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(Mother Jones)   Just how segregated is Ferguson, Missouri where an unarmed black teenager was shot on Saturday? Well let's just say it's been a "powder keg" of racial imbalance for decades. Here's a by-the-numbers breakdown that will light your fuse   (motherjones.com) divider line 155
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3454 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Aug 2014 at 11:53 AM (9 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-13 09:51:15 AM  
So the black population would rather be poor than have a good paying, law enforcement job.   Who's fault is that?
 
2014-08-13 10:19:44 AM  
In 2013 in Ferguson:
483 black people were arrested
36 white people were arrested
92% of searches and
86% of car stops involved blacks

<racism>Looks like Ferguson's black community has a criminality problem!</racism>
 
2014-08-13 11:33:28 AM  

I_Am_Weasel: So the black population would rather be poor than have a good paying, law enforcement job.   Who's fault is that?


There really needs to be a push to change the relationship between police departments and primarily black communities.  There are problems on both sides - there have been historical problems with some departments racially profiling, but at the same time there's often a communal distrust and unwillingness to cooperate with the police in heavily minority communities.

The police need to do a better job of showing that they're there to serve and protect all citizens, but poor minority communities also need to do a better job of cooperating with the police and teaching their kids to respect law enforcement officers so that the police will be more obliged to view the community members as allies.

While you stated it in a bit of a trolly manner, you're right in that one big change that could help would be getting more members of those communities involved in law enforcement themselves.  Bringing back community policing where the officers patrolling the streets are people who have grown up in the area would help them to be more accepted by the community and help bridge the divide that currently exists between law enforcement and the areas that really need their help the most.
 
2014-08-13 11:56:40 AM  
Light my fuse....like the "Mission Impossible" titles?
 
2014-08-13 11:57:27 AM  

I_Am_Weasel: So the black population would rather be poor than have a good paying, law enforcement job.   Who's fault is that?


It's getting harder and harder to have an actual discussion on Fark because there's more often than not someone threadshiatting right at the start.
 
2014-08-13 12:00:05 PM  
What are the odds that blacks get arrested or pulled over more than whites in a predominantly black neighborhood?

If whites are over represented in government and school boards does that mean black people vote for whites or that black people dont vote or that not enough blacks run for elected positions?
 
2014-08-13 12:00:59 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I_Am_Weasel: So the black population would rather be poor than have a good paying, law enforcement job.   Who's fault is that?

There really needs to be a push to change the relationship between police departments and primarily black communities.  There are problems on both sides - there have been historical problems with some departments racially profiling, but at the same time there's often a communal distrust and unwillingness to cooperate with the police in heavily minority communities.

The police need to do a better job of showing that they're there to serve and protect all citizens, but poor minority communities also need to do a better job of cooperating with the police and teaching their kids to respect law enforcement officers so that the police will be more obliged to view the community members as allies.

While you stated it in a bit of a trolly manner, you're right in that one big change that could help would be getting more members of those communities involved in law enforcement themselves.  Bringing back community policing where the officers patrolling the streets are people who have grown up in the area would help them to be more accepted by the community and help bridge the divide that currently exists between law enforcement and the areas that really need their help the most.


Yeah, but how are law enforcement and municipal governments going to overcome generations of hatred and distrust? It's not like there's a single, major step we could take towards far less reliance on heavy-handed law enforcement practices.
 
2014-08-13 12:02:45 PM  

UNC_Samurai: It's not like there's a single, major step we could take towards far less reliance on heavy-handed law enforcement practices.


ending the war on drugs
 
2014-08-13 12:02:47 PM  

incendi: In 2013 in Ferguson:
483 black people were arrested
36 white people were arrested
92% of searches and
86% of car stops involved blacks

<racism>Looks like Ferguson's black community has a criminality problem!</racism>


Is there any way we can blame the Jews for this?
 
2014-08-13 12:03:25 PM  

Giltric: What are the odds that blacks get arrested or pulled over more than whites in a predominantly black neighborhood?

