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(Deadspin)   MLB Rule 7.13 strikes again and Robin Ventura goes "all Earl Weaver" over home plate   (deadspin.com) divider line 47
    More: Fail, home -plate, White Sox, Gregor Blanco, first base, catch up to a fastball, Tyler Flowers  
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2531 clicks; posted to Sports » on 15 Aug 2014 at 12:46 AM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



47 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-08-14 11:30:11 PM  
Wat?

img.bleacherreport.net
 
2014-08-15 12:49:47 AM  
7.13 has been such a headache, but I'm all for anything that causes Hawk Harrelson grief.
 
2014-08-15 12:56:45 AM  
This rule is such shiat
 
2014-08-15 12:59:32 AM  

Moosecakes: This rule is such shiat


it's likely going to be tweaked in the offseason
 
2014-08-15 01:01:08 AM  
Can we just go ahead and chalk this up as a failed experiment already and go back to the old rule? Yeah, maybe it causes injuries, but at least everybody was on the same page as to what to do. Everybody knew exactly how things were going to go: if you stand aside and allow a lane, apply the tag to record the out; if you stand in the way, hang onto the ball after you get plowed into and you'll get credit for the out. Everybody had it down to instinct.

Now? Nobody has any damn clue about under what precise circumstances you can be in the lane, and nobody has any time to figure it out when the ball's on its way and the runner's barreling for home. You basically have to guess and hope to hell the ump's interpretation of the rule goes in your favor because they can't get it straight either. And so every play at the plate has turned into 'wait, wait, hang on, what's the rule again?' And it's going to cost somebody a playoff game, maybe even a World Series game, sooner rather than later, and I know we don't want to have this argument at that particular time.
 
2014-08-15 01:06:14 AM  
I don't know baseball that well but this seems reminiscent of the old NHL 'toe in the crease' clusterfrak.
 
2014-08-15 01:11:57 AM  

Russ1642: I don't know baseball that well but this seems reminiscent of the old NHL 'toe in the crease' clusterfrak.


yeah, pretty similar situation
 
2014-08-15 01:14:58 AM  
But there is a bright spot. It pissed the shiat out of Hawk Harrelson and when another similar play went down later in the inning, he seethed "Next thing you know they'll have catcher wearing skirts out there."

That is a bright spot. Anything that pisses off Hawk is something worth doing many times over.
 
2014-08-15 01:18:13 AM  
wooo earl of baltimore refrence
 
2014-08-15 01:42:53 AM  

The Bestest: Moosecakes: This rule is such shiat

it's likely going to be tweaked in the offseason


I understand the point of the rule; from where the catcher was the only way a runner could be safe if he plowed over the catcher, being the catcher had his foot blocking the plate - I believe the runner would of been safe if the catcher wasn't there. Here's my problem; I seen a pitch out earlier this year done by the yankees where brian roberts put his FOOT between the bag and the runner; the runner was called out. How does this not apply as well? Same for a pickoff move to first/third. It doesn't happen often, but is the first basemen intentionally blocking the bag now?

In a bang bang play I can see where this is in effect, however I believe it was the Yankees again - who got the call overturned when the runner was half way down the line; but the catcher was blocking the plate.

They need to clarify this shiat up real quick, how I have not a damn clue - but from this video its clear either the runner tries to slide and rams the foot of the catcher; or goes all freight train on his ass.
 
2014-08-15 02:10:47 AM  
But there is a bright spot. It pissed the shiat out of Hawk Harrelson and when another similar play went down later in the inning, he seethed "Next thing you know they'll have catcher wearing skirts out there."

You know, if they did that I might actually pay to attend a ball game again.
 
2014-08-15 02:38:01 AM  

Misconduc: How does this not apply as well?


um, because the situation is completely different?

Don't get all agro about this rule. It will prolong the careers of catchers. A lot of major league managers were catchers and they probably feel pretty strongly about getting crushed by every asshole trying to score. It's not a bad rule.
 
