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(The Atlantic)   The Atlantic looks at what would happen if someone in America contracted Ebola and didn't know about it, failing to realize Dustin Hoffman and Rene Russo covered this in Outbreak   (theatlantic.com) divider line 45
    More: Scary, Ebola, isolation units, virus  
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4139 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Aug 2014 at 11:53 AM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



45 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-08-13 11:07:09 AM  
Well, that article's not going to cause even more people to flip out for no reason.
 
2014-08-13 11:48:04 AM  
FTA:

You remember that you recently butchered a West African fruit bat, for some reason.

Man, it's almost like someone at the Atlantic knows me.
 
2014-08-13 11:55:32 AM  
Just like in that [Al Pacino] movie!
 
2014-08-13 11:55:42 AM  
I loved how the miracle vaccine in "Outbreak" not only cured the disease, but reversed the significant tissue damage that had already taken place.
 
2014-08-13 12:02:12 PM  
So what, it's not like we are a nation of biters, spitters, and shiatters.
 
2014-08-13 12:02:38 PM  
Stolen from Facebook (something like this at least):

On Ebola
Scientist: "Relax, there is nothing to worry about"
Everybody: "PANIC!"

On Global Warning
Scientists: "We need to act now, people should be panicking"
Everybody: "Lol, feed me more coal"
 
2014-08-13 12:05:49 PM  
Yeah, and we've already had a couple of cases of Hanta this year, On the Navajo nation, but no one bats an eye. Perspective, people!
 
2014-08-13 12:08:14 PM  

docmattic: I loved how the miracle vaccine in "Outbreak" not only cured the disease, but reversed the significant tissue damage that had already taken place.


Or the fact that it mutated and became airborne, but only the air inside the hospital
 
2014-08-13 12:09:45 PM  
It isn't very contagious. Hell, it's not even airborne.
 
2014-08-13 12:15:33 PM  
I'm not saying we should panic, but I'm calling B.S. on the article. The vast majority of hospitals not located in a major metropolitan area are not going to have their own "ambulance bay for contagious patients" nor "Glass walled pressurized rooms". I have no doubt Boston does have these things, so hopefully if someone is infected overseas, they will land and be sick there. Also, there is a long incubation period, so people are spreading it prior to "I'm so sick, I better call an ambulance".
 
2014-08-13 12:26:01 PM  

Nattering Nabob: I'm not saying we should panic, but I'm calling B.S. on the article. The vast majority of hospitals not located in a major metropolitan area are not going to have their own "ambulance bay for contagious patients" nor "Glass walled pressurized rooms". I have no doubt Boston does have these things, so hopefully if someone is infected overseas, they will land and be sick there. Also, there is a long incubation period, so people are spreading it prior to "I'm so sick, I better call an ambulance".



Beat me to it.

Most community hospitals and City hospitals do not have a special entrance.  If you are lucky they have an inflatable room to be placed outside for Decontamination of biohazards or Haz-mat.  I don't know about other Medics but I have received no training on how to recognize Ebola vs. any other virus and my ambulance is not equipped with the necessary equipment for it.
 
2014-08-13 12:28:53 PM  
 
2014-08-13 12:31:43 PM  

Russ1642: It isn't very contagious. Hell, it's not even airborne.


The CDC and WHO both classify Ebola as extremely infectious.

Is your idea of Ebola not very contagious because they haven't classified it as triple-extremely-double-dog-contagious?

Also, it's airborne.

Canadian Government scientists declared (and proved) that Ebola-Zaire (The current strain) can be aerosolized (such as in sneezing) and infect someone through their lungs.

/It doesn't last nearly as long in the air as the flu. And it burns out it's victims too quick to spread as fast as the flu........ so, you're kinda right.
 
2014-08-13 12:31:49 PM  
So, can I still dock my transport ship in Madagascar?
 
2014-08-13 12:31:51 PM  

p the boiler: Stolen from Facebook (something like this at least):

On Ebola
Scientist: "Relax, there is nothing to worry about"
Everybody: "PANIC!"

