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(Business Insider (Australia))   "We rolled lighter than that in an actual warzone" - a scary look at Police militarization   (businessinsider.com.au) divider line 244
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3494 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Aug 2014 at 9:04 AM (5 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-13 01:33:04 AM
FTA:

"We looked intimidating, but all of our vehicles and equipment had a clear purpose for combat against enemy forces. So why is this same gear being used on our city streets?"

The author compares his military experiences with today's police in the above quote.  And I think he knows quite well the answer.  Anyone who has listened to LEO's talk for more than a few minutes has heard that we civilians are their enemy.  That cops have to constantly treat every situation like it is life threatening.  Those attitudes have consequences.
 
2014-08-13 03:27:29 AM

Frederick: Anyone who has listened to LEO's talk for more than a few minutes has heard that we civilians are their enemy.


"It always embarrassed Samuel Vimes when civilians tried to speak to him in what they thought was "policeman." If it came to that, he hated thinking of them as civilians. What was a policeman, if not a civilian with a uniform and a badge? But they tended to use the term these days as a way of describing people who were not policemen. It was a dangerous habit: once policemen stopped being civilians the only other thing they could be was soldiers."
From Snuff

 
2014-08-13 03:33:25 AM
static.businessinsider.com

The only part of this image that doesn't make me sick to my stomach is actually the gas mask helmets.

Tear gas is one of the most common riot dispersal tools around the world. There's no reason good cops should be hindered by their own weapons, because in a riot situation, they may need to charge into the gassed areas to save lives, and helmets are ubiquitous. EVERYONE in a riot, police or not, should have one on if possible.

Everything else? fark those guys. Cammo? You are a police office. You should be in florescent yellow vests and blue uniforms, and you shouldn't have machine guns and an APC.

www.colombotelegraph.com
 
2014-08-13 09:07:53 AM
They're from the government and they are here to help.
 
2014-08-13 09:08:38 AM
"Why do these cops need MARPAT camo pants again," I asked on Twitter this morning.

Because it looks cool, duh.
 
2014-08-13 09:08:58 AM

doglover: You should be in florescent yellow vests and blue uniforms


i.imgur.com
 
2014-08-13 09:09:26 AM
What the possible fark use could camo be on the streets of Ferguson anyway?

Oh yeah, I forgot.  The company that makes those pants made twelve million, and the DoD only had use for five, so ... surplus to the cops and the company still pulls a profit.
 
2014-08-13 09:10:00 AM

Arkanaut: "Why do these cops need MARPAT camo pants again," I asked on Twitter this morning.

Because it looks cool, duh.


I'm a little jealous of the camo they get to wear. ACUs suck.
 
2014-08-13 09:10:26 AM
Cammo?  In the city?

"I SEE YOU"
 
2014-08-13 09:12:13 AM
If the population is constantly arming itself, why wouldn't the police?  There are sane countries where guns aren't fetishizes by both sides.
 
2014-08-13 09:12:28 AM
I haven't visited that part of St. Louis County since the trouble started, but it does sound like martial law. Doesn't help matters.
 
2014-08-13 09:13:42 AM
It's called fascism.

Keep telling yourself it isn't here *yet*
 
2014-08-13 09:13:56 AM
Police are just using black people for target practice
 
2014-08-13 09:14:14 AM

Arkanaut: "Why do these cops need MARPAT camo pants again," I asked on Twitter this morning.

Because it looks cool, duh.


This.
It's all about looking like a bad-ass. Every cop secretly wishes he was SWAT just like when they were in the military they all wished they were SF. So once they get the chance to strap the gear and walk around like the raiding an Taliban stronghold they will.
CSB
My buddy from the Army is a US Marshal down on the border. I asked him how often he gets to gear up and he said whenever they execute a warrant after dark. With the cartel activity down there it can be pretty dangerous. He said when he's in charge, he'd rather wait until mid morning, park his car near the guy's house and wait for him to come outside. He says he's never had an incident with that approach.
But that limits his opportunities to gear up like a cool guy. He says some of those guys really get off on it.
 
