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(The Verge)   "You can call me a homophobe or use any other excuse you choose to write me off but the truth is homosexually [sic] is not universally accepted... And on top of that no Vulcan would consider the situation 'logical'"   (theverge.com) divider line 160
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7568 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Aug 2014 at 7:14 AM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-13 01:18:10 AM  
Snobby self important Star Trek writer won't be a Star Trek writer for much longer if he keeps churning out sewage... I'm glad for the warning.  I won't read anything he's written now either.
 
2014-08-13 01:40:40 AM  
I have read that mini-series; something that both the subby, the author of the article and David himself have all forgotten- this peculiar Vulcan is insane because she has a MALE Vulcan Katra ("soul") that tried to rape her many years ago.  She went to Mount Selya and they were unable to separate his evil Katra from her body.

To make a long story short; Dave Merk's book says homosexuals are insane if you think about it.
 
2014-08-13 01:53:56 AM  

voltOhm: Snobby self important Star Trek writer won't be a Star Trek writer for much longer if he keeps churning out sewage... I'm glad for the warning.  I won't read anything he's written now either.


wow aren't you edgy.
 
2014-08-13 01:55:33 AM  
Oh no, my glorified fan fiction isn't getting enough attention! Let me find the worst email I got and try to drum up some controversy!
 
2014-08-13 01:56:08 AM  
These, too, shall pass
 
2014-08-13 01:57:03 AM  
He's a homophobe...
 
2014-08-13 03:37:21 AM  

Frederick: He's a homophobe...


But enough about Volt...
 
2014-08-13 04:08:41 AM  
David Mack has done some of the biggest shakeups in the continuing Star Trek novels, most notably the Destiny series that brought back the Borg and wiped out entire planets... and left other authors to clean up his mess.

There have also already been gay and lesbian Trek characters before Harbinger, and there will undoubtedly be more.  If a gay character makes you stop reading a book, maybe there's something wrong with you?
 
2014-08-13 06:02:12 AM  
I could care less about the gay aspect. I'd have more of a problem with the Vulcan Klingon thing. Unless it's tng timeline where they get along more.
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2014-08-13 06:04:24 AM  

voltOhm: Snobby self important Star Trek writer won't be a Star Trek writer for much longer if he keeps churning out sewage... I'm glad for the warning.  I won't read anything he's written now either.


It's too bad no one cleans up the sewage you keep churning out.
 
2014-08-13 07:13:59 AM  

Lsherm: Oh no, my glorified fan fiction isn't getting enough attention! Let me find the worst email I got and try to drum up some controversy!


How is getting paid to write "glorified fan fiction" any different than, say, writing an episode of the show?
 
2014-08-13 07:19:29 AM  

Confabulat: Lsherm: Oh no, my glorified fan fiction isn't getting enough attention! Let me find the worst email I got and try to drum up some controversy!

How is getting paid to write "glorified fan fiction" any different than, say, writing an episode of the show?


Mainstream Comic book writers have been little more than paid fanfic writers for decades.
 
2014-08-13 07:24:10 AM  
The author of that article hopes for more "man on sexbot" stories from Star Trek.
 
2014-08-13 07:29:15 AM  
Yes, but the more important question is that is he a homophone?
 
2014-08-13 07:38:33 AM  

Trailltrader: I have read that mini-series; something that both the subby, the author of the article and David himself have all forgotten- this peculiar Vulcan is insane because she has a MALE Vulcan Katra ("soul") that tried to rape her many years ago.  She went to Mount Selya and they were unable to separate his evil Katra from her body.

To make a long story short; Dave Merk's book says homosexuals are insane if you think about it.


. . . okay.  That is kind of stupid then.  Although I can't count the number of times I've seen similar portrayals of gay people.
 
2014-08-13 07:42:23 AM  
What is the Q in LBGTQ? How is it different from the others?
 
2014-08-13 07:46:35 AM  
Father, I am homosexually
 
2014-08-13 07:49:48 AM  

Gunny Highway: What is the Q in LBGTQ? How is it different from the others?


It stands for "queer" and, yes, it does have its controversy because enough people in the community grew up hearing it as a slur.
It's meant to be inclusive of individuals who do not fit nearly into one of the defined boxes.
 
2014-08-13 07:51:29 AM  

meanmutton: Gunny Highway: What is the Q in LBGTQ? How is it different from the others?

It stands for "queer" and, yes, it does have its controversy because enough people in the community grew up hearing it as a slur.
It's meant to be inclusive of individuals who do not fit nearly into one of the defined boxes.


