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(Telegraph)   Russia's 262 piece Ukraine-bound trojan horse vanishes out of thin air, is now nowhere to be seen. Be alert, all five Ukrainian Farkers   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 69
    More: Strange, Russians, Ukraine, High Commissioner for Human Rights, ICRC, Cooperation in Europe, military base, Luhansk, russian foreign ministry  
•       •       •

2473 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Aug 2014 at 10:36 AM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



69 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-08-14 09:05:46 AM  
Check the registry.
 
2014-08-14 09:47:48 AM  
Wasn't there a story in the news yesterday that the Russian convoy was diverting its destination to the Luhansk region instead of the agreed-to border crossing and hand-over to the Red Cross? Luhansk is one of the rebel-held areas very close to the Russian border.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-crisis-russia n- aid-convoy-heads-straight-for-rebels-in-luhansk-as-fears-intensify-of- direct-invasion-9667836.html
 
2014-08-14 10:39:22 AM  
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
 
2014-08-14 10:40:11 AM  
Get a Ukraine  moranskis
 
2014-08-14 10:43:17 AM  
Uh-oh. And you all laffed when I bought that 50s bomb shelter. Where is your detante now, mortals?
 
2014-08-14 10:44:40 AM  
G-g-g-g-g-ghost trojan horse trucks???

Yikes!
 
2014-08-14 10:47:34 AM  
They're in Syria with Saddam's WMD
 
2014-08-14 10:50:27 AM  
BeAlert
the world needs more lerts
 
2014-08-14 10:53:30 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-08-14 10:54:15 AM  
So Putin's impotent war requires aid to the people and that aid disappears into pro-Russian hands, is that what I'm seeing here?

Because if that's the case, well... it's not like the pro-Russian people have been making good decisions up to this point anyway.
 
2014-08-14 10:57:41 AM  
Errr, today's latest story in Ukrainian media (like, 4 hours ago) is that the Russian convoy is currently standing in the city of Donetsk (Russian), DO NOT confuse it with Ukrainian Donetsk, and haven't "disappeared" at all. At least 2 western journalists are currently examining it (https://twitter.com/courtneymoscow  ,  https://twitter.com/ARothNYT ) - their blogs.

I'm sorry about destroying the drama, I really am, but hey, what can a guy do if he's a buzz-kill?
 
2014-08-14 10:57:41 AM  
The Grauniad has an update:

Link
 
2014-08-14 10:57:46 AM  

Triple Oak: So Putin's impotent war requires aid to the people and that aid disappears into pro-Russian hands, is that what I'm seeing here?

Because if that's the case, well... it's not like the pro-Russian people have been making good decisions up to this point anyway.


Or the convoy never had much in the way of aid and was just a way to get more arms into the hands of the Russian military and volunteers rebels all along.
 
2014-08-14 10:59:51 AM  
Looks like "aid" to me! Nothing to see here, folks!

pbs.twimg.com
 
2014-08-14 11:07:36 AM  

Grahor: Errr, today's latest story in Ukrainian media (like, 4 hours ago) is that the Russian convoy is currently standing in the city of Donetsk (Russian), DO NOT confuse it with Ukrainian Donetsk, and haven't "disappeared" at all. At least 2 western journalists are currently examining it (https://twitter.com/courtneymoscow  ,  https://twitter.com/ARothNYT ) - their blogs.

I'm sorry about destroying the drama, I really am, but hey, what can a guy do if he's a buzz-kill?


img.fark.net
 
2014-08-14 11:11:38 AM  

Destructor: G-g-g-g-g-ghost trojan horse trucks???

Yikes!


ZOINKS!
 
2014-08-14 11:13:26 AM  
That's INTO thin air, Subby.    Things vanish INTO this air.    Stuff appears out of thin air, vanishes into it.
 
2014-08-14 11:19:48 AM  

Grahor: Errr, today's latest story in Ukrainian media (like, 4 hours ago) is that the Russian convoy is currently standing in the city of Donetsk (Russian), DO NOT confuse it with Ukrainian Donetsk, and haven't "disappeared" at all. At least 2 western journalists are currently examining it


Typical Russia. You got the wrong Donetsk.
 