2014-08-13 09:14:45 AM
They aren't police... they're an occupying army. They aren't serving or protecting anyone... they view themselves as an army, surrounded by bad guys who they need to fight.
 
2014-08-13 09:15:30 AM

Karac: What the possible fark use could camo be on the streets of Ferguson anyway?

Oh yeah, I forgot.  The company that makes those pants made twelve million, and the DoD only had use for five, so ... surplus to the cops and the company still pulls a profit.


and they better remember to make a "campaign contribution" *wink* to the congressman who made that happen for them.
 
MFK
2014-08-13 09:16:59 AM
There are laws against using the military domestically. How is militarizing the police not a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act? Just because they're not federal soldiers, but local ones?

Looking at these pictures is sickening. I don't care how many people are pissed off and rioting, you don't go in with machine guns to solve the problem. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOUR TRIGGERHAPPY COPS ARE THE REASON FOR THE RIOTS IN THE FIRST PLACE!
 
2014-08-13 09:17:01 AM
Both the far left and far right distrust armed agents of the government.

And they are both right.
 
2014-08-13 09:17:20 AM
I remember being a kid in the 80s and hearing about paramilitaries running amok in some loser country and thinking "glad that's not happening in our country."

Now the cops have become paramilitaries at a time when this country hasn't been safer in at least 50 years.  I'm not sure what the reason for that is.  Maybe it's because if you ask the average citizen he will tell you that crime is at an all time high because he watches too much local news.  If the citizens are terrified, then it's only logical that they'll give the people who promise to protect them whatever goodies they want.
 
2014-08-13 09:17:45 AM
A no fly zone was instituted over the city. Presumably because they don't want any civilian aircraft shot down by the police.
 
2014-08-13 09:18:10 AM

doglover: [static.businessinsider.com image 850x637]

The only part of this image that doesn't make me sick to my stomach is actually the gas mask helmets.

Tear gas is one of the most common riot dispersal tools around the world. There's no reason good cops should be hindered by their own weapons, because in a riot situation, they may need to charge into the gassed areas to save lives, and helmets are ubiquitous. EVERYONE in a riot, police or not, should have one on if possible.


The other scary thing IMO is that they basically don't have any less-lethal options in that picture. There's no taser, no baton... with a carbine if someone's fighting back, it'll be harder to restrain them.

They're basically set up so all they can do is shoot people.
 
2014-08-13 09:18:18 AM
The public is souring on constant war-waging, so the military-industrial complex is developing new markets for their wares.

The raw efficiency of capitalism is a thing to behold.
=Smidge=
 
2014-08-13 09:19:28 AM
submitter, because of the National Rifle Association's staunch opposition to any form of sane and reasonable gun control, citizens today are able to purchase rifles that feature both pistol grips and adjustable stocks. The heavy arming of the police is entirely justified when they are faced with that sort of firepower.

If you do not wish for police to be armed like a military, then stop allowing citizens to own firearms with barrel shrouds.
 
2014-08-13 09:20:03 AM

MFK: There are laws against using the military domestically


One of the most interesting things I found interesting about the Geneva Conventions is that the use of tear gas in war is considered chemical warfare, but since tear gas is only used domestically that it isn't a violation of the Geneva Conventions.

It's good enough to use on your own civilian populace, but not good enough to use against enemy combatants in a war zone.
 
2014-08-13 09:20:04 AM
Just another day in occupied Ukraine.

Oh, wait...

static.businessinsider.com
 
2014-08-13 09:20:21 AM

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: If the population is constantly arming itself, why wouldn't the police?


If the people to whom you are referring were the people committing most of the crime, you'd have a point.
 
2014-08-13 09:20:38 AM

MFK: I don't care how many people are pissed off and rioting


Well, if you ask the KKKops, there probably aren't very many "people" rioting. And that's really the problem with the whole situation south of the Mason Dixon.
 
MFK
2014-08-13 09:20:53 AM

Lost Thought 00: A no fly zone was instituted over the city. Presumably because they don't want any civilian aircraft shot down by the police.


This is some bullshiat right there. This isn't farking Ramadi
 
2014-08-13 09:20:54 AM
Big government is here to enforce zero tolerance.
 