If whites are over represented in government and school boards does that mean black people vote for whites or that black people dont vote or that not enough blacks run for elected positions?


The percentages for being arrested and pulled over don't come close to matching up.

Your second question, however, is a good one.
 
2014-08-13 12:07:15 PM  

Giltric: What are the odds that blacks get arrested or pulled over more than whites in a predominantly black neighborhood?

If whites are over represented in government and school boards does that mean black people vote for whites or that black people dont vote or that not enough blacks run for elected positions?


Percentages and ratios.  How do they work?
 
2014-08-13 12:07:38 PM  

Giltric: What are the odds that blacks get arrested or pulled over more than whites in a predominantly black neighborhood?

If whites are over represented in government and school boards does that mean black people vote for whites or that black people dont vote or that not enough blacks run for elected positions?


Poverty and the things that come with it don't lend themselves to people running for public office. Leaving questions like education aside, how often does someone who can't even find a job get elected to the City Council? When the bulk of the candidates are white and at least relatively affluent, the black community votes for someone white or they don't vote.

Also, poor people tend to vote less. Kind of hard to remember the goal was to train the swamp when you're ass deep in alligators.
 
2014-08-13 12:08:12 PM  

Giltric: What are the odds that blacks get arrested or pulled over more than whites in a predominantly black neighborhood?


You stopped scrolling TFA, didn't you?

If you kept reading, you would have seen 1 in 3 stops of white people resulted in contraband, while only 1 in 5 stops of black people did the same.
 
2014-08-13 12:08:25 PM  

sprawl15: UNC_Samurai: It's not like there's a single, major step we could take towards far less reliance on heavy-handed law enforcement practices.

ending the war on drugs


Yep. The favorite cause of every retired statesman, to which they suddenly become aware five minutes after they could have done something about it.
 
2014-08-13 12:08:50 PM  

StopDaddy: incendi: In 2013 in Ferguson:
483 black people were arrested
36 white people were arrested
92% of searches and
86% of car stops involved blacks

<racism>Looks like Ferguson's black community has a criminality problem!</racism>

Is there any way we can blame the Jews for this?


That depends. Is Obama Jewish this week?
 
2014-08-13 12:09:30 PM  

StopDaddy: incendi: In 2013 in Ferguson:
483 black people were arrested
36 white people were arrested
92% of searches and
86% of car stops involved blacks

<racism>Looks like Ferguson's black community has a criminality problem!</racism>

Is there any way we can blame the Jews for this?


Are the rioters tangling up people's lights?
 
2014-08-13 12:10:32 PM  

Giltric: What are the odds that blacks get arrested or pulled over more than whites in a predominantly black neighborhood?

If whites are over represented in government and school boards does that mean black people vote for whites or that black people dont vote or that not enough blacks run for elected positions?


Gerrymandering at the local level.   Split the town into four districts with the majority of minorities neighborhoods in one districts.  Assuming the candidates are all at large, then it's likely there will be three whites to one minority on the city council.
 
2014-08-13 12:10:44 PM  

12349876: Giltric: What are the odds that blacks get arrested or pulled over more than whites in a predominantly black neighborhood?

You stopped scrolling TFA, didn't you?

If you kept reading, you would have seen 1 in 3 stops of white people resulted in contraband, while only 1 in 5 stops of black people did the same.


Yes, just like on COPS when the narcotics squad sees a car full of whites driving around a minority neighborhood....the white people were there to buy drugs.
 
2014-08-13 12:11:20 PM  
St. Louis is easily the most segregated place I've ever lived.  I'm not saying there aren't worse places, just that this isn't exactly news to anyone that has ever lived there.
 
2014-08-13 12:11:21 PM  

Li'l Robbie: Light my fuse....like the "Mission Impossible" titles?


More like "Rock and Roll Hoochie Koo."
 
2014-08-13 12:11:37 PM  
Simply not true.

SCOTUS assures me that racism is a thing of the past.
 
2014-08-13 12:11:39 PM  

UNC_Samurai: TuteTibiImperes: I_Am_Weasel: So the black population would rather be poor than have a good paying, law enforcement job.   Who's fault is that?