2014-08-14 11:25:15 AM  
Dolan's Cadillac?
 
2014-08-14 11:35:43 AM  

Grahor: Errr, today's latest story in Ukrainian media (like, 4 hours ago) is that the Russian convoy is currently standing in the city of Donetsk (Russian), DO NOT confuse it with Ukrainian Donetsk, and haven't "disappeared" at all. At least 2 western journalists are currently examining it (https://twitter.com/courtneymoscow  ,  https://twitter.com/ARothNYT ) - their blogs.

I'm sorry about destroying the drama, I really am, but hey, what can a guy do if he's a buzz-kill?


The problem, of course, is that they were supposed to be heading to the Kharkiv customs station with the Red Cross, not Donetsk crossing station (which is right across the border from rebel-held territories). They are over 215 miles away from the agreed-to location for the hand-off.

Quit trying to pretend that nothing is wrong with the convoy and that everyone is overreacting. Russia is breaching its agreement by sending the convoy to Donetsk crossing station.

img.fark.net
 
2014-08-14 12:03:00 PM  
www.transpositions.co.uk

I don't want to see Ukraine destroyed and neither do you. And we all know that's exactly what's going to happen if the Russians takes over the Donetsk Republic. You say you don't want me to sacrifice my life -- fine, neither do I. You want to be gods -- then be gods. I need a miracle. Ukraine needs a miracle. Stop those trucks.
 
2014-08-14 12:05:01 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Looks like "aid" to me! Nothing to see here, folks!

[pbs.twimg.com image 600x450]


Arms to help allies is still aid.  Not humanitarian, but aid.  Since Russia is allies with the pro-Russian rebels, it makes sense that they would send them stuff to help their cause.
 
2014-08-14 12:13:23 PM  

Duck_of_Doom: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Looks like "aid" to me! Nothing to see here, folks!

[pbs.twimg.com image 600x450]

Arms to help allies is still aid.  Not humanitarian, but aid.  Since Russia is allies with the pro-Russian rebels, it makes sense that they would send them stuff to help their cause.


We're doing humanitarian air strikes in Iraq. It's the new academic nomenclature. There are no more wars, it's the 21st century. There are only humanitarian "projects". Pooty Poot is learning from Professor 0bama.
 
2014-08-14 12:29:37 PM  

RexTalionis: The problem, of course, is that they were supposed to be heading to the Kharkiv customs station with the Red Cross, not Donetsk crossing station (which is right across the border from rebel-held territories). They are over 215 miles away from the agreed-to location for the hand-off.


That's not exactly what happened. Read this, for example:  http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/14/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSKBN0G E 0L920140814

 At first indeed the convoy wanted to cross at Kharkiv crossing point, but Ukrainian side didn't want it: "Ukrainian authorities had indicated that they did not want the convoy moving through the government-controlled north-east rim, apparently concerned it might provoke trouble. ", from the same article. As is their right, of course.

Right now there are still no agreement between sides on where to cross the border "In Geneva, a spokeswoman for the International Committee of the Red Cross, which would be responsible for distributing the aid in Ukraine, said: "The question of border crossing procedures and customs clearance (for the convoy) still have to be clarified between the two sides." "

RexTalionis: Quit trying to pretend that nothing is wrong with the convoy and that everyone is overreacting. Russia is breaching its agreement by sending the convoy to Donetsk crossing station.


There is nothing wrong with the convoy because there were no actual agreements yet for Russia to breach. Kharkiv border crossing was assumed, but the agreement wasn't achieved because Ukrainian authorities didn't want the convoy to cross there.

Now, if Russia tried to let the convoy in through Izvaryne crossing that would indeed be a breach of agreement - because Izvaryne is in the hands of separatists and not in the hands of Ukrainian forces, and any crossing must be done through Ukrainian-controlled territory.

