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(Toronto Life)   While St. Louis tries to implode, Toronto looks in our direction and asks if anyone remembers Sammy Yatim   (torontolife.com ) divider line
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3515 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Aug 2014 at 11:11 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-15 10:28:03 AM  
Assuming the story is accurate, yes it appears the cop used excessive force. But I'm not feeling any sympathy for the guy who was shot, considering he whipped his dick out and then tried to slash people with a knife.
 
2014-08-15 11:14:43 AM  
No, but I remember Vera Lynn.

/We'll meet again...
 
2014-08-15 11:18:07 AM  

strangeluck: Assuming the story is accurate, yes it appears the cop used excessive force. But I'm not feeling any sympathy for the guy who was shot, considering he whipped his dick out and then tried to slash people with a knife.


Mental issues and all that.
 
2014-08-15 11:18:32 AM  
No, but I remember Sammy Jankis.
 
2014-08-15 11:21:54 AM  

strangeluck: I'm not feeling any sympathy for the guy who was shot, considering he whipped his dick out and then tried to slash people with a knife.


Ditto.
I would have no problem with anyone shutting him down permanently on the sport no warning.
Fark him
 
2014-08-15 11:24:40 AM  
Whom?
And in 30 days some most nearly all of the rioters will not remember why they are not at home watching AGT.
 
2014-08-15 11:26:27 AM  
but do you recall the most famous raindeer of all?
 
2014-08-15 11:30:41 AM  
They shot an armed individual who was threatening others?

I have no issue with the use of deadly force.

I do have issues with the paranoia and police over-use of tazers resulting in them being heavily restricted while every officer has a gun.
 
2014-08-15 11:32:21 AM  
The trigger-happy cop in question has been charged with murder AND attempted murder - very strange in a case like this.
I'm sure this will get a lot of news coverage once the trial begins (assuming the Fords Bungling Brothers circus has left town by then).
 
2014-08-15 11:32:22 AM  
Completely different set of events here.  The kid in Toronto was a psycho..... Did he deserve to die? No, but a choice had to be made.  The kid from St. Louis?  His only crime was being black and being confronted by a white cop.......  Not even close to being comparable situations.....
 
2014-08-15 11:32:27 AM  
I think the point of this story is that in this officer involved shooting there was a legitimate danger to the passengers on the bus, the driver and the officers. The cop shot someone who was a legitimate threat who wasn't going to back down. No one there would question something had to be done.

But because he fired nine shots into the guy, he was charged with second degree murder. It was decided he used excessive force. Once cop, facing down a dangerous individual, was arrested and charged because he went too far in doing the right thing.

Compare and contrast with the current state of American law enforcement.
 
2014-08-15 11:34:55 AM  
Wow, Canadians really *are* from a different planet.  At least your cops shoot people who are actually armed and threatening.  How effing quaint that you get all bent out of shape about it.
 
2014-08-15 11:34:59 AM  
There was nobody on the streetcar when they shot him. Yatim forced everyone off. He did not deserve to die. He was murdered.
 
2014-08-15 11:36:30 AM  
I agree with vudukungfu. Shut him down on the sport. No problem. Even if that sport was hockey.
 
2014-08-15 11:36:34 AM  

strangeluck: Assuming the story is accurate, yes it appears the cop used excessive force. But I'm not feeling any sympathy for the guy who was shot, considering he whipped his dick out and then tried to slash people with a knife.


My only problem with the whole thing was AFTER the shots, the tazer went off... it just screams "cover-up".

Sammy was no perfect angel, he was suffering from mental illness and was a danger to himself and others at that moment.

The cop himself wasn't a stone-cold dirty cop that doesn't care, I think he panicked and shot Sammy and then tried to cover it up afterwards with the tazer to the chest. Maybe they where going to claim the tazer didn't work and then the shooting would be justified.

The cover-up is why Bill Blair, the police chief, came down heavy on this.

I have sympathy for both.

