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(KSDK St. Louis)   Big Business: Our taxes are too high. Real data: Average final corporate tax rate last year was 18%, with nearly two dozen firms paying none or negative tax rates   (ksdk.com ) divider line
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1498 clicks; posted to Business » on 13 Aug 2014 at 1:34 AM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-12 09:29:50 PM  
Clearly, another round of tax cuts is all they need to begin raining jobs down upon us peons.
 
2014-08-12 10:10:10 PM  
Shhhh. We're not supposed to look at the effective tax rate. We're supposed to handwave that away.
 
2014-08-12 11:44:18 PM  
so 4% didn't pay income tax? What about other taxes?
 
2014-08-12 11:52:43 PM  

king_nacho: so 4% didn't pay income tax? What about other taxes?


I paid other taxes.  Plus income tax.  Why can't they do the same?
 
2014-08-13 12:23:16 AM  
This is what happens when you vote for Demublicans.
 
2014-08-13 01:37:29 AM  

DrPainMD: This is what happens when you vote for Demublicans.


i.qkme.me
 
2014-08-13 01:42:03 AM  
Is 18% low?
 
2014-08-13 01:51:58 AM  

EdNortonsTwin: Is 18% low?


NOT low enough.
 
2014-08-13 01:53:23 AM  
But... but... They're the job creators!

Yeah, IN CHINA! And all their money is in the Caymans!

First against the wall, you bastiches!
 
2014-08-13 01:55:40 AM  
Here's the thing about "Averages" Those companies that use loopholes and otherwise pay less than 18% heavily skew the numbers for everyone else who doesn't scam the system. Every penny that a business pays in taxes is passed on to the eventual consumer. Tax the business is just another way of saying tax the consumer but lets try to hide it.
 
2014-08-13 01:56:45 AM  
Obvious tag busy stashing away money in the Cayman Islands?
 
2014-08-13 01:59:39 AM  

Radioactive Ass: Tax the business is just another way of saying tax the consumer but lets try to hide it.


Whooo boy!  More derp about how business can transfer all taxes to the consumer.
 
2014-08-13 02:02:12 AM  

Radioactive Ass: Here's the thing about "Averages" Those companies that use loopholes and otherwise pay less than 18% heavily skew the numbers for everyone else who doesn't scam the system. Every penny that a business pays in taxes is passed on to the eventual consumer. Tax the business is just another way of saying tax the consumer but lets try to hide it.


And of course conversely every penny in profit is passed on to the customer, right?
 
2014-08-13 02:02:17 AM  

Radioactive Ass: Here's the thing about "Averages" Those companies that use loopholes and otherwise pay less than 18% heavily skew the numbers for everyone else who doesn't scam the system. Every penny that a business pays in taxes is passed on to the eventual consumer. Tax the business is just another way of saying tax the consumer but lets try to hide it.


You are very ignorant.

Probably trolling too.
 
2014-08-13 02:02:27 AM  

Radioactive Ass: Here's the thing about "Averages" Those companies that use loopholes and otherwise pay less than 18% heavily skew the numbers for everyone else who doesn't scam the system. Every penny that a business pays in taxes is passed on to the eventual consumer. Tax the business is just another way of saying tax the consumer but lets try to hide it.


The thing about averages is that they tell you if a problem is a really big problem or a really small problem; but best of all, averages give you lots of little cases to work with. Once you have the data, you can plot it on a graph as something like a curve, and then you can isolate sections of your curve, and then you can say "Now let's do something about the cases that sit on this part of the curve and not the other bits." Or you can make a little drawing of bars like a bar graph, and choose only some of the bars and say, "Let's do something about these cases here but not the others." I know it is a really strange idea that smacks of witchcraft but mathemagicians are a wily bunch.
 
2014-08-13 02:06:40 AM  
Here's the deal.... Corporations are people...people pay taxes.....so do corporations.... With me so far? Well people can have deductions for stuff like dependents, like children or wave slaves. So, if you were to get close to the combination of both, you get the Duggans..who have tax breaks and such all over themselves and corporate and media America....well..just don't fark with that dynasty.. Duck or either
 
2014-08-13 02:13:46 AM  

Rixel: Here's the deal.... Corporations are people...people pay taxes.....so do corporations.... With me so far? Well people can have deductions for stuff like dependents, like children or wave slaves. So, if you were to get close to the combination of both, you get the Duggans..who have tax breaks and such all over themselves and corporate and media America....well..just don't fark with that dynasty.. Duck or either


Quoi?
 
