If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(io9)   CIA analyst's study finds intelligence failures leading to 9/11/2001 were basically a repeat from 12/07/1941 and 8/24/1814   (io9.com) divider line 38
    More: Interesting, Francis Scott Key, rational actor, historical documents, enemy force, British  
•       •       •

2409 clicks; posted to Geek » on 12 Aug 2014 at 11:48 PM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



38 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-08-12 08:20:00 PM  
Death to the British Crown! Never Forget!
 
2014-08-12 08:43:29 PM  
It all starts with a very basic mistake, calling it "intelligence".
 
2014-08-12 09:18:05 PM  
Warnings about 9/11 and 12/07 were both ignored because we wanted an excuse for war?

/adjusts tinfoil
 
2014-08-12 10:25:47 PM  
We're not going to change our culture any better than we can change that of Afghanistan.
 
2014-08-12 10:33:09 PM  
It's not a "failure" if there isn't any actionable intelligence for you to, you know, act on.

Pearl Harbor was a perfect example:  We knew the Japanese were going to do something.  We knew the "who", and we had a pretty good idea of "why".  But the "What, where, and when" that you need to know in order to effectively counter the blow wasn't there.

Similarly, knowing that "bin Laden is determined to strike the US" is all well and good, but without actually knowing the "what, where, and when", there isn't a way to stop them.

You can put everybody on full alert to watch for every possible thing all the time.  It just doesn't work like that.
 
2014-08-12 10:46:07 PM  
Brought to you by the same incompetent government that masterminds vast conspiracies of such insidious magnitude that they're never revealed
 
2014-08-12 10:47:34 PM  
This month is the 200th anniversary of the British capture of Washington, DC,

Every farking Canadian hoople-head will claim credit for it though.
 
2014-08-13 12:10:24 AM  

Lsherm: This month is the 200th anniversary of the British capture of Washington, DC,

Every farking Canadian hoople-head will claim credit for it though.


The U.S. twice failed (1775 and 1812) to get the French speaking populace of Canada on ourside during invasions into Canada. Thank God!
 
2014-08-13 12:25:29 AM  
There was no failure. The CIA has been drooling over the possibility of a 9/11-type event for decades. 9/11 was the best thing that ever happened to the CIA.
 
2014-08-13 01:07:12 AM  

DrPainMD: There was no failure. The CIA has been drooling over the possibility of a 9/11-type event for decades. 9/11 was the best thing that ever happened to the CIA.


THIS

There was no "failure of imagination." The bastards knew it was coming alright.
 
2014-08-13 01:09:44 AM  
So they mean it's possible information was overlooked, because probability beat out 'meh we should care' factor?
 
2014-08-13 02:15:20 AM  
www.mises.org.br

You can't be ready for every black swan. Although locking cabins on aircraft 60 years ago might have stopped us from having to go through airport screenings.
 
2014-08-13 02:26:08 AM  
None of those were intelligence failures.

They were all military and executive policy failures. The intelligence community can only pass along as much information as exists. Any action is up to the Department of War (later Department of State), the office of the President (and later, also his National Security Council), and Congress.
 
2014-08-13 02:26:55 AM  

HotWingAgenda: Any action is up to the Department of War (later Department of Defense State)


I blame that on either too much or not enough caffeine.
 
2014-08-13 02:31:07 AM  
Jews did 1812?
 
2014-08-13 02:36:45 AM  

ModernLuddite: Jews did 1812?


Joos. Da Joos did 1812.
 
2014-08-13 03:48:33 AM  

dittybopper: But the "What, where, and when" that you need to know in order to effectively counter the blow wasn't there.

Similarly, knowing that "bin Laden is determined to strike the US" is all well and good, but without actually knowing the "what, where, and when", there isn't a way to stop them.

You can put everybody on full alert to watch for every possible thing all the time. It just doesn't work like that.


keep pharkin' that chicken.jpg
 
2014-08-13 05:47:58 AM  

whither_apophis: Lsherm: This month is the 200th anniversary of the British capture of Washington, DC,

Every farking Canadian hoople-head will claim credit for it though.