2014-08-13 09:21:31 AM

doglover: Everything else? fark those guys. Cammo? You are a police office. You should be in florescent yellow vests and blue uniforms, and you shouldn't have machine guns and an APC.


British cops are generally alright folks, partly because if they kill someone there's a very good chance they;ll be at the center of a parliamentary inquiry, but when it comes to riot suppression they don't fark around.

"This is the six hundredth time we have suppressed a riot, we have become exceedingly efficient at it"
 
2014-08-13 09:21:39 AM
When these podunk idiots buy those armored carriers all it's doing is giving someone incentive to find a way to crack that nut.
 
2014-08-13 09:22:12 AM

Lost Thought 00: A no fly zone was instituted over the city. Presumably because they don't want any civilian aircraft shot down by the police.


I'd guess it's (a) to keep the news choppers out (great for transparency), and (b) so any police choppers don't have to worry about running into anyone else.
 
2014-08-13 09:22:35 AM
wow, business insider is suddenly scared of assault rifles, intredasting
 
2014-08-13 09:23:17 AM
static.comicvine.com
 
MFK
2014-08-13 09:23:34 AM

cchris_39: Big government is here to enforce zero tolerance.


This isn't "big government". This is local government that's taken so much advantage of Bush's  GWOT money they were handing out to cops 10 years ago like it was candy.
 
2014-08-13 09:23:39 AM
I've got friends all across the political spectrum on Facebook from Tea Partiers to fellow travelers, and one thing I have noticed in the past couple of months is how many left and right political publications have been increasingly alarmed at both the militarization of our police force and the abuses of authority that have been becoming all too routine. It seems to me that these issues are not a right/left or conservative/liberal issue and is something that we all need to address very, very soon. When the NRO and Mother Jones are on the same page on a problem, you know something has indeed gone very, very wrong.
 
2014-08-13 09:23:57 AM

MFK: Lost Thought 00: A no fly zone was instituted over the city. Presumably because they don't want any civilian aircraft shot down by the police.

This is some bullshiat right there. This isn't farking Ramadi


I heard it doesn't affect commercial air traffic, so it's to keep the media away.
 
2014-08-13 09:24:30 AM

Ivandrago: Arkanaut: "Why do these cops need MARPAT camo pants again," I asked on Twitter this morning.

Because it looks cool, duh.

This.
It's all about looking like a bad-ass. Every cop secretly wishes he was SWAT just like when they were in the military they all wished they were SF. So once they get the chance to strap the gear and walk around like the raiding an Taliban stronghold they will.
CSB
My buddy from the Army is a US Marshal down on the border. I asked him how often he gets to gear up and he said whenever they execute a warrant after dark. With the cartel activity down there it can be pretty dangerous. He said when he's in charge, he'd rather wait until mid morning, park his car near the guy's house and wait for him to come outside. He says he's never had an incident with that approach.
But that limits his opportunities to gear up like a cool guy. He says some of those guys really get off on it.


[john_matrix_gear_up.gif]

It's like porn for Tactical Gear Fat Guy.
i10.photobucket.com
 
2014-08-13 09:24:55 AM

Dimensio: submitter, because of the National Rifle Association's staunch opposition to any form of sane and reasonable gun control, citizens today are able to purchase rifles that feature both pistol grips and adjustable stocks. The heavy arming of the police is entirely justified when they are faced with that sort of firepower.

If you do not wish for police to be armed like a military, then stop allowing citizens to own firearms with barrel shrouds.


Dude, that's a farking weak as hell argument. Were there reports of shots fired in the area? Visible gunmen in the streets taking pot shots at people?

Rioting is bullshiat and those that do it need to be punished, but at the end of the day it's property crime.

I am getting a little tired of the local cletuses getting all stormtropper in the middle of populated areas. It's farking rediculous.
 
2014-08-13 09:25:05 AM

Smidge204: The public is souring on constant war-waging, so the military-industrial complex is developing new markets for their wares.