/I used to work at a MH hospital, trying to get help for severe illness is difficult
 
2014-08-15 11:41:03 AM  
I remember The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down. And the bells were ringing. The night they drove old Dixie down. And the people were singing.
They went, "Na, na, la, na, na, la"
 
2014-08-15 11:44:33 AM  

funmonger: There was nobody on the streetcar when they shot him. Yatim forced everyone off. He did not deserve to die. He was murdered.


He was making for the exit while holding a deadly weapon and was clearly a danger to others.  Shooting him was justified.

...well the first three times at any rate.  It's the 9 other shots that went in after he was down, surrounded, and tasered that were over the line.

This is definitely a case of mistreatment by the police, but let's not kid ourselves here: this guy was violent, unhinged, and carrying a deadly weapon he had just used in an attempted murder.  The cop would have been justified in shooting him if he'd stopped when the guy dropped.
 
2014-08-15 11:47:37 AM  

derpes_simplex: Wow, Canadians really *are* from a different planet.  At least your cops shoot people who are actually armed and threatening.  How effing quaint that you get all bent out of shape about it.


I'm an American in Canada, when this erupted I was shocked that anyone, well, cared.

Hell, the whole STL kid has a lot of people in the US saying "Well, he probably did SOMETHING to deserve being shot and his body left for hours in the street. Racism doesn't exist! But he was a young black man so he was probably a thug."

/The Canadians also protested this without rioting, another shocker
//Rioting is reserved for when your hockey team loses
 
2014-08-15 11:50:02 AM  

Harry Freakstorm: I agree with vudukungfu. Shut him down on the sport. No problem. Even if that sport was hockey.


Damn right! Hockey sticks at high noon!
 
2014-08-15 11:52:44 AM  

strangeluck: Harry Freakstorm: I agree with vudukungfu. Shut him down on the sport. No problem. Even if that sport was hockey.

Damn right! Hockey sticks at high noon!


And Molsons.
 
2014-08-15 11:53:04 AM  

strangeluck: Assuming the story is accurate, yes it appears the cop used excessive force. But I'm not feeling any sympathy for the guy who was shot, considering he whipped his dick out and then tried to slash people with a knife.


Yeah that schizophrenic should have known better.. Personal  bootstraps + turn that frown upside down etc.
 
2014-08-15 11:54:09 AM  

amd1433: I think the point of this story is that in this officer involved shooting there was a legitimate danger to the passengers on the bus, the driver and the officers. The cop shot someone who was a legitimate threat who wasn't going to back down. No one there would question something had to be done.

But because he fired nine shots into the guy, he was charged with second degree murder. It was decided he used excessive force. Once cop, facing down a dangerous individual, was arrested and charged because he went too far in doing the right thing.

Compare and contrast with the current state of American law enforcement.


Did you read the article or see the video? There was no imminent danger to anyone. The guy should have received a tazing not 9 bullets. He was holed up in the streetcar by himself. They could have easily waited for the tazer or used some other non-lethal force. Yes, the story says there was only one Sgt. carrying a tazer that night. That's a problem the police force needs to deal with and is no excuse for shooting someone.

It's not just about justice for Yaitm. TPS is an overall good force in our city, shiat like this needs to be handled properly so it doesn't become commonplace.
 
2014-08-15 11:54:50 AM  
yosemitesamquotes.com

How could I forget?
 
2014-08-15 11:59:03 AM  
Any time a perp with a knife is closer than 21 feet from an officer the officer is in mortal danger and that alone justifies the use of deadly force. The officers who did not shoot should be reprimanded and retrained.
 
2014-08-15 12:00:53 PM  

yukichigai: funmonger: There was nobody on the streetcar when they shot him. Yatim forced everyone off. He did not deserve to die. He was murdered.

He was making for the exit while holding a deadly weapon and was clearly a danger to others.  Shooting him was justified.

...well the first three times at any rate.  It's the 9 other shots that went in after he was down, surrounded, and tasered that were over the line.

This is definitely a case of mistreatment by the police, but let's not kid ourselves here: this guy was violent, unhinged, and carrying a deadly weapon he had just used in an attempted murder.  The cop would have been justified in shooting him if he'd stopped when the guy dropped.