However, if the convoy will move further south, as far as I know, Komintern and Maksimov crossings are in the hands of Ukrainian authorities, and it can be used for crossing. If they won't be, and if the Russia would indeed move through Izvaryne, that would most certainly be a breach of agreement. But they haven't done it yet, and until they'll done it, there is no point being hysterical.
 
2014-08-14 12:45:45 PM  

Grahor: That's not exactly what happened. Read this, for example: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/14/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSKBN0G E 0L920140814

At first indeed the convoy wanted to cross at Kharkiv crossing point, but Ukrainian side didn't want it: "Ukrainian authorities had indicated that they did not want the convoy moving through the government-controlled north-east rim, apparently concerned it might provoke trouble. ", from the same article. As is their right, of course.


Your article doesn't say that.

Grahor: Right now there are still no agreement between sides on where to cross the border "In Geneva, a spokeswoman for the International Committee of the Red Cross, which would be responsible for distributing the aid in Ukraine, said: "The question of border crossing procedures and customs clearance (for the convoy) still have to be clarified between the two sides." "


Your article doesn't say that either.

Grahor: Now, if Russia tried to let the convoy in through Izvaryne crossing that would indeed be a breach of agreement - because Izvaryne is in the hands of separatists and not in the hands of Ukrainian forces, and any crossing must be done through Ukrainian-controlled territory.


You already said the convoy is at Donetsk in Russia and that if they cross at Izvaryne.

Izvaryne is directly across the border from Donetsk, where the convoy is currently located. Where do you think they're attempting to cross?

img.fark.net
 
2014-08-14 12:58:15 PM  

Grahor: Now, if Russia tried to let the convoy in through Izvaryne crossing that would indeed be a breach of agreement - because Izvaryne is in the hands of separatists and not in the hands of Ukrainian forces, and any crossing must be done through Ukrainian-controlled territory.


Meanwhile, this was in your article:

"By Thursday evening, the convoy had stopped near Kamensk-Shakhtinsky and one of the drivers told Reuters it would be heading to the crossing point at Izvarine, which is held by the Ukrainian rebels. "
 
2014-08-14 01:04:39 PM  

RexTalionis: Your article doesn't say that.


The article most certainly said that 15 minutes ago, when I've posted it. All the direct quotes. The article have changed in the last 15 minutes. There was "Border Doubts" subpart in the article, now there is "Shortages" subpart instead.

This is the copy of the page with the quotes intact:  http://www.todayszaman.com/world_shells-hit-central-donetsk-aid-convo y -heads-towards_355617.html

You can also google-search the quotes - I've copied them directly, so they could be still seen in google, although google cache also offers only a new version of the article. I had no idea that Reuters operates its site this way.

RexTalionis: Izvaryne is directly across the border from Donetsk, where the convoy is currently located. Where do you think they're attempting to cross?


Komintern or Maksimov, as I wrote earlier. The main road towards any of those crossings is 30 kilometers from Donetsk.

Both main separatists cities, Luhansk and Donetsk, are completely cut off from Izvaryne by Ukrainian forces, so if trucks were to cross there, they won't be able to get to Donetsk or Luhansk anyway, so I don't think Russian authorities really want to cross there.

Alternatively, they may hope to achieve some agreement that will allow Red Cross to check the goods on the Russian side of the border, but it's not gonna happen.
 
2014-08-14 01:08:38 PM  

RexTalionis: Meanwhile, this was in your article:


Not when I've read it, it wasn't there then. 

RexTalionis: "By Thursday evening, the convoy had stopped near Kamensk-Shakhtinsky and one of the drivers told Reuters it would be heading to the crossing point at Izvarine, which is held by the Ukrainian rebels. "


Which, of course, would be a complete breaking of the agreement. However, Kamensk-Shakhtinsky is directly on the road to Komintern and Maksimov crossings, and I doubt a driver really knows the future plans. That's not exactly how Russians operate. He simply assumes that they are going there. What will really happen is yet to be seen.
 
