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(The Raw Story)   Undercover audio exposes stalker tactics used by Texas anti-abortion groups   (rawstory.com) divider line 212
    More: Scary  
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3830 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Aug 2014 at 2:31 PM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-13 11:34:09 AM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-08-13 11:52:57 AM  
Compiling spreadsheets with license plates, make and model, description of the person, figuring out their names, stalking them through tax records and physically following them after they leave the clinic?

A 35 foot buffer zone doesn't seem too much to ask for anymore does it?
 
2014-08-13 11:57:14 AM  
So, does Texas have anti-stalker law on the books?
 
2014-08-13 12:09:30 PM  
As a counter move, I suggest James O'Keefe pretend to be a pregnant slut and try to go get an abortion.

Now that will take some creative editing!
 
2014-08-13 12:14:58 PM  
So, preemptively macing the crowd is OK, right?
 
2014-08-13 12:16:48 PM  

dr_blasto: So, does Texas have anti-stalker law on the books?


Yes -- section 42.072.
 
2014-08-13 12:19:22 PM  
Terms used in article:
Pro-Choice
anti-abortion
anti-choice
Pro-Life

This is one of the major problems of the abortion debate, the terminology, it's too binary and borderline dishonest. A person can be pro-choice AND pro-life*.In fact, I would say that almost all of the people on the pro-choice side are for life. There aren't a lot of protests outside of maternity clinics telling women to abort their fetus**. So maybe it's time to recouch the debate into more accurate terms. Like "autonomous control of female reproduction" vs "governmental control of female reproduction".


* (or if they're really sick anti-choice and anti-life which means that all babies should be killed).
** (after I typed that, I kinda wanna do it)
 
2014-08-13 12:21:10 PM  

Diogenes: As a counter move, I suggest James O'Keefe pretend to be a pregnant slut and try to go get an abortion.

Now that will take some creative editing!


i.ytimg.com
South Park did it.
 
2014-08-13 12:21:30 PM  
"Since 1993," wrote Mary Tuma of the  Austin Chronicle, "eight clinic workers, including four doctors and two clinic employees have been killed by anti-abortion violence in the United States.

Since 1991, a recorded 17 murder attempts have taken place."


Pro-Life, my ass.

These are dangerous, delusional, control freaks who need to have an eye kept on them before they kill again.
 
2014-08-13 12:22:32 PM  
Why are there special clinics? Why can't they just be done in normal outpatient areas of hospitals?
 
2014-08-13 12:23:33 PM  
"We were actually able to look up appraisal district records," Johnson said, "and we found his new location, so we're on top of it. We know where he'll be moving."

"These abortionists are feeling the pressure," she said. "They feel like they're on the run, and that's how we want to keep it."


Christ, what an asshole.
 
2014-08-13 12:26:50 PM  

Karac: Compiling spreadsheets with license plates, make and model, description of the person, figuring out their names, stalking them through tax records and physically following them after they leave the clinic?

A 35 foot buffer zone doesn't seem too much to ask for anymore does it?


Yeah, but they aren't actually physically threatening them, their family members, or their property by gathering that information or following them, so it's all good.
 
2014-08-13 12:26:59 PM  
The Republican Party has facilitated everything the anti-choice side has done.
 
2014-08-13 12:28:11 PM  

Teknowaffle: Why are there special clinics? Why can't they just be done in normal outpatient areas of hospitals?


Why can't there be specialist clinics? We have them for everything else.
 
2014-08-13 12:28:39 PM  

Teknowaffle: Why are there special clinics? Why can't they just be done in normal outpatient areas of hospitals?


Best guess? Hospitals don't want their patients to face a throng of abortion protestors every day, including those who are there for reasons completely unrelated to getting abortions.
 
2014-08-13 12:34:17 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Teknowaffle: Why are there special clinics? Why can't they just be done in normal outpatient areas of hospitals?

Why can't there be specialist clinics? We have them for everything else.


If hospitals won't grant admitting privileges to doctors that perform legal procedures, then why do you think they would grant office space?
 
2014-08-13 12:49:28 PM  
I'll bet they're stalking the prison executioners too, being pro life and all.
 
2014-08-13 12:56:47 PM  

abb3w: dr_blasto: So, does Texas have anti-stalker law on the books?

Yes -- section 42.072.


Well, according to 42.072 it appears they may be committing 3rd degree felonies. Instead of simply making internet posts, perhaps they should be demanding their local DA press charges or something.

