Show. (comedian's name escapes me)
 
2014-08-15 10:09:38 PM

psychopathic tendencies: The Angry Hand of God: JPINFV: I only play a doctor at the hospital, but I'm pretty sure that 0.98 is either incompatible with life or worthy of a case report.

Funny you say that.  I was looking for another page, but found this:

http://affotd.com/2012/04/16/eight-of-the-highest-blood-alcohol-leve ls -of-all-time/

1,33%.  Supposedly, she was coherent.  From a doctor's perspective, (I am taking your claim at face value), if the effects are leveled out between alcohol and cocaine, at what point is guaranteed failure?  I remember one day I decided to set the :"high score.," something I just made up at the time., I drank a handle (1.75L), 80 proof vodak, at least 16 beers, smoked and dropped an entire quarter of weed, and an 3.5 oz. of cocaine.  People the next day were telling me that I was perfectly coherent, although I didn't remember a thing past 6pm.  Why can there be such a discrepancy between short-term memory function and social interaction function?  It obviously varies from person to person, but does coming from a family with addiction problems help you processing of toxins and poisons?

/Extremely curious.
//Too lazy to Google
///Never too lazy for a third slashie.

So, I'm having a little get together this weekend and thought maybe you would want to drop by...


He does sound fun to party with.

I mean in the sense that I would enjoy watching the impending car wreck he would become. Not actually partake with him.
 
2014-08-15 10:12:28 PM
I had the right to remain silent... I just didn't have the ability....
 
2014-08-15 10:13:44 PM

Swampmaster: studebaker hoch: In any kind of legal jeopardy, never talk.

If you start talking, you're just going to implicate yourself.

Invoke your right to remain silent and then use it.

Call your lawyer as soon as possible.

"I had the Right to remain silent; but I did NOT have the ability to!" heard on Foxworthy's Comedy Show. (comedian's name escapes me)


And I was just a little slow on the draw.... The comedian is Ron "The Tater" White.  8)
 
2014-08-15 10:21:28 PM

duke3522: studebaker hoch: In any kind of legal jeopardy, never talk.

If you start talking, you're just going to implicate yourself.

Invoke your right to remain silent and then use it.

Call your lawyer as soon as possible.

This


I was not texting an order for pizza. I want my fifth amendment rights. And pepperoni. In thirty minutes.
 
2014-08-15 10:22:34 PM
I'll take the Giles Corey option: "More weight."
 
2014-08-15 10:29:03 PM
The prosecutor speculated and the defense attorney didn't object right then and there so the judge ruled "no do-over".  You have to state your intention not to speak because of all the rights it's one of the few that you can use and not have an outside observer obviously know you are doing it.  If you are out on a street with a sign they don't have to ask if you are using your 1st amendment.  If the officer is standing in front of you asking "what happened" and all you do is stare back at him, who knows?  Maybe you are deaf or mentally ill. maybe you've suffered injury as a result of whatever accident has happened and can't respond, they just don't know unless you say so.  I go with "I'm not prepared to make any statements at this time."  It's clear and doesn't actually mention the 5th amendment so the cops don't get all "OH we got us a lawyers here".

Moral of the story:  If a prosecutor makes a completely unsupported statement about how x proves y your lawyer better catch it then and there. Or the moral of the story could be don't get drunk and drive.  My guess is that the guy had a public defender.  They are well meaning and hard working, but they are notoriously under resourced.
 
2014-08-15 10:34:05 PM
It takes a special kind of court decision to make me side with a drunk driver in a Mercedes who killed a kid.

Doesn't Miranda specifically say, "You have the right to remain silent" rather than "You have the right to remain silent but first you have to invoke that right?"

You have to ask for a lawyer, but remaining silent should be as simple as keeping your mouth shut.

""I'm not saying that he has to say sorry as an expression of his guilt or as some kind of confession but simply as an expression of his regret," Chang told jurors."  And that pretty much confirms it for me.  The officer is basically saying he had the right to remain silent except that he has to say something to indicate remorse.  No.  No he doesn't; or at least he shouldn't.  We have parts of the trial for that where you can try to get compassion from the jury or judge.  You can take the stand or throw yourself on the mercy of the court during sentencing. 

Sometimes the president is more important than the conviction.
 
2014-08-15 10:36:00 PM
RIGHTS go away if you do not specifically invoke them?

a2.img.mobypicture.com
 
2014-08-15 10:48:24 PM

HoratioGates: It takes a special kind of court decision to make me side with a drunk driver in a Mercedes who killed a kid.

Doesn't Miranda specifically say, "You have the right to remain silent" rather than "You have the right to remain silent but first you have to invoke that right?"

You have to ask for a lawyer, but remaining silent should be as simple as keeping your mouth shut.

""I'm not saying that he has to say sorry as an expression of his guilt or as some kind of confession but simply as an expression of his regret," Chang told jurors."  And that pretty much confirms it for me.  The officer is basically saying he had the right to remain silent except that he has to say something to indicate remorse.  No.  No he doesn't; or at least he shouldn't.  We have parts of the trial for that where you can try to get compassion from the jury or judge.  You can take the stand or throw yourself on the mercy of the court during sentencing. 

Sometimes the president is more important than the conviction.


HG said exactly what I was thinking until "president."

I was thinking "precedent."

I think.
 
2014-08-15 10:59:22 PM
"Do you understand these rights as I have read them to you?"

"Hell, no. There's so much case-law surrounding this stuff that you'd have done a doctoral thesis and spent at least thirty years of your life in law libraries to even start to understand what it means!"
 
2014-08-15 11:20:53 PM

thatboyoverthere: stirfrybry: cameroncrazy1984: Snarfangel: Hours after the crash, Tom's alcohol level measured .04 percent. Using scientific rates of alcohol processing, the prosecution contended Tom was actually at 0.98 at the time of the crash. However, jurors acquitted Tom of alcohol-related charges.

Either that was a typo, or this guy has already been embalmed.

Why? .10 used to be the standard. Now it's .08 pretty much everywhere.

0.98 means .02 blood and .98 alcohol

It a percent of a percent. .08 means 00.08 percent of the person's blood is alcohol. .98 would mean that his blood is a mildly alcoholic drink.


That would be an interesting cocktail. What would we call it? A Bram Stoker? An O positive?

Can I get one with olives?
 
2014-08-15 11:24:03 PM
The state supreme court really farked this one up.

I expect it to be overturned.
 
2014-08-15 11:27:51 PM

Boo_Guy: So rights are only rights when audibly invoked is what I'm getting from this?


Apparently. Via oyez.org: "The Fifth Amendment's privilege against self-incrimination does not extend to defendants who simply decide to remain mute during questioning."

See Salinas v. Texas 570 U. S. ___ (2013) and Berghuis v. Thompkins 560 U.S. 370 (2010).

/Haley v. United States
//Haley 7, United States 0
 
2014-08-15 11:28:39 PM

Katolu: On vacation and staying in Redwood City so I'm getting a kick...


really? never thought of redwood city as a vacation spot.
 
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