On Global Warning
Scientists: "We need to act now, people should be panicking"
Everybody: "Lol, feed me more coal"


The reasoning goes something like this:
Well, the ground beneath my feet is not flaming, so global warming must not be real.  People are dying, halfway around the world, so I must panic.
 
2014-08-13 12:32:16 PM  

Nattering Nabob: I'm not saying we should panic, but I'm calling B.S. on the article. The vast majority of hospitals not located in a major metropolitan area are not going to have their own "ambulance bay for contagious patients" nor "Glass walled pressurized rooms". I have no doubt Boston does have these things, so hopefully if someone is infected overseas, they will land and be sick there. Also, there is a long incubation period, so people are spreading it prior to "I'm so sick, I better call an ambulance".


For some reason I thought I heard that it wasn't contagious until a person was full-on symptomatic. But I probably misheard, or misinterpreted, or missed something.
 
2014-08-13 12:46:20 PM  
This is all so very stupid.  The reason it is such a problem in Africa is a lack of health infrastructure.  When was the last time you saw a hospital or doctor's office in the developed world that doesn't have running water and latex gloves.  Or bleach for that matter.  This is not a threat to the  US or any other developed country.

For fark's sake, more people will die of malaria TODAY than have died of Ebola in the last 10 years.
 
2014-08-13 12:48:23 PM  

Mudd's woman: Nattering Nabob: I'm not saying we should panic, but I'm calling B.S. on the article. The vast majority of hospitals not located in a major metropolitan area are not going to have their own "ambulance bay for contagious patients" nor "Glass walled pressurized rooms". I have no doubt Boston does have these things, so hopefully if someone is infected overseas, they will land and be sick there. Also, there is a long incubation period, so people are spreading it prior to "I'm so sick, I better call an ambulance".

For some reason I thought I heard that it wasn't contagious until a person was full-on symptomatic. But I probably misheard, or misinterpreted, or missed something.


The most current information suggests that it may be contagious up to 3 days before symptoms present themselves.
 
2014-08-13 12:52:58 PM  
On the case.

oyster.ignimgs.com
 
2014-08-13 12:54:02 PM  

Running a-puck: This is all so very stupid.  The reason it is such a problem in Africa is a lack of health infrastructure.  When was the last time you saw a hospital or doctor's office in the developed world that doesn't have running water and latex gloves.  Or bleach for that matter.  This is not a threat to the  US or any other developed country.

For fark's sake, more people will die of malaria TODAY than have died of Ebola in the last 10 years.


You are missing the point. Death by Ebola is scarier. It is currently running amuck, and involves bleeding out of your eyes.

/Your overall point is correct though....... Even if Ebola gets into the US (Not too unlikely), it has little chance of doing drastic harm.

//BUT, it WILL panic people and make living in 2015 interesting if it gets here.
 
2014-08-13 01:31:40 PM  
not a bad movie, but it was crazy when sam jackson got eated by dat shark.
 
2014-08-13 01:36:43 PM  

Sammichless: Russ1642: It isn't very contagious. Hell, it's not even airborne.

The CDC and WHO both classify Ebola as extremely infectious.

Is your idea of Ebola not very contagious because they haven't classified it as triple-extremely-double-dog-contagious?

Also, it's airborne.

Canadian Government scientists declared (and proved) that Ebola-Zaire (The current strain) can be aerosolized (such as in sneezing) and infect someone through their lungs.

/It doesn't last nearly as long in the air as the flu. And it burns out it's victims too quick to spread as fast as the flu........ so, you're kinda right.


It's just not bad enough to cause the pandemic the fearmongers would have us believe. Even in Africa, where it's far more likely to spread, it hasn't been as bad.
 
2014-08-13 01:45:21 PM  
Difficulty: if you spew blood on a healthcare worker they will think you're an alcoholic/have advanced cirrhosis and will be calling for an interventional gastroenterologist to band your varices ASAP (since you asked, when your liver turns into a fibrotic lump of useless the veins around your liver bloat up like varicose veins causing back pressure into connecting veins, one set of these runs from liver to stomach to connect with a set from your esophagus, these like to burst and bleed like mad into your stomach --> blood in the stomach is irritating --> causing you to vomit). [[Actually Ebola would probably cause pinkish/streaky vomit, which would look like a bleeding ulcer, you'd get admitted to the general floor]]

Normally Ebola is not at the top of the differential. Maybe if you have travel history + temp + diarrhea + petechiae (see pic), but most likely would not be immediately diagnosed.