I'm pretty sure Texas doesn't allow felons to vote, so this could very well be the best way to get those assholes out of power.
 
2014-08-13 12:58:25 PM  

Karac: Diogenes: As a counter move, I suggest James O'Keefe pretend to be a pregnant slut and try to go get an abortion.

Now that will take some creative editing!

[i.ytimg.com image 850x478]
South Park did it.


Oh, wow!
 
2014-08-13 01:07:27 PM  

cretinbob: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 300x224]


Like I said, these God-botherers need to have an eye kept on them.

They are dangerous criminals.

And they need to get out of the Big Brother business themselves.

Trust you to get all that back-assward.
 
2014-08-13 01:22:58 PM  

dr_blasto: demanding their local DA press charges or something.


Ya, that will work.
 
2014-08-13 01:35:04 PM  

Karac: Compiling spreadsheets with license plates, make and model, description of the person, figuring out their names, stalking them through tax records and physically following them after they leave the clinic?

A 35 foot buffer zone doesn't seem too much to ask for anymore does it?


I'm trying to think of some other perfectly legal, constitutionally protected activity where this kind of threatening stalkerish behavior would be tolerated by the powers that be, and I am coming up blank.

Can you imagine if there was a similar organized effort directed at gun purchasers? The NRA would have the state legislature shut that shiat down in a New York minute.
 
2014-08-13 01:40:51 PM  

gilgigamesh: Karac: Compiling spreadsheets with license plates, make and model, description of the person, figuring out their names, stalking them through tax records and physically following them after they leave the clinic?

A 35 foot buffer zone doesn't seem too much to ask for anymore does it?

I'm trying to think of some other perfectly legal, constitutionally protected activity where this kind of threatening stalkerish behavior would be tolerated by the powers that be, and I am coming up blank.

Can you imagine if there was a similar organized effort directed at gun purchasers? The NRA would have the state legislature shut that shiat down in a New York minute.


Being a celebrity, 20 years ago but even that is now being addressed.
 
2014-08-13 01:41:38 PM  
This reminds me of how Scientologists target ex-members and critics.
 
2014-08-13 01:55:44 PM  

mrshowrules: dr_blasto: demanding their local DA press charges or something.

Ya, that will work.


Beats doing nothing. Preaching to the choir on Rawstory.com isn't going to change the behavior of the crazies.
 
2014-08-13 01:55:51 PM  

gilgigamesh: Karac: Compiling spreadsheets with license plates, make and model, description of the person, figuring out their names, stalking them through tax records and physically following them after they leave the clinic?

A 35 foot buffer zone doesn't seem too much to ask for anymore does it?

I'm trying to think of some other perfectly legal, constitutionally protected activity where this kind of threatening stalkerish behavior would be tolerated by the powers that be, and I am coming up blank.

Can you imagine if there was a similar organized effort directed at gun purchasers? The NRA would have the state legislature shut that shiat down in a New York minute.


Didn't a newspaper in New York catch some grief for publishing the names and addresses of people who owned registered handguns?

BTW, I believe this is unacceptable behavior on their part. Peaceable assembly is one thing, but this kind of thing is not peaceable assembly.
 
2014-08-13 02:00:21 PM  

Nabb1: gilgigamesh: Karac: Compiling spreadsheets with license plates, make and model, description of the person, figuring out their names, stalking them through tax records and physically following them after they leave the clinic?

A 35 foot buffer zone doesn't seem too much to ask for anymore does it?

I'm trying to think of some other perfectly legal, constitutionally protected activity where this kind of threatening stalkerish behavior would be tolerated by the powers that be, and I am coming up blank.

Can you imagine if there was a similar organized effort directed at gun purchasers? The NRA would have the state legislature shut that shiat down in a New York minute.

Didn't a newspaper in New York catch some grief for publishing the names and addresses of people who owned registered handguns?

BTW, I believe this is unacceptable behavior on their part. Peaceable assembly is one thing, but this kind of thing is not peaceable assembly.


The newspaper had an interactive online map. The firearm licenses were public information for some reason and for and equally unknown reason they thought it a good idea to create some google maps layer effect. I cannot remember the newspaper, but it was all over fark.

What I do remember was someone creating a similar map, but instead of licensed gun owners, it had employees of the paper. The paper removed their interactive map, but I also can't remember if it was due to personal pressure or because NY made the licensees' locations private or something.
 
