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(MIT Technology Review)   Ex-NSA Deputy Director on Snowden leak: "We need to up our game without crushing the 99.9 percent of people who have operated faithfully. We need to focus on behaviors"   (technologyreview.com) divider line 70
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2975 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Aug 2014 at 5:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-14 02:19:07 PM  
Actually, he makes a good point about not overreacting in terms of how they deal with other operators at Snowden's level who didn't do what he did. I'm sure there's lots of pressure for a sea change at the NSA in response to the Snowden leaks.
 
2014-08-14 03:30:49 PM  
Just respect your citizens... It's really quite simple.
 
2014-08-14 03:31:45 PM  
My, what a big popup you have, grandma.
 
2014-08-14 03:33:12 PM  

red5ish: My, what a big popup you have, grandma.


That's, um...what she said?
 
2014-08-14 03:35:31 PM  
Is he saying we should go after the Koch brothers?
 
2014-08-14 03:37:15 PM  
Whatever, as long as Bush is still in charge nothing is going to change.
 
2014-08-14 03:38:51 PM  

paygun: Whatever, as long as Bush is still in charge nothing is going to change.


The gift that keeps on giving.
 
2014-08-14 03:40:06 PM  

SmackLT: Actually, he makes a good point about not overreacting in terms of how they deal with other operators at Snowden's level who didn't do what he did. I'm sure there's lots of pressure for a sea change at the NSA in response to the Snowden leaks.


i also liked his bit on whistleblowing.

/ but, that's because i believe that there is process in this country, even when it looks like our security interests have gained a little ground over our liberty interests.
 
2014-08-14 03:41:44 PM  
So his first answer is essentially advertising for the company he works for now?
 
2014-08-14 03:42:52 PM  
The Snowden interview that was on Wired.com the other day was an interesting read as well...
 
2014-08-14 03:44:15 PM  

Phony_Soldier: Just respect your citizens... It's really quite simple.


It's more than respecting citizens.

It's that we need to limit these systems that can be misused in the future.  We currently have a government that is more or less honest and well meaning.  If/when we get a corrupt government, there will be no fighting it and there will be no limit to its reach. It's not about looking at pics of your penis. It's bigger than that.
 
2014-08-14 03:46:26 PM  
Snowden has only leaked once AFAIK.
 
2014-08-14 03:48:27 PM  

pute kisses like a man: SmackLT: Actually, he makes a good point about not overreacting in terms of how they deal with other operators at Snowden's level who didn't do what he did. I'm sure there's lots of pressure for a sea change at the NSA in response to the Snowden leaks.

i also liked his bit on whistleblowing.

/ but, that's because i believe that there is process in this country, even when it looks like our security interests have gained a little ground over our liberty interests.


Whistleblowing is essential.  So is a well developed press. 

Wired had a good cover story about the government's control over the press is the most aggressive since Nixon
http://www.wired.com/2013/10/obama-nixon-media-war/
 
2014-08-14 03:53:12 PM  

spawn73: Snowden has only leaked once AFAIK.


momof2boys.com s on what you mean by leaked.
 
2014-08-14 03:53:20 PM  

uber humper: Phony_Soldier: Just respect your citizens... It's really quite simple.

It's more than respecting citizens.

It's that we need to limit these systems that can be misused in the future.  We currently have a government that is more or less honest and well meaning.  If/when we get a corrupt government, there will be no fighting it and there will be no limit to its reach. It's not about looking at pics of your penis. It's bigger than that.


This.

The problem is that once you have the infrastructure for oppression installed there is no really barrier to that oppression other than ideology.  And that can change.
 
2014-08-14 04:03:37 PM  
Hmm.  99.9%?  He better hope it's higher than that.  Otherwise, with perhaps 40,000 employees that means there's still another 39 Snowdens running around.  Even 99.99% still leaves him with another 3 public relations nightmares to deal with.


Source of 40k estimate:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/10/07/obama-ad m inistration-decides-nsa-spying-is-essential-but-oversight-of-nsa-is-no t/
 
2014-08-14 04:06:34 PM  

dittybopper: uber humper: Phony_Soldier: Just respect your citizens... It's really quite simple.

It's more than respecting citizens.

It's that we need to limit these systems that can be misused in the future.  We currently have a government that is more or less honest and well meaning.  If/when we get a corrupt government, there will be no fighting it and there will be no limit to its reach. It's not about looking at pics of your penis. It's bigger than that.

