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(The Register)   Have trouble getting to some sites yesterday? That's because the Internet ran out of tubes   (theregister.co.uk ) divider line
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5949 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Aug 2014 at 6:40 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-13 03:38:23 PM  
There was a collision between two dump trucks.   Backed things up.
 
2014-08-13 03:58:33 PM  
She's a beauty (She's one in a million girl)
 
2014-08-13 04:45:58 PM  
He was so wise. We should have listened to him when he tried to warn us.

blog.thebrickfactory.com
 
2014-08-13 06:55:03 PM  
That sounds like a serious pro+++[[[NO CARRIER]]]+++
 
2014-08-13 06:55:57 PM  
Needs more fiber.
 
2014-08-13 06:56:21 PM  
Wasn't 512K supposed to be enough for everybody?
 
2014-08-13 06:58:04 PM  

shanrick: She's a beauty (She's one in a million girl)


That made me laugh way more than it should have!

Thank you.
 
2014-08-13 07:00:13 PM  
That explains the lag and packet drop that made me have to kill Dominus twice last night.

\didn't even drop any good loot the second time
 
2014-08-13 07:00:55 PM  
I never figured out why Stevens got so much shiat for that line. People dunno what a metaphor is?
 
2014-08-13 07:05:40 PM  

moothemagiccow: I never figured out why Stevens got so much shiat for that line. People dunno what a metaphor is?



Maybe because it is a poor metaphor?
 
2014-08-13 07:11:32 PM  
Glad to know it wasn't just me. The rest of you had to suffer, too.
 
2014-08-13 07:12:56 PM  
Was going to say that everyone who's ever used a 56K line knows what 512K means, why it's important - and why it's ALWAYS going to be "Let's try sucking down the ocean through a straw."
 
2014-08-13 07:23:57 PM  

PapaChester: moothemagiccow: I never figured out why Stevens got so much shiat for that line. People dunno what a metaphor is?


Maybe because it is a poor metaphor?




Coming from a non-tech savvy politician, an older one at that, its actually not that bad.

/People understand plumbing better than they understand routing.
/I may have used it once or twice myself to explain net neutrality.
 
2014-08-13 07:45:10 PM  

moothemagiccow: I never figured out why Stevens got so much shiat for that line. People dunno what a metaphor is?


It was a poor metaphor, probably paraphrased from whatever a lobbyist told him.
 
2014-08-13 08:51:43 PM  
I've got a couple of 6146B's and a 12BY7A I can donate to the cause.
 
2014-08-13 08:58:09 PM  
Nothing too bad last night, but I had some horrendous lag this morning.  It was bad enough that I actually cleaned my apartment and got some other work done.
 
2014-08-13 09:01:45 PM  

Cpl.D: Jedekai: Was going to say that everyone who's ever used a 56K line knows what 512K means, why it's important - and why it's ALWAYS going to be "Let's try sucking down the ocean through a straw."

I remember dialing a BBS on a rotary phone and sticking the handset into a giant cradle.  The handset was make out of Bakelite and the cradle was carved out of a solid block of wood.  Later, we set up both computers in town up with a jury rigged token ring network.  It worked great for five days before someone hit one of the coax connectors with a lawnmower.  We didn't feel like fixing it, so we told the townsfolk the token must've fallen out of the line and we have to look for it.  After seven days of looking the yard owners gave up.


Jesus. We used to just hit up the old landlines that Qualcomm West (Billings, MT) had running through the city in 1997 and generate the World's Most Illegal T1 Line. Thank God for the Statute of Limitations... ANYWAY - we wound up getting the Quake 2 ISO in just over a few hours. It was amazing. The story was ran in the Billings Gazette calling us 'A Shadowy Cabal of Hackers'.

Well, at least they actually used the word 'Hacker' right. Except it was two of us.... and QWest gave us the maps for free... try doing THAT now.
 
2014-08-13 09:20:37 PM  
http://www.cidr-report.org/as2.0/#Gains <--- list of assholes that need to summarize their routes better.
 
2014-08-13 09:37:30 PM  

Jedekai: Cpl.D: Jedekai: Was going to say that everyone who's ever used a 56K line knows what 512K means, why it's important - and why it's ALWAYS going to be "Let's try sucking down the ocean through a straw."

I remember dialing a BBS on a rotary phone and sticking the handset into a giant cradle.  The handset was make out of Bakelite and the cradle was carved out of a solid block of wood.  Later, we set up both computers in town up with a jury rigged token ring network.  It worked great for five days before someone hit one of the coax connectors with a lawnmower.  We didn't feel like fixing it, so we told the townsfolk the token must've fallen out of the line and we have to look for it.  After seven days of looking the yard owners gave up.