2014-08-13 02:20:54 PM  

dr_blasto: Well, according to 42.072 it appears they may be committing 3rd degree felonies. Instead of simply making internet posts, perhaps they should be demanding their local DA press charges or something.


"Prosecutorial discretion", dude; odds are, the prosecutor is a fellow pro-life republican.

So, after this inevitably proves ineffective, they then have to remove the pro-life prosecutor, either by beating them in an election or by somehow getting some sort of federal civil rights "color of law" action to have the prosecutor jailed. (Assassination would also achieve removal, but almost certainly be counterproductive to the end goals.) The Obama administration isn't exactly going to be keen on riling up the conservatives even more than they already are; getting the local US Attorney to take action is almost as difficult.

Maybe someone could try for a civil conspiracy lawsuit, naming the prosecutor as a co-conspirator and trying for crippling financial damages? I dunno, I'm not a lawyer.
 
2014-08-13 02:25:10 PM  

dr_blasto: mrshowrules: dr_blasto: demanding their local DA press charges or something.

Ya, that will work.

Beats doing nothing. Preaching to the choir on Rawstory.com isn't going to change the behavior of the crazies.


True.  It is incumbent on people to demand it if only to document that they will do absolutely nothing about it.
 
2014-08-13 02:34:28 PM  

stpauler: Terms used in article:
Pro-Choice
anti-abortion
anti-choice
Pro-Life

This is one of the major problems of the abortion debate, the terminology, it's too binary and borderline dishonest. A person can be pro-choice AND pro-life*.In fact, I would say that almost all of the people on the pro-choice side are for life. There aren't a lot of protests outside of maternity clinics telling women to abort their fetus**. So maybe it's time to recouch the debate into more accurate terms. Like "autonomous control of female reproduction" vs "governmental control of female reproduction".


* (or if they're really sick anti-choice and anti-life which means that all babies should be killed).
** (after I typed that, I kinda wanna do it)


Pro-choice implies nothing about your personal beliefs, only that mothers(*) should be free to make their own choice.  Hence the name.  I'm not pro-abortion, but I don't feel that my beliefs in the matter outweigh your beliefs.

* (and fathers, though that does make it a lot more complicated)
 
2014-08-13 02:35:43 PM  
RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO
 
2014-08-13 02:36:03 PM  

abb3w: dr_blasto: Well, according to 42.072 it appears they may be committing 3rd degree felonies. Instead of simply making internet posts, perhaps they should be demanding their local DA press charges or something.

"Prosecutorial discretion", dude; odds are, the prosecutor is a fellow pro-life republican.

So, after this inevitably proves ineffective, they then have to remove the pro-life prosecutor, either by beating them in an election or by somehow getting some sort of federal civil rights "color of law" action to have the prosecutor jailed. (Assassination would also achieve removal, but almost certainly be counterproductive to the end goals.) The Obama administration isn't exactly going to be keen on riling up the conservatives even more than they already are; getting the local US Attorney to take action is almost as difficult.

Maybe someone could try for a civil conspiracy lawsuit, naming the prosecutor as a co-conspirator and trying for crippling financial damages? I dunno, I'm not a lawyer.


I doubt even that would work. The Texas government is not good about handling situations where they are completely captive to an industry. See John Oliver's recent treatment of the payday loan industry in the state.
 
2014-08-13 02:38:30 PM  
It's how Jesus would have done it.
 
2014-08-13 02:39:00 PM  
"You learn the street talk," and by speaking to "the poorer ones" in their own vernacular, Romano said, they were able to divert them to an anti-choice "pregnancy crisis center," where they were convinced not to abort.


"yo, yo, yo, homies...homies.. i see you goin in to get an abortion but check it, you can get mad skrilla from the gov if you keep that kid, yo, you'll be stackin cheddar like it's goin out of style, you feel me?"
 
2014-08-13 02:39:10 PM  
I'm glad finally someone released this. They are awful, scary people and no one seems to give a crap.
 
2014-08-13 02:40:17 PM  

abb3w: they then have to remove the pro-life prosecutor, either by beating them in an election or by somehow getting some sort of federal civil rights "color of law" action to have the prosecutor jailed. (Assassination would also achieve removal, but almost certainly be counterproductive to the end goals.)


Is that the only reason you can think of for not assassinating the local prosecutor?
 
2014-08-13 02:41:24 PM  
Just a reminder.

Less then two years ago there were 47 open abortion clinics in Texas.
There are now 6.
 