There really needs to be a push to change the relationship between police departments and primarily black communities.  There are problems on both sides - there have been historical problems with some departments racially profiling, but at the same time there's often a communal distrust and unwillingness to cooperate with the police in heavily minority communities.

The police need to do a better job of showing that they're there to serve and protect all citizens, but poor minority communities also need to do a better job of cooperating with the police and teaching their kids to respect law enforcement officers so that the police will be more obliged to view the community members as allies.

While you stated it in a bit of a trolly manner, you're right in that one big change that could help would be getting more members of those communities involved in law enforcement themselves.  Bringing back community policing where the officers patrolling the streets are people who have grown up in the area would help them to be more accepted by the community and help bridge the divide that currently exists between law enforcement and the areas that really need their help the most.

Yeah, but how are law enforcement and municipal governments going to overcome generations of hatred and distrust? It's not like there's a single, major step we could take towards far less reliance on heavy-handed law enforcement practices.


I think the situation is going to take a lot of time to resolve, but a good start would be targeting the children with a message that the police are their friends.  Have officers from the community stop by schools and talk to the kids about what police officers do.  Make it fun - bring some police dogs, take them on rides around the parking lot and let them play with the siren, etc, just to break the ice and let them see that the police aren't scary.

Start a 'junior officer' program where kids can learn about what police officers do, have weekend or summer camps where they learn to dust for fingerprints, see police dogs being trained, go through a watered down academy obstacle course, etc.  Again, make it fun, make it interactive, and keep the focus away from violence, weapons, and arresting people.

Have the police sponsor youth sports leagues in the area, have officers coach some teams and act as refs, let the kids and community get to know them as members of the same greater community and see that they're there to help and improve things.

Bring back foot patrols in areas that make sense - it's less intimidating than rolling around in a cruiser.  Have the officers on foot engage the people they meet in conversation, talk about what's going on, what the concerns of the community are, and have those concerns be addressed.

There are a lot of things that could be done to help build trust back and to light a spark in today's kids so that they'll grow up with a healthy respect and desire for cooperation with the police department.  Hopefully some of those kids decide to become officers themselves, which will over time balance out the demographics of the department.
 
2014-08-13 12:11:44 PM  

12349876: Giltric: What are the odds that blacks get arrested or pulled over more than whites in a predominantly black neighborhood?

You stopped scrolling TFA, didn't you?

If you kept reading, you would have seen 1 in 3 stops of white people resulted in contraband, while only 1 in 5 stops of black people did the same.


This is just based on watching a few episodes of COPS, but when you see a white guy in a predominately black neighborhood, he's not there to sell insurance. Every time, they ask him what he's doing there...
 
2014-08-13 12:12:39 PM  

Giltric: 12349876: Giltric: What are the odds that blacks get arrested or pulled over more than whites in a predominantly black neighborhood?

You stopped scrolling TFA, didn't you?

If you kept reading, you would have seen 1 in 3 stops of white people resulted in contraband, while only 1 in 5 stops of black people did the same.

Yes, just like on COPS when the narcotics squad sees a car full of whites driving around a minority neighborhood....the white people were there to buy drugs.


beat me to it....
 
2014-08-13 12:15:06 PM  

12349876: Giltric: What are the odds that blacks get arrested or pulled over more than whites in a predominantly black neighborhood?

You stopped scrolling TFA, didn't you?

If you kept reading, you would have seen 1 in 3 stops of white people resulted in contraband, while only 1 in 5 stops of black people did the same.


That brings up a couple of possibilities:

1. White people are more likely to be using drugs/carrying contraband.

or

2. The police are taking a scatter-shot approach to pulling over black people, but only pulling over the white people who they have good reason to believe are up to no good, resulting in less searches turning up empty handed with white stops.
 
2014-08-13 12:16:13 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: 12349876: Giltric: What are the odds that blacks get arrested or pulled over more than whites in a predominantly black neighborhood?

You stopped scrolling TFA, didn't you?

