If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Fox News)   Lake Mead's water level drops to historic low. Las Vegas mobsters now use hotel room bathtubs for their victims while awaiting a good downpour   (latino.foxnews.com) divider line 41
    More: Scary, Lake Mead, water levels, Bureau of Reclamation, desalination plants, water conservations, Southern Nevada, Imperial Valley, alfalfa  
•       •       •

1861 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Aug 2014 at 11:03 AM (5 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



41 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-08-14 10:40:37 AM
California just passed a ballot measure for a water bond that may or may not help them. I haven't read the details (and fark threw away the link)

Lake Powell is releasing water to raise Mead's levels. 1080 may be the lowest point this season.

John Wesley Powell knew they'd suck that river dry. It is just a matter of time.

We are getting very good at conserving water on a larger scale in the West, but the problem is the demand far outstrips the supply. A LOT of the foods this nation depends on comes from California and even Arizona. Most of the water use is still agricultural and the game of balance between lowered surface water costs versus pumping precious ground water is critical. It is cheaper to pump groundwater, but that is a finite resource.

I don't know what the long term holds, but I can tell you I've been to meetings with some of the water hawks here in Arizona. They seem to like their position and want to punt the football down the line to someone else. Worse, in 2009 the Arizona Legislature, in all its Tea Party infused goodness of cutting and gutting Government waste, cut Arizona's Department of Water Resources budget by 70%. In the middle of a drought. "It assumed that because all the big pieces were in place, Arizona water policy could run on autopilot. That was short-sighted. Very. Short. Sighted." I wonder if they'll restore that budget cut. They haven't, so far.

As for those who quote Sam Kinnison and living in a desert- there is some truth to it. However, places like Phoenix are at the junction of rivers that have flowed for centuries and longer and were home to cultures far older the that of the US. But, again, the problem is over population.
 
2014-08-14 11:06:31 AM
I think the answer to this is more fracking.
 
2014-08-14 11:14:10 AM

Nadie_AZ: 1080


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-08-14 11:16:40 AM
I'd rather not click a FoxNews link.

Here's an interview on NPR.
 
2014-08-14 11:20:04 AM
They'd better hurry up with that new water supply tunnel then.
 
2014-08-14 11:26:34 AM
Maybe we shouldn't farm in the Desert?
 
2014-08-14 11:45:06 AM

TheManMythLegend: Maybe we shouldn't farm in the Desert?


Maybe rain should follow the plow?
 
2014-08-14 11:56:32 AM
Next up will be shutting down the bottled water plants in California. Bottled water is a luxury item. Drinking water and farming take priority over that.
 
jvl
2014-08-14 11:57:49 AM

wxboy: They'd better hurry up with that new water supply tunnel then.


The one that will provide water to those parts of Southern California which do not receive Colorado River water?
 
2014-08-14 11:59:59 AM

Nadie_AZ: California just passed a ballot measure for a water bond that may or may not help them. I haven't read the details (and fark threw away the link)

Lake Powell is releasing water to raise Mead's levels. 1080 may be the lowest point this season.

John Wesley Powell knew they'd suck that river dry. It is just a matter of time.

We are getting very good at conserving water on a larger scale in the West, but the problem is the demand far outstrips the supply. A LOT of the foods this nation depends on comes from California and even Arizona. Most of the water use is still agricultural and the game of balance between lowered surface water costs versus pumping precious ground water is critical. It is cheaper to pump groundwater, but that is a finite resource.

I don't know what the long term holds, but I can tell you I've been to meetings with some of the water hawks here in Arizona. They seem to like their position and want to punt the football down the line to someone else. Worse, in 2009 the Arizona Legislature, in all its Tea Party infused goodness of cutting and gutting Government waste, cut Arizona's Department of Water Resources budget by 70%. In the middle of a drought. "It assumed that because all the big pieces were in place, Arizona water policy could run on autopilot. That was short-sighted. Very. Short. Sighted." I wonder if they'll restore that budget cut. They haven't, so far.

