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(ZDNet)   Need a step-by-step blueprint on how to sink a billion dollars into a disastrous website? The Government Accountability Office has you covered   (zdnet.com) divider line 76
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4514 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Aug 2014 at 12:50 AM (9 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-14 11:38:02 PM  
And yet we waste how much on defense spending every year? According to comments in the navy scandal thread yesterday the navy wants to shiat can cruisers that cost a lot more than this site yet Congress won't let them. I know the money spent on the site is a lot but nothing like this has been done before but at least it's money spent trying to help people instead of blow them up.
 
2014-08-15 12:53:24 AM  
they got ripped off.  i could make a crappy website for $990 million
 
2014-08-15 12:54:26 AM  
Step 0 is "have the states flake out on their own websites and dump the burden on the government."
 
2014-08-15 01:01:47 AM  
Let's see here constantly changing requirements, using a new model, along with no accountability and oversight with no clear roles of any type. Yup this is really shaping up to be a awesome case study of what NOT to do in project management.
 
2014-08-15 01:02:20 AM  
This is what happens when you go with integrators instead of actually contracting with the people that will do the work.  It's happening in NYC, it happened in LA County, it's happening in Tampa, it happens everywhere.
 
2014-08-15 01:06:34 AM  
Actually, step -1 is to have dozens of insurance providers, each with their own ancient, quirky payment systems, tens of thousands of providers (doctors, hospitals, labs, ...), thousands upon thousands of treatment codes, and byzantine and meaningless rules for what gets covered or not covered.

Everyone in this system (except the consumers - you and me) has an incentive to keep things as opaque and confusing as possible - an elaborate 3-card monte where your money disappears, for some shoddy service.
 
2014-08-15 01:12:35 AM  
1 fix the icd codes
2 find out what each icd code charge really costs and factor in 15% profit.

3 make all drs and hospitals use the SAME charge sheet and claim forms.
4 use SSN for medical id
 
2014-08-15 01:13:42 AM  
I wonder how many people they could have simply bought insurance for with that amount of money....
 
2014-08-15 01:14:27 AM  
I wonder how much it would have cost without a contingent of the government demanding that everything possible be outsourced because the government can't do anything right.
 
2014-08-15 01:17:47 AM  
Hey, we're only 30 years into "Star Wars."  The system doesn't work yet, and political entities that no longer exist are not going to attack us with 30 years obsolete weapons.  But the project goes on.
 
2014-08-15 01:18:37 AM  
...Or just call it par for the course for any government project.   Mission Accomplished, right?
 
2014-08-15 01:22:07 AM  

HiFiGuy: Step 0 is "have the states flake out on their own websites and dump the burden on the government."


They never should have had to in the first place.  Fascism based health care is evil to the core.
 
2014-08-15 01:23:50 AM  
So, what is that? Like the extended cost of 2 F-35?
 
2014-08-15 01:25:12 AM  

Repack Rider: Hey, we're only 30 years into "Star Wars."  The system doesn't work yet, and political entities that no longer exist are not going to attack us with 30 years obsolete weapons.  But the project goes on.


Err, SDI has paid itself off many times over in the technology we've created and improved from it.  I bet you think the Apollo program was a waste of money, as well, right?
 
2014-08-15 01:25:20 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: HiFiGuy: Step 0 is "have the states flake out on their own websites and dump the burden on the government."

They never should have had to in the first place.  Fascism based health care is evil to the core.


Yeah, but we've accepted that insurance companies are 'required.'
 
2014-08-15 01:32:23 AM  
Too many words- anyone have it in comic form?
 
2014-08-15 01:33:30 AM  
Anyone want point out the web site itself didn't cost a billion dollars?
 
2014-08-15 01:50:58 AM  
Obama wasted a billion on a healthcare website ... meh.
Bush/Cheney wasted a trillion dollars on two wars and countless lives.

Get back to me when you have put Bush and Cheney to death, then we cant talk about Obama's tiny mistakes.
 
2014-08-15 02:11:21 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: And yet we waste how much on defense spending every year? According to comments in the navy scandal thread yesterday the navy wants to shiat can cruisers that cost a lot more than this site yet Congress won't let them. I know the money spent on the site is a lot but nothing like this has been done before but at least it's money spent trying to help people instead of blow them up.