Got ya. Thanks and interesting. Being inclusive is a good thing.
 
2014-08-13 07:51:29 AM  

voltOhm: Snobby self important Star Trek writer won't be a Star Trek writer for much longer if he keeps churning out sewage... I'm glad for the warning.  I won't read anything he's written now either.

media.tumblr.com
 
2014-08-13 07:51:49 AM  

Gunny Highway: What is the Q in LBGTQ? How is it different from the others?


The Q is for "queer". It is a catchall word for anyone who is outside the societal norm, not just those who identify themselves as part of the gay community.
 
2014-08-13 07:55:18 AM  
Star Trek writers should avoid writing about homosexuals, not so much because of the political sensitivity of the topic as that their to-date portrayal of straight relationships is so tone-deaf and out of step with anything approaching reality that it's contributed to the reputation of trekkies as eternal virgins just as much as the more annoying members of the fandom.

Basically, the entire IP would be noticeably improved if they just stopped trying to portray sexual relationships at all, in general.  The 'official' writers so far are only a hair better than the damned fanfiction on this one.


Gunny Highway: What is the Q in LBGTQ? How is it different from the others?


Queer, I think?

I believe it's intended as a sort of "and anything relevant that we've missed", an &c if you will.  Random fetishes like those dudes on the internet who like to have sex with their cars, or the furries, or the bronies; those weird people that apparently only derive sexual pleasure from telling you that they aren't having sex; teenagers who fall very neatly into one of the previous categories but won't shut up about how they're totally more special than those other guys.  That kind of stuff.
 
2014-08-13 07:56:03 AM  
Can any tongue satisfy a Klingon clitoris?
 
2014-08-13 07:58:31 AM  

Confabulat: Lsherm: Oh no, my glorified fan fiction isn't getting enough attention! Let me find the worst email I got and try to drum up some controversy!

How is getting paid to write "glorified fan fiction" any different than, say, writing an episode of the show?


That's a fair and interesting (to me) question. Decent writing to me one of those things that, as Justice Stewart put it, "I know it when I see it."

I can tell if an episode is terribly written, but it still makes it to television and crosses multiple mediums just to get made, which usually evens out or masks shiatty writing. Poorly written books are easier to spot because it's just the words and your imagination.  There's no extra layer of filters to try and make gilded crap out of an original pile of shiat.

I realize that isn't quite the answer you're looking for, but it's the best I can think of right now. Lee Child may not be the best author in the world, but he's still world's better than morons who write similar, equally implausible stories on message boards. It might be talent, editing, or simple structure, but something sets a successful author apart from fanfic.

Of course, now we have Woman Porn 50 Shades of Grey, which people try to throw as a counter-argument, but that is quite literally a lottery winner in a porn category. It doesn't happen that often, and when it finally did, it was in the porn category.
 
2014-08-13 08:04:12 AM  

Bslim: Can any tongue satisfy a Klingon clitoris?


The Vulcan tongue is pointy, and stabs at the Klingon clitoris like a tiny d'k'tahg.
 
2014-08-13 08:04:44 AM  
David Mack will probable never read this email but I am writing it anyway. I purchased and started reading your book, Harbinger and stopped when I got to the part where the Vulcan was having a homosexual affair with the Klingon spy. I deleted the book from my E-reader and will never purchase another volume authored by David Mack. You can call me a homophobe or use any other excuse you choose to write me off but the truth is homosexually [sic] is not universally accepted and I get to decided [sic] what I read and I choose not to read any more of your work.


www.startrek.com


"Thou shalt only write Star Trek novels


that are compatible with conservative Judeo-Christian values"


i.imgur.com


"Excuse me... What does God need with a Star Trek novel?"

Bonus:

i.imgur.com
 
2014-08-13 08:07:28 AM  
Also, I know this is a nerd question, but aren't the Vulcans (at least as of Voyager, maybe this is something retcon'd since) portrayed as having the reproductive cycle typical to non-social mammals, e.g. most of the time you couldn't pay them to so much as think about sex, then every however many years they go into heat, have kids with a random (probably) stranger, and then separate again and wander off on their merry separate ways?

I seem to recall it being kind of a major plot point a few times in earlier series as well, and it does actually preclude both homosexuality and casual affairs for pleasure, those being behaviors mostly characteristic of social mammals and especially primates.  Sort of a major issue of not doing the required homework when writing the book, there, you'd think 'have at least watched some Star Trek' would be a basic requirement.