The guy who flew to Nigeria got treated for Malaria first.

forensics4fiction.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-08-13 01:46:54 PM  
I'm only going to worry when I start dreaming of this guy

thenerderypublic.com
 
2014-08-13 01:53:02 PM  

Running a-puck: This is all so very stupid.  The reason it is such a problem in Africa is a lack of health infrastructure.  When was the last time you saw a hospital or doctor's office in the developed world that doesn't have running water and latex gloves.  Or bleach for that matter.  This is not a threat to the  US or any other developed country.

For fark's sake, more people will die of malaria TODAY than have died of Ebola in the last 10 years.


I think it could infect some healthcare workers and family members of the patient before it was contained, but our public health service and ability of people to adhere to quarantine would contain it relatively fast. The problem in Africa is that many of them are superstitious and stubborn and think it's some kind of conspiracy and they flaunt the quarantine, e.g. breaking family members out of the hospital, still eating bushmeat. Also health care workers are getting it left and right. :/
 
2014-08-13 01:56:51 PM  

Russ1642: Sammichless: Russ1642: It isn't very contagious. Hell, it's not even airborne.

The CDC and WHO both classify Ebola as extremely infectious.

Is your idea of Ebola not very contagious because they haven't classified it as triple-extremely-double-dog-contagious?

Also, it's airborne.

Canadian Government scientists declared (and proved) that Ebola-Zaire (The current strain) can be aerosolized (such as in sneezing) and infect someone through their lungs.

/It doesn't last nearly as long in the air as the flu. And it burns out it's victims too quick to spread as fast as the flu........ so, you're kinda right.

It's just not bad enough to cause the pandemic the fearmongers would have us believe. Even in Africa, where it's far more likely to spread, it hasn't been as bad.


So, you're smart enough to not be afraid of Ebola.

Do you think the rest of the nation is?
 
2014-08-13 02:13:03 PM  

neversubmit: So what, it's not like we are a nation of biters, spitters, and shiatters.


Biters
geek-news.mtv.com

spitters
nikki97.files.wordpress.com

and shiatters

www.entermygame.com

/Seriously, that last one will shiat all over you if you get behind it.
 
2014-08-13 02:48:44 PM  

What would happen if somebody in America caught Ebola


1. 24/7 coverage on CNN. Tick that box.
2. Fox News blames Obama for the plague. Ditto.
3.  It depends. Does this story involved a pretty white girl?
4. The national IQ would drop by 35 points, leaving some people dumber and Sarah Palin unable to bark because it requires a minimum IQ of 25.
5. There'd suddenly be massive interest in tropical disease research, prevention and cures.
6. Somebody, somewhere would write a well-informed, thoughtful article. Which would never see the light of day.
7. Fox and Friends would blame Guatemalan children and call for them to be shot on sight.
8.  Ann Coulter would swallow a tapir and go to sleep for three months until the crisis is over. Then she would say that liberal men have small dicks.
9.  Sarah Palin would go back to Alaska and the nation would heave a sigh of relief.
10. Somebody would claim that Ebola is God's Judgement on Liberals, Atheists, Jews, non-whites, non- Christians, gays, Michelle Obama's campaign to encourage healthier diets for children, and anybody else who sticks in their craw. Then the rest of the right wing would ape them for months.
11. Cuba would offer advice and assistance on locking the sick and the stupid in quarantine the way they locked up gays with AIDS.
12. Conservatives would applaud all of the above and sit in lawnchairs on their lawns  with shotguns across their knees hoping against hope to see a "Zombie" to shoot.
 
