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(Time)   That's a good question - why don't we require police to wear cameras on duty? You'd think it'd be better and cheaper than a week of protests and tear gas   (time.com) divider line 440
    More: Obvious, Internet Explorer 8  
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6325 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Aug 2014 at 8:36 AM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-15 08:35:24 AM  
Because police unions and the fact that police are under local governance.
 
2014-08-15 08:38:07 AM  
Because no one, including police, want their entire work day recorded.
 
2014-08-15 08:39:04 AM  
Funny- last night's episode of Rookie Blue is about that.
 
2014-08-15 08:39:14 AM  
Duh, having officers wear cameras would document illegal things that officers are doing, and they are not the ones being policed here, you are.  Move along citizen.
 
2014-08-15 08:40:12 AM  
And whenever something like this happens we get the ol "Oh sorry, the camera malfunctioned and didn't record it" excuse.

http://reason.com/blog/2010/08/12/when-police-videos-go-missing
 
2014-08-15 08:40:13 AM  
Because you would have documented evidence that a significant fraction of them are genuine dicks.
 
2014-08-15 08:40:28 AM  
But tear gas and sniper's nests are a lot more fun!
 
2014-08-15 08:40:53 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: Because no one, including police, want their entire work day recorded.


when your workday potentially involves accusing people of criminal acts and/or using deadly force your entire workday NEEDS to be recorded.
 
2014-08-15 08:41:01 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: Because no one, including police, want their entire work day recorded.


I see a lot of dash cam videos of cops pulling people over.
 
2014-08-15 08:43:17 AM  
You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You?

/long as I go home safe at the end of the day
//and I get to bust some heads along the way
///and also a doughnut.
 
2014-08-15 08:44:26 AM  

Muta: Peter von Nostrand: Because no one, including police, want their entire work day recorded.

I see a lot of dash cam videos of cops pulling people over.


Do you see a lot of videos of cops shooting unarmed teenagers in the back?

Exactly.
 
2014-08-15 08:44:48 AM  
Aren't they doing this already in a few places and they've witnessed the complaints plummet against officers?

/dnrtfa
 
2014-08-15 08:44:48 AM  
Why not ask congresspeople to wear cameras at all of their meetings with lobbyists?
Why not ask soldiers to wear cameras when they're out on patrol?
Why not ask federal agents to wear cameras while they interrogate people?

I'd be in favor of cameras for cops plus all of the above, but it would pierce the veil of civilized respectability we have as a society and reveal us as greedy, mean, brutal psychopaths. Like it or not, a big part of what holds civilized society together is the illusion that we're civilized.

/Yes, I said civilized thrice. Thesaurus is offline.
 
2014-08-15 08:45:03 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: Because no one, including police, want their entire work day recorded.


If you work on a computer, your entire work day is already recorded. You just don't want to give your boss reason to look through it.

I'm trying to find the office equivalent of shooting an unarmed person with their hands up. For some reason that is proving difficult.
 
2014-08-15 08:46:41 AM  
The law should be: if there is ever an instance of officer's word vs defendant's word, the defendant's word is assumed as correct unless there is video evidence indicating otherwise.  If the officer says that the kid threw a roach out the window, or whatever, if there's no video - too bad.
 
2014-08-15 08:47:29 AM  

Lochsteppe: Why not ask congresspeople to wear cameras at all of their meetings with lobbyists?
Why not ask soldiers to wear cameras when they're out on patrol?
Why not ask federal agents to wear cameras while they interrogate people?

I'd be in favor of cameras for cops plus all of the above, but it would pierce the veil of civilized respectability we have as a society and reveal us as greedy, mean, brutal psychopaths. Like it or not, a big part of what holds civilized society together is the illusion that we're civilized.

/Yes, I said civilized thrice. Thesaurus is offline.


I'd also be in favor of all of that, but I gotta wonder, where is all that data gonna be stored?  Decent-quality video eats up HDD space like Nic Cage eats movie roles.
 
2014-08-15 08:49:18 AM  

doublesecretprobation: Peter von Nostrand: Because no one, including police, want their entire work day recorded.

when your workday potentially involves accusing people of criminal acts and/or using deadly force your entire workday NEEDS to be recorded.


THIS

I also believe that cops should always get the maximum sentence and fine for any crime they commit.