2014-08-15 03:05:00 AM  
Why does everyone keep referring to 7.13 as an impossible-to-sort-out mess?

The catcher has to set up with his left foot in fair territory.  If the throw takes him to foul territory, that's fine.  But before the throw comes, he has to set up with his left foot in fair territory.

There.  That's the whole rule.  Done.  Why is this so difficult?

/if it were up to me, I'd just make the rule that all runners have to slide.  You can slide hard and straight into home plate and maybe disrupt a catcher catching a throw, but you're not gonna knock the ball out of him if you're beat.
 
2014-08-15 03:17:53 AM  
Concussions.
 
2014-08-15 03:43:00 AM  

Moosecakes: This rule is such shiat


The Marlins lost a game because of it a couple of weeks ago.
 
2014-08-15 03:48:25 AM  

Igor Jakovsky: Moosecakes: This rule is such shiat

The Marlins lost a game because of it a couple of weeks ago.


The Marlins find ways to lose games that other teams only dream about.
 
2014-08-15 06:42:07 AM  
The pussification of anything in sports that involves contact with another player continues.
 
2014-08-15 06:49:58 AM  

advex101: The pussification of anything in sports that involves contact with another player continues.


I like how people call all of these rules that are aimed at preventing unnecessary contact in sports pussification. I guess they aren't smart enough to realize that the owners now have millions of dollars in guaranteed money tied up in these players and want to take measures to insure that they aren't paying a guy millions for years after he has a career ending injury that resulted from contact that could have been prevented. When you have a million dollar piece of equipment that you paid for, you are going to take measures to ensure that you get the full life out of it that you expected when you paid for it and do anything you can to reduce factors that while artificially shorten its life.
 
2014-08-15 07:28:14 AM  
"Next thing you know we'll have catchers wearing skirts out there."

//Hawk
 
2014-08-15 07:44:30 AM  

The Bestest: Russ1642: I don't know baseball that well but this seems reminiscent of the old NHL 'toe in the crease' clusterfrak.

yeah, pretty similar situation


He had the puck.  Get over it.
 
2014-08-15 07:45:55 AM  

ongbok: advex101: The pussification of anything in sports that involves contact with another player continues.

I like how people call all of these rules that are aimed at preventing unnecessary contact in sports pussification. I guess they aren't smart enough to realize that the owners now have millions of dollars in guaranteed money tied up in these players and want to take measures to insure that they aren't paying a guy millions for years after he has a career ending injury that resulted from contact that could have been prevented. When you have a million dollar piece of equipment that you paid for, you are going to take measures to ensure that you get the full life out of it that you expected when you paid for it and do anything you can to reduce factors that while artificially shorten its life.


They're the ones who offered the guaranteed money.  My statement stands.
 
2014-08-15 07:48:16 AM  

advex101: ongbok: advex101: The pussification of anything in sports that involves contact with another player continues.

I like how people call all of these rules that are aimed at preventing unnecessary contact in sports pussification. I guess they aren't smart enough to realize that the owners now have millions of dollars in guaranteed money tied up in these players and want to take measures to insure that they aren't paying a guy millions for years after he has a career ending injury that resulted from contact that could have been prevented. When you have a million dollar piece of equipment that you paid for, you are going to take measures to ensure that you get the full life out of it that you expected when you paid for it and do anything you can to reduce factors that while artificially shorten its life.

They're the ones who offered the guaranteed money.  My statement stands.


Also, thank you for acknowledging that it isn't about player safety.  It's about the owners bad contracting decisions.
 
2014-08-15 08:17:15 AM  
Good. the game needs more Earl Weaver in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl-4FSRYagc
 
2014-08-15 09:18:12 AM  
As long as guys like Joe West, Angel Hernandez, and CB Bucknor still have jobs, there's no reason to expect that officiating in the MLB is ever going to get any better.
 