As for those who quote Sam Kinnison and living in a desert- there is some truth to it. However, places like Phoenix are at the junction of rivers that have flowed for centuries and longer and were home to cultures far older the that of the US. But, again, the problem is over population.


Doesn't help the geologic record shows the 20th century may have been wetter than average. According to this, "studies now show that the 20th century was one of the three wettest of the last 13 centuries in the Colorado basin. On average, the Colorado's flow over that period was actually 15 percent lower than in the 1900s.  "

That's a big problem.
 
2014-08-14 12:01:54 PM
Pretty sure its "historic low" is "empty" or "Colorado River"
 
2014-08-14 12:07:05 PM

jvl: wxboy: They'd better hurry up with that new water supply tunnel then.

The one that will provide water to those parts of Southern California which do not receive Colorado River water?


The one that will supply Las Vegas with water when Lake Mead drops below the intake of the current ones.
 
2014-08-14 12:14:37 PM

meat0918: Doesn't help the geologic record shows the 20th century may have been wetter than average. According to this, "studies now show that the 20th century was one of the three wettest of the last 13 centuries in the Colorado basin. On average, the Colorado's flow over that period was actually 15 percent lower than in the 1900s.  "

That's a big problem.


Agreed
 
2014-08-14 12:25:03 PM
www.cityprofile.com
 
2014-08-14 12:43:28 PM
web.mit.edu

www.motherjones.com

All that alfalfa is used for hay - a lot of which goes to china.  Basically, we're selling water to china in the form of cheap hay for livestock.

/many cities out west will resemble chaco canyon by the 22nd century
 
2014-08-14 01:27:57 PM
Fark all those assholes.

Let's kick the Injuns out, they aren't growing anything anyway.

Let's dam up taht river and drown the beautifuyl canyon, they injuns aren't using it anyway.

Let's water our golf courses and huge-ass mega-church lawns. the injuns aren't allowed in, anyway.

Hey, we're out of water.

Go fark yourselves with a barrel cactus.
 
2014-08-14 01:44:50 PM
The images of Lake Mead down that low is eerie.

Nadie_AZ: But, again, the problem is over population.


Sure seems to be, at least in AZ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Sun_Corridor

The Arizona Sun Corridor, shortened Sun Corridor, is a megaregion, or megapolitan area, in the southern area of the U.S. state of Arizona. The Sun Corridor is equivalent to Indiana in both size and population. It is one of the fastest growing conurbations in the country and is speculated to double its population by 2040.[1]

Yet what I've gather is that the developers are not being asked to prove they have 109 year sources of water for their developments as apparently state law demands

http://www.azcentral.com/news/arizona/articles/20130307phoenix-area- gr owth-raises-water-fears.html
 
2014-08-14 01:50:32 PM
Its crazy to grow alfalfa in CA, when it will grow almost anywhere even without supplemental water.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfalfa
 
2014-08-14 02:20:53 PM
have they found the sunken B-52?
 
2014-08-14 02:23:02 PM

RoyBatty: Yet what I've gather is that the developers are not being asked to prove they have 109 year sources of water for their developments as apparently state law demands

http://www.azcentral.com/news/arizona/articles/20130307phoenix-area- gr owth-raises-water-fears.html


"Glendale, Mesa and Surprise officials said they are seeking ways to find new water supplies and encouraging residents to conserve water. "

Anyone in these cities heard a peep on this? A big area of water conservation would be for the cities to pay for people to remove their lawns.
 
2014-08-14 02:23:37 PM

Dumb-Ass-Monkey: have they found the sunken B-52?


They are leaving that for the Boomers.
 
2014-08-14 02:31:25 PM

Nadie_AZ: RoyBatty: Yet what I've gather is that the developers are not being asked to prove they have 109 year sources of water for their developments as apparently state law demands

http://www.azcentral.com/news/arizona/articles/20130307phoenix-area- gr owth-raises-water-fears.html

"Glendale, Mesa and Surprise officials said they are seeking ways to find new water supplies and encouraging residents to conserve water. "

Anyone in these cities heard a peep on this? A big area of water conservation would be for the cities to pay for people to remove their lawns.