Don't like the rules or the working conditions then don't take the job. And stop whining about it.
 
2014-08-15 08:50:09 AM  
Maybe because cameras that are small enough, inexpensive enough, rugged enough, and with enough capacity have only existed for a few years, and it takes time for reality to catch up with technology?
 
2014-08-15 08:51:04 AM  

Tomahawk513: Lochsteppe: Why not ask congresspeople to wear cameras at all of their meetings with lobbyists?
Why not ask soldiers to wear cameras when they're out on patrol?
Why not ask federal agents to wear cameras while they interrogate people?

I'd be in favor of cameras for cops plus all of the above, but it would pierce the veil of civilized respectability we have as a society and reveal us as greedy, mean, brutal psychopaths. Like it or not, a big part of what holds civilized society together is the illusion that we're civilized.

/Yes, I said civilized thrice. Thesaurus is offline.

I'd also be in favor of all of that, but I gotta wonder, where is all that data gonna be stored?  Decent-quality video eats up HDD space like Nic Cage eats movie roles.


Not really an issue. There's plenty of entities that generate that much data and more on a daily basis.
 
2014-08-15 08:51:33 AM  
Many agencies do. Called body cams. I've used them. The smarter agencies have it where they are "locked" as with some dashcams so only a superior can have access to the footage.

/end rant.
 
2014-08-15 08:52:18 AM  

freakingmoron: doublesecretprobation: Peter von Nostrand: Because no one, including police, want their entire work day recorded.

when your workday potentially involves accusing people of criminal acts and/or using deadly force your entire workday NEEDS to be recorded.

THIS

I also believe that cops should always get the maximum sentence and fine for any crime they commit.

Don't like the rules or the working conditions then don't take the job. And stop whining about it.


I would agree with that.  For instance, if a grocery store employee is caught stealing food, it's a different charge than the shoplifting charge that a non-employee will face.  The employee's penalties are higher.  No reason that police shouldn't be held to a higher standard when it comes to crimes.
 
2014-08-15 08:52:25 AM  

WDFark think for a second: Many agencies do. Called body cams. I've used them. The smarter agencies have it where they are "locked" as with some dashcams so only a superior can have access to the footage.

/end rant.


I'd make it so you can only access the data with a judge's order. Police superiors are all too often complicit in coverups.
 
2014-08-15 08:52:36 AM  
I watched some Lewis Black thing from last year, and I like the way he phrased it: We (civilians) are moving at the speed of light via social media, but government hasn't moved at all.
 
2014-08-15 08:53:26 AM  
Argle bargle Derp!  This is big government regulations!  The problem is the federal government and that bla... blasphemer in the White House!

Local government?  Oh they are just fine.  Ignore those minor misunderstandings.  Corruption, racism, and cops who think the Constitution is toilet paper are not what is destroying this country.
 
2014-08-15 08:54:29 AM  

WDFark think for a second: Many agencies do. Called body cams. I've used them. The smarter agencies have it where they are "locked" as with some dashcams so only a superior can have access to the footage.

/end rant.



London police will all have cameras soon. And "It is planned that the armed teams will not be allowed to view the footage they have captured until after they have given a full statement about a shooting, which includes a vital account of why they felt force was justified."
 
2014-08-15 08:55:26 AM  
 
2014-08-15 08:55:27 AM  
Let's do the same for politicians.
 
2014-08-15 08:56:37 AM  
Hefty penalties for officers who tamper with their cameras in any way would also probably be a good idea.
 
2014-08-15 08:56:43 AM  

Lochsteppe: Why not ask congresspeople to wear cameras at all of their meetings with lobbyists?
Why not ask soldiers to wear cameras when they're out on patrol?
Why not ask federal agents to wear cameras while they interrogate people?

I'd be in favor of cameras for cops plus all of the above, but it would pierce the veil of civilized respectability we have as a society and reveal us as greedy, mean, brutal psychopaths. Like it or not, a big part of what holds civilized society together is the illusion that we're civilized.

/Yes, I said civilized thrice. Thesaurus is offline.


Some soldiers do as well as they manufacture some military grade firearms that have camera systems built in though not widespread in use. I recall a fark thread of pure outrage when they showed such a system being used in Israel by the IDF I believe.
 