2014-08-15 09:20:54 AM  

worlddan: But there is a bright spot. It pissed the shiat out of Hawk Harrelson and when another similar play went down later in the inning, he seethed "Next thing you know they'll have catcher wearing skirts out there."

You know, if they did that I might actually pay to attend a ball game again.


Micro-mini with no panties. Let's see how long the pitcher can keep his lunch down.
 
2014-08-15 09:27:17 AM  

Dafatone: Why does everyone keep referring to 7.13 as an impossible-to-sort-out mess?

The catcher has to set up with his left foot in fair territory.  If the throw takes him to foul territory, that's fine.  But before the throw comes, he has to set up with his left foot in fair territory.

There.  That's the whole rule.  Done.  Why is this so difficult?

/if it were up to me, I'd just make the rule that all runners have to slide.  You can slide hard and straight into home plate and maybe disrupt a catcher catching a throw, but you're not gonna knock the ball out of him if you're beat.


Yup. Isn't that the rule for all other bases?
 
2014-08-15 09:39:06 AM  

maudibjr: wooo earl of baltimore refrence


Dammit, you made me go and find that song.  I feel old now.
 
2014-08-15 09:40:15 AM  

ongbok: advex101: The pussification of anything in sports that involves contact with another player continues.

I like how people call all of these rules that are aimed at preventing unnecessary contact in sports pussification. I guess they aren't smart enough to realize that the owners now have millions of dollars in guaranteed money tied up in these players and want to take measures to insure that they aren't paying a guy millions for years after he has a career ending injury that resulted from contact that could have been prevented. When you have a million dollar piece of equipment that you paid for, you are going to take measures to ensure that you get the full life out of it that you expected when you paid for it and do anything you can to reduce factors that while artificially shorten its life.


so money trumps play?
 
2014-08-15 09:52:22 AM  
Time to implement senior league rules.  Every play at home plate is a force out and the runner has a separate home plate to run to.
 
2014-08-15 10:24:29 AM  

advex101: The pussification of anything in sports that involves contact with another player continues.


There was nothing sport-like about the old rule at the plate.  No strategy, no superior athleticism.  A poor baserunning decision was rewarded as long as the runner was willing to pretend he was playing football.
 
2014-08-15 10:35:56 AM  

ToastmasterGeneral: advex101: The pussification of anything in sports that involves contact with another player continues.

There was nothing sport-like about the old rule at the plate.  No strategy, no superior athleticism.  A poor baserunning decision was rewarded as long as the runner was willing to pretend he was playing football.


It was good enough for Ty Cobb.  And the catcher is wearing body armor, sort of.
 
2014-08-15 10:45:28 AM  
It's funny to see that baseball thinks it's somehow immune to the massive concussion settlements sweeping the nation. There is no chance MLB reverts back to the old rules. Tweaks may be possible, but nothing will be implemented that encourages collisions.

/Perhaps make it that the runner is still out even if the catchers drops the ball
 
2014-08-15 11:01:28 AM  
It's better than "going Billy Martin".
 
2014-08-15 11:10:25 AM  

Gosling: Can we just go ahead and chalk this up as a failed experiment already and go back to the old rule?


Why?  As a lifelong baseball fan this honestly doesn't seem like a bad rule, nor a difficult one to enforce.  Don't block the plate.  It's that simple.  It's like a play at any other base.

Seems to me the difficulty we're seeing is more with catchers still approaching this from habit and instinct.  But that happens when a rule or play gets changed in any sport.
 
2014-08-15 11:13:12 AM  

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: Why?  As a lifelong baseball fan this honestly doesn't seem like a bad rule, nor a difficult one to enforce.  Don't block the plate.  It's that simple.  It's like a play at any other base.

Seems to me the difficulty we're seeing is more with catchers still approaching this from habit and instinct.  But that happens when a rule or play gets changed in any sport.


I think the issue is catchers aren't really blocking the plate and still getting called on it.