2014-08-13 03:17:46 PM  

brantgoose: What would happen if somebody in America caught Ebola
1. 24/7 coverage on CNN. Tick that box.
2. Fox News blames Obama for the plague. Ditto.
3.  It depends. Does this story involved a pretty white girl?
4. The national IQ would drop by 35 points, leaving some people dumber and Sarah Palin unable to bark because it requires a minimum IQ of 25.
5. There'd suddenly be massive interest in tropical disease research, prevention and cures.
6. Somebody, somewhere would write a well-informed, thoughtful article. Which would never see the light of day.
7. Fox and Friends would blame Guatemalan children and call for them to be shot on sight.
8.  Ann Coulter would swallow a tapir and go to sleep for three months until the crisis is over. Then she would say that liberal men have small dicks.
9.  Sarah Palin would go back to Alaska and the nation would heave a sigh of relief.
10. Somebody would claim that Ebola is God's Judgement on Liberals, Atheists, Jews, non-whites, non- Christians, gays, Michelle Obama's campaign to encourage healthier diets for children, and anybody else who sticks in their craw. Then the rest of the right wing would ape them for months.
11. Cuba would offer advice and assistance on locking the sick and the stupid in quarantine the way they locked up gays with AIDS.
12. Conservatives would applaud all of the above and sit in lawnchairs on their lawns  with shotguns across their knees hoping against hope to see a "Zombie" to shoot.


Politics tab is --------------------------------------->
 
2014-08-13 04:00:20 PM  

Nattering Nabob: I'm not saying we should panic, but I'm calling B.S. on the article. The vast majority of hospitals not located in a major metropolitan area are not going to have their own "ambulance bay for contagious patients" nor "Glass walled pressurized rooms".


Neither of those things are necessary. All you really need is good sanitation protocols and supplies.


Also, there is a long incubation period, so people are spreading it prior to "I'm so sick, I better call an ambulance".

Ebola is not contagious while the person is not showing symptoms.
=Smidge=
 
2014-08-13 04:03:53 PM  
Why does the media keep telling everyone Ebola has never been in the US before.  Did everyone forget about the Reston strain of Ebola?  Sure, it didn't affect humans but it certainly infected them...
 
2014-08-13 04:52:21 PM  

toraque: FTA:

You remember that you recently butchered a West African fruit bat, for some reason.

Man, it's almost like someone at the Atlantic knows me.


I butchered "The lion sleeps tonight" at karaoke, does that count?
 
2014-08-13 05:17:45 PM  
FTA: There are airport workers whose job it is to identify passengers who have flu-like symptoms and quarantine them immediately.

Is that even true? One time I was flying stateside from Puerto Rico and I had some mean bronchitis or walking pneumonia or something. I was feverish, coughing and very wobbly. (At least I'd gotten over the puking by then.) Not one person at the airport batted an eye. It was a few years ago and maybe they've changed procedures since then, but it could have been something really contagious.
 
2014-08-13 05:20:41 PM  
Wow.  So much bad info here.

Ebola is definitely contagious before there are frank symptoms.  The virus has an incredibly small infective dose (the number of particles that are needed to infect a person), and has been demonstrated to be transmissible through the alveolar membrane (the lungs).  Once it is in your cell, it starts replicating like crazy until the cell basically collapses, spilling massive amounts of virus.  This goes on and starts infecting other cells.  These cells tend to be epithelial cells that line blood vessels (this starts the hemorrhagic process that Ebola is known for).  It also means that the kidneys get involved pretty quickly (allowing the virus to be shed), and that the virus is present pretty quickly in a variety of fluids throughout the body (saliva, tears, semen, etc).  The virus is present before overt symptoms are recognizable, but there is some question as to whether the virus is being shed before a fever is present.

Antibiotics are useless.  I'm not sure why the article even mentions them in the same article as a devastating viral syndrome.