This.

The problem is that once you have the infrastructure for oppression installed there is no really barrier to that oppression other than ideology.  And that can change.


People don't believe that America can turn to despotic, like we're exceptional. .Just a casusal look though the history of the 20th century shows great empires fall, new ones come up and to fall again.

America is not special. We haven't failed because we haven't allowed it to happen. Now we are trading essential liberty for temporary safety.
 
2014-08-14 04:07:13 PM  

uber humper: Phony_Soldier: Just respect your citizens... It's really quite simple.

It's more than respecting citizens.

It's that we need to limit these systems that can be misused in the future.  We currently have a government that is more or less honest and well meaning.  If/when we get a corrupt government, there will be no fighting it and there will be no limit to its reach. It's not about looking at pics of your penis. It's bigger than that.


i1.kym-cdn.com
 
2014-08-14 04:08:28 PM  

uber humper: We currently have a government that is more or less honest and well meaning.


[let me laugh harder.jpg]
 
2014-08-14 04:08:53 PM  
If you build it, they will come.
 
2014-08-14 04:09:24 PM  
Dammit, Agent Smiths Laugh.
 
2014-08-14 04:11:16 PM  

powtard: If you build it, they will come.


That's what they said about redtube
 
2014-08-14 04:11:21 PM  

SmackLT: Actually, he makes a good point about not overreacting in terms of how they deal with other operators at Snowden's level who didn't do what he did. I'm sure there's lots of pressure for a sea change at the NSA in response to the Snowden leaks.


If defense security services is consistent from when I was there, they'll implement a whole bunch of pain-in-the-ass security procedures, none of which would have actually prevented Snowden. Very much like Voter-ID to fix mail-in ballot fraud.
 
2014-08-14 04:12:11 PM  

paygun: Whatever, as long as Bush is still in charge nothing is going to change.


www.bitlogic.com
 
2014-08-14 04:12:34 PM  

pute kisses like a man: / but, that's because i believe that there is process in this country


Thomas Drake would advise you that the "process" doesn't work particularly well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Andrews_Drake
 
2014-08-14 04:13:23 PM  

Cdr.Murdock: The Snowden interview that was on Wired.com the other day was an interesting read as well...


Why? Did he stop lying?
 
2014-08-14 04:15:51 PM  

Phony_Soldier: Just respect your citizens... It's really quite simple.


Yeah, if I recall correctly, zero US citizens were involved in orchestrating 9-11. Still, the Legislative and Executive branch at that time put US citizens under a blanket of indiscriminate domestic gathering.  People who have grown up under the past thirteen years of this bureaucratized government paranoia, I understand how they may not see anything unusual about it. But Inglis was fully grown when 9-11 occurred. He knows how bad these policies were, and how they've even been expanded.  Currently, with careers and immense budgets at stake, and with fat salaries available to national security folks after "retiring", it appears we're unlikely to see improvements.
 
2014-08-14 04:16:47 PM  
Agent Smiths Laugh:[i1.kym-cdn.com image 300x165]

I gotta get in on this..

img.fark.net
 
2014-08-14 04:17:58 PM  

uber humper: It's not about looking at pics of your penis. It's bigger than that.


idk. mine's pretty big.
 
2014-08-14 04:20:35 PM  
Crushing the 0.1 percent of people who haven't operated faithfully is still on the table though, right?
 
2014-08-14 04:21:46 PM  

dittybopper: uber humper: Phony_Soldier: Just respect your citizens... It's really quite simple.

It's more than respecting citizens.

It's that we need to limit these systems that can be misused in the future.  We currently have a government that is more or less honest and well meaning.  If/when we get a corrupt government, there will be no fighting it and there will be no limit to its reach. It's not about looking at pics of your penis. It's bigger than that.

This.

The problem is that once you have the infrastructure for oppression installed there is no really barrier to that oppression other than ideology.  And that can change.


Yeah - and while the ideology is actually fairly deeply ingrained (it's the same reason the military, overwhelmingly powerful, hasn't engaged in a coup), who knows what it'll look like in 50 years.
 
2014-08-14 04:22:50 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: uber humper: Phony_Soldier: Just respect your citizens... It's really quite simple.