Any real danger was gone, the attempted murder had already happened. He's not a bear you shoot after a mauling.
 
2014-08-15 12:03:50 PM  
I can't tell too much from the video but it is an established fact that in a case of gun vs knife, the knife has the advantage within 20-30 feet. It may seem like a large distance but it closes quickly. More information is still needed in this case.
 
2014-08-15 12:07:52 PM  
Lego_Addict:

It's not just about justice for Yaitm. TPS is an overall good force in our city, shiat like this needs to be handled properly so it doesn't become commonplace.

I wasn't trying to say the cop didn't deserve what he got, but rather to make the point that he was investigated, given a trial and brought up on charges for shooting someone who actually had a weapon and had been threatening people, and it was STILL considered murder.

While in the US, you can be the the wrong color or in the wrong place, or be on the wrong end of a no-knock warrant and get shot, in some cases 50 or 60 times, and the officers get administrative leave. There's something very wrong with that.

Society needs law enforcement, but it should be lawful as well.
 
AOW
2014-08-15 12:09:38 PM  

yukichigai: funmonger: There was nobody on the streetcar when they shot him. Yatim forced everyone off. He did not deserve to die. He was murdered.

He was making for the exit while holding a deadly weapon and was clearly a danger to others.  Shooting him was justified.

...well the first three times at any rate.  It's the 9 other shots that went in after he was down, surrounded, and tasered that were over the line.

This is definitely a case of mistreatment by the police, but let's not kid ourselves here: this guy was violent, unhinged, and carrying a deadly weapon he had just used in an attempted murder.  The cop would have been justified in shooting him if he'd stopped when the guy dropped.


Yes, people don't realize just how deadly a person with a knife can be, try this get one of those toy knife and pistol sets and have a partner charge you with the knife while you try to draw and shoot him, the average person can cover 15 feet in the time it takes to draw and begin to aim. Confronting a deranged person with the crowd that close put him in a untenable situation, him and his partner did right by covering him, the other officers should have concentrated on establishing a perimeter and moving the bystanders back. One hard and fast rule that I have seen fall by the wayside is the scene rule: the three steps you must take at any scene "contain, de escalate, resolve" containing the scene is the mandatory first step, fail that and you limit your options like the officer in the article leaving him with no perceived option but shooting, de escalate means get everyone calmed and all weapons secure, sadly force is sometimes needed, but if you have the scene contained that lessens the chance force will be used, once you have those two done you can see if any arrests or other actions are needed.
Lately I have seen the pack mentality take hold, officers will clump up in a mass, weapons drawn and their emotions feeding off each other so that if one shoots they all do putting themselves and innocents in danger
 
2014-08-15 12:10:05 PM  

yukichigai: He was making for the exit while holding a deadly weapon and was clearly a danger to others.  Shooting him was justified.


No, it wasn't.
 
2014-08-15 12:10:31 PM  

derpes_simplex: Wow, Canadians really *are* from a different planet.  At least your cops shoot people who are actually armed and threatening.  How effing quaint that you get all bent out of shape about it.


And you're a trolling asshole. Account created: 2014-07-17 23:28:45

You are also dismissive of the term "people". Watch this and be threatened in the abstract, while you retain your precious "shape".

WARNING - A REAL PERSON IS NEEDLESSLY SHOT TO DEATH BY TORONTO POLICE IN THE LINKED VIDEO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG6OTyjzAgg

A quaint murder charge was laid.
 
2014-08-15 12:18:48 PM  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji8WHWaA73k 

These are Toronto cops taking down a much more aggressive lunatic with a knife.

SPOILER ALERT: They take him down without a shot.
 
2014-08-15 12:29:51 PM  
Nothing of value was lost.
 
2014-08-15 12:45:32 PM  

funmonger: There was nobody on the streetcar when they shot him. Yatim forced everyone off. He did not deserve to die. He was murdered.


Armed with a knife and not obeying officers orders.  No sympathy here.
 