I'm not sure how a highly trained paramedic (I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.  I was very heavily trained in recognizing select agents, and I'd miss an early Ebola presentation) is going to determine a possible Ebola patient that is presenting with flu-like symptoms.  Once the patient tips over into hemorrhagic symptoms, yeah, I'll grant you, they should figure out that something is up.  Some of the patients that present demonstrate bloody vomitus very early.  That combined with fever might make me think about it, but I'd be leaning towards a chronic alcoholic that is detoxing (They can get pretty feverish too).  We see MANY more of those than hemorrhagic fever patients (horses versus zebras, people).
There is a TON of conflicting evidence regarding the droplet/direct contact/aerosol transmission.  Folks that say that this bug only moves through direct contact are just flat out wrong.  Sorry, we know that this can move through droplet transmission.  Looking at the case reports and the laboratory evidence, I really think this thing can move through an aerosol, in specific circumstances, outside of the lab.  The Reston outbreak really seemed to verify this, and the workers that did pop positive for ebola don't recall any contact with infective material.

The article is crap, and overly generous.  I worked an ebola scare patient at a busy level one trauma center.  The patient was sent to the non-emergent side complaining of a fever after getting off an international flight (That's what was in the chart).  I walked in and saw that he was weeping blood, and almost emptied my bowels into my shorts.  This guy had sat in the waiting room for over an hour, he was seated in a curtained off "room", and there were hundreds of potential exposures in the last 90 minutes.  We got him in an isolation room (The only one of 4 that worked, the others had inadequate airflow to actually provide real isolation), and drew tons of blood.
I went home that night.  We got negative ebola results back more than 48 hours later.
The guy had Dengue Hemorrhagic Fever, but let's take a look at how the system worked to catch it...  Essentially, it didn't until we had hundreds of potential exposures.  Quarantine of the possibly exposed staff... didn't happen.  (We did bleach the bejeesus out of everything)

Let's look at this in a sunshiney manner.  Let's say we're completely wrong about the lethality of ebola in a modern healthcare environment.  Let's call it 25% fatality rate.  Hell, let's call it 5% (less than 1/10th the fatality rate we are currently observing).   This puts it at just over more lethal than the 1918 flu pandemic.  We'd better hope it kills really quickly, because that's the only thing that will save us.  The nation essentially shut down.  Essential services stopped.  Freedom of movement was dramatically curtailed.  If anything, we're less capable of independent care now.  Our society depends on the delivery of essential services to a degree unimagined in 1918.  A city hit with this bug is essentially shut down.
 
2014-08-13 05:49:59 PM  

Needlessly Complicated: FTA: There are airport workers whose job it is to identify passengers who have flu-like symptoms and quarantine them immediately.

Is that even true?


No.
 
2014-08-13 06:02:18 PM  
Static_Det5:   It also means that the kidneys get involved pretty quickly (allowing the virus to be shed), and that the virus is present pretty quickly in a variety of fluids throughout the body (saliva, tears, semen, etc).

Oh, that explains how it's being transmitted so fast. People definitely squat everywhere in Africa. If you pull over to the side of the road there is human poo everywhere. They definitely pee liberally everywhere in town (virtually no public bathrooms).

There is a TON of conflicting evidence regarding the droplet/direct contact/aerosol transmission.  Folks that say that this bug only moves through direct contact are just flat out wrong.  Sorry, we know that this can move through droplet transmission.  Looking at the case reports and the laboratory evidence, I really think this thing can move through an aerosol, in specific circumstances, outside of the lab.  The Reston outbreak really seemed to verify this, and the workers that did pop positive for ebola don't recall any contact with infective material.

 I'm not usually a fan of conspiracy theories, but I think the CDC keeps pushing this line because they don't want the doctors and nurses dealing with the Ebola patients to say "Fark this, I am not going in that tent without my own air supply and bubble suit if this shiat is aerosol". That one guy who flew to Nigeria infected about 5 healthcare workers, including one lab worker. On the other hand, CDC director said in past epidemics when the health care workers got used to following the strict precautions their infection rates started going down. I wonder if they're having to re-use gowns and gloves.

We got negative ebola results back more than 48 hours later.

Did they assign dedicated staff/equipment to this one patient?
 
2014-08-13 06:21:44 PM  

Pull the Plug on Grannie: Static_Det5:   It also means that the kidneys get involved pretty quickly (allowing the virus to be shed), and that the virus is present pretty quickly in a variety of fluids throughout the body (saliva, tears, semen, etc).