2014-08-13 02:20:14 AM  
Actually what you have is corporations paying 18% (average) taxes on profit, then additional on payroll tax and other things, which just means instead of it getting passed on to the average worker who then gets taxed, they tax the employer.  But it's so much easier to say "We aren't taxing you, we're taxing your employer." and then real idiots will believe "well, so long as it doesn't affect my pay, it must be good."

I don't mind that businesses pay tax on their profits. What I do mind is politicians who think we're all idiots.  Well, I also mind the idiots that fall for their garbage and spout their drivel as though it actually made sense, but since they aren't likely to actually learn....

I do find it interesting that with the USA being one of highest taxed places businesses can be established, we still have a lot of start-ups being created and companies growing. Must be something said for legislation that makes it so bribes and kickbacks are illegal and everyone (theoretically) has an even playing field.

http://www.kpmg.com/global/en/services/tax/tax-tools-and-resources/p ag es/corporate-tax-rates-table.aspx
 
2014-08-13 02:20:28 AM  

Smackledorfer: Radioactive Ass: Here's the thing about "Averages" Those companies that use loopholes and otherwise pay less than 18% heavily skew the numbers for everyone else who doesn't scam the system. Every penny that a business pays in taxes is passed on to the eventual consumer. Tax the business is just another way of saying tax the consumer but lets try to hide it.


That's interesting, so I guess that also means that every penny that is paid to a CEO is also passed to the consumer.  So since CEO pay directly costs me money, I should get a say in how much they get paid.....Right?
 
2014-08-13 02:24:27 AM  

phalamir: Rixel: Here's the deal.... Corporations are people...people pay taxes.....so do corporations.... With me so far? Well people can have deductions for stuff like dependents, like children or wave slaves. So, if you were to get close to the combination of both, you get the Duggans..who have tax breaks and such all over themselves and corporate and media America....well..just don't fark with that dynasty.. Duck or either

Quoi?


I call them "surfers" myself...

www.surfersparadisecarhire.com
 
2014-08-13 02:30:12 AM  
www.claremontcheese.com
 
2014-08-13 02:33:19 AM  

Zandor: Actually what you have is corporations paying 18% (average) taxes on profit, then additional on payroll tax and other things, which just means instead of it getting passed on to the average worker who then gets taxed, they tax the employer.  But it's so much easier to say "We aren't taxing you, we're taxing your employer." and then real idiots will believe "well, so long as it doesn't affect my pay, it must be good."

I don't mind that businesses pay tax on their profits. What I do mind is politicians who think we're all idiots.  Well, I also mind the idiots that fall for their garbage and spout their drivel as though it actually made sense, but since they aren't likely to actually learn....

I do find it interesting that with the USA being one of highest taxed places businesses can be established, we still have a lot of start-ups being created and companies growing. Must be something said for legislation that makes it so bribes and kickbacks are illegal and everyone (theoretically) has an even playing field.

http://www.kpmg.com/global/en/services/tax/tax-tools-and-resources/p ag es/corporate-tax-rates-table.aspx


Or that the 40% corporate tax rate is about as legit as using marginal tax rates when discussing tax burdens for individuals.
 
2014-08-13 02:46:45 AM  
Zandor:
I do find it interesting that with the USA being one of highest taxed places businesses can be established, we still have a lot of start-ups being created and companies growing. Must be something said for legislation that makes it so bribes and kickbacks are illegal and everyone (theoretically) has an even playing field.

Now what the fark are you doing posting that drivel? What would your mother think? Have you no shame?
 
2014-08-13 02:47:28 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Shhhh. We're not supposed to look at the effective tax rate. We're supposed to handwave that away.


Unless we're trying to prove that half the country doesn't pay taxes.
 
2014-08-13 02:50:14 AM  
Headline: showing big business to be liars and schemers

Real world problem: some idiot congresscritters will believe them and try for another round of tax cuts
 
2014-08-13 03:06:21 AM  

DrPainMD: This is what happens when you vote for Demublicans.


Roight, guv.  And the Anarcho-Capitalists Libertarians would do any different.

/Actually they would do different:  no taxes at all for anything with Inc after its name and at least a gigabuck in assets
//I very much doubt you're stumping for Greens or Socialists
 
2014-08-13 03:08:10 AM  
Corporate America is not paying enough it taxes?

CUT CORPORATE TAXES EVEN MORE!

And that is the current American mentality.  Enjoy the revolution!  I will be selling guillotines to both sides.
 
2014-08-13 03:53:02 AM  
Aren't tax breaks/credits incentive for business to operate a certain way? Honest question, not looking at this from a partisan angle.

My first thought was: if the average is 18% why not set it at or near that and eliminate the credits/breaks? That seems like a good idea, but then the breaks/credits as leverage are also eliminated.

So maybe a minimum corporate tax rate as well and breaks/credits can be rolled over for a certain amount of time.