2014-08-14 01:17:19 PM  

Grahor: Both main separatists cities, Luhansk and Donetsk, are completely cut off from Izvaryne by Ukrainian forces, so if trucks were to cross there, they won't be able to get to Donetsk or Luhansk anyway, so I don't think Russian authorities really want to cross there.


Ukranian forces only cut off Izvaryne from Luhansk only within the past few hours, well after the Russian Convoy was already en route to Izvaryne crossing. Let's not pretend that the Russians picked Izvaryne because they knew the Ukranians were going to be there to inspect the goods.
 
2014-08-14 01:23:32 PM  

RexTalionis: Let's not pretend that the Russians picked Izvaryne because they knew the Ukranians were going to be there to inspect the goods.


I don't think "Russians picked Izvaryne". There is only one road leading towards all border crossings in that region; no matter which one they would have picked, the convoy have no choice but to move through Kamensk-Shakhtinsky, which is 40 kilometers from Izvaryne.

If they were to cross in Izvaryne, why would they set up a camp rather than just move there? We'll see how it'll develop.
 
2014-08-14 01:25:33 PM  

Grahor: RexTalionis: Let's not pretend that the Russians picked Izvaryne because they knew the Ukranians were going to be there to inspect the goods.

I don't think "Russians picked Izvaryne". There is only one road leading towards all border crossings in that region; no matter which one they would have picked, the convoy have no choice but to move through Kamensk-Shakhtinsky, which is 40 kilometers from Izvaryne.

If they were to cross in Izvaryne, why would they set up a camp rather than just move there? We'll see how it'll develop.


Considering that the Red Cross is now at the convoy camp, I'd say that Izvaryne was the intended crossing.

https://twitter.com/ARothNYT/status/499894322842845185
 
2014-08-14 01:27:57 PM  
https://twitter.com/shaunwalker7/status/499961048448126978

Russian APCs heading towards the border at Izvaryne.
 
2014-08-14 01:30:23 PM  
pbs.twimg.com

Separate convoy of about 20 Russian APCs heading towards Ukraine border - about 10 km away.
 
2014-08-14 01:32:41 PM  
https://twitter.com/ARothNYT/status/499971368579264512/photo/1

More shots of Russian military vehicles heading towards the Ukraine border.

pbs.twimg.com

Totally innocent, eh, Grahor?
 
2014-08-14 01:34:23 PM  
 
2014-08-14 01:39:32 PM  

RexTalionis: https://twitter.com/ARothNYT/status/499971368579264512/photo/1

More shots of Russian military vehicles heading towards the Ukraine border.

[pbs.twimg.com image 600x450]

Totally innocent, eh, Grahor?


That's the command unit of a BUK missile system.
 
2014-08-14 01:45:53 PM  

Grahor: RexTalionis: Let's not pretend that the Russians picked Izvaryne because they knew the Ukranians were going to be there to inspect the goods.

I don't think "Russians picked Izvaryne". There is only one road leading towards all border crossings in that region; no matter which one they would have picked, the convoy have no choice but to move through Kamensk-Shakhtinsky, which is 40 kilometers from Izvaryne.

If they were to cross in Izvaryne, why would they set up a camp rather than just move there? We'll see how it'll develop.


You know Putin still isn't going to sleep with you, right.
 
2014-08-14 01:49:34 PM  
RexTalionis:

Well done RexTalionis.

A word of advise about dealing with the Gayhor shills
They work in shifts posting under the Gayhor alt.
And they don't read each others posts very well

You will have to repeat all that when the shift changes later.
 
2014-08-14 02:05:52 PM  

RexTalionis: Totally innocent, eh, Grahor?


*sigh* and? They are constantly moving around the border, openly and for a long time. It's not "innocent", it's a part of intimidation campaign, but they haven't crossed, yet, and aren't going to, in my opinion, for now. The guy who posted the picture is right there, he is driving behind the vehicles. I think he'll post another picture the moment those APCs will cross into Ukraine, no?

Russia is not "innocent" by a long time and by a long shot, but neither it's starting the invasion.
 