They have been pushing for xeriscape yards for at least 10 years and have been paying people to pull up their lawns as well
 
2014-08-14 02:32:56 PM

cheesedog1: Nadie_AZ: RoyBatty: Yet what I've gather is that the developers are not being asked to prove they have 109 year sources of water for their developments as apparently state law demands

http://www.azcentral.com/news/arizona/articles/20130307phoenix-area- gr owth-raises-water-fears.html

"Glendale, Mesa and Surprise officials said they are seeking ways to find new water supplies and encouraging residents to conserve water. "

Anyone in these cities heard a peep on this? A big area of water conservation would be for the cities to pay for people to remove their lawns.

They have been pushing for xeriscape yards for at least 10 years and have been paying people to pull up their lawns as well


I am aware of efforts outside of the Phoenix area, but inside?
 
2014-08-14 02:35:27 PM

Nadie_AZ: cheesedog1: Nadie_AZ: RoyBatty: Yet what I've gather is that the developers are not being asked to prove they have 109 year sources of water for their developments as apparently state law demands

http://www.azcentral.com/news/arizona/articles/20130307phoenix-area- gr owth-raises-water-fears.html

"Glendale, Mesa and Surprise officials said they are seeking ways to find new water supplies and encouraging residents to conserve water. "

Anyone in these cities heard a peep on this? A big area of water conservation would be for the cities to pay for people to remove their lawns.

They have been pushing for xeriscape yards for at least 10 years and have been paying people to pull up their lawns as well

I am aware of efforts outside of the Phoenix area, but inside?


Yeah, I had a house in mesa from 2004-2007 and I remember getting a couple of flyers promoting the fact that they would pay me if I would pull up my lawn.
 
2014-08-14 02:40:37 PM

cheesedog1: Yeah, I had a house in mesa from 2004-2007 and I remember getting a couple of flyers promoting the fact that they would pay me if I would pull up my lawn.


Huh. Cool. I didn't know. Thanks!
 
2014-08-14 02:44:29 PM

Metaluna Mutant: a lot of which goes to china.


I would not say a lot.  California grows about 6 to 8 million tons of alfalfa per year.  Total US exports to China is about 575,000 tons.

Also, I would not say that it is cheap.  $300 per ton of hay is damn expensive.

Lastly, don't forget that the water that is used to grow alfalfa is not necessarily lost when it is exported.  Don't fall victim to the 'virtual water' trap.
 
2014-08-14 02:44:40 PM
Build another sub division that will solve everything.
 
2014-08-14 02:45:30 PM

Nadie_AZ: RoyBatty: Yet what I've gather is that the developers are not being asked to prove they have 109 year sources of water for their developments as apparently state law demands

http://www.azcentral.com/news/arizona/articles/20130307phoenix-area- gr owth-raises-water-fears.html

"Glendale, Mesa and Surprise officials said they are seeking ways to find new water supplies and encouraging residents to conserve water. "

Anyone in these cities heard a peep on this? A big area of water conservation would be for the cities to pay for people to remove their lawns.


I couldn't find it, so I didn't link it, but my understanding is well, they are finding new sources mainly by redoing old estimates and using newer math, if you take my drift.

Now some of that may be valid, there may be good reason to redo older estimates and find more water there due to better measurements, better technology to extract, etc. But my understanding is mainly that the developers are counting the same water and calling it their own and no one is checking them on it.

Again, I couldn't find the articles, but that's the gist of what I've read.

The "megacity" of Nogales / Prescott is scary as all hell, but one reason I think that if that is what the cities and governments see, they should be laying fast passenger rail up and down the corridor with connections to light rail in the individual communities.
 
2014-08-14 02:49:43 PM

Dumb-Ass-Monkey: have they found the sunken B-52?


!!!   Apparently a B-29, but still!