// Spock being the exception due to half-humanness as of the new movies, I guess.
// I'd always interpreted it as the reason the Vulcans were more 'logical' actually being related; they descended from territorial solitary mammals rather than our own pack hunter/gatherers and had to put more effort into overcoming that to form a society for the logical benefits of the social contract instead of as a natural evolution of their pack structure.
 
2014-08-13 08:13:27 AM  

Trailltrader: I have read that mini-series; something that both the subby, the author of the article and David himself have all forgotten- this peculiar Vulcan is insane because she has a MALE Vulcan Katra ("soul") that tried to rape her many years ago.  She went to Mount Selya and they were unable to separate his evil Katra from her body.

To make a long story short; Dave Merk's book says homosexuals are insane if you think about it.


Only if you use the Vulcan definition of insanity.
 
2014-08-13 08:18:44 AM  
And here I woke up this morning thinking "there is absolutely no way I'm going to see an impassioned debate about gay Vulcan sex today".
 
2014-08-13 08:19:08 AM  
And now a word from Mr. Spock:

You seem to be saying that because homosexuality is not universally tolerated, I must tolerate your homophobia. This is highly illogical. None of the world's religions are universally tolerated, after all, but this does not mean I have to tolerate false Jihadism or Antisemitism, genocide or Auto-da-fés.

I am not going to call you a homophobe. Your error is much too fundamental and deep-rooted for that. I have to call you a bad logician and a hater.
 
2014-08-13 08:19:31 AM  

Trailltrader: I have read that mini-series; something that both the subby, the author of the article and David himself have all forgotten- this peculiar Vulcan is insane because she has a MALE Vulcan Katra ("soul") that tried to rape her many years ago.  She went to Mount Selya and they were unable to separate his evil Katra from her body.

To make a long story short; Dave Merk's book says homosexuals are insane if you think about it.


Dear God, you actually read that shiate? It sounds like L Ron Hubbard.
 
2014-08-13 08:23:19 AM  

Lsherm: I realize that isn't quite the answer you're looking for, but it's the best I can think of right now.


Sure it is. I think about how Enterprise retconned the Klingon makeup for no good reason (while Deep Space Nine make a joke of it in a throwaway Worf line) and now it's considered canon and people make up stories about Klingon/human genetics, etc.

People are nuts.
 
2014-08-13 08:23:28 AM  
"Apparently," continues Spock, "weird little women write erotica on a thing called the Internet in which I engage in homosexual relations and love with my commanding officer, Captain James T. Kirk. Very odd. I've never given them any reason to supposed I would be so inclined."

The human brain must be supposed to be a very queer thing and possibly defective. Still, no skin off of my gothic ears.
 
2014-08-13 08:26:07 AM  
Even though he point of view is dumb, the original point of the letter writer (that homosexuality isn't universally accepted) is true.

As some others have pointed out the fact that it is two women involved isn't the problem so much as that it is a Klingon/Vulcan, especially the Vulcan.  If someone only wanted to have sex once every 7 years they wouldn't hook up with a Vulcan, they'd get married.
 
2014-08-13 08:34:34 AM  

Bslim: Can any tongue satisfy a Klingon clitoris?


i18.photobucket.com
Challenge Accepted.
 
2014-08-13 08:37:06 AM  

mjbok: Even though he point of view is dumb, the original point of the letter writer (that homosexuality isn't universally accepted) is true.

As some others have pointed out the fact that it is two women involved isn't the problem so much as that it is a Klingon/Vulcan, especially the Vulcan.  If someone only wanted to have sex once every 7 years they wouldn't hook up with a Vulcan, they'd get married.


Isn't it that they can only breed every 7 years? They might be able to lick alien vag whenever they want.
 
2014-08-13 08:42:48 AM  

Frederick: He's a homophobe...


He's so vulky.
 
2014-08-13 08:46:23 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: mjbok: Even though he point of view is dumb, the original point of the letter writer (that homosexuality isn't universally accepted) is true.

As some others have pointed out the fact that it is two women involved isn't the problem so much as that it is a Klingon/Vulcan, especially the Vulcan.  If someone only wanted to have sex once every 7 years they wouldn't hook up with a Vulcan, they'd get married.

Isn't it that they can only breed every 7 years? They might be able to lick alien vag whenever they want.