2014-08-15 08:56:45 AM  

Tomahawk513: Lochsteppe: Why not ask congresspeople to wear cameras at all of their meetings with lobbyists?
Why not ask soldiers to wear cameras when they're out on patrol?
Why not ask federal agents to wear cameras while they interrogate people?

I'd be in favor of cameras for cops plus all of the above, but it would pierce the veil of civilized respectability we have as a society and reveal us as greedy, mean, brutal psychopaths. Like it or not, a big part of what holds civilized society together is the illusion that we're civilized.

/Yes, I said civilized thrice. Thesaurus is offline.

I'd also be in favor of all of that, but I gotta wonder, where is all that data gonna be stored?  Decent-quality video eats up HDD space like Nic Cage eats movie roles.



If the NSA can record and store every phone call in the world just in case they want it later, then there shouldn't be any technical barrier to storing all video logs for 90 days.
They should also be able to isolate video of all arrests from all officers present and put it on a DVD with the arrest report. That would certainly make sense to do and would cut down on false complaints of police brutality.
 
2014-08-15 08:57:52 AM  

doublesecretprobation: Peter von Nostrand: Because no one, including police, want their entire work day recorded.

when your workday potentially involves accusing people of criminal acts and/or using deadly force your entire workday NEEDS to be recorded.


I don't disagree with any of that or with recording what cops do. I'm making the simple statement that no one wants to have audio and video of everything they do at work. No one that has replied to me yet has said they would be willing to have video and audio of their entire work day. One sort of alluded to people working on computers but that isn't the same.
 
2014-08-15 08:58:35 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: Because no one, including police, want their entire work day recorded.


Most people's workdays don't include the possibility of shooting someone to death and sparking a week of protests and teargassing.

And just because people don't want to have their work day recorded doesn't mean it's some massive inconvenience either.  Have you ever done time behind the register at a gas station?
 
2014-08-15 08:58:59 AM  

fsud: I'm trying to find the office equivalent of shooting an unarmed person with their hands up. For some reason that is proving difficult.


Taking the last of the coffee and not making a fresh pot?
 
2014-08-15 08:59:48 AM  
If I was an honest cop I would want a camera recording all the time

But then again, if I get to be something imaginary I would go for something a bit more exotic. Like robot dracula.
 
2014-08-15 09:00:38 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: doublesecretprobation: Peter von Nostrand: Because no one, including police, want their entire work day recorded.

when your workday potentially involves accusing people of criminal acts and/or using deadly force your entire workday NEEDS to be recorded.

I don't disagree with any of that or with recording what cops do. I'm making the simple statement that no one wants to have audio and video of everything they do at work. No one that has replied to me yet has said they would be willing to have video and audio of their entire work day. One sort of alluded to people working on computers but that isn't the same.


Why should we care if they want to be recorded?
 
2014-08-15 09:00:38 AM  

qorkfiend: WDFark think for a second: Many agencies do. Called body cams. I've used them. The smarter agencies have it where they are "locked" as with some dashcams so only a superior can have access to the footage.

/end rant.

I'd make it so you can only access the data with a judge's order. Police superiors are all too often complicit in coverups.


On a purely prgamatic note that would make investigations using the footage grind to a halt as approval would be needed from a judge multiple times a day for every officer every day. My county sheriff's dept deploys over 2k officers on night shift fyi. But I agree with the sentiment.
 
2014-08-15 09:00:42 AM  
Are you kidding?

1: This has put Ferguson on the map
2: Does anyone think the investigation wouldn't still be ongoing even if this guy had a camera on?
3: This has been a big boon for the news and sites like Fark.
 
2014-08-15 09:00:45 AM  

Tomahawk513: I'd also be in favor of all of that, but I gotta wonder, where is all that data gonna be stored? Decent-quality video eats up HDD space like Nic Cage eats movie roles.


It wouldn't all have to be stored in perpetuity.  Save it for 30 days maybe, and if nobody makes a claim against someone that requires video evidence, overwrite it.  Or find a way to not keep mundane video of a cop going into Dunkin Donuts, but just video of traffic stops and other relevant interactions, which would be much less time than keeping it all.
 
2014-08-15 09:00:49 AM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: fsud: I'm trying to find the office equivalent of shooting an unarmed person with their hands up. For some reason that is proving difficult.