If you kept reading, you would have seen 1 in 3 stops of white people resulted in contraband, while only 1 in 5 stops of black people did the same.

That brings up a couple of possibilities:

1. White people are more likely to be using drugs/carrying contraband.

or

2. The police are taking a scatter-shot approach to pulling over black people, but only pulling over the white people who they have good reason to believe are up to no good, resulting in less searches turning up empty handed with white stops.


2 is most likely happening, but I agree with this being part of it:

Giltric: Yes, just like on COPS when the narcotics squad sees a car full of whites driving around a minority neighborhood....the white people were there to buy drugs.

 
2014-08-13 12:20:58 PM  
In a town that's over 60% black:

* The police chief and the mayor are white
* Just one city council member is black
* No one on the school board is black

Here is a thought: Maybe these black residents should start voting for people that don't oppress them.

(Note: I am not blaming the residents for the death of the man nor of the inappropriate response from the police.)
 
2014-08-13 12:21:12 PM  

WhiskeySticks: 12349876: Giltric: What are the odds that blacks get arrested or pulled over more than whites in a predominantly black neighborhood?

You stopped scrolling TFA, didn't you?

If you kept reading, you would have seen 1 in 3 stops of white people resulted in contraband, while only 1 in 5 stops of black people did the same.

This is just based on watching a few episodes of COPS, but when you see a white guy in a predominately black neighborhood, he's not there to sell insurance. Every time, they ask him what he's doing there...


If I recall, there was a case where racial profiling was used where the driver was a young white female in a neighborhood after midnight, that was almost exclusively black. The cops knew she wasn't a resident and asked stopped her. They found drugs on her surprising no one. It was tossed out because the locality had a ban on racial profiling. That is if I remember the case correctly.
 
2014-08-13 12:22:51 PM  

jonnnney: In a town that's over 60% black:

* The police chief and the mayor are white
* Just one city council member is black
* No one on the school board is black

Here is a thought: Maybe these black residents should start voting for people that don't oppress them.

(Note: I am not blaming the residents for the death of the man nor of the inappropriate response from the police.)



Or possibly the best candidates were white. Crazy, I know, to think that the best person for a job might actually be white.
 
2014-08-13 12:25:52 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Bringing back community policing where the officers patrolling the streets are people who have grown up in the area would help them to be more accepted by the community and help bridge the divide that currently exists between law enforcement and the areas that really need their help the most.


while you are doing that lose ALL the paramilitary stuff. no more swat guys in camo, no up armored humvees, no more M-16, none of that shiat.

also no more swat tams serving warrants for minor shiat. stop the damn excesses of the drug war. it's not a war on civilians. or it's not supposed to be.

i'm as far from a poor black or a poor black neighborhood as you can get and i detest what the police have become. yeah there was always some of it but we seem to have learned nothing since rodney king. a recent local talk show had a black caller who was emphatic that his children were super polite to police so as to give them no excuse for acting out. and yes polite is nice but when it's prompted by fear of what the police may do it's not politeness.

and to be fair "you be disrespecting me" is all too often deserved. respect is earned, not awarded.
 
2014-08-13 12:25:59 PM  
I grew up in the area.

Back in the 70s and 80s it was pretty much a mixed race poor area.  The black residents in St. Louis were mostly south of there in places like Jennngs, Kinloch, or the north part of the City.  There were some nice places (along Elizabeth) and some not so nice places in Ferguson.

They seem to be cleaning up the north side of the cities and pushing the 'disenfranchised' population further north up towards Bellefountain Neighbors, which has caused people like some cousins of mine (who lived there for decades) to say 'screw it' and move out to St. Peters.

My guess is that the powers that be don't appreciate the new riff raff that has moved in.
 
2014-08-13 12:26:22 PM  

Mrbogey: jonnnney: In a town that's over 60% black:

* The police chief and the mayor are white
* Just one city council member is black
* No one on the school board is black

Here is a thought: Maybe these black residents should start voting for people that don't oppress them.

(Note: I am not blaming the residents for the death of the man nor of the inappropriate response from the police.)