TLDR - How big of a problem is this and what is a realistic solution?
 
2014-08-13 03:57:36 AM  
I think corporate tax rates should be 0%
 
2014-08-13 03:58:43 AM  

fusillade762: DrPainMD: This is what happens when you vote for Demublicans.

[i.qkme.me image 560x375]


Make your vote count: hold your nose and vote for someone you can't stand.
 
2014-08-13 03:59:54 AM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: DrPainMD: This is what happens when you vote for Demublicans.

Roight, guv.  And the Anarcho-Capitalists Libertarians would do any different.

/Actually they would do different:  no taxes at all for anything with Inc after its name and at least a gigabuck in assets
//I very much doubt you're stumping for Greens or Socialists


Actually, most libertarians are in favor of no income or property taxes. Corporate taxes should be the primary source of government revenue.
 
2014-08-13 04:01:19 AM  

Almost Everybody Poops: I think corporate tax rates should be 0%


Because you want to drain most of the capital out of the economy?
 
2014-08-13 04:23:40 AM  

Radioactive Ass: Here's the thing about "Averages" Those companies that use loopholes and otherwise pay less than 18% heavily skew the numbers for everyone else who doesn't scam the system. Every penny that a business pays in taxes is passed on to the eventual consumer. Tax the business is just another way of saying tax the consumer but lets try to hide it.


So, remove all corporate taxes and just increase sales tax?

I'm certain the companies will lower their prices accordingly.
 
2014-08-13 04:54:54 AM  

SquiggsIN: Is the trickle all the way down yet? I was told it would be trickling and I can only assume its a very slow process...


it's coming, dont worry. just wait....
 
2014-08-13 04:58:02 AM  

EdNortonsTwin: Is 18% low?


The top tax bracket (which realistically any company we're talking about when we say 'corporations', and many much smaller than that, easily fall into) is supposed to be around 40%.

So, yes, only paying half of what they're ostensibly supposed to pay on average is maybe overdoing it on the deductions and so on.

Not necessarily nefarious as such, but probably a good indicator that something's not quite right and we need to overhaul something somewhere.
 
2014-08-13 05:28:36 AM  

fusillade762: Radioactive Ass: Here's the thing about "Averages" Those companies that use loopholes and otherwise pay less than 18% heavily skew the numbers for everyone else who doesn't scam the system. Every penny that a business pays in taxes is passed on to the eventual consumer. Tax the business is just another way of saying tax the consumer but lets try to hide it.

And of course conversely every penny in profit is passed on to the customer, right?


Allow me to give the standard Libertarian rebuttal to that argument:

Anyone with even the slightest understanding of economics can see that that's different because LOOK BEHIND YOU A THREE HEADED MONKEY!

*runs away*
 
2014-08-13 05:32:12 AM  

Jim_Callahan: EdNortonsTwin: Is 18% low?

The top tax bracket (which realistically any company we're talking about when we say 'corporations', and many much smaller than that, easily fall into) is supposed to be around 40%.

So, yes, only paying half of what they're ostensibly supposed to pay on average is maybe overdoing it on the deductions and so on.

Not necessarily nefarious as such, but probably a good indicator that something's not quite right and we need to overhaul something somewhere.


The article also mentions that News Corp, which owns Fox News, paid 0% or less in taxes. Seems nefarious enough to me.
 
2014-08-13 05:34:55 AM  
Say, let's ask the "fair n' flat" taxers if they'd like to apply that principle to capital gains.
Guys?
GUYS??
Bueller?
 
2014-08-13 05:35:35 AM  

Jim_Callahan: EdNortonsTwin: Is 18% low?

The top tax bracket (which realistically any company we're talking about when we say 'corporations', and many much smaller than that, easily fall into) is supposed to be around 40%.

So, yes, only paying half of what they're ostensibly supposed to pay on average is maybe overdoing it on the deductions and so on.

Not necessarily nefarious as such, but probably a good indicator that something's not quite right and we need to overhaul something somewhere.


Unfamiliar with the American corporate tax filing, I'm trying to think of a good reason for a deduction beyond health care, nevermind 22% worth of deductions. I can only assume that sufficient numbers were nickel 'n dime'd in for what might've seemed like good reasons at the time.
 
2014-08-13 05:38:47 AM  
i.imgur.com

It'll start trickling down, soon.  Aaaaaaany day now.

Maybe another tax cut for the rich will speed things up?  The last 142 didn't work, but maybe THIS time's the one!
 
2014-08-13 05:39:00 AM  

Jim_Callahan: EdNortonsTwin: Is 18% low?

The top tax bracket (which realistically any company we're talking about when we say 'corporations', and many much smaller than that, easily fall into) is supposed to be around 40%.