2014-08-13 02:41:54 PM  

SkinnyHead: abb3w: they then have to remove the pro-life prosecutor, either by beating them in an election or by somehow getting some sort of federal civil rights "color of law" action to have the prosecutor jailed. (Assassination would also achieve removal, but almost certainly be counterproductive to the end goals.)

Is that the only reason you can think of for not assassinating the local prosecutor?


I can think of one: they're not targeting the right person for assassination, which should obviously be PresiDebt BaReefer HUSSEIN Obola al-Chicago.
 
2014-08-13 02:43:37 PM  
"'Allahu ackbar,' Romano enthused."
 
2014-08-13 02:43:42 PM  
I'm waiting for the first stand your ground where a patient or provider shoots one of these wackjobs. I'm sure the 'victim' will be painted as a poor old Christian grandma instead of a psycho stalker.
 
2014-08-13 02:44:59 PM  
Stand your ground.
 
2014-08-13 02:45:32 PM  

Karac: Diogenes: As a counter move, I suggest James O'Keefe pretend to be a pregnant slut and try to go get an abortion.

Now that will take some creative editing!

[i.ytimg.com image 850x478]
South Park did it.


That game was far far better than it had any right to be. The storyline was so well crafted.
 
2014-08-13 02:45:33 PM  

Karac: Compiling spreadsheets with license plates, make and model, description of the person, figuring out their names, stalking them through tax records and physically following them after they leave the clinic?

A 35 foot buffer zone doesn't seem too much to ask for anymore does it?


Creepy?  Yes.  Illegal?  No.   Should it be illegal?  Also no.

She's only advocating plain-view stuff at the place of work in question and public records stuff like business addresses.  She very notably did  not advocate following them when they left the clinic, at least not in the sense you're implying of following them home; that would very much be stalking, and illegal.

// At least in the quoted sections.  If you're getting the 'physically following people off the property' bit from somewhere else I guess I didn't follow that link.
// Albeit, there's not a lot of ways they could use the information they're gathering that wouldn't immediately drop them into felony territory...
 
2014-08-13 02:46:06 PM  
Wasn't there an article from a week or two ago about someone doing this to the protestors?

IIRC, the guy owns a few strip malls in MD (one of which has a womens' health center), and gets harassing calls from protestors asking about his wife/kids, informing him that they know where they go to school, etc - mafia-style threats.

So he enlisted a few volunteers to "dox" the callers and return their calls (ONLY to return calls), telling them they appreciate hearing from them and that they'll pray for their wife So-and-So, and their kids at J Edgar Hoover High.

// again IIRC, sometimes the callers get 100 people calling them back
// seems to be working according to TFA, too
 
2014-08-13 02:47:49 PM  

Teknowaffle: Why are there special clinics? Why can't they just be done in normal outpatient areas of hospitals?


Jeebus.
 
2014-08-13 02:48:23 PM  

Headso: "You learn the street talk," and by speaking to "the poorer ones" in their own vernacular, Romano said, they were able to divert them to an anti-choice "pregnancy crisis center," where they were convinced not to abort.


"yo, yo, yo, homies...homies.. i see you goin in to get an abortion but check it, you can get mad skrilla from the gov if you keep that kid, yo, you'll be stackin cheddar like it's goin out of style, you feel me?"


LOL.  I read that in Ali G's voice.
 
2014-08-13 02:48:26 PM  
These are the people SCOTUS considers "sidewalk counselors".
 
2014-08-13 02:49:59 PM  
But the Supreme Court just mansplained that all these folks want to do is "have a conversation" with people on the street!

Also,
FTFA:"God is good," Romano enthused.

Allahu akbar, indeed, Talivangical.
 
2014-08-13 02:50:01 PM  
I say lets do unto the anti-abortion activist as they are doing unto others. Because that's what God wants.
 
2014-08-13 02:51:07 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Wasn't there an article from a week or two ago about someone doing this to the protestors?

IIRC, the guy owns a few strip malls in MD (one of which has a womens' health center), and gets harassing calls from protestors asking about his wife/kids, informing him that they know where they go to school, etc - mafia-style threats.

So he enlisted a few volunteers to "dox" the callers and return their calls (ONLY to return calls), telling them they appreciate hearing from them and that they'll pray for their wife So-and-So, and their kids at J Edgar Hoover High.

// again IIRC, sometimes the callers get 100 people calling them back
// seems to be working according to TFA, too


They threaten like that all the time. It's really only recently that progressive people have started to use their own tactics on them. And when they do, surprise! The assfarkers don't like it.
 
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