It's more than respecting citizens.

It's that we need to limit these systems that can be misused in the future.  We currently have a government that is more or less honest and well meaning.  If/when we get a corrupt government, there will be no fighting it and there will be no limit to its reach. It's not about looking at pics of your penis. It's bigger than that.

[i1.kym-cdn.com image 300x165]


It's a relative measure, not an absolute one.
 
2014-08-14 04:26:02 PM  
FTFA: "[W]hat we have determined over 70 years of cryptologic history is that single minds never prevail against a diverse set of minds. The idea that a single person could secure information against the dedicated efforts of intelligence services that are quite capable is asking a lot. There's some amount of hubris in that."

I'm not sure it's asking a lot that a strongly-encrypted file remains encrypted, no mater how many people look at it. Snowden, I'm guessing, did not write his own encryption algorithm. He probably used AES or something else that's been out for a while and not known to be cracked...


vygramul: paygun: Whatever, as long as Bush is still in charge nothing is going to change.

[www.bitlogic.com image 450x800]


I really would love to see someone defend the claim that Obama is a socialist. And why won't he just write some laws to end the NSA's programs!
 
2014-08-14 04:31:16 PM  

uber humper: We currently have a government that is more or less honest and well meaning.


You sound like you're not from Missouri.
 
2014-08-14 04:35:30 PM  

uber humper: We currently have a government that is more or less honest and well meaning.  If/when we get a corrupt government, there will be no fighting it and there will be no limit to its reach.


Dawww. Aren't they adorable when they are young and naive? I just want to pinch your little cheeks.
 
2014-08-14 04:46:34 PM  

vygramul: dittybopper: uber humper: Phony_Soldier: Just respect your citizens... It's really quite simple.

It's more than respecting citizens.

It's that we need to limit these systems that can be misused in the future.  We currently have a government that is more or less honest and well meaning.  If/when we get a corrupt government, there will be no fighting it and there will be no limit to its reach. It's not about looking at pics of your penis. It's bigger than that.

This.

The problem is that once you have the infrastructure for oppression installed there is no really barrier to that oppression other than ideology.  And that can change.

Yeah - and while the ideology is actually fairly deeply ingrained (it's the same reason the military, overwhelmingly powerful, hasn't engaged in a coup), who knows what it'll look like in 50 years.


Technology concentrates the power in fewer and fewer hands.  In the past, with the military, the lowest guy on the totem (the grunt) wouldn't have anything to do with fight against his own people. You couldn't persuade the legions to do so.

With the technology NSA has a they can manipulate a few key people , relatively easily and those manipulated have no where to hide. Think of an up and coming politician, whose ideas run contrary to the NSA, that guy's political aspirations can be destroyed with an uncovered affair.  Reporters can be shut up in a similar manner.

There cannot be checks and balances against an organization that holds so much information/power/secrecy.

All of this for what? Because 4k people died on 9/11 when the intelligence departments were asleep at the wheel that we now subjugate the entire country?
 
2014-08-14 04:55:10 PM  

Mentalpatient87: uber humper: We currently have a government that is more or less honest and well meaning.

You sound like you're not from Missouri.


Speaking of Missouri, this issue is hundreds of times more important than anything happening down there. It'd be nice to see SOME sort of similar outrage. But nope.
 
2014-08-14 04:57:29 PM  

Phony_Soldier: Just respect your citizens traitors... It's really quite simple.


ftfy
 
2014-08-14 04:58:58 PM  
The go to documentary on all of this is PBS Frontline's United States of Secrets
It's a little over 160 minutes, but it's worth it.
 
2014-08-14 04:58:59 PM  

mdeesnuts: uber humper: We currently have a government that is more or less honest and well meaning.

[let me laugh harder.jpg]


Relative to the level of corruption and abuse of citizens that characterizes much of the rest of the world, ours is a collection of saints.  Doesn't mean they aren't corrupt and abusive - they're just not as bad.  Wait until a Pinochet or Franco comes to power and uses the security apparatus we've set up for them to really take a grip on things.
 
2014-08-14 05:06:37 PM  

vygramul: dittybopper: uber humper: Phony_Soldier: Just respect your citizens... It's really quite simple.

It's more than respecting citizens.

