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(Boston.com)   Market Basket to employees: Last chance to get back to work or you will have "abandoned" your job. Workers: *crickets*   (boston.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, CEOs Felicia Thornton, James Gooch, conflict of laws  
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1962 clicks; posted to Business » on 13 Aug 2014 at 10:07 AM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-13 09:26:34 AM  
Can they do that?
 
2014-08-13 09:43:56 AM  

unlikely: Can they do that?


sure.

Will they get their ass handed to them by the AGs? Possibly
 
2014-08-13 09:44:57 AM  
Apparently it's legal for a corporate personhood to fark non-corporate personhoods without consent.
 
2014-08-13 10:17:13 AM  

somedude210: unlikely: Can they do that?

sure.

Will they get their ass handed to them by the AGs? Possibly


It's against the law to fire somebody who doesn't show up to work?
 
2014-08-13 10:19:00 AM  

MugzyBrown: somedude210: unlikely: Can they do that?

sure.

Will they get their ass handed to them by the AGs? Possibly

It's against the law to fire somebody who doesn't show up to work?


I thought that there were protections in place in the case of strikes.
 
GBB
2014-08-13 10:19:58 AM  

Running a-puck: MugzyBrown: somedude210: unlikely: Can they do that?

sure.

Will they get their ass handed to them by the AGs? Possibly

It's against the law to fire somebody who doesn't show up to work?

I thought that there were protections in place in the case of strikes.


Are they unionized?
 
2014-08-13 10:21:52 AM  

Running a-puck: MugzyBrown: somedude210: unlikely: Can they do that?

sure.

Will they get their ass handed to them by the AGs? Possibly

It's against the law to fire somebody who doesn't show up to work?

I thought that there were protections in place in the case of strikes.


I thought the workers were still showing up and protesting on their own time off?
Normally, sure, if someONE didn't show up at all, they could be fired - not sure that is the case here
 
2014-08-13 10:22:31 AM  

Running a-puck: MugzyBrown: somedude210: unlikely: Can they do that?

sure.

Will they get their ass handed to them by the AGs? Possibly

It's against the law to fire somebody who doesn't show up to work?

I thought that there were protections in place in the case of strikes.


Companies can fire striking workers. That's why you strike en masse, so that they're forced to deal with you rather than just hire new people. But it's certainly a risk of striking.
 
2014-08-13 10:22:51 AM  

GBB: Running a-puck: MugzyBrown: somedude210: unlikely: Can they do that?

sure.

Will they get their ass handed to them by the AGs? Possibly

It's against the law to fire somebody who doesn't show up to work?

I thought that there were protections in place in the case of strikes.

Are they unionized?


Not as far as I'm aware.  I also don't know if their union status matters.  For that matter, I don't even know if there are protections in place for striking workers.  I am completely speaking from ignorance in hope that someone who does know these things answers.
 
2014-08-13 10:23:30 AM  

MugzyBrown: somedude210: unlikely: Can they do that?



Yes, it's called "job abandonment". In states where I've worked (NY, CO, CA), if you no call/no show for 3 straight days, you can legally be terminated.
 
2014-08-13 10:23:51 AM  

GBB: Running a-puck: MugzyBrown: somedude210: unlikely: Can they do that?

sure.

Will they get their ass handed to them by the AGs? Possibly

It's against the law to fire somebody who doesn't show up to work?

I thought that there were protections in place in the case of strikes.

Are they unionized?


What law states one must be a part of a union to strike?
 
2014-08-13 10:24:54 AM  

vudutek: Apparently it's legal for a corporate personhood to fark non-corporate personhoods without consent.


It's a legitimate corporate rape. Their workers' bodies have ways of shutting that whole thing down.
 
2014-08-13 10:26:35 AM  
I think the real issue is that of determining if they are legally defined as being fired or if they are legally quitting their jobs.

If you quit, no unemployment for you, if they fire you then you get unemployment.
 
2014-08-13 10:33:14 AM  

ibtopher: I think the real issue is that of determining if they are legally defined as being fired or if they are legally quitting their jobs.

If you quit, no unemployment for you, if they fire you then you get unemployment.


It's not really that black and white, at least in some states.  In Massachusetts, for example, if you leave your job "with good cause (attributable to your employer)" you may be eligible.  You also might be eligible if you've had your work hours reduced (which Market Basket has been doing recently).

Now, whether striking in support of your former CEO is "good cause" is up for debate.  But it's not out of the realm of possibility.
 
GBB
2014-08-13 10:34:00 AM  

Crotchrocket Slim: GBB: Running a-puck: MugzyBrown: somedude210: unlikely: Can they do that?

sure.

Will they get their ass handed to them by the AGs? Possibly

It's against the law to fire somebody who doesn't show up to work?