Oh, that explains how it's being transmitted so fast. People definitely squat everywhere in Africa. If you pull over to the side of the road there is human poo everywhere. They definitely pee liberally everywhere in town (virtually no public bathrooms).

There is a TON of conflicting evidence regarding the droplet/direct contact/aerosol transmission.  Folks that say that this bug only moves through direct contact are just flat out wrong.  Sorry, we know that this can move through droplet transmission.  Looking at the case reports and the laboratory evidence, I really think this thing can move through an aerosol, in specific circumstances, outside of the lab.  The Reston outbreak really seemed to verify this, and the workers that did pop positive for ebola don't recall any contact with infective material.

 I'm not usually a fan of conspiracy theories, but I think the CDC keeps pushing this line because they don't want the doctors and nurses dealing with the Ebola patients to say "Fark this, I am not going in that tent without my own air supply and bubble suit if this shiat is aerosol". That one guy who flew to Nigeria infected about 5 healthcare workers, including one lab worker. On the other hand, CDC director said in past epidemics when the health care workers got used to following the strict precautions their infection rates started going down. I wonder if they're having to re-use gowns and gloves.

We got negative ebola results back more than 48 hours later.

Did they assign dedicated staff/equipment to this one patient?


He was an isolation patient.  While he didn't have dedicated staff (It's an urban trauma center, we don't have that kind of manpower, despite what Hollywood or commonsense would have you believe), he did have dedicated equipment.  However, he did have to have a chest x-ray (Portable), and multiple lab tests.  Forget the mandated "plastic vial".  The article was wrong about that.  Our culture tubes are all glass, and we don't have special "Ebola Vials".  Even if we did, plastic tubes can break as well.

I'm definitely not going to go all conspiracy theory on the CDC.  The amount of horror that would happen if a healthcare worker popped positive for one of these bugs, after following guidelines, FAR outweighs the horror by knowing the facts ahead of time.  We know that these bugs are scary, and that if we screw around we can get sick (or worse).  Despite that, time and time again, you'll see us tackling crazy patients that we know have hepatitis, HIV, or resistant bugs.  The US healthcare provider (in my experience) is incredibly dedicated to their job.  Sure, you're going to have a couple of folks refuse to work, but I don't think you'll see them leaving in droves like we have overseas.
However, if we found out that the CDC has lied to us...  I can see bad things happening.
The problem here is the conflicting information that is out there.  Ebola is a select agent.  We have to be REALLY careful about the research that we do on it.  Testing to see if aerosolized Ebola is infective sounds an awful lot like a weaponization study.  You don't do that.
I think this results in a breakdown when it comes to the discussion of evidence-based risk-management (Not my term).  We don't have (published, peer-reviewed) evidence of aerosolized ebola transmission.  However, we have some pretty decent anecdotal evidence that would suggest that healthcare worker proceed with extreme caution.

Would I care for an ebola patient?  Absolutely, without reservation (provided I had the right equipment).  I've also trained pretty heavily to do it.  I can easily see why others would be initially reluctant.  If you haven't worked in an isolation suit/garment, it takes some getting used to, and it is intimidating.
 
2014-08-13 06:45:18 PM  
Static_Det5:I'm definitely not going to go all conspiracy theory on the CDC.  The amount of horror that would happen if a healthcare worker popped positive for one of these bugs, after following guidelines, FAR outweighs the horror by knowing the facts ahead of time.  We know that these bugs are scary, and that if we screw around we can get sick (or worse).  Despite that, time and time again, you'll see us tackling crazy patients that we know have hepatitis, HIV, or resistant bugs.  The US healthcare provider (in my experience) is incredibly dedicated to their job.  Sure, you're going to have a couple of folks refuse to work, but I don't think you'll see them leaving in droves like we have overseas.
However, if we found out that the CDC has lied to us...  I can see bad things happening.


No, we (sortof) do it right here. I'm talking about in Africa. About 1/10 of the dead are healthcare workers there. That one guy in Nigeria infected 5 healthcare workers. That does not sound like direct contact to me unless he was smearing poo everywhere.