In this play the catcher barely got up to the plate before receiving the ball.

I think there just needs to be a bit more interpretation into the intent of the catcher.  Is he laying his shin-guard down in front of the plate, or is he just trying to field the throw.
 
2014-08-15 11:20:00 AM  
I wonder how much of the problem with 7.13 has to do with the complete clusterfark that video replay is.  In that case, the solution is proving to be worse than the problem it was designed to solve.  Just let the umpires use their best judgement on 7.13 and we'll probably actually have fewer complaints will still eliminating the collisions.
 
2014-08-15 11:39:11 AM  

MugzyBrown: Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: Why?  As a lifelong baseball fan this honestly doesn't seem like a bad rule, nor a difficult one to enforce.  Don't block the plate.  It's that simple.  It's like a play at any other base.

Seems to me the difficulty we're seeing is more with catchers still approaching this from habit and instinct.  But that happens when a rule or play gets changed in any sport.

I think the issue is catchers aren't really blocking the plate and still getting called on it.

In this play the catcher barely got up to the plate before receiving the ball.

I think there just needs to be a bit more interpretation into the intent of the catcher.  Is he laying his shin-guard down in front of the plate, or is he just trying to field the throw.


The guy was obviously blocking the plate. You would never see a fielder positioning themselevs like that at another base. And the play shows exactly why he was doing it, to force any slide away from the plate and give him more time to apply the tag (which he made good use of).

Now, the catcher probably didn't realize what he was doing as it is just instinct that will take time to get past.
 
2014-08-15 11:49:51 AM  

LemSkroob: ongbok: advex101: The pussification of anything in sports that involves contact with another player continues.

I like how people call all of these rules that are aimed at preventing unnecessary contact in sports pussification. I guess they aren't smart enough to realize that the owners now have millions of dollars in guaranteed money tied up in these players and want to take measures to insure that they aren't paying a guy millions for years after he has a career ending injury that resulted from contact that could have been prevented. When you have a million dollar piece of equipment that you paid for, you are going to take measures to ensure that you get the full life out of it that you expected when you paid for it and do anything you can to reduce factors that while artificially shorten its life.

so money trumps play?


This is why advanced stats will take a long time to gain acceptance in all sports. You and Bob Costas have this image of sports that does not exist now, if it ever even did. Sports isn't about human perseverance through adversity, a team achieving a goal, the glory of competition, or the sanctity of a game. Sports is about money. Owners, vendors, and sponsors want your money, that's it.

Moneyball wasn't about a plucky team using newfangled math to overthrow the Triple Crown, it was about how wins could be maximized with the lowest possible payroll.

Sportscasters, writers, and advertisers have created a sports mystique that only serves to keep them employed, and adds nothing to the game. The game is not sacred, the game is not untouchable, the game is not beautiful, it's ultimately pointless. However, there is beauty within the game: a perfectly executed suicide squeeze, a buzzer beating 3-pointer, anything that makes Jay Quitler pout. That is where the focus should be, that is where the joy is, but because we have been conditioned to love THE GAME, anything that threatens the little box that the Bob Costases have built is immediately shouted down.

The moral is that if it makes money, it will happen. Look at all the rule changes to the NFL. They don't want the stars on the sideline in a cast because no one wants to pay to watch a guy who couldn't get the starting gig in Jacksonville suck it up for 3 hours, and that reduces the bottom line.

If you can't stomach that fact, stop watching. If enough people agree with you (spoiler, they won't) then the league will change it back. Otherwise, you'll get over it.
 
2014-08-15 11:51:43 AM  

advex101: ToastmasterGeneral: advex101: The pussification of anything in sports that involves contact with another player continues.

There was nothing sport-like about the old rule at the plate.  No strategy, no superior athleticism.  A poor baserunning decision was rewarded as long as the runner was willing to pretend he was playing football.

It was good enough for Ty Cobb.  And the catcher is wearing body armor, sort of.