Or possibly the best candidates were white. Crazy, I know, to think that the best person for a job might actually be white.


Once brought this up in a college class when it was a situation involving being hired by a company. Thought a few people in class were going to start a riot for even bringing up such a notion. They were the white "social cause of the week" kids.
 
2014-08-13 12:26:23 PM  

Mrbogey: Or possibly the best candidates were white. Crazy, I know, to think that the best person for a job might actually be white.


how can you argue with that logic considering one of the best candidates just caused a riot by executing some black teenager.
 
2014-08-13 12:27:14 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: UNC_Samurai: TuteTibiImperes: I_Am_Weasel: So the black population would rather be poor than have a good paying, law enforcement job.   Who's fault is that?

There really needs to be a push to change the relationship between police departments and primarily black communities.  There are problems on both sides - there have been historical problems with some departments racially profiling, but at the same time there's often a communal distrust and unwillingness to cooperate with the police in heavily minority communities.

The police need to do a better job of showing that they're there to serve and protect all citizens, but poor minority communities also need to do a better job of cooperating with the police and teaching their kids to respect law enforcement officers so that the police will be more obliged to view the community members as allies.

While you stated it in a bit of a trolly manner, you're right in that one big change that could help would be getting more members of those communities involved in law enforcement themselves.  Bringing back community policing where the officers patrolling the streets are people who have grown up in the area would help them to be more accepted by the community and help bridge the divide that currently exists between law enforcement and the areas that really need their help the most.

Yeah, but how are law enforcement and municipal governments going to overcome generations of hatred and distrust? It's not like there's a single, major step we could take towards far less reliance on heavy-handed law enforcement practices.

I think the situation is going to take a lot of time to resolve, but a good start would be targeting the children with a message that the police are their friends.  Have officers from the community stop by schools and talk to the kids about what police officers do.  Make it fun - bring some police dogs, take them on rides around the parking lot and let them play with the siren, etc, just to break the ice and ...


The problem here is, the first thing you need to do is to have officers that look like the citizens they patrol.  Frankly, if the cops are 94% white, and the citizens they police are 60% black (as in this particular city), none of this is ever going to work.  Step one here would be to fire the entire police force, which will never happen (nor could it even be legal to do so; you can't legally just fire everybody because they are white).
 
2014-08-13 12:28:32 PM  

Headso: how can you argue with that logic considering one of the best candidates just caused a riot by executing some black teenager


Pretty sure "Police Officer" isn't an elected position...
 
2014-08-13 12:30:45 PM  
To improve police departments nation wide stop hiring anyone who played high school football and do not hire combat veterans.
 
2014-08-13 12:30:47 PM  

jonnnney: In a town that's over 60% black:

* The police chief and the mayor are white
* Just one city council member is black
* No one on the school board is black

Here is a thought: Maybe these black residents should start voting for people that don't oppress them.

(Note: I am not blaming the residents for the death of the man nor of the inappropriate response from the police.)


In what way are the mayor or city council oppressing anyone?

More to the point, when segregation is by choice, what's proper solution, if you feel that's a problem? I get the point that the leaders don't represent the population a whole, if you believe that skin color is the only thing that determines that (I believe someone once said something about content of their character). Regardless, if 60% of the city is black, one would think that they could elect a black mayor if they so desired.
 
2014-08-13 12:31:15 PM  

Cyclometh: I_Am_Weasel: So the black population would rather be poor than have a good paying, law enforcement job.   Who's fault is that?

It's getting harder and harder to have an actual discussion on Fark because there's more often than not someone threadshiatting right at the start.


Yeah, I was cringing while opening up this thread and, boom, some asshat takes a dump on it right at the start.
 
2014-08-13 12:32:42 PM  
I'm not too familiar with the situation in that neck of the woods, but I've got a couple of questions.

1.  Are there any black officers in the police department there?

2.  Have they been interviewed, and if so, what did they have to say about the situation?

I"m not trolling.  I would just like to know.
 