I thought that there were protections in place in the case of strikes.

Are they unionized?

What law states one must be a part of a union to strike?


Don't know.  But, usually unions have strike provisions in the contract that protect striking workers from termination or other adverse actions from the employer in the event of a union sanctioned strike.
 
2014-08-13 10:35:22 AM  

ibtopher: I think the real issue is that of determining if they are legally defined as being fired or if they are legally quitting their jobs.

If you quit, no unemployment for you, if they fire you then you get unemployment.


I believe this would fall into the 'they quit' category.

That being said, if they have a bunch of new employees that don't know head cheese from a head of lettuce and still don't have any customers, I'm not sure that will help their situation any.
 
2014-08-13 10:37:27 AM  
Who will they replace them with all the people that didnt show up to their job fair? I think the MB employees figured out as long as bad Artie and the two vulture CEOs are in charge they are going to get farked over.
 
2014-08-13 10:39:33 AM  

GBB: Crotchrocket Slim: GBB: Running a-puck: MugzyBrown: somedude210: unlikely: Can they do that?

sure.

Will they get their ass handed to them by the AGs? Possibly

It's against the law to fire somebody who doesn't show up to work?

I thought that there were protections in place in the case of strikes.

Are they unionized?

What law states one must be a part of a union to strike?

Don't know.  But, usually unions have strike provisions in the contract that protect striking workers from termination or other adverse actions from the employer in the event of a union sanctioned strike.


As far as I know, no such contracts are in play. This would be an unofficial, formed in response to this situation sort of union, on a practical level as real as one that has legal registration and has been taking in dues from members for years.
 
2014-08-13 10:42:51 AM  

groppet: Who will they replace them with all the people that didnt show up to their job fair? I think the MB employees figured out as long as bad Artie and the two vulture CEOs are in charge they are going to get farked over.


They are eyeing all those children that keep crossing the border ...
 
2014-08-13 10:44:33 AM  
All I know is that almost any time of day most Market Basket parking lots were full.... Since the removal of the CEO and the push back from the employees it has been a ghost town every time i drive by.
 
2014-08-13 10:49:00 AM  

groppet: Who will they replace them with all the people that didnt show up to their job fair? I think the MB employees figured out as long as bad Artie and the two vulture CEOs are in charge they are going to get farked over.


What the current BoD may look like:
img3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-08-13 10:51:00 AM  

parasol: Running a-puck: MugzyBrown: somedude210: unlikely: Can they do that?

sure.

Will they get their ass handed to them by the AGs? Possibly

It's against the law to fire somebody who doesn't show up to work?

I thought that there were protections in place in the case of strikes.

I thought the workers were still showing up and protesting on their own time off?
Normally, sure, if someONE didn't show up at all, they could be fired - not sure that is the case here


The notes were sent to people who weren't showing up, not just the people who are working their shifts and then protesting.
 
2014-08-13 10:54:02 AM  
Well, it's a shame, but I think that the folks that work at MB headquarters and the distribution centers need to get back to work.

And then they need to show those morons in the Executive Suites what a real work slowdown looks like.  Processing an order request that usually takes 4 minutes in 4 hours ought to make the point.

The CEOs may be able to make employees return to work. That doesn't mean that they can make them perform work.  And if employees are fired after that, then MB cannot refuse to pay unemployment.  After all, their employees came back to work, and were working, just as requested.
 
2014-08-13 10:57:01 AM  

Crotchrocket Slim: GBB: Running a-puck: MugzyBrown: somedude210: unlikely: Can they do that?

sure.

Will they get their ass handed to them by the AGs? Possibly

It's against the law to fire somebody who doesn't show up to work?

I thought that there were protections in place in the case of strikes.

Are they unionized?

What law states one must be a part of a union to strike?


IIRC, the National Labor Relations Act
 
2014-08-13 10:57:47 AM  

Crotchrocket Slim: GBB: Running a-puck: MugzyBrown: somedude210: unlikely: Can they do that?

sure.

Will they get their ass handed to them by the AGs? Possibly

It's against the law to fire somebody who doesn't show up to work?

I thought that there were protections in place in the case of strikes.

Are they unionized?

What law states one must be a part of a union to strike?


He's not going with that angle, if you are in a union it's easier to strike and not get fired.  Non-union people that strike pretty much get fired.
 
2014-08-13 10:58:31 AM  
Couldn't they have at least gotten some non-failboating new CEOs?
 
2014-08-13 11:00:22 AM  
At some point the MB employees may have to depend on the customers to stay away even if stores are stocked and ready to go.

Then the BoardofDicks will have to worry about perishables spoiling again.
 
2014-08-13 11:01:39 AM  
You can fire striking workers, no problem.