Jesus. We used to just hit up the old landlines that Qualcomm West (Billings, MT) had running through the city in 1997 and generate the World's Most Illegal T1 Line. Thank God for the Statute of Limitations... ANYWAY - we wound up getting the Quake 2 ISO in just over a few hours. It was amazing. The story was ran in the Billings Gazette calling us 'A Shadowy Cabal of Hackers'.

Well, at least they actually used the word 'Hacker' right. Except it was two of us.... and QWest gave us the maps for free... try doing THAT now.


A cabal of cable hackers? Rolls off the tongue real Purdy if you put the emPHAsis on the right sylLAble.
 
2014-08-13 10:29:29 PM  

PapaChester: moothemagiccow: I never figured out why Stevens got so much shiat for that line. People dunno what a metaphor is?


Maybe because it is a poor metaphor?


Except that it's not.
 
2014-08-13 10:35:17 PM  
Sorry guys; that was me. I was running down my porn bookmarks folder in PaleMoon and accidentally hit "Open All in Tabs" instead of the last entry.
 
2014-08-13 10:42:24 PM  

PapaChester: moothemagiccow: I never figured out why Stevens got so much shiat for that line. People dunno what a metaphor is?


Maybe because it is a poor metaphor?


It's actually a good metaphor. It was the rest of the speech that was batshiat crazy. The "tubes" part is what stuck though, mostly because he was so oddly emphatic about it. But that was the accurate part.
 
2014-08-13 10:46:44 PM  

igotitb4you: http://www.cidr-report.org/as2.0/#Gains <--- list of assholes that need to summarize their routes better.


Damn.  Came here to link to the latest CIDR report, but you got it before I did (yep).

For the challenged here, 30 organizations that send route anouncements on the Internet could theoretically cut the current total number of routes down from >512K to about 25% of that by aggregating their routes.

These are organizations that supposedly have networking professionals in their employ.  News arcticles are tending to say "they should have upgraded their equipment!"  Well, yes.  But this is partly an artificial problem caused by un-professionals.
 
2014-08-13 10:55:49 PM  
Coincidentally this happened while I was at work trying to stream "White Punks on Dope".

/good song
//otherwise I got nothing
 
2014-08-13 11:24:35 PM  
I see everyone has the Stevens angle covered. I'll just add: This is like Rumsfeld. There's nothing wrong with "There are known/unknown knowns/unknowns." There's something wrong with making deals between America and Iraq, and then turning around, and then a few years later pretending to be morally horrified by how horrible Saddam Hussein was. Why harp on the only rational thing Rumsfeld said the whole time?

Oh yeah and him trying to cut the crap out of military procurement. Which they also shiat on him for.
 
2014-08-13 11:36:08 PM  

moothemagiccow: I never figured out why Stevens got so much shiat for that line. People dunno what a metaphor is?


Because Stephens took it literally.
 
2014-08-13 11:42:18 PM  
Surprised it took this long to make it to Fark. A buddy asked me about it yesterday morning - didn't get the answer until the afternoon.

As to aggregating advertisements, I suspect automatic aggregation may very well be a feature deployed in a future version of IOS for use in situations such as this. I wonder how difficult and CPU/memory intensive such an aggregation routine might actually be or if it would be easier just to dynamically expand the number of routes to maintain connectivity...
 
2014-08-14 12:43:06 AM  
I used to have a 13ms ping over 9 hops from my home in Vancouver to my VPN provider in Seattle. It was almost direct. Then Shaw cheaped out on their peering or something and now I go through San Jose, raising my ping to 35ms over 12 hops. Annoying. Their response was "just let the routes sort themselves out"... about a year ago.
 
2014-08-14 01:48:41 AM  

Nexzus: I used to have a 13ms ping over 9 hops from my home in Vancouver to my VPN provider in Seattle. It was almost direct. Then Shaw cheaped out on their peering or something and now I go through San Jose, raising my ping to 35ms over 12 hops. Annoying. Their response was "just let the routes sort themselves out"... about a year ago.


THIS  ^^^

Bean counters and noobs have been allowed to make some very silly peering decisions based solely on cost and/or business alliances with other entities.  There's a lot of traffic going around the proverbial C4H4AsH to get to the elbow.
 
2014-08-14 02:23:40 AM  
was scratching my head yesterday wondering WTF was happening.
Now I know. Cool.
 
2014-08-14 03:10:13 AM  

PapaChester: Maybe because it is a poor metaphor?


Ask your average network geek how the internet works and you will be begging for that metaphor after just a few minutes.
 
2014-08-14 06:50:37 AM  
And instead of fixing it, they are just going to charge more for it.

Supply and demand, ya know?
 
2014-08-14 08:49:52 AM  
You'd think Gore would have planned ahead.
 