2014-08-13 12:32:42 PM  

Geotpf: The problem here is, the first thing you need to do is to have officers that look like the citizens they patrol.  Frankly, if the cops are 94% white, and the citizens they police are 60% black (as in this particular city), none of this is ever going to work.  Step one here would be to fire the entire police force, which will never happen (nor could it even be legal to do so; you can't legally just fire everybody because they are white).


Nobody remembers the stories of hiring quotas in order to get more minorities on the force?

They would even pass up white people with high scores so they could hire minorities with a score that was barely passing.

The hiring quotas were court ordered.
 
2014-08-13 12:33:00 PM  

jonnnney: In a town that's over 60% black:

* The police chief and the mayor are white
* Just one city council member is black
* No one on the school board is black

Here is a thought: Maybe these black residents should start voting for people that don't oppress them.

(Note: I am not blaming the residents for the death of the man nor of the inappropriate response from the police.)


Maybe you should engage your brain a little bit more and think about why this situation comes up.
 
2014-08-13 12:33:09 PM  
White America spends a couple hundred years of plundering black wealth then blames blacks for not entering the political arena that is today inaccessible without said wealth. Neato.
 
2014-08-13 12:33:38 PM  

metallion: 1. Are there any black officers in the police department there?


Yes. There are 3 according to the article.

metallion: 2. Have they been interviewed, and if so, what did they have to say about the situation?


Who knows.
 
2014-08-13 12:34:27 PM  

Giltric: Geotpf: The problem here is, the first thing you need to do is to have officers that look like the citizens they patrol.  Frankly, if the cops are 94% white, and the citizens they police are 60% black (as in this particular city), none of this is ever going to work.  Step one here would be to fire the entire police force, which will never happen (nor could it even be legal to do so; you can't legally just fire everybody because they are white).

Nobody remembers the stories of hiring quotas in order to get more minorities on the force?

They would even pass up white people with high scores so they could hire minorities with a score that was barely passing.

The hiring quotas were court ordered.


For most of their history the quotas were rock-solid, 100% hiring white cops only, despite any number of black or other minority potential candidates no doubt being far better.  Never even considered.
 
2014-08-13 12:36:19 PM  
XKCDPopulationMap.jpg
 
2014-08-13 12:36:19 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I think the situation is going to take a lot of time to resolve, but a good start would be targeting the children with a message that the police are their friends.  Have officers from the community stop by schools and talk to the kids about what police officers do.  Make it fun - bring some police dogs, take them on rides around the parking lot and let them play with the siren, etc, just to break the ice and let them see that the police aren't scary.


Before that's going to stick, you're going to have to see a huge change in police culture.  Departments have gotten a lot more adversarial to the point that even as a law abiding white dude, I tense up and slowly back out of the room when I see a cop around.  I can't even begin to imagine what it's like for groups they actually target.
 
2014-08-13 12:37:04 PM  

incendi: Headso: how can you argue with that logic considering one of the best candidates just caused a riot by executing some black teenager

Pretty sure "Police Officer" isn't an elected position...


He also didn't start the riot.  The citizens in the area have every right to peacefully protest if they feel they've been wronged or want to draw attention to a problem, but there is absolutely no excuse for resulting to violence and vandalism.
 
2014-08-13 12:39:46 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Cyclometh: I_Am_Weasel: So the black population would rather be poor than have a good paying, law enforcement job.   Who's fault is that?

It's getting harder and harder to have an actual discussion on Fark because there's more often than not someone threadshiatting right at the start.

Yeah, I was cringing while opening up this thread and, boom, some asshat takes a dump on it right at the start.


You don't think he was being funny? That can happen on fark. I mean "would rather be poor" sort of tips it off.
 
2014-08-13 12:42:09 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Start a 'junior officer' program where kids can learn about what police officers do



I have a strong suspicion the problem isn't that young black kids aren't aware of what cops do. I reckon a lot of them are keenly aware of what police actually do.


 Again, make it fun, make it interactive, and keep the focus away from violence, weapons, and arresting people.

So... the exact opposite of what these kids normally experience from cops?
 
2014-08-13 12:42:38 PM  
 
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