The problem is calling it 'abandoning your jobs'.  By claiming 'abandonment'  it looks like Market Basket is going to try and say "they quit so we don't owe unemployment benefits'.

That is bull.  You can't declare that someone quit just because they are on strike.
 
2014-08-13 11:02:18 AM  

stpickrell: Couldn't they have at least gotten some non-failboating new CEOs?


These co-CEOs may work "cheap".

Having the former Albertson's CEO around after she crashed that company, I can see.  Having the Radio Shack arsonist around, I have no idea.
 
2014-08-13 11:04:10 AM  

wooden_badger: stpickrell: Couldn't they have at least gotten some non-failboating new CEOs?

These co-CEOs may work "cheap".

Having the former Albertson's CEO around after she crashed that company, I can see.  Having the Radio Shack arsonist around, I have no idea.


True. Albertson's failboat was at least in the same industry. Radio Shack ... they don't even have the money to properly shut down last I checked.
 
2014-08-13 11:04:10 AM  
Though I'll add that Gooch may have some relationship with Delhaize (Hannaford).
 
2014-08-13 11:11:43 AM  

tarkin1: That is bull.  You can't declare that someone quit just because they are on strike.


What else do you call a permanent strike (permanent assuming the old CEO will never be rehired)?
 
2014-08-13 11:22:44 AM  
Personally, I hope this is the Lexington and Concord of a modern labor movement in America.
 
2014-08-13 11:27:13 AM  

GoldSpider: tarkin1: That is bull.  You can't declare that someone quit just because they are on strike.

What else do you call a permanent strike (permanent assuming the old CEO will never be rehired)?


The only way the workers would know this assumption is true is if the BOD outright said that Arthur T's offers to gain majority control of the company will be unilaterally rejected. That would be an exceptionally foolish thing to say unless they're certain the other offer they got in the past week is rock-solid, and even then the company's name will still be worthless.
 
2014-08-13 11:27:13 AM  

mutterfark: Personally, I hope this is the Lexington and Concord of a modern labor movement in America.


Doubtful.  This is an incredibly unique situation, where the workers have a good thing going and are willing to fight for it, with a reasonable chance of attaining that goal.  I don't think you'd ever see something like this at a place like Wal-Mart.
 
2014-08-13 11:29:08 AM  

wooden_badger: Though I'll add that Gooch may have some relationship with Delhaize (Hannaford).


what kind or relationship?
 
2014-08-13 11:34:01 AM  

XyzzyBob: groppet: Who will they replace them with all the people that didnt show up to their job fair? I think the MB employees figured out as long as bad Artie and the two vulture CEOs are in charge they are going to get farked over.

What the current BoD may look like:
[img3.wikia.nocookie.net image 688x400]


Wrong. Those hyenas at least aren't a waste of oxygen; they provided much needed comic relief. Especially Ed
 
2014-08-13 11:42:01 AM  
markmushakian.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-08-13 11:47:59 AM  

tarkin1: You can fire striking workers, no problem.

The problem is calling it 'abandoning your jobs'.  By claiming 'abandonment'  it looks like Market Basket is going to try and say "they quit so we don't owe unemployment benefits'.

That is bull.  You can't declare that someone quit just because they are on strike.


Don't you need to belong to a recognized union for there to be a legal strike?  That is, I think Market Basket is (legally) correct here.  That doesn't change the fact that they are morally wrong, or that their business probably will go bankrupt within weeks.
 
2014-08-13 11:49:18 AM  
You work in a supermarket. Go get your job before the media forgets about you.

Either that, or use the opportunity to find something more interesting.

This battle is over. They'll hire outsiders, and within a couple of months, no one will remember or care.
 
2014-08-13 12:09:33 PM  

Geotpf: tarkin1: You can fire striking workers, no problem.

The problem is calling it 'abandoning your jobs'.  By claiming 'abandonment'  it looks like Market Basket is going to try and say "they quit so we don't owe unemployment benefits'.

That is bull.  You can't declare that someone quit just because they are on strike.

Don't you need to belong to a recognized union for there to be a legal strike?  That is, I think Market Basket is (legally) correct here.  That doesn't change the fact that they are morally wrong, or that their business probably will go bankrupt within weeks.


Add in that replacing the CEO would most likely not be classified as an unfair business practice, thereby protecting workers
 
2014-08-13 12:10:46 PM  

somedude210: wooden_badger: Though I'll add that Gooch may have some relationship with Delhaize (Hannaford).

what kind or relationship?


When Gooch was CFO of RS he worked under Claire Babrowski who was CEO.  She now serves on the BoD of Delhaize.
 
2014-08-13 12:11:30 PM  

rugman11: ibtopher: I think the real issue is that of determining if they are legally defined as being fired or if they are legally quitting their jobs.

If you quit, no unemployment for you, if they fire you then you get unemployment.