2014-08-15 12:51:33 PM  
Yo Sammy Yatim, I'm really happy for you, and imma let you finish, but I just gotta say that the Asian dude that shot his father in the back with a crossbow at the library is still the best of the 'crazy guy in Toronto' stories.

/Zanta remains the coolest of the non-weapon-wielding crazy guys.
 
2014-08-15 01:01:50 PM  

barefoot in the head: derpes_simplex: Wow, Canadians really *are* from a different planet.  At least your cops shoot people who are actually armed and threatening.  How effing quaint that you get all bent out of shape about it.

And you're a trolling asshole. Account created: 2014-07-17 23:28:45

You are also dismissive of the term "people". Watch this and be threatened in the abstract, while you retain your precious "shape".

WARNING - A REAL PERSON IS NEEDLESSLY SHOT TO DEATH BY TORONTO POLICE IN THE LINKED VIDEO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG6OTyjzAgg

A quaint murder charge was laid.



I'm not quite sure what the intent of your post was, other than to offgas at me.  So I only very recently created an account of Fark, after lurking here for over a year.  What's your point?  I've never called anyone an asshole here, or any name for that matter.  My posts and rhetoric have never been as nasty or inflammatory as the turd you smeared on the wall.  In fact, I try pretty hard to make my posts funny and relevant.

Don't you know what sarcasm or dark humor looks like?  If not, you're probably in the wrong place.

/go fark yourself
 
2014-08-15 01:04:54 PM  

funmonger: There was nobody on the streetcar when they shot him. Yatim forced everyone off. He did not deserve to die. He was murdered.


And he was moving to exit the streetcar where the police wouldn't have a clean shot.

Taking him down was justifiable, now the follow-up shots may be an issue but that is another matter.
 
2014-08-15 01:18:32 PM  

derpes_simplex: barefoot in the head: derpes_simplex: Wow, Canadians really *are* from a different planet.  At least your cops shoot people who are actually armed and threatening.  How effing quaint that you get all bent out of shape about it.

And you're a trolling asshole. Account created: 2014-07-17 23:28:45

You are also dismissive of the term "people". Watch this and be threatened in the abstract, while you retain your precious "shape".

WARNING - A REAL PERSON IS NEEDLESSLY SHOT TO DEATH BY TORONTO POLICE IN THE LINKED VIDEO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG6OTyjzAgg

A quaint murder charge was laid.


I'm not quite sure what the intent of your post was, other than to offgas at me.  So I only very recently created an account of Fark, after lurking here for over a year.  What's your point?  I've never called anyone an asshole here, or any name for that matter.  My posts and rhetoric have never been as nasty or inflammatory as the turd you smeared on the wall.  In fact, I try pretty hard to make my posts funny and relevant.

Don't you know what sarcasm or dark humor looks like?  If not, you're probably in the wrong place.

/go fark yourself


Bullshiat

No.
 
2014-08-15 01:26:08 PM  

barefoot in the head: derpes_simplex: barefoot in the head: derpes_simplex: Wow, Canadians really *are* from a different planet.  At least your cops shoot people who are actually armed and threatening.  How effing quaint that you get all bent out of shape about it.

And you're a trolling asshole. Account created: 2014-07-17 23:28:45

You are also dismissive of the term "people". Watch this and be threatened in the abstract, while you retain your precious "shape".

WARNING - A REAL PERSON IS NEEDLESSLY SHOT TO DEATH BY TORONTO POLICE IN THE LINKED VIDEO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG6OTyjzAgg

A quaint murder charge was laid.


I'm not quite sure what the intent of your post was, other than to offgas at me.  So I only very recently created an account of Fark, after lurking here for over a year.  What's your point?  I've never called anyone an asshole here, or any name for that matter.  My posts and rhetoric have never been as nasty or inflammatory as the turd you smeared on the wall.  In fact, I try pretty hard to make my posts funny and relevant.

Don't you know what sarcasm or dark humor looks like?  If not, you're probably in the wrong place.

/go fark yourself

Bullshiat

No.


Find one post of mine to bolster your argument.  Then post it under another name, cause you just became the first farker to make my killfile.
 