2014-08-14 09:55:28 AM  

LoneVVolf: Sorry guys; that was me. I was running down my porn bookmarks folder in PaleMoon and accidentally hit "Open All in Tabs" instead of the last entry.


Heheheheheh.

And corporations wonder why they get hacked all the time.
 
2014-08-14 10:11:43 AM  

Fark like a Barsoomian: I see everyone has the Stevens angle covered. I'll just add: This is like Rumsfeld. There's nothing wrong with "There are known/unknown knowns/unknowns." There's something wrong with making deals between America and Iraq, and then turning around, and then a few years later pretending to be morally horrified by how horrible Saddam Hussein was. Why harp on the only rational thing Rumsfeld said the whole time?

Oh yeah and him trying to cut the crap out of military procurement. Which they also shiat on him for.


That's actually a good observation that I've used a number of times myself.  It was an accurate and and intelligent assessment of any situation where you don't have perfect knowledge.

So whenever someone makes fun of it, they automatically go down a peg or two in my assessment of their intelligence.  Like you said, there's a bunch of things you can ding Rumsfeld for, but that's not one of them.
 
2014-08-14 10:38:42 AM  

UsikFark: moothemagiccow: I never figured out why Stevens got so much shiat for that line. People dunno what a metaphor is?

It was a poor metaphor, probably paraphrased from whatever a lobbyist told him.


Taking it literally and assuming he meant vacuum tubes, maybe. It would be like me saying "not everything is black and white, there are shades of gray" and you claiming I'm ignorant that colors exist.  No, it's not literally a series of tubes, it's literally a complex network of conductors and switches. It's not even that far off. The whole response seemed insipid and snide, like "oh wow, this guy thinks the internet is a vacuum tube network."
 
2014-08-14 10:41:38 AM  

moothemagiccow: I never figured out why Stevens got so much shiat for that line. People dunno what a metaphor is?


It's inapt for something as large and complicated as the Internet and shows the nearly complete lack of insight he has into the giant, complicated thing he's writing legislation for.

At a very, very, very, very, very, very, VERY basic level of networking, the "series of tubes" analogy is sufficient to explain the most basic functions of TCP/IP and Ethernet networking, but it doesn't even scale to something like a multi-campus WAN, much less the entire Internet, which he was discussing at the time. In the context of resources utilization and exhaustion, the Internet is NOTHING like a series of tubes that can get clogged up or overfilled. If you're going to make a weak analogy with a public utility, it's much more like the electrical grid.

It's not so much that his analogy is wrong for very simple networking discussions, but he wasn't talking about his home Wifi setup at the time, he was talking about legislation aimed squarely at the whole of the Internet, and the Internet works NOTHING like your home setup beyond anything but the most basic level.

It would be like somebody standing up in the middle of a debate over military funding and describing the Army as being not like a knitting bee, but more like a cub scout gathering. There may be some very superficial similarities, but because of the massive difference in functions and complexity, they're actually nothing alike for the much more advanced purposes of the discussion.
 
2014-08-14 10:54:34 AM  

with great power comes great insanity: Coincidentally this happened while I was at work trying to stream "White Punks on Dope".

/good song
//otherwise I got nothing


I prefer "talk to ya later", but to each their own.

Just don't play "the monkey time" for god's sake.  "She's a beauty" is better, even if it's been over played.
 
2014-08-14 10:55:59 AM  

Spermbot: moothemagiccow: I never figured out why Stevens got so much shiat for that line. People dunno what a metaphor is?

Because Stephens took it literally.


^THAT^  He really thought it was a series of tubes.  Like those vacuum messaging systems.
 
2014-08-14 10:56:43 AM  

Nexzus: I used to have a 13ms ping over 9 hops from my home in Vancouver to my VPN provider in Seattle. It was almost direct. Then Shaw cheaped out on their peering or something and now I go through San Jose, raising my ping to 35ms over 12 hops. Annoying. Their response was "just let the routes sort themselves out"... about a year ago.


Vantucky bro fist.
 
2014-08-14 11:01:04 AM  

PluckYew: Nexzus: I used to have a 13ms ping over 9 hops from my home in Vancouver to my VPN provider in Seattle. It was almost direct. Then Shaw cheaped out on their peering or something and now I go through San Jose, raising my ping to 35ms over 12 hops. Annoying. Their response was "just let the routes sort themselves out"... about a year ago.

Vantucky bro fist.


Ooops.  Wrong Vancouver.  You're in "New" Vancouver.
 
2014-08-14 11:06:04 AM  

PluckYew: Spermbot: moothemagiccow: I never figured out why Stevens got so much shiat for that line. People dunno what a metaphor is?

Because Stephens took it literally.

^THAT^  He really thought it was a series of tubes.  Like those vacuum messaging systems.


Actually, that's really all it is.  It's just that the tubes send electrons instead of paper messages and physical currency.