It's not really that black and white, at least in some states.  In Massachusetts, for example, if you leave your job "with good cause (attributable to your employer)" you may be eligible.  You also might be eligible if you've had your work hours reduced (which Market Basket has been doing recently).

Now, whether striking in support of your former CEO is "good cause" is up for debate.  But it's not out of the realm of possibility.


I don't see a decent constructive dismissal case (assuming the states involved have such a law).

Simply hiring a new CEO will not trigger such a case. Constructive dismissal usually requires a fundamental change in the employee's job. If benefits are cut that is likely a trigger but speculation as to what the new CEO will do is not.
 
2014-08-13 12:15:01 PM  

AteMyBrain: You work in a supermarket. Go get your job before the media forgets about you.

Either that, or use the opportunity to find something more interesting.

This battle is over. They'll hire outsiders, and within a couple of months, no one will remember or care.


What outsiders will work there? Or who could they hire at this point that would keep customers returning?
 
2014-08-13 12:18:20 PM  

MintyBurns: AteMyBrain: You work in a supermarket. Go get your job before the media forgets about you.

Either that, or use the opportunity to find something more interesting.

This battle is over. They'll hire outsiders, and within a couple of months, no one will remember or care.

What outsiders will work there? Or who could they hire at this point that would keep customers returning?


Absolutely no one, as evidenced by their abysmal job fair.
 
2014-08-13 12:29:22 PM  

GBB: Crotchrocket Slim: GBB: Running a-puck: MugzyBrown: somedude210: unlikely: Can they do that?

sure.

Will they get their ass handed to them by the AGs? Possibly

It's against the law to fire somebody who doesn't show up to work?

I thought that there were protections in place in the case of strikes.

Are they unionized?

What law states one must be a part of a union to strike?

Don't know.  But, usually unions have strike provisions in the contract that protect striking workers from termination or other adverse actions from the employer in the event of a union sanctioned strike.


Normally, the union is only allowed to strike upon completion of a contract when the two sides fail to reach an agreement.  This (if they even have the protection of a union) would be considered to be a "wildcat" strike, which is always prohibited in the CAB and is also illegal...

So, they can be all fired if it is considered to be a wildcat strike and there is not a damn thing they can do about it.
 
2014-08-13 12:42:43 PM  

stpickrell: wooden_badger: stpickrell: Couldn't they have at least gotten some non-failboating new CEOs?

These co-CEOs may work "cheap".

Having the former Albertson's CEO around after she crashed that company, I can see.  Having the Radio Shack arsonist around, I have no idea.

True. Albertson's failboat was at least in the same industry. Radio Shack ... they don't even have the money to properly shut down last I checked.


Did the 'right' people get to cash out first? There's your answer.
 
2014-08-13 12:43:16 PM  
If they live in a right to work state, they can be fired for any reason or no reason at all.

They could still draw unemployment unless they were fired for misconduct of some kind.

The only thing this action affects is the status of their unemployment : fired or quit.
 
2014-08-13 12:47:18 PM  

dywed88: rugman11: ibtopher: I think the real issue is that of determining if they are legally defined as being fired or if they are legally quitting their jobs.

If you quit, no unemployment for you, if they fire you then you get unemployment.

It's not really that black and white, at least in some states.  In Massachusetts, for example, if you leave your job "with good cause (attributable to your employer)" you may be eligible.  You also might be eligible if you've had your work hours reduced (which Market Basket has been doing recently).

Now, whether striking in support of your former CEO is "good cause" is up for debate.  But it's not out of the realm of possibility.

I don't see a decent constructive dismissal case (assuming the states involved have such a law).

Simply hiring a new CEO will not trigger such a case. Constructive dismissal usually requires a fundamental change in the employee's job. If benefits are cut that is likely a trigger but speculation as to what the new CEO will do is not.


Oh, yeah, I don't think it's a good case, especially since the new management hasn't actually done anything negative yet.  I was just clarifying that it's not so simple a dichotomy as fired:unemployment benefits, quite:no unemployment benefits.
 
2014-08-13 12:47:53 PM  

Bob Falfa: MugzyBrown: somedude210: unlikely: Can they do that?


Yes, it's called "job abandonment". In states where I've worked (NY, CO, CA), if you no call/no show for 3 straight days, you can legally be terminated.


Washington DC as well.

When I was a manager, I had an otherwise good employee not show up for work without warning for an
entire week without calling in or responding to phone messages or emails.  It turned out she had a
pressing family situation out of state and was sufficiently spooked (and young, fresh out of college) that
she completely lost track of everything else.

When she came back, I had to give her a written reprimand, purely as a matter of policy for potential
abandonment.  If she had called I'd have made it work without any disciplinary action.

The MB-tards, though, are just being 'tards.
 
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