To date, more than 170 health-care workers have been infected and at least 81 have died.  http://www.who.int/csr/disease/ebola/overview-august-2014/en/

Testing to see if aerosolized Ebola is infective sounds an awful lot like a weaponization study.  You don't do that.
I think this results in a breakdown when it comes to the discussion of evidence-based risk-management (Not my term).  We don't have (published, peer-reviewed) evidence of aerosolized ebola transmission.  However, we have some pretty decent anecdotal evidence that would suggest that healthcare worker proceed with extreme caution.


They already did a study where it jumped from pigs to monkeys without contact in the lab. It's linked in the wikipedia article on Ebola, too lazy to pull it up.
 
2014-08-13 07:02:52 PM  
The problem overseas is the lack of readily available supplies.  To be honest, 90% of the time you'll get away with being lax in this area.  Reuse your gloves, or even wash them occasionally.  Keep the same mask all day, no big deal.  No eye protection... that's ok.

All of this changes with ebola.  It's a seriously infective bug.  We don't know how infective it is in the wild because we can't control doses in the wild.  In the lab, you get a viral particle into a monkey kidney cell, and you've got massive amplification.  We honestly don't know how that translates into the real world (I haven't seen a study that looked at alveolar cells, that would probably scare the crap outta me), because the real world isn't a lab and vice versa.

We do know that animals and people have been infected without any apparent contact between patients.  We KNOW this.  We can't explain it, so some people label it as "unknown", or "unproven".  Even if you take it that these patients did have some level of contact with infected material (it wasn't aerosolized), it means that they had contact with an incredibly trivial amount of infected material.  That, alone, should make you respect this bug.

In modern healthcare, we operate with a certain minimum amount of protection in our day to day practice.  Frequently, overseas, I see people administering care without the benefit of gloves.  Why?  Because they don't have them.  That simple.  You see enough sick people around you, you want to help out.  That's what happens here.  That first ebola patient rolls in, and people don't understand how dangerous it is.  Perhaps they don't even know what is going on.  In some of these wards, they don't have light.  Candlelight may be all that they have.  You can easily miss a small amount of bleeding from a patient in those circumstances.  Imagine that your patient has a cough (some days it seems like all patients have a cough), and you're working in the dark with them.  By the time the morning comes around and you see bloody flecks on their face, on the linen, it's way too late.
 
2014-08-13 11:08:01 PM  
I'm not particularly worried by Ebola, but this article is craptacular.  "There are airport workers whose job it is...to identify flu-like symptoms and quarantine people".

Yeah, there are also airport workers whose job it is to check luggage, and instead they've been caught stealing shiat...not exactly filling me with confidence, here.

Let's hope the virus guys are at least in the top tier of the TSA.
 
2014-08-13 11:12:00 PM  

Pull the Plug on Grannie: Needlessly Complicated: FTA: There are airport workers whose job it is to identify passengers who have flu-like symptoms and quarantine them immediately.

Is that even true?

No.


Seriously?  Lol...I had some Farker a couple days ago giving me shiat for doubting that the average airline employee would ground and quarantine an entire flight because someone was running a fever...

"But it's a federal law, they have to" he said.

Yeah, and we have federal prisons chock full of people who broke federal laws...
 
2014-08-13 11:25:58 PM  

Pull the Plug on Grannie: Needlessly Complicated: FTA: There are airport workers whose job it is to identify passengers who have flu-like symptoms and quarantine them immediately.

Is that even true?

No.


Certainly not everywhere; maybe not in the US at all, but I'm reasonably certain I remember from a 2010 trip to China that the Beijing airport had some thermal scanner setup in the arrivals hall and some dedicated people observing for people with fevers.
 
