Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Daily Mail)   Mastodon tusks and primitive tools discovered by fishermen in Chesapeake Bay suggest humans settled North America thousands of yahs earlier than believed   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 24
    More: Interesting  
•       •       •

1884 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Aug 2014 at 10:06 PM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



24 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2014-08-14 06:11:42 PM  
The captain of the boat donated his artifacts to the local Gwynn's Island Museum in Virginia, where they sat unnoticed for near 40 decades. 
--------------------------------------

Whoa that's a lot of not noticing. My dad always said those Maryland Eastern Shore types wouldn't notice an elephant dick attached to their foreheads, I thought he was joking.
 
2014-08-14 10:10:01 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-08-14 10:20:20 PM  
Looks like we won't go once more around the sun before they notice the artifacts.
 
2014-08-14 11:30:00 PM  
I wonder how long it took for people to migrate from the Bering Strait over to Chesapeake Bay. Further more, I am surprised I haven't heard about anthropology studies in Alaska over the supposed site of possible land bridges.
 
2014-08-14 11:35:10 PM  
dang, 40 decades?  I'm glad those colonists built a museum for those artifacts.
 
2014-08-14 11:46:02 PM  
If there were humans in the New World prior to the last glacial maximum it would be damned hard to prove, given that glaciers scraped bedrock clean.

Archaeologists had enough time with the idea of humans living in the time of mastadonts-- they shut down the site in Clovis and summoned a bunch of skeptics to finish the dig there so there would be no doubt that a projectile point was indeed embedded in a mastadont longbone found in situ with the complete skeleton.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Part of the problem is that when it comes to human history people will defend their received knowledge to the bitter end, even most archaeologists. When the site in the Andes was positively radiocarbondated to prior to the Cordillera ice sheet opening up, I know two archaeologists who insisted physics was wrong rather than allowing that there might have been pre-Clovis people in the New World.

People get so uptight over this stuff. Sometimes evidence that contradicts textbooks just vanish, put into storage with the 90% of uncatalogued material. I know of one instance when human remains found unexpectedly languished in the basement of an old building until it was demolished. Why? Nobody wanted the hassles of reporting a hundreds of years old body on a dig where nobody had the qualifications to handle it.

I love archaeology but as my mentor in school put it often the discipline advances one tenured death at a time. Even if corroborating evidence were found unless it supported a European first (rather than Asian first) chronology that the Smithsonian favors we might never hear of it.

And then it would turn into Kennewick Man all over again.
 
2014-08-14 11:49:27 PM  
Just because the two items were found together, he argues, doesn't meant that they were from the same time frame. There is no way to prove the flint tool is as old as the mastodon skull, Dr Holliday said.
The incredible archaeological find was discovered in 230 feet of water 60 miles off shore in 1974. Fishermen who were dragging their scalloping nets across the bottom of the bay snagged a massive mastodon skull and dragged it to the surface. Also in the net was a flint knife.
 
2014-08-15 12:12:10 AM  
Clovis man FTW!!!
 
2014-08-15 01:09:30 AM  
Oh no! My boat full of mastodon skulls and flint tools sank.
img.fark.net
Good thing I have boat insurance.
 
2014-08-15 04:01:55 AM  
"yahs"?

Subby either doesn't know his regional accents or doesn't know geography.
 
2014-08-15 05:49:05 AM  
JamesBenjamin:

"yahs"?

Subby either doesn't know his regional accents or doesn't know geography.


That was my first thought... Would have worked better in Bahston.

/ After hearing a friend's Chuck county native mom say it, I can't think of fake whipped cream any way other than "Cool Werp."
 
2014-08-15 07:15:12 AM  
Photo evidence of modern man hanging out with Mastodon
altrocklive.com
 
2014-08-15 07:29:22 AM  
Most of the folks living 12,000 years ago lived along the ocean (like they do today).  The oceans were a tad lower then.  Virtually ALL of the evidence about neolithic man is underwater.  We find the stuff that the really isolated "hillbilly" types left behind.  Read 1491 by Charles Mann.  What you learned in school was wrong.
 
2014-08-15 07:42:55 AM  

nucrash: I wonder how long it took for people to migrate from the Bering Strait over to Chesapeake Bay. Further more, I am surprised I haven't heard about anthropology studies in Alaska over the supposed site of possible land bridges.