Yup, the Navy is also thinking about retiring one aircraft carrier early, a move that will save a mere 6 billion dollars, but would leave us with only 10 operational carriers, however congress is opposed to the idea since it would weaken the fleet, since the rest of the worlds navies combined have 10 carriers too (and since none of those are supercarriers it means their combined air wings would equal less than 2 of our air wings)

Some reading if you are interested on the Navys battle with congress over the cruisers and carrier they want to ditch


/note the above carrier list doesn't count the amphibs like the Wasp and America class ships which would add another 9 lesser capable carriers to our total
 
2014-08-15 02:16:45 AM  
Oops I forgot the USS Peleliu (LHA-5) (an older Tarawa class amphib) was still in commission so that would be 10 amphibs that can double as cut rate aircraft carriers instead of nine
 
2014-08-15 02:17:48 AM  

namatad: Get back to me when you have put Bush and Cheney to death, then we cant talk about Obama's tiny mistakes.


My friends that do corporate IT projects say more than half fail completely and have to canceled.

Um... software/web development reads like the guy that built swamp castle.

Side thought, the company I'm working for probably 'invested' about 2 million in our current project which is, what 0.2% of the cost of Fartbongo.com  When you consider the thing had to inter-operate with hundreds different insurance providers in house IT, probably no two alike, and deal with millions of customers. Ugh....

On the other hand, it's mostly NRE.
 
2014-08-15 03:05:50 AM  
The price we've paid so far should have been enough to build dozens, if not hundreds of working up-to-spec websites.  I'd say that anyone on either side should agree that the website building process was a debacle start to finish except...here we are in a thread already filling with excuses.
 
2014-08-15 03:23:35 AM  
I love that people are complaining about a technology (websites) we didn't have back when Social Security started. Amazingly enough we managed to get Social Security up and running. So you're inconvenienced, and it was expensive(what? $4 per person in the US? I spent more than that for lunch), so what? Did everyone expect perfection from the get go? If so you're delusional.
 
2014-08-15 04:31:20 AM  
So is this the death of the 'agile' model? I am glad!
 
2014-08-15 05:12:40 AM  
The actual 60-page report: http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-14-69 4

The 5-page summary: http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-14-82 4T

The key messages:

* CMS undertook the development of Healthcare.gov and its related systems without effective planning or oversight practices...

* [The task] was a complex effort with compressed time frames. To be expedient, CMS issued task orders ... when key technical requirements were unknown...

* CMS identified major performance issues ... but took only limited steps to hold the contractor accountable.

* CMS awarded a new contract to another firm [and the new contract's cost has doubled] due to changes such as new requirements and other enhancements...
 
2014-08-15 06:42:28 AM  
Derpers don't care.  Damn thing could have cost eleventy gazillion dollars and they would still defend Obozo.
 
2014-08-15 06:48:32 AM  
I love when the idiots come into these threads claiming they can do better, when it's obvious their experience stops at "I can use a web browser." It makes it easy to tag them with a pretty color for next time.
 
2014-08-15 06:53:22 AM  

HiFiGuy: Step 0 is "have the states flake out on their own websites and dump the burden on the government."


Lots of states that built their own are now relying on the federal government's site because theirs worked even worse.
 
2014-08-15 07:02:00 AM  
Just another two thousand or so of these boondoggles and the cost will be equal to the Iraq Murder Party.

Minus all of the corpses, limbs, shattered families, broken dreams and million or so displaced refugees, of course.

I wonder what topics ZDNet covered in 2005.  "The Two Trillion Dollar Oil War You Paid, Fought and Died For"?  Don't remember that one.

/liberal-biased media
 
2014-08-15 07:03:10 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: And yet we waste how much on defense spending every year? According to comments in the navy scandal thread yesterday the navy wants to shiat can cruisers that cost a lot more than this site yet Congress won't let them. I know the money spent on the site is a lot but nothing like this has been done before but at least it's money spent trying to help people instead of blow them up.


Right up there with Medicare and Medicaid fraud.

The Economist mag puts it at a quarter trillion dollars per year: http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21603078-why-thieves-love - americas-health-care-system-272-billion-swindle

It's almost like they think throwing money at a problem is a viable solution
 
2014-08-15 07:05:10 AM  
Constantly changing requirements?  Half the projects I have worked on didn't have any written requirements until the software was in Production.   It also doesn't help that a lot of our analysts were made analysts because they were poor developers or validators.  If an analyst is especially bad, he/she is promoted to management.
 
2014-08-15 07:09:28 AM  

Kibbler: Just another two thousand or so of these boondoggles and the cost will be equal to the Iraq Murder Party.

Minus all of the corpses, limbs, shattered families, broken dreams and million or so displaced refugees, of course.

I wonder what topics ZDNet covered in 2005.  "The Two Trillion Dollar Oil War You Paid, Fought and Died For"?  Don't remember that one.