The raw efficiency of capitalism is a thing to behold.
=Smidge=


I wish this was capitalism. This is government well-fare at it's worst. They are all paid for by Homeland Security grants.
 
2014-08-13 09:25:05 AM

HotWingConspiracy: When these podunk idiots buy those armored carriers all it's doing is giving someone incentive to find a way to crack that nut.


It's called a "sticky bomb"

content8.flixster.com
 
2014-08-13 09:25:19 AM
They have short-barreled 5.56-mm rifles based on the military M4 carbine, with scopes that can accurately hit a target out to 500 meters.

That's good for the scope.  Meanwhile the cop carrying the rifle it's attached to hasn't fired the thing since he barely qualified with it last year, and probably can't hit an Escalade at 20 paces.
 
2014-08-13 09:25:41 AM
I see the Peacekeepers are just doing their jobs. Move along citizen, there's nothing to see here.
 
2014-08-13 09:27:04 AM
It's always baffled me why these doughy bastards feel they need to wear camo in an environment like this.  It makes no sense, and just leaves them looking like cosplayers who really shouldn't ever be taken seriously.

Nonetheless, this situation isn't going to end well.  You have an angry black community squaring off with a gaggle of doughy, white, over-armed, Missouri yokels desperate to be seen as a G.I. Joe-esque "Real American Hero" like their well-trained physical and intellectual superiors in the military.
 
2014-08-13 09:27:32 AM
www.political-humor.org
 
2014-08-13 09:28:42 AM

Dimensio: submitter, because of the National Rifle Association's staunch opposition to any form of sane and reasonable gun control, citizens today are able to purchase rifles that feature both pistol grips and adjustable stocks. The heavy arming of the police is entirely justified when they are faced with that sort of firepower.

If you do not wish for police to be armed like a military, then stop allowing citizens to own firearms with barrel shrouds.


I think there's a question of the appropriate level of force... if they brought this level of force against a serious threat or terrorist cell, it would be appropriate... but the fact that the police go all SWAT on every damned situation really overplays their hand... they don't want safety, they want control.

I mean, the NRA isn't why  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/15/texas-swat-team-conducts-_n_ 3 764951.html  Texas cops used two APCs, more than 50 officers in full swat gear, including automatic weapons to raid an organic farm. The reality is that as cops get the equipment to deal with top-tier threats, they end up using that equipment against ordinary threats, or non-existant threats. You look at the violent crime rate, and you look at the number of swat raids per year, and you find a police force that's getting more and more violent in a country that isn't.
 
2014-08-13 09:28:47 AM

MFK: This isn't "big government". This is local government that's taken so much advantage of Bush's  GWOT money they were handing out to cops 10 years ago like it was candy.


Unless I'm mistaken it has a lot more to do with the military giving local departments the equipment for free or pennies on the dollar.  I believe it is called the 1033 program.
 
2014-08-13 09:29:03 AM

Koodz: They have short-barreled 5.56-mm rifles based on the military M4 carbine, with scopes that can accurately hit a target out to 500 meters.

That's good for the scope.  Meanwhile the cop carrying the rifle it's attached to hasn't fired the thing since he barely qualified with it last year, and probably can't hit an Escalade at 20 paces.


But since he plays Call of Duty in his off time he probably thinks he can
 
2014-08-13 09:29:24 AM

MFK: There are laws against using the military domestically. How is militarizing the police not a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act? Just because they're not federal soldiers, but local ones?


Because they aren't military personnel of any kind.
They are civilian law enforcement.
 
2014-08-13 09:30:29 AM

Arkanaut: "Why do these cops need MARPAT camo pants again," I asked on Twitter this morning.

Because it looks cool, duh.


I think I can answer that
MARPAT is on its way out (I think) so the clothing can be gotten on the cheap.  If you've worn issued clothing, its harder wearing, ripstop, reinforced to handle kneepads, load bearing belts, ect.  They are nice pants, and can be pretty comfy even in hot temps.  "tactical pants" are sold in police colors, but they are about 10X as expensive as military surplus.

Don't get me wrong, this is farking retarded and I'm sure the reasons are NOT the above, but one could argue them as being accurate.
 
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