Taking the last of the coffee and not making a fresh pot?


Dropping a deuce in the only working bathroom, clogging the toilet, and not telling anyone?
 
2014-08-15 09:00:52 AM  
Because it wouldn't matter.  Most of the protestors don't give a sh** about what really happened, they just want to burn and loot.  Gotta get that new TV somehow.
 
2014-08-15 09:01:20 AM  

doublesecretprobation: Peter von Nostrand: Because no one, including police, want their entire work day recorded.

when your workday potentially involves accusing people of criminal acts and/or using deadly force your entire workday NEEDS to be recorded.


yet sadly, someone recording them becomes a crime/act of terrorism/etc.
 
2014-08-15 09:01:21 AM  
That is easy.  A perk of the job is being able to kill people, take cash and drugs, and intimidate as many people as you can since they all treated you badly in high school.
 
2014-08-15 09:01:27 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: I'm making the simple statement that no one wants to have audio and video of everything they do at work. No one that has replied to me yet has said they would be willing to have video and audio of their entire work day.


I would not like my work day recorded, but I'm not a police officer. If I were, I'd understand that the video could also be used to exonerate me should somebody accuse me of police misconduct. A camera can help both sides of the badge.
 
2014-08-15 09:02:08 AM  

Tomahawk513: Lochsteppe: Why not ask congresspeople to wear cameras at all of their meetings with lobbyists?
Why not ask soldiers to wear cameras when they're out on patrol?
Why not ask federal agents to wear cameras while they interrogate people?

I'd be in favor of cameras for cops plus all of the above, but it would pierce the veil of civilized respectability we have as a society and reveal us as greedy, mean, brutal psychopaths. Like it or not, a big part of what holds civilized society together is the illusion that we're civilized.

/Yes, I said civilized thrice. Thesaurus is offline.

I'd also be in favor of all of that, but I gotta wonder, where is all that data gonna be stored?  Decent-quality video eats up HDD space like Nic Cage eats movie roles.


I think the obvious answer is Utah since we already have a MASSIVE data storage facility there that's basically built to spy on people who pose no threat.
 
2014-08-15 09:03:02 AM  
One potential problem for those on the side opposite the officers, is the possibility that the criminal/suspect/person of interest/crazy people would almost inherently lose some of their constitutional protection if their initial contact was fully recorded.  I know that the dash cams probably prove that wrong, but when the camera is "Face-to-Face" that might be a bit different.

/opinion
//can be proven wrong
///just tossed it out there with the slashies
 
2014-08-15 09:03:11 AM  
That's a good question - why don't we require police to wear cameras on duty?

The honest answer is that police find lying a very helpful tool, enabled by the credibility that courts typically ascribe to them. They don't want to give up the ability to lie and they have a union.

This really needs to happen.
 
2014-08-15 09:03:49 AM  
If they are doing nothing wrong, then they have nothing to hide.

right?
 
2014-08-15 09:04:10 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Peter von Nostrand: I'm making the simple statement that no one wants to have audio and video of everything they do at work. No one that has replied to me yet has said they would be willing to have video and audio of their entire work day.

I would not like my work day recorded, but I'm not a police officer. If I were, I'd understand that the video could also be used to exonerate me should somebody accuse me of police misconduct. A camera can help both sides of the badge.


Yes but you and I know cops don't want what they do recorded and why. Well, the vast majority don't.
 
2014-08-15 09:04:29 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: doublesecretprobation: Peter von Nostrand: Because no one, including police, want their entire work day recorded.

when your workday potentially involves accusing people of criminal acts and/or using deadly force your entire workday NEEDS to be recorded.

I don't disagree with any of that or with recording what cops do. I'm making the simple statement that no one wants to have audio and video of everything they do at work. No one that has replied to me yet has said they would be willing to have video and audio of their entire work day. One sort of alluded to people working on computers but that isn't the same.


I would have no problem having my entire work day recorded in audio and video.  As the police like to say, if you are not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about.  If I choose to work in a recorded environment, that is my decision, and it's my employer's decision to require recording.  If I don't like it, I find another job.
 
2014-08-15 09:04:54 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: Because no one, including police, want their entire work day recorded.


Fark them.

They are public servants who work in public with the public. Don't like it? Get another job.

They have abused their power too long. Time for the backlash.
 
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