Interestingly, the first "internet" actually used those pneumatic messaging systems for short-haul, high volume communications.  It was quicker and cheaper to send a bunch of individual messages that way back and forth between, say, the stock exchange and the local telegraph office than to try and telegraph them.
 
2014-08-14 11:36:51 AM  

moothemagiccow: UsikFark: moothemagiccow: I never figured out why Stevens got so much shiat for that line. People dunno what a metaphor is?

It was a poor metaphor, probably paraphrased from whatever a lobbyist told him.

Taking it literally and assuming he meant vacuum tubes, maybe. It would be like me saying "not everything is black and white, there are shades of gray" and you claiming I'm ignorant that colors exist.  No, it's not literally a series of tubes, it's literally a complex network of conductors and switches. It's not even that far off. The whole response seemed insipid and snide, like "oh wow, this guy thinks the internet is a vacuum tube network."


If you hear the rest of his speech, he talks about the internet being so strained he sent an "internet" to a colleague and it took a week to arrive. He figured it was FIFO tubes, I think.
 
2014-08-14 12:09:31 PM  

UsikFark: moothemagiccow: UsikFark: moothemagiccow: I never figured out why Stevens got so much shiat for that line. People dunno what a metaphor is?

It was a poor metaphor, probably paraphrased from whatever a lobbyist told him.

Taking it literally and assuming he meant vacuum tubes, maybe. It would be like me saying "not everything is black and white, there are shades of gray" and you claiming I'm ignorant that colors exist.  No, it's not literally a series of tubes, it's literally a complex network of conductors and switches. It's not even that far off. The whole response seemed insipid and snide, like "oh wow, this guy thinks the internet is a vacuum tube network."

If you hear the rest of his speech, he talks about the internet being so strained he sent an "internet" to a colleague and it took a week to arrive. He figured it was FIFO tubes, I think.


Back in the late 1990's, I once had an e-mail that took two months to get to me.

I haven't had one that was noticeably late in at least a decade, at least not one that wasn't related to "last mile" connection issues that either prevented the mail from being sent, or from it being received, but the heart of what he was saying wasn't an unreasonable thing, at least for someone who isn't tech-savvy, which most people aren't.

Even the vast majority of the people who work and play on the internet have very little understanding of how it actually *WORKS*.
 
2014-08-14 01:30:53 PM  
I'm still having problems getting to some sites.
 
2014-08-14 01:56:37 PM  

Tobin_Lam: I'm still having problems getting to some sites.


Me too.  I haven't been able to hit Fark at all in a couple of days, and still can't.
 
2014-08-14 02:17:54 PM  
this is like 2^8 times worse than Y2K
 
2014-08-14 04:47:13 PM  

skozlaw: they're actually nothing alike for the much more advanced purposes of the discussion.


You expect alot from an aging politician tho.

img.fark.net


"They want to deliver vast amounts of information over the Internet. And again, the Internet is not something that you just dump something on. It's not a big truck.  It's a series of tubes. And if you don't understand, those tubes can be filled and if they are filled, when you put your message in, it gets in line and it's going to be delayed by anyone that puts into that tube enormous amounts of material, enormous amounts of material "

I mean, this isn't an MIT level explanation of what's going on, but for a politician he seemed to have at least a loose grasp of a subject that was still evolving at the time. 
If any elderly person came to me and explained it like this eight years ago, I'd probably nod my head and say "yea, its exactly like that..."
...Cause I know that this is about as close as I'm gonna get with a technology they understand. 


/and here we are with some tubes getting filled, others are getting blocked, some are poorly managed.
/and the people who own some of the tubes want to choose what goes through their tubes, so they can make more money off of everyone elses tubes.
/yea, we can work with this analogy so far as it matters.
 
2014-08-14 07:45:53 PM  

way south: You expect alot from an aging politician tho.


No, I expect somebody writing legislation that affects my livelihood to have an understanding of what the hell he's talking about. Whether he's elderly or not has nothing to do with it. If he doesn't understand it, he shouldn't be trying to write or vote on rules about it.
 
2014-08-14 07:50:31 PM  

skozlaw: way south: You expect alot from an aging politician tho.

No, I expect somebody writing legislation that affects my livelihood to have an understanding of what the hell he's talking about. Whether he's elderly or not has nothing to do with it. If he doesn't understand it, he shouldn't be trying to write or vote on rules about it.


And, incidentally, his "series of tubes" nonsense isn't even the worst part. It's his fundamental misunderstanding of delivery, redelivery, prioritization, shaping, blocking and traffic queuing. No part of the Internet he would have been legislating actually works the way the end of his explanation indicates it does. At all. Ever. "The Internet", as a monolithic thing of disparate parts, does not function in a FIFO manner in many, many cases.
 
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