2014-08-15 01:36:15 PM  
The Toronto cops routinely use more force than necessary, and wave their guns around more than necessary. Too many nervous Barney Fifes who think they're in the big bad city, when the crime rate is more like a small town in the U.S.

I used to walk home after midnight in downtown Toronto. I never even saw anybody who might be dangerous. Except cops who needed to get in their quota of bullying for the day.
 
2014-08-15 01:53:06 PM  
FTFA:
Forcillo asked his partner to radio for a Taser to subdue Yatim. In Toronto, only division sergeants are allowed to carry Tasers.

So every cop gets a .40 S&W or 9mm pistol, but stun guns are too much for the average patrol officer?

Canada... you're supposed to be smart.
 
2014-08-15 02:05:46 PM  

Marine1: FTFA:
Forcillo asked his partner to radio for a Taser to subdue Yatim. In Toronto, only division sergeants are allowed to carry Tasers.

So every cop gets a .40 S&W or 9mm pistol, but stun guns are too much for the average patrol officer?

Canada... you're supposed to be smart.


Like in many jurisdictions tazers got overused regularly by police in Canada under the idea that it couldn't harm anybody.

After a couple people died from unnecessary tazings, people got paranoid and the public was outraged so restrictions were imposed.
 
2014-08-15 02:06:00 PM  

bingethinker: The Toronto cops routinely use more force than necessary, and wave their guns around more than necessary. Too many nervous Barney Fifes who think they're in the big bad city, when the crime rate is more like a small town in the U.S.

I used to walk home after midnight in downtown Toronto. I never even saw anybody who might be dangerous. Except cops who needed to get in their quota of bullying for the day.


Same here, being an American I am shocked at how clean and low-crime Toronto is, I was never afraid in Toronto wandering back from the bar.
 
2014-08-15 02:06:21 PM  

silverjets: Armed with a knife and not obeying officers orders.  No sympathy


Cool, uh, something, bro.
 
2014-08-15 02:11:19 PM  

dywed88: Taking him down was justifiable


No, it clearly wasn't. Holy hell, what is wrong with you people? The cops aren't sniper scouts, this isn't Call Of Duty. We don't pay cops to take shots at people who aren't a threat to anyone, even if they're about to run.

This isn't about personal feelings, it's about what we train our cops to do. They're not human garbagemen, we actually pay them to save people from themselves.

Hell, you remember that dude who beheaded and ate part of a guy on a greyhound bus? BEHEADED. CANNIBALIZED. 

Where is that guy now? He MUST have been shot, given your description of kill conditions. He went for the door too.

OH WAIT HE'S FINE.
 
2014-08-15 02:31:12 PM  

funmonger: dywed88: Taking him down was justifiable

No, it clearly wasn't. Holy hell, what is wrong with you people? The cops aren't sniper scouts, this isn't Call Of Duty. We don't pay cops to take shots at people who aren't a threat to anyone, even if they're about to run.

This isn't about personal feelings, it's about what we train our cops to do. They're not human garbagemen, we actually pay them to save people from themselves.

Hell, you remember that dude who beheaded and ate part of a guy on a greyhound bus? BEHEADED. CANNIBALIZED. 

Where is that guy now? He MUST have been shot, given your description of kill conditions. He went for the door too.

OH WAIT HE'S FINE.


And if this guy had not moved to exit the streetcar for another two minutes he would probably be fine (barring some heart condition or other issue).

As I recall, the guy on the bus never resisted the police and never even threatened anyone else. This guy was actively hostile and appeared to be attemptingto leave the street car at which point he is an imminent threat to the policeand public.
 
2014-08-15 02:44:22 PM  

dywed88: And if this guy had not moved to exit the streetcar for another two minutes he would probably be fine (barring some heart condition or other issue).

As I recall, the guy on the bus never resisted the police and never even threatened anyone else. This guy was actively hostile and appeared to be attemptingto leave the street car at which point he is an imminent threat to the policeand public.


You recall wrong.