So, yes, only paying half of what they're ostensibly supposed to pay on average is maybe overdoing it on the deductions and so on.

Not necessarily nefarious as such, but probably a good indicator that something's not quite right and we need to overhaul something somewhere.



Sure, but it sounds like a lot of the companies dragging down this particular average have adequate (or at least not-obviously-inadequate) justification for not paying a lot of US tax on their income last year.

The media does this with individuals from time to time also: "OMG look how many millionaires aren't paying US income tax!" As if everyone should be paying income taxes in the US regardless of their circumstances.

I'm pretty progressive with regard to tax, but not really feeling the outrage here.
 
2014-08-13 05:47:08 AM  

Alphax: Almost Everybody Poops: I think corporate tax rates should be 0%

Because you want to drain most of the capital out of the economy?


Most people who propose that propose to shift the tax burden somewhere else - usually capital gains. Not actually a bad idea, but the wealthy owners of capital will let it happen when there's a killing frost in downtown Hades.
In their view it's better to place the burden on corporations, who will pass some of it on to consumers, than to have to pay it out of the profits they keep.
 
2014-08-13 05:51:48 AM  
We will see Capitalism to its end-game. Rather than "trickle down" it was become a "vaccuum up" as corporations sociopathically extract as much wealth as they can from the populace and government in order to make a tiny few rich people richer.
 
2014-08-13 05:55:46 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: The media does this with individuals from time to time also: "OMG look how many millionaires aren't paying US income tax!" As if everyone should be paying income taxes in the US regardless of their circumstances.


Well, typically a millionaire is going to have a proportionate income and should be paying taxes, most likely in the highest bracket (so, again, about 40%).  In itself 'millionaire' refers to property, not income, though, in theory they can have dry years like anyone else.

In actuality not so much (apart from some really unlucky ones in 2007 maybe), but in theory, yeah, sure.
 
2014-08-13 05:58:20 AM  

DrPainMD: Lee Jackson Beauregard: DrPainMD: This is what happens when you vote for Demublicans.

Roight, guv.  And the Anarcho-Capitalists Libertarians would do any different.

/Actually they would do different:  no taxes at all for anything with Inc after its name and at least a gigabuck in assets
//I very much doubt you're stumping for Greens or Socialists

Actually, most libertarians are in favor of no income or property taxes. Corporate taxes should be the primary source of government revenue.  either nuts or Republicans embarrassed by the Republican party but who still vote 100% Republican

 
2014-08-13 06:01:18 AM  

Prophet of Loss: We will see Capitalism to its end-game. Rather than "trickle down" it was become a "vaccuum up" as corporations sociopathically extract as much wealth as they can from the populace and government in order to make a tiny few rich people richer.


Capitalism is a wonderful tool for creating wealth.
It makes a really shiatty system for running a society, though.
 
2014-08-13 06:06:50 AM  
I'd really rather we put a tax on stock transactions, increased taxes on capital gains, eliminated the cap on SS and the carried interest loophole, and returned inheritance taxes to reasonable levels than focus on corporate taxes.
 
2014-08-13 06:06:53 AM  

jso2897: Prophet of Loss: We will see Capitalism to its end-game. Rather than "trickle down" it was become a "vaccuum up" as corporations sociopathically extract as much wealth as they can from the populace and government in order to make a tiny few rich people richer.

Capitalism is a wonderful tool for creating wealth.
It makes a really shiatty system for running a society, though.


In 'Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri' I never used the Capitalism economic system, for it pissed off the citizens way too much, and destabilized all my cities.
 
2014-08-13 06:13:24 AM  
Then get rid of it. Clearly it's not doing its purpose, anyway. Drop business taxes entirely and make up the difference by raising taxes on the top bracket and (especially) capital gains.
 
2014-08-13 06:19:29 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: The media does this with individuals from time to time also: "OMG look how many millionaires aren't paying US income tax!" As if everyone should be paying income taxes in the US regardless of their circumstances.

Well, typically a millionaire is going to have a proportionate income and should be paying taxes, most likely in the highest bracket (so, again, about 40%).  In itself 'millionaire' refers to property, not income, though, in theory they can have dry years like anyone else.

In actuality not so much (apart from some really unlucky ones in 2007 maybe), but in theory, yeah, sure.


In reality, many of the high-income/low-tax individuals in question probably reside and earn the bulk of their income outside the US and pay taxes in other jurisdictions where it makes more sense to do so. That's just one obvious question that never seems to get asked by the people writing those pieces (TFA compares favorably).

/yeah, I know what a millionaire is, but the term is used in a lot of those stories to mean $1M/yr earners, so I wrote my paraphrase the same way
 
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