2014-08-14 02:16:34 PM  

Grahor: *sigh* and? They are constantly moving around the border, openly and for a long time. It's not "innocent", it's a part of intimidation campaign, but they haven't crossed, yet, and aren't going to, in my opinion, for now. The guy who posted the picture is right there, he is driving behind the vehicles. I think he'll post another picture the moment those APCs will cross into Ukraine, no?

Russia is not "innocent" by a long time and by a long shot, but neither it's starting the invasion.


Wait.

Wait.   Wait wait.  Wait.

You spent months assuring us that Russia has NOTHING to do with any of the insurgencies in Ukraine, both in mainland and Crimea.   Now you're saying that Russia isn't "innocent"?
 
2014-08-14 02:21:40 PM  

Grahor: *sigh* and? They are constantly moving around the border, openly and for a long time. It's not "innocent", it's a part of intimidation campaign, but they haven't crossed, yet, and aren't going to, in my opinion, for now. The guy who posted the picture is right there, he is driving behind the vehicles. I think he'll post another picture the moment those APCs will cross into Ukraine, no?


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/14/world/europe/ukraine-claims-full-c on trol-of-port-city-of-mariupol.html?_r=0

DONETSK, Ukraine - The State Department said Friday that Russia had sent tanks and other heavy weapons to separatists in Ukraine, supporting accusations Thursday by the Ukrainian government.

A convoy of three T-64 tanks, several BM-21 multiple rocket launchers and other military vehicles crossed the border near the Ukrainian town of Snizhne, State Department officials said. The Ukrainian Army reported Friday that it had destroyed two of the tanks and several other vehicles in the convoy.
 
2014-08-14 02:27:19 PM  

Grahor: *sigh* and? They are constantly moving around the border, openly and for a long time. It's not "innocent", it's a part of intimidation campaign, but they haven't crossed, yet, and aren't going to, in my opinion, for now. The guy who posted the picture is right there, he is driving behind the vehicles. I think he'll post another picture the moment those APCs will cross into Ukraine, no?


U.S. officials said in July they had identified a separatist training facility near Rostov, and a surface-to-air rocket that turned up in east Ukraine in June originated from a base near Moscow, according to its logbook.

On Russia's border with Ukraine, some 170 kilometres north of Rostov, there is further evidence pointing to Russia's role in the insurrection.

A gap a few metres wide has been cut in the razor-wire fence opening a route for vehicles and pedestrians to the rebel-controlled area of eastern Ukraine.

On the Russian side of the divide, a track leads towards the Russian town of Donetsk, 1 km away and bearing the same name as the rebel stronghold in Ukraine. The soil has the imprints of caterpillar treads, the kind used on tanks or some types of armoured personnel carriers.

When Reuters visited this section of border in late July and early August, two Russian border guards emerged from bushes and waved the reporter away. "It's better not to drive here", one said.

The guards denied that armoured personnel carriers or tanks had crossed into Ukraine along the rough track.
A kilometre away, on the outskirts of the Russian town of Donetsk, caterpillar treads have left white marks on the roadside.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/13/uk-ukraine-crisis-border-id UK KBN0GD08V20140813
 
2014-08-14 02:27:21 PM  

Grahor:

Russia is not "innocent" by a long time and by a long shot, but neither it's starting the invasion.


img.fark.net
Medvedev: Have we started the invasion yet?

Putin: Nyet! Well, apart from:
Invading and occupying the Ukrainian peninsula of Crimea;
Sending troops into Eastern Ukraine;
Sending tanks and rockets into Eastern Ukraine;
Shelling Eastern Ukraine from across the Russian boarder; and
Shooting down MH-17 with a Russian Buk missile, killing all aboard, no, we haven't started the invasion yet.

Medvedev: Oh good.
 
2014-08-14 02:32:05 PM  

RexTalionis: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/14/world/europe/ukraine-claims-full-c on trol-of-port-city-of-mariupol.html?_r=0



Errr, 2 months ago? Yeah, it's very likely some tanks and other heavy weaponry have ended up in Ukraine, sent by Russians, manned by separatists. No direct evidence, but the indirect evidence is mounting. Most certainly Russia supplied separatists with money and (likely Ukraine/Poland-purchased, but with Russian money) weaponry and ammunition.