SO Wrong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tim_McLean#Incident


"At 8:30 p.m., the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) in Portage la Prairie received a report of a stabbing on a Greyhound bus west of the city. They arrived to find the suspect still on board the bus, being prevented from escaping by another passenger, the bus driver, and a truck driver who had provided a crowbar and a hammer as weapons. The other passengers were huddled at the roadside, some of them crying and vomiting. As the suspect had earlier attempted to escape by driving the bus away, the driver had engaged the emergency immobilizer system, rendering the vehicle inoperable. Witnesses had observed the suspect stabbing and cutting McLean's body, and carrying McLean's severed head.[7]

By 9:00 p.m., police were in a standoff with the suspect and had summoned special negotiators and a heavily armed tactical unit. The suspect alternately paced the length of the bus and defiled the corpse. Police officers then observed Li eating parts of the body.[5] Meanwhile, the stranded passengers were transported from the scene to be interviewed at the Brandon RCMP detachment.[7] RCMP officers reportedly heard Li say, "I have to stay on the bus forever."[5]

On July 31, 2008, at 1:30 a.m., the suspect attempted to escape from the bus by breaking through a window. The RCMP arrested Li soon afterward.[6][8] He was shot with a Taser twice, handcuffed and placed in the back of a police cruiser."

Never resisted police? Never threatened anyone else? This lunatic was WAY more of a danger to everyone around him. Sammy Yatim did NOT deserve to die, you know it, and any non-troll reading this exchange knows it.
 
2014-08-15 03:39:21 PM  
oh noe a knife and a penis??????

i am terrified please call in the orbital strike.
 
2014-08-15 03:41:06 PM  

dywed88: They shot an armed individual who was threatening others?


They shot a corpse.

*BANG* - kid collapses to the ground, shot, motionless.  *BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG*.

...

*TASER*.
 
2014-08-15 03:45:51 PM  

optimus_grime: oh noe a knife and a penis??????

i am terrified please call in the orbital strike.


Okay!

static.fjcdn.com
 
2014-08-15 04:27:12 PM  

funmonger: dywed88: And if this guy had not moved to exit the streetcar for another two minutes he would probably be fine (barring some heart condition or other issue).

As I recall, the guy on the bus never resisted the police and never even threatened anyone else. This guy was actively hostile and appeared to be attemptingto leave the street car at which point he is an imminent threat to the policeand public.

You recall wrong.

SO Wrong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tim_McLean#Incident


"At 8:30 p.m., the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) in Portage la Prairie received a report of a stabbing on a Greyhound bus west of the city. They arrived to find the suspect still on board the bus, being prevented from escaping by another passenger, the bus driver, and a truck driver who had provided a crowbar and a hammer as weapons. The other passengers were huddled at the roadside, some of them crying and vomiting. As the suspect had earlier attempted to escape by driving the bus away, the driver had engaged the emergency immobilizer system, rendering the vehicle inoperable. Witnesses had observed the suspect stabbing and cutting McLean's body, and carrying McLean's severed head.[7]

By 9:00 p.m., police were in a standoff with the suspect and had summoned special negotiators and a heavily armed tactical unit. The suspect alternately paced the length of the bus and defiled the corpse. Police officers then observed Li eating parts of the body.[5] Meanwhile, the stranded passengers were transported from the scene to be interviewed at the Brandon RCMP detachment.[7] RCMP officers reportedly heard Li say, "I have to stay on the bus forever."[5]

On July 31, 2008, at 1:30 a.m., the suspect attempted to escape from the bus by breaking through a window. The RCMP arrested Li soon afterward.[6][8] He was shot with a Taser twice, handcuffed and placed in the back of a police cruiser."

Never resisted police? Never threatened anyone else? This lunatic was WAY more of a danger to everyone around him. Sammy Yatim did NOT deserve to die, you know it, and any non-troll reading this exchange knows it.


I stand corrected. So the RCMP did exactly what the Toronto Police were trying to do, and if Yatin made his move to escape minutes later what would have hapenned.

What would you have had the police do? Let him off the streetcar? Or have unarmed police phyically attack a crazy person weilding a knife?
 
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