And yes, appears it was found in 2001
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Lake_Mead_Boeing_B-29_crash

I wonder if it's been exposed or how far below the surface it now is (or how covered up it is with silt)
 
2014-08-14 03:04:34 PM
They should do rain dance.
 
2014-08-14 03:12:26 PM

vudukungfu: Let's water our golf courses and huge-ass mega-church lawns. the injuns aren't allowed in, anyway.


Golf courses should not be allowed to be constructed in the goddamned desert. Alternatively, you play on green painted sand. Why the fark we waste so much water on a retarded game boggles the farking mind.
 
2014-08-14 03:21:34 PM

nanim: Its crazy to grow alfalfa in CA, when it will grow almost anywhere even without supplemental water.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfalfa


Cheap undocumented migrant labor!
 
2014-08-14 03:21:45 PM
Why don't we just charge market rates for water in areas with such scarcity?
 
2014-08-14 04:33:37 PM

MugzyBrown: Why don't we just charge market rates for water in areas with such scarcity?


As I mentioned, a balance has to be achieved. Urban rates, you can- for the most part (Tucson would just go back to fully relying on depleting groundwater supplies). Agriculture, at least here in Arizona, is sold water that is slightly cheaper than it would be for them to drill and pump the groundwater. If the rates go up on them, they'll pump the water and deplete the groundwater further.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-08-14 04:41:21 PM
MugzyBrown

Rations were set a long time ago by people who just wanted to make sure they had guaranteed water supplies in perpetuity.

If you tried to open up a Southwest water market now you'd end up with an Enron type operation coming in and messing with supply. The only solution would be to shoot a bunch of executives and traders, and for some reason nobody in government is willing to do that.
 
2014-08-14 04:45:46 PM

BalugaJoe: They should do rain dance.


they don't know how and the natives are not going to teach them, that's why they are having a problem
 
2014-08-14 04:50:57 PM

RoyBatty: Dumb-Ass-Monkey: have they found the sunken B-52?

!!!   Apparently a B-29, but still!

And yes, appears it was found in 2001
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Lake_Mead_Boeing_B-29_crash

I wonder if it's been exposed or how far below the surface it now is (or how covered up it is with silt)


Following the links leads you to a nice article with photos and a schematic of the wreck

In short, it used to be at 240 feet but when the article was written (2008) it was at 140.  Mead's down about another 20 feet since then, so it's a diveable if difficult 120 feet.  The NPS doesn't allow diving on it right now, but apparently has it very well marked, and yes, it's totally silted.
 
2014-08-14 05:11:49 PM

Glockenspiel Hero: RoyBatty: Dumb-Ass-Monkey: have they found the sunken B-52?

!!!   Apparently a B-29, but still!

And yes, appears it was found in 2001
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Lake_Mead_Boeing_B-29_crash

I wonder if it's been exposed or how far below the surface it now is (or how covered up it is with silt)

Following the links leads you to a nice article with photos and a schematic of the wreck

In short, it used to be at 240 feet but when the article was written (2008) it was at 140.  Mead's down about another 20 feet since then, so it's a diveable if difficult 120 feet.  The NPS doesn't allow diving on it right now, but apparently has it very well marked, and yes, it's totally silted.


Aha! Thank you!
 
2014-08-14 09:47:44 PM

Englebert Slaptyback: I'd rather not click a FoxNews link.

Here's an interview on NPR.


TFA had more a broad view of the problem than that little NPR discussion.  Las Vegas could stop using water all together and it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference.  Most of the population is still working to reduce water consumption anyway, NTTAWWI.
 
2014-08-14 10:12:50 PM
The time has come to pay the piper and there are going to be some hard decisions.  CA is in the best position, they can go desal, being on the ocean, and vegas could be supplied from LA.  Farther upstream and for growing crops?  Desal is way too expensive for that.

Right now, being in Colorado is about the only guarantee of getting the water.
 
2014-08-15 05:24:17 PM
If we can build pipelines from Canada to the gulf coast, then we can build pipelines to desalinization plants in California.
 
Displayed 41 of 41 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report