Apparently the trek East was made pretty early- there is a pre-Clovis site at Cactus Hill on the Nottoway River in Virginia.
 
2014-08-15 07:46:01 AM  

pushcart: nucrash: I wonder how long it took for people to migrate from the Bering Strait over to Chesapeake Bay. Further more, I am surprised I haven't heard about anthropology studies in Alaska over the supposed site of possible land bridges.

Apparently the trek East was made pretty early- there is a pre-Clovis site at Cactus Hill on the Nottoway River in Virginia.


I should add that I know nothing about the supposed origin of the pre-Clovis. Maybe they didn't trek East.
 
2014-08-15 08:00:52 AM  
 
2014-08-15 08:18:17 AM  
Daily Fail in action. Lousy editing and wild claims unsupported by evidence.

This is interesting, but not evidence. It even mentions the lack of context in TFA. The knife could have fallen or been thrown into the water at any time. I note also that no experts in flint-knapping have weighed in on the techniques used to produce the knife. Those could help roughly identify the general time of origin. There is also no mention of the source of the flint. Determining that source could also help place the knife in the right period.

A lot of once-habitable terrain was covered by the rising oceans in the wake of the retreating glaciers. There are probably archaeological sites all around North America that will be exceedingly difficult to investigate as a result. It is possible that the mastodon tusk and flint knife are contemporary items. It is also possible that the knife went into the water much later. Without conducting a full-scale excavation under several hundred feet of water in the alluvial deposits of the last 40 thousand years, we'll have to rely on analysis of the knife manufacture and source to provide evidence to support or deny the case for human occupation of North America circa 20,000 years ago.

/My brace of small copper coins
//Not an archaeologist, nor do I play one on TV
///Ancient human inhabitants of North America always used three slashies
 
2014-08-15 08:31:23 AM  
Is this an upcoming episode of America Unearthed? That show is sciencetastic!

\ not to be confused with scientific
 
2014-08-15 09:03:09 AM  

Wenchmaster: I note also that no experts in flint-knapping have weighed in on the techniques used to produce the knife.


First let me say I agree with nearly everything you wrote, so this is a minor nit-pick.

In fairness, in write-ups beyond he Daily Fail, this is addressed. According to the article on discovery.com, the "flint-knapping technique used to make it was similar to that found in Solutrean tools, which were made in Europe between 22,000 and 17,000 years ago."

IIRC this isn't the first evidence of Solutrean techniques to be found in the Americas, although the evidence remains thin. Conversely, if Europeans did somehow reach the east coast of North America, they left no genetic trace among modern native Americans, who all appear to be descended from the Siberians who crossed over the land bridge around 12,000 years ago.* Of course, it's possible that they died out without ever encountering the Siberians; this wouldn't be the only instance in history where Europeans tried and failed to colonize the east coast.

*Yes, there are still some discrepancies between the DNA evidence and the archaeological record. I think it's fair to say that there is still more to be told about the story of the settlement of the Americas.
 
2014-08-15 10:08:15 AM  

MartinD-35: Most of the folks living 12,000 years ago lived along the ocean (like they do today).  The oceans were a tad lower then.  Virtually ALL of the evidence about neolithic man is underwater.  We find the stuff that the really isolated "hillbilly" types left behind.  Read 1491 by Charles Mann.  What you learned in school was wrong.


While I like to think that 1491 accurately portrays the new world before Columbus showed up, I still think the evidence is lacking. He does make a lot of convincing arguments though.
 
2014-08-15 10:36:58 AM  

2chris2: Just because the two items were found together, he argues, doesn't meant that they were from the same time frame. There is no way to prove the flint tool is as old as the mastodon skull, Dr Holliday said.


This is not a new story; I read about this find a long time ago.

There is a group of people who have a big emotional investment in the idea that Europeans came to North America before Asians did.  This is one of the straws they grasp at to support their theory.
 
2014-08-15 02:41:51 PM  
Subby,

I see what you did dere, hon
 
2014-08-15 03:22:58 PM  

JamesBenjamin: "yahs"?

Subby either doesn't know his regional accents or doesn't know geography.


Aymen, hon.  Awbviously nevur bin downashore.
 
2014-08-15 04:14:52 PM  
Will it tear your wife in half?
www.thenoisecast.com
 
Displayed 24 of 24 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report