/liberal-biased media


Because money was wasted in one area doesn't mean it's ok to waste in another.  We should be critical of all waste.

The spigot will eventually run dry.
 
2014-08-15 07:36:41 AM  
This is what happens when a not ready for prime time President is only focused on one thing. barry and his elitist advisors knew they had democrat majorities in both houses of congress that could be manipulated, forced or would simply follow any whim the child king came up with for at least the next 2 years. They had 1/2 of the Supreme Court. They had the news media because nobody was going to question the 1st Black President and be labeled a racist by their peers. Except for Fox, conservative talk radio and some internet sites. obama controlled every aspect of the narrative. Add to that, he blames a news organization and the previous President for any blatant campaign promise failures, (taking care of veterans, helping the economy, reducing the national debt, etc) that can't be covered up. democrats and obama had everything they needed but a well thought out law.

obamacare is a flop! It's killing jobs! It's ruining this economy and it doesn't work! It's filled with lies, like your doctor/keep your doctor, like your plan/keep your plan, it'll save the average family $2,500, non citizens can't use it, etc. All lies! Princess pelosi said you have to pass it to see what's in it. Americans are finding out what a destructive, wasteful mess obamacare really is. And ALL DEMOCRATS went along with it.

How do democrats fix failures? By throwing taxpayer money at the problem. A billion dollars for a government website is criminal.
 
2014-08-15 07:37:57 AM  

bhcompy: Repack Rider: Hey, we're only 30 years into "Star Wars."  The system doesn't work yet, and political entities that no longer exist are not going to attack us with 30 years obsolete weapons.  But the project goes on.

Err, SDI has paid itself off many times over in the technology we've created and improved from it.  I bet you think the Apollo program was a waste of money, as well, right?


The Apollo program was a resounding success
 
2014-08-15 07:40:08 AM  

Mock26: I wonder how many people they could have simply bought insurance for with that amount of money....


Single payer would have worked nicely and saved us a ton on shiat like building websites. I think we should have compromised and gone single payer for everyone under 18 and pregnant mothers, and let adults take care of themselves. That wouldn't have been perfect but it feels balanced to me.
 
2014-08-15 07:41:36 AM  

Launch Code: This is what happens when a not ready for prime time President is only focused on one thing. barry and his elitist advisors knew they had democrat majorities in both houses of congress that could be manipulated, forced or would simply follow any whim the child king came up with for at least the next 2 years. They had 1/2 of the Supreme Court. They had the news media because nobody was going to question the 1st Black President and be labeled a racist by their peers. Except for Fox, conservative talk radio and some internet sites. obama controlled every aspect of the narrative. Add to that, he blames a news organization and the previous President for any blatant campaign promise failures, (taking care of veterans, helping the economy, reducing the national debt, etc) that can't be covered up. democrats and obama had everything they needed but a well thought out law.

obamacare is a flop! It's killing jobs! It's ruining this economy and it doesn't work! It's filled with lies, like your doctor/keep your doctor, like your plan/keep your plan, it'll save the average family $2,500, non citizens can't use it, etc. All lies! Princess pelosi said you have to pass it to see what's in it. Americans are finding out what a destructive, wasteful mess obamacare really is. And ALL DEMOCRATS went along with it.

How do democrats fix failures? By throwing taxpayer money at the problem. A billion dollars for a government website is criminal.


You need more typos and some random capitalization to get the right effect, but not a bad effort.
 
2014-08-15 07:42:42 AM  

ghare: Launch Code: This is what happens when a not ready for prime time President is only focused on one thing. barry and his elitist advisors knew they had democrat majorities in both houses of congress that could be manipulated, forced or would simply follow any whim the child king came up with for at least the next 2 years. They had 1/2 of the Supreme Court. They had the news media because nobody was going to question the 1st Black President and be labeled a racist by their peers. Except for Fox, conservative talk radio and some internet sites. obama controlled every aspect of the narrative. Add to that, he blames a news organization and the previous President for any blatant campaign promise failures, (taking care of veterans, helping the economy, reducing the national debt, etc) that can't be covered up. democrats and obama had everything they needed but a well thought out law.

obamacare is a flop! It's killing jobs! It's ruining this economy and it doesn't work! It's filled with lies, like your doctor/keep your doctor, like your plan/keep your plan, it'll save the average family $2,500, non citizens can't use it, etc. All lies! Princess pelosi said you have to pass it to see what's in it. Americans are finding out what a destructive, wasteful mess obamacare really is. And ALL DEMOCRATS went along with it.