Yeah It's the men who only get horny for levery 7 years if the women were on the same schedule it would be awfully difficult for them to ever match up their schedules so I'm assuming the women are pretty much DTF all the time.  This is honestly the first time I have thought about it but that sounds like a great planet for a human male to visit, well it would be if they weren't all emotionless logicians anyway.
 
2014-08-13 08:47:32 AM  
Do the Vulcans even care what happens during Pon Farr?
 
2014-08-13 08:50:13 AM  

Egoy3k: Yeah It's the men who only get horny for levery 7 years if the women were on the same schedule it would be awfully difficult for them to ever match up their schedules so I'm assuming the women are pretty much DTF all the time


Nope, the female Vulcan on the Enterprise also had the "every 7 years" thing going on, until she got hooked on emotion heightening drugs
 
2014-08-13 08:51:44 AM  
Vulcan Logic has always changed to suit the writers use at the moment.

In one of the very first episodes, Logic meant carrying a phaser rifle, and advocated killing the telepathic guy as quickly as possible.

Later in TOS, logic involves a ritualistic fight to the death over a woman.  (You would think that would've been one of the first things they got rid of during the Logic Pogroms)

By the movies, Logic involves the sitting cross legged with candles in front of an infinity mirror.(?)

By Voyager, there are remarks about the Vulcan Priests praying in the Temples  (WHAT?!)

And then in Enterprise, we finally had to introduce a space ship full of what I will call "Reform Vulcans" who make jokes and do mind melds for fun, you know, like Spock.  (they are the ones that give T'Pal, the mind meld STD)

None of it is logical.
 
2014-08-13 08:53:12 AM  
Summary: A reader didn't like a particular book, and decided not to buy other books written by that author. The author averred that he would not change his style to suit that one reader.
 
2014-08-13 08:53:47 AM  

IronOcelot: Gunny Highway: What is the Q in LBGTQ? How is it different from the others?

The Q is for "queer". It is a catchall word for anyone who is outside the societal norm, not just those who identify themselves as part of the gay community.


What is so queer about a Lettuce Bacon Guacamole Tomato sandwich?
 
2014-08-13 08:58:54 AM  
The heart wants what the heart wants. Fascinating.
 
2014-08-13 09:01:18 AM  

Egoy3k: HotWingConspiracy: mjbok: Even though he point of view is dumb, the original point of the letter writer (that homosexuality isn't universally accepted) is true.

As some others have pointed out the fact that it is two women involved isn't the problem so much as that it is a Klingon/Vulcan, especially the Vulcan.  If someone only wanted to have sex once every 7 years they wouldn't hook up with a Vulcan, they'd get married.

Isn't it that they can only breed every 7 years? They might be able to lick alien vag whenever they want.

Yeah It's the men who only get horny for levery 7 years if the women were on the same schedule it would be awfully difficult for them to ever match up their schedules so I'm assuming the women are pretty much DTF all the time.  This is honestly the first time I have thought about it but that sounds like a great planet for a human male to visit, well it would be if they weren't all emotionless logicians anyway.


They can have sex at any time, it's just the really freaky-deaky shiat that happens every seven years.
 
2014-08-13 09:04:21 AM  
I don't particularly care that dude wants to make gay Trek characters, that's fine, whatever. But a Vulcan? Besides the whole bit where they only really have a desire for sex every 7 years, a Vulcan would see the whole thing as illogical due to the inability to procreate in such a relationship. Not to mention that a Vulcan pairing with a highly emotional illogical Klingon would be considered crazier than Vulcans pairing with humans. He could have made them a couple gay humans and not be considered so stupid for it. Or maybe a lesbian human and Andorian couple or something.
 
2014-08-13 09:07:51 AM  

Parthenogenetic: Bonus:

i.imgur.com


Nice.

I hate the new cut got rid of my favorite line:

'We all create God in our own image."
 
2014-08-13 09:08:24 AM  
I'm fine with it, so long as the lesbians involved are hot.

Ugly lesbians may be realistic, but there's no need to portray them...

/kidding, sort of
 
2014-08-13 09:09:45 AM  

brainlordmesomorph: By Voyager, there are remarks about the Vulcan Priests praying in the Temples (WHAT?!)


Before the teachings of Surak, Vulcans were polytheists.
Some still honor the old gods out of a respect for tradition.
 
2014-08-13 09:11:15 AM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: Besides the whole bit where they only really have a desire for sex every 7 years, a Vulcan would see the whole thing as illogical due to the inability to procreate in such a relationship.


Sex can be useful for things besides procreation. It might be situationally logical to use it as a means to achieve some other goal.
 
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