When the ball beats you by a significant margin, it's a poor baserunning decision, whether the runner is Cobb, Pete Rose, or Joe Blow.  Stealing home requires skill and athleticism.  A successful hook-slide requires it.  Lowering your shoulder against a stationary target does not.
 
2014-08-15 12:00:20 PM  
I had someone recently suggest to me that on a hit ball play (not a stealing home situation) touching home plate with the ball should be an out if the runner is past the outside edge of the batter's box. That would eliminate the need for the catcher to set up on the 3rd base side, and get rid of a lot of too-close-to-call plays, but still give the runner a chance in a run-down. I congratulated him for finding a reasonable, well-thought-out way to get rid of the only exciting play in baseball.
 
2014-08-15 12:56:31 PM  

advex101: advex101: ongbok: advex101: The pussification of anything in sports that involves contact with another player continues.

I like how people call all of these rules that are aimed at preventing unnecessary contact in sports pussification. I guess they aren't smart enough to realize that the owners now have millions of dollars in guaranteed money tied up in these players and want to take measures to insure that they aren't paying a guy millions for years after he has a career ending injury that resulted from contact that could have been prevented. When you have a million dollar piece of equipment that you paid for, you are going to take measures to ensure that you get the full life out of it that you expected when you paid for it and do anything you can to reduce factors that while artificially shorten its life.

They're the ones who offered the guaranteed money.  My statement stands.

Also, thank you for acknowledging that it isn't about player safety.  It's about the owners bad contracting decisions.


It is about player safety.

Player safety is a financial protection for the owners. As a result the owners support player safety, so the owners implemented a rule change to protect players.

Player safety may not be the end goal, but it is certainly a factor.
 
2014-08-15 01:27:00 PM  
I still say they should make em play football without pads
 
2014-08-15 02:36:11 PM  

italie: "Next thing you know we'll have catchers wearing skirts out there."

//Hawk


"Hawk Harrelson is the failed meme of sports broadcasting."

/rjakobi
 
2014-08-15 05:14:15 PM  
Dumb rule.

However, 100% correct call based on said dumb rule. The umps did their job.

Listening to the White Sox media sh*t their skirts over this has been a treat.
 
2014-08-15 06:31:48 PM  

Gosling: Can we just go ahead and chalk this up as a failed experiment already and go back to the old rule? Yeah, maybe it causes injuries, but at least everybody was on the same page as to what to do. Everybody knew exactly how things were going to go: if you stand aside and allow a lane, apply the tag to record the out; if you stand in the way, hang onto the ball after you get plowed into and you'll get credit for the out. Everybody had it down to instinct.

Now? Nobody has any damn clue about under what precise circumstances you can be in the lane, and nobody has any time to figure it out when the ball's on its way and the runner's barreling for home. You basically have to guess and hope to hell the ump's interpretation of the rule goes in your favor because they can't get it straight either. And so every play at the plate has turned into 'wait, wait, hang on, what's the rule again?' And it's going to cost somebody a playoff game, maybe even a World Series game, sooner rather than later, and I know we don't want to have this argument at that particular time.


How is this rule difficult?  If you don't have the ball, you can't block the plate.
 
2014-08-15 09:30:02 PM  

Khellendros: If you don't have the ball, you can't block the plate.


Unless you are in the act of attempting to receive the ball, and that's where everything goes screwy. Nobody can figure out what exactly that 'act' means and what it doesn't mean.
 
2014-08-16 01:39:24 AM  

Gosling: Khellendros: If you don't have the ball, you can't block the plate.

Unless you are in the act of attempting to receive the ball, and that's where everything goes screwy. Nobody can figure out what exactly that 'act' means and what it doesn't mean.


The wording of that part of the rule could have been written better. It should be fairly easy to determine though. It's like any other base. I actually have a hard time envisioning a situation where the only position for a catcher to receive the throw is directly in the runners path.
 
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