It's that we need to limit these systems that can be misused in the future.  We currently have a government that is more or less honest and well meaning.  If/when we get a corrupt government, there will be no fighting it and there will be no limit to its reach. It's not about looking at pics of your penis. It's bigger than that.

This.

The problem is that once you have the infrastructure for oppression installed there is no really barrier to that oppression other than ideology.  And that can change.

Yeah - and while the ideology is actually fairly deeply ingrained (it's the same reason the military, overwhelmingly powerful, hasn't engaged in a coup), who knows what it'll look like in 50 years.


Precisely.

If you sat down with the greatest minds of 1964, would they have been able to predict what the US is like today?
 
2014-08-14 05:13:43 PM  

vygramul: Cdr.Murdock: The Snowden interview that was on Wired.com the other day was an interesting read as well...

Why? Did he stop lying?


Do you have any evidence that he's ever lied? Difficulty: Statements from insanely biased individuals and your own preconceived biases don't count.
 
2014-08-14 05:13:48 PM  

dittybopper: If you sat down with the greatest minds of 1964, would they have been able to predict what the US is like today?


When I did analysis for the Navy, we pretty much considered anything more than 15 years into the future to be a guess. I mean, in 1990, who could have seen what 2005 would look like? 2000, 2015? 15 years is a LOT. Of course, we were mostly interested in the geo-political/military situation, but it holds true in a lot of ways.
 
2014-08-14 05:17:56 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: pute kisses like a man: / but, that's because i believe that there is process in this country

Thomas Drake would advise you that the "process" doesn't work particularly well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Andrews_Drake


Not to mention that Snowden did try to go through the process. Didn't get him anywhere. And yes, Inglis's claim is a lie- Snowden has produced emails backing up the claim that he tried to go through channels, and the NSA has officially confirmed that some e-mails did exist, though they're very reluctant to admit to what was in them. I suppose evidence is passe at this point, though. Bald lies are in right now, I guess.
 
2014-08-14 05:19:11 PM  

Phony_Soldier: Just respect your citizens... It's really quite simple.


Were this a viable plan, we wouldn't have or need the NSA to begin with. Hell we wouldn't have government to begin with.
 
2014-08-14 05:19:11 PM  

cptjeff: vygramul: Cdr.Murdock: The Snowden interview that was on Wired.com the other day was an interesting read as well...

Why? Did he stop lying?

Do you have any evidence that he's ever lied? Difficulty: Statements from insanely biased individuals and your own preconceived biases don't count.


You mean when he said he was an analyst rather than an IT guy? Or when he said he made $200k rather than $120k? (Notice how he replaced it with an unverifiable statement - I'm sure it's accurate.) How about his saying he worked there for years when it was a few months?

Anything independently verifiable was a lie. I mean, except his name.

This isn't an argument that the NSA is fine and there's nothing to see there. But some of the analysis of the documents I've seen is amateurish at best, and I don't appreciate someone else filtering what documents I get to see and then asking me to take their word on it. That's true for the NSA, and that's true for Snowden/Greenwald.

That's without even touching upon Snowden's decision-making in his flight to China and then Russia. (He should have gone to South America to begin with.) Stupidity does not impress me.
 
2014-08-14 05:43:12 PM  
The trajectory of things just gives me goosebumps. That's all I have to say.
 
2014-08-14 05:48:13 PM  

dittybopper: If you sat down with the greatest minds of 1964, would they have been able to predict what the US is like today?


Depends.  Are we smoking anything?
 
2014-08-14 05:59:56 PM  

Resident Muslim: The trajectory of things just gives me goosebumps. That's all I have to say.


Yep, as I commented below:  approximately zero US citizens were involved in orchestrating 9-11, but the Legislative and Executive branches put all US citizens under a blanket of indiscriminate domestic gathering, created the DoHS, began sharing information between agencies without accountability, invaded Iraq on credit, militarized the police (even more than in the WoD), and so on.  This was an immense policy failure. However, if things were to be made more reasonable, careers, large budgets, and post "retirement" fat salaries would likely be at stake.  It seems doubtful we'll see any substantive improvements in our lifetime.  On a personal note, I believe these things have been horrible for the US economy and will continue to harm it.
 
2014-08-14 06:03:35 PM  

Resident Muslim: The trajectory of things just gives me goosebumps. That's all I have to say.


Do you have goose bumps because you have something to hide?  I think someone needs to talk with you.
 
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