2014-08-14 02:54:46 AM  

brantgoose: What would happen if somebody in America caught Ebola
1. 24/7 coverage on CNN. Tick that box.
2. Fox News blames Obama for the plague. Ditto.
3.  It depends. Does this story involved a pretty white girl?
4. The national IQ would drop by 35 points, leaving some people dumber and Sarah Palin unable to bark because it requires a minimum IQ of 25.
5. There'd suddenly be massive interest in tropical disease research, prevention and cures.
6. Somebody, somewhere would write a well-informed, thoughtful article. Which would never see the light of day.
7. Fox and Friends would blame Guatemalan children and call for them to be shot on sight.
8.  Ann Coulter would swallow a tapir and go to sleep for three months until the crisis is over. Then she would say that liberal men have small dicks.
9.  Sarah Palin would go back to Alaska and the nation would heave a sigh of relief.
10. Somebody would claim that Ebola is God's Judgement on Liberals, Atheists, Jews, non-whites, non- Christians, gays, Michelle Obama's campaign to encourage healthier diets for children, and anybody else who sticks in their craw. Then the rest of the right wing would ape them for months.
11. Cuba would offer advice and assistance on locking the sick and the stupid in quarantine the way they locked up gays with AIDS.
12. Conservatives would applaud all of the above and sit in lawnchairs on their lawns  with shotguns across their knees hoping against hope to see a "Zombie" to shoot.


What the fark is wrong with you?
 
2014-08-14 05:19:02 AM  

Static_Det5: There is a TON of conflicting evidence regarding the droplet/direct contact/aerosol transmission.

 
Then why don't you provide some? Only thing I've managed to find were two studies, one of which intentionally infected lung tissue cultures, another deliberately distributed to simulate a weaponized version of the virus. If there's a "TON" of evidence it's pretty well hidden.


Difficulty: Blog posts don't count as "evidence."
=Smidge=
 
2014-08-14 10:26:16 AM  

Smidge204: Static_Det5: There is a TON of conflicting evidence regarding the droplet/direct contact/aerosol transmission.
 
Then why don't you provide some? Only thing I've managed to find were two studies, one of which intentionally infected lung tissue cultures, another deliberately distributed to simulate a weaponized version of the virus. If there's a "TON" of evidence it's pretty well hidden.


Difficulty: Blog posts don't count as "evidence."
=Smidge=


Oh man...  Sorry.  I didn't mean to step on your toes there.  Let me Google that for you: (If these are paywalled, I can't help too much).
http://healthmap.org/site/diseasedaily/article/pigs-monkeys-ebola-go es -airborne-112112
Difficulty:  Peer Reviewed, but Disease and Policy may upset the pure scientist.
http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/196/Supplement_2/S142.full
This made it into a couple of journals.  These guys are saying that in a modern infection control ward, the risk of transmission is low.
http://ebola.emedtv.com/ebola/transmission-of-ebola.html
Not really a blog (I know how you're opposed to those primary source thingies).  The first paragraph discusses the Reston outbreak, but seems to skip over the infected workers that never entered the animal facility.

National Library of Medicine...  Again, let me "Google" this for you:
http://ebola.emedtv.com/ebola/transmission-of-ebola.html
Three different strains of primate challenged with an aerosol, all three showed virus in their systems.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7547435
I hadn't seen this one before.  If you want to see good ebola research, Nancy Jaax and Pete Jahrling are good names to follow.  Here we have an incredibly small dose (400 plaque forming units), in an aerosol (1.2-0.8 microns), infecting primates.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8551825
Again, a Jaax and Jahrling study.  They really make a good case for non-contact transmission.

Hey, look, no blog sites!

I'll grant you, most, if not all of these studies are limited in their low enrollment numbers.  However, they do set out to prove what they were looking for: viable transmission of ebola through a non-contact route.  We know we've had numerous healthcare provider exposures where they swore they did not have direct contact with infectious material, but they've all been written up as "inadvertent contact with infectious material".  I think that's a very dangerous way to go.
The reason I call these studies "A Ton", is because they're very clear cut.  It's not that a couple of subjects got ebola, or that the study methodology is full of holes.  These animals got ebola without direct contact of contaminated material.  There's no probability graphs, environmental factors to take into account, anything:  There is a possibility that ebola has a droplet or aerosol vector.  Period.

On the flip side, you have a bunch of folks yelling and screaming "But we've never seen it happen in the wild".  True, but during an outbreak we don't really have laboratory conditions to study it, do we?
 
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