I fail to see, however, how it is relevant to current situation.
 
2014-08-14 02:37:10 PM  

Grahor: RexTalionis: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/14/world/europe/ukraine-claims-full-c on trol-of-port-city-of-mariupol.html?_r=0


Errr, 2 months ago? Yeah, it's very likely some tanks and other heavy weaponry have ended up in Ukraine, sent by Russians, manned by separatists. No direct evidence, but the indirect evidence is mounting. Most certainly Russia supplied separatists with money and (likely Ukraine/Poland-purchased, but with Russian money) weaponry and ammunition.

I fail to see, however, how it is relevant to current situation.


You fail to see because you don't want to look.

You said Russia has been moving around heavy weapons in the region as an intimidation tactic, but the weapons haven't crossed the border yet.

There's mounting evidence that they have.

Hell, there's a Russian soldier who decided to post a picture of himself...with the GPS coordinates being inside the Ukraine.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/08/opposite-of-opsec-russian -s oldier-posts-selfies-from-inside-ukraine/

No amount of evidence will dissuade you, because anything that disagrees with your views, you reject.
 
2014-08-14 02:40:46 PM  

RexTalionis: U.S. officials said in July they had identified a separatist training facility near Rostov


I don't think there is any doubt that there are training camps for separatists in the region. They are supposed to be private enterprises, not state ones, but it's very likely they are heavily supported by Russian state.

RexTalionis: a surface-to-air rocket that turned up in east Ukraine in June originated from a base near Moscow, according to its logbook.


Yeah, I'm aware of it. The photos of the page from logbook were all around internet. It's a pity it's pretty much the only photo that directly connects Russia to ammunition/weaponry of separatists.

As for the caterpilar threads, well, there is a REASON separatists so desperately trying to control the border with Russia. There is absolutely zero doubt that they are using Russia to supply themselves and so on. But, again, I completely fail to see how it is relevant to our discussion of Russia starting open direct invasion right now, or not.
 
2014-08-14 02:43:15 PM  

Spare Me: Duck_of_Doom: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Looks like "aid" to me! Nothing to see here, folks!

[pbs.twimg.com image 600x450]

Arms to help allies is still aid.  Not humanitarian, but aid.  Since Russia is allies with the pro-Russian rebels, it makes sense that they would send them stuff to help their cause.

We're doing humanitarian air strikes in Iraq. It's the new academic nomenclature. There are no more wars, it's the 21st century. There are only humanitarian "projects". Pooty Poot is learning from Professor 0bama.


LOL, I bet this is Obama's fault!

Please Spare Me:
 
2014-08-14 02:43:38 PM  

RexTalionis: You said Russia has been moving around heavy weapons in the region as an intimidation tactic, but the weapons haven't crossed the border yet.


I've SAID that the Russian forces IN THE PICTURES, 20 apcs, all those weapon platforms, openly moving in the full sight of foreign journalists ARE NOT GOING TO CROSS IN UKRAINE.

I'm not saying that Russian weaponry haven't ended up in Ukraine. In fact, I quite agree that it did. It's just it's irrelevant to both convoy and the images you've posted.
 
2014-08-14 02:44:42 PM  

Grahor: The guy who posted the picture is right there, he is driving behind the vehicles. I think he'll post another picture the moment those APCs will cross into Ukraine, no?


Oh, hey, look at this:

img.fark.net

https://twitter.com/RolandOliphant/status/499986161121898496

It's from one of the western journalists trailing the Ukraine convoy.
 
2014-08-14 02:46:27 PM  

Grahor: I've SAID that the Russian forces IN THE PICTURES, 20 apcs, all those weapon platforms, openly moving in the full sight of foreign journalists ARE NOT GOING TO CROSS IN UKRAINE.


img.fark.net

I'll post this again, just for the context.
 
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