How do democrats fix failures? By throwing taxpayer money at the problem. A billion dollars for a government website is criminal.

You need more typos and some random capitalization to get the right effect, but not a bad effort.


A sparkly eagle at the end always helps, too.
 
2014-08-15 07:44:58 AM  

uber humper: Peter von Nostrand: And yet we waste how much on defense spending every year? According to comments in the navy scandal thread yesterday the navy wants to shiat can cruisers that cost a lot more than this site yet Congress won't let them. I know the money spent on the site is a lot but nothing like this has been done before but at least it's money spent trying to help people instead of blow them up.

Right up there with Medicare and Medicaid fraud.

The Economist mag puts it at a quarter trillion dollars per year: http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21603078-why-thieves-love - americas-health-care-system-272-billion-swindle

It's almost like they think throwing money at a problem is a viable solution


I have basically never had a problem that couldn't be solved by throwing money at it.

It's called "paying for things."
 
2014-08-15 07:59:43 AM  

ghare: uber humper: Peter von Nostrand: And yet we waste how much on defense spending every year? According to comments in the navy scandal thread yesterday the navy wants to shiat can cruisers that cost a lot more than this site yet Congress won't let them. I know the money spent on the site is a lot but nothing like this has been done before but at least it's money spent trying to help people instead of blow them up.

Right up there with Medicare and Medicaid fraud.

The Economist mag puts it at a quarter trillion dollars per year: http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21603078-why-thieves-love - americas-health-care-system-272-billion-swindle

It's almost like they think throwing money at a problem is a viable solution

I have basically never had a problem that couldn't be solved by throwing money at it.

It's called "paying for things."


You missed the part of my post mentioning the $272,000,000,000 of Medicare & Medicaid fraud per year. The lack of oversight in government spending is not just ridiculous but an insult to taxpayers.
 
2014-08-15 08:00:24 AM  

ghare: Mock26: I wonder how many people they could have simply bought insurance for with that amount of money....

Single payer would have worked nicely and saved us a ton on shiat like building websites. I think we should have compromised and gone single payer for everyone under 18 and pregnant mothers, and let adults take care of themselves. That wouldn't have been perfect but it feels balanced to me.


I am pretty anti-big-government, but this would have made way more sense (as long as you could pay your own way if you chose even if you were under 18 or pregnant). Public option would have made WAY more sense than the current system. The current system is just a huge giveaway to insurance companies. It does nothing to increase the supply of healthcare.

Easiest step would have been to open more medical schools and residency programs.
 
2014-08-15 08:08:53 AM  

YixilTesiphon: I am pretty anti-big-government, but this would have made way more sense (as long as you could pay your own way if you chose even if you were under 18 or pregnant). Public option would have made WAY more sense than the current system. The current system is just a huge giveaway to insurance companies. It does nothing to increase the supply of healthcare.Easiest step would have been to open more medical schools and residency programs.


You ain't seen nothing yet. By 2025 there will be only about 2 workers per retiree.  Healthcare shortages, you will see.  Avg 2 workers barely pay enough taxes to cover healthcare of a single retiree with nothing left to go to the rest of the federal budget.

Before I start my family I need to become a little more international.
 
2014-08-15 08:09:31 AM  
 One implication of this was that the bidding process had to proceed without completed specifications.

That can happen when half of your 'management' is dead set on making sure the program the software is to support will be shiat-canned as soon as possible.
 
2014-08-15 08:10:42 AM  
I would do the greatest porn site ever, with myself in all the videos.

I always wanted to do that, man. And I think if I had a billion dollar budget I could hook that up, too.
 
2014-08-15 08:20:28 AM  

YixilTesiphon: ghare: Mock26: I wonder how many people they could have simply bought insurance for with that amount of money....

Single payer would have worked nicely and saved us a ton on shiat like building websites. I think we should have compromised and gone single payer for everyone under 18 and pregnant mothers, and let adults take care of themselves. That wouldn't have been perfect but it feels balanced to me.

I am pretty anti-big-government, but this would have made way more sense (as long as you could pay your own way if you chose even if you were under 18 or pregnant). Public option would have made WAY more sense than the current system. The current system is just a huge giveaway to insurance companies. It does nothing to increase the supply of healthcare.

Easiest step would have been to open more medical schools and residency programs.


There would be one HUGE fight with the AMA if the government were to force the opening of more medical schools.... licensure boards exist to ensure proper standards are met AND they artificially raise the requirements to let less people in so their jobs become more scarce.. hence they all get paid more money.

Way back when, when I passed my Professional Land Surveyors exam, you could do so without a college degree and just a 6 year apprenticeship and 2 references from licensed land surveyors. (it was a 16 hour exam.. 8 hours on fundamentals and 8 hours on state specific laws).  There were 415 people that sat for the exam... of the 8 that passed, 6 did not have degrees and the board to exception to that... now you have to have a 4 year degree and 4 year apprenticeship.

People really need to open their eyes to the fact that pretty much the exclusivity every profession is trying to culture for itself is artificial.
 
2014-08-15 08:21:44 AM  

Pribar: Peter von Nostrand: And yet we waste how much on defense spending every year? According to comments in the navy scandal thread yesterday the navy wants to shiat can cruisers that cost a lot more than this site yet Congress won't let them. I know the money spent on the site is a lot but nothing like this has been done before but at least it's money spent trying to help people instead of blow them up.

Yup, the Navy is also thinking about retiring one aircraft carrier early, a move that will save a mere 6 billion dollars, but would leave us with only 10 operational carriers, however congress is opposed to the idea since it would weaken the fleet, since the rest of the worlds navies combined have 10 carriers too (and since none of those are supercarriers it means their combined air wings would equal less than 2 of our air wings)

Some reading if you are interested on the Navys battle with congress over the cruisers and carrier they want to ditch


/note the above carrier list doesn't count the amphibs like the Wasp and America class ships which would add another 9 lesser capable carriers to our total


I always liked the image below.  It really underscores how much overkill we have.  It even counts the carrier China purchased from Russia.  The one that will like not see aircraft deployed on it and was purchased more so the Chinese navy can learn how to drive really big ships.

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-08-15 08:34:04 AM  

BMFPitt: I would do the greatest porn site ever, with myself in all the videos.

I always wanted to do that, man. And I think if I had a billion dollar budget I could hook that up, too.


I don't know why, but this is the first thing I thought of when I saw your comment...
A billion dollars?
img.fark.net
 
2014-08-15 08:36:21 AM  

wingnut396: Pribar: Peter von Nostrand: And yet we waste how much on defense spending every year? According to comments in the navy scandal thread yesterday the navy wants to shiat can cruisers that cost a lot more than this site yet Congress won't let them. I know the money spent on the site is a lot but nothing like this has been done before but at least it's money spent trying to help people instead of blow them up.

Yup, the Navy is also thinking about retiring one aircraft carrier early, a move that will save a mere 6 billion dollars, but would leave us with only 10 operational carriers, however congress is opposed to the idea since it would weaken the fleet, since the rest of the worlds navies combined have 10 carriers too (and since none of those are supercarriers it means their combined air wings would equal less than 2 of our air wings)

Some reading if you are interested on the Navys battle with congress over the cruisers and carrier they want to ditch


/note the above carrier list doesn't count the amphibs like the Wasp and America class ships which would add another 9 lesser capable carriers to our total

I always liked the image below.  It really underscores how much overkill we have.  It even counts the carrier China purchased from Russia.  The one that will like not see aircraft deployed on it and was purchased more so the Chinese navy can learn how to drive really big ships.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x967]


I like that the French have a carrier named after Joan of Arc.
 
2014-08-15 08:36:34 AM  

Pribar: Oops I forgot the USS Peleliu (LHA-5) (an older Tarawa class amphib) was still in commission so that would be 10 amphibs that can double as cut rate aircraft carriers instead of nine


The amphibs have neither catapults nor arresting cables for landing.  I don't think it is possible to launch fixed-wing aircraft off of those, they are designed for helos and ospreys and harriers.
 
2014-08-15 08:39:06 AM  

ghare: uber humper: Peter von Nostrand: And yet we waste how much on defense spending every year? According to comments in the navy scandal thread yesterday the navy wants to shiat can cruisers that cost a lot more than this site yet Congress won't let them. I know the money spent on the site is a lot but nothing like this has been done before but at least it's money spent trying to help people instead of blow them up.

Right up there with Medicare and Medicaid fraud.

The Economist mag puts it at a quarter trillion dollars per year: http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21603078-why-thieves-love - americas-health-care-system-272-billion-swindle

It's almost like they think throwing money at a problem is a viable solution

I have basically never had a problem that couldn't be solved by throwing money at it.

It's called "paying for things."


You must be unfamiliar with the "war on poverty".
 
2014-08-15 08:40:07 AM  

HiFiGuy: Step 0 is "have the states flake out on their own websites and dump the burden on the government."


Yeah because when that happened instead of the federal government having to build one website, they then had to build one website.  farked everything up.
 
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