The U.S. twice failed (1775 and 1812) to get the French speaking populace of Canada on ourside during invasions into Canada. Thank God!


Not really, the whole bilingualism thing that we have is part of that.
 
2014-08-13 08:00:12 AM  

phillydrifter: dittybopper: But the "What, where, and when" that you need to know in order to effectively counter the blow wasn't there.

Similarly, knowing that "bin Laden is determined to strike the US" is all well and good, but without actually knowing the "what, where, and when", there isn't a way to stop them.

You can put everybody on full alert to watch for every possible thing all the time. It just doesn't work like that.

keep pharkin' that chicken.jpg


My, what an intelligent and pithy come back.  I fully expect your next one will involve rubber and glue.  Well done.
 
2014-08-13 08:46:33 AM  
How did the "interesting" tag knock the "obvious" tag off this one?
 
2014-08-13 09:50:22 AM  
Well, at least we went to war with Iraq and were able to stop 9/11 from happening.
 
2014-08-13 09:55:58 AM  

dittybopper: phillydrifter: dittybopper: But the "What, where, and when" that you need to know in order to effectively counter the blow wasn't there.

Similarly, knowing that "bin Laden is determined to strike the US" is all well and good, but without actually knowing the "what, where, and when", there isn't a way to stop them.

You can put everybody on full alert to watch for every possible thing all the time. It just doesn't work like that.

keep pharkin' that chicken.jpg

My, what an intelligent and pithy come back.  I fully expect your next one will involve rubber and glue.  Well done.


And here is your "it just doesn't work that way. None of this works that way" award.
 
2014-08-13 10:27:44 AM  
That's above the usual quality for i09, thanks subby!

I also enjoyed this (apochryphal) anecdote in the comments:

Fun fact: Despite inflicting the delicious humiliation of British grenadiers eating James Madison's still-warm dinner, the Burning of Washington is almost unremembered in the UK. Supposedly, during WWII, a British general was being given a tour of the Pentagon, and he paused at a painting of the White House in flames: "Good Lord! Was that the Mexicans?!"
-
Uncle Sam: "You don't remember!?"
Britannia: "For you, the day Britannia razed your capital was the most important day of your life, but for me it was...Tuesday."
 
2014-08-13 11:34:47 AM  

rikkards: whither_apophis: Lsherm: This month is the 200th anniversary of the British capture of Washington, DC,

Every farking Canadian hoople-head will claim credit for it though.

The U.S. twice failed (1775 and 1812) to get the French speaking populace of Canada on ourside during invasions into Canada. Thank God!

Not really, the whole bilingualism thing that we have is part of that.


Le tout de bilinguisme que nous avons fait partie de cette.

ftfy
 
2014-08-13 11:34:57 AM  
I think the second date was actually in 1914, not 1814....if we're talking about the assassination in
Sarajevo that led to World War 1.
 
2014-08-13 12:02:05 PM  

StopLurkListen: That's above the usual quality for i09, thanks subby!

I also enjoyed this (apochryphal) anecdote in the comments:

Fun fact: Despite inflicting the delicious humiliation of British grenadiers eating James Madison's still-warm dinner, the Burning of Washington is almost unremembered in the UK. Supposedly, during WWII, a British general was being given a tour of the Pentagon, and he paused at a painting of the White House in flames: "Good Lord! Was that the Mexicans?!"
-
Uncle Sam: "You don't remember!?"
Britannia: "For you, the day Britannia razed your capital was the most important day of your life, but for me it was...Tuesday."


Well, they probably weren't too thrilled about getting their asses handed to them in New Orleans.
 
2014-08-13 12:02:38 PM  

snocone: dittybopper: phillydrifter: dittybopper: But the "What, where, and when" that you need to know in order to effectively counter the blow wasn't there.

Similarly, knowing that "bin Laden is determined to strike the US" is all well and good, but without actually knowing the "what, where, and when", there isn't a way to stop them.

You can put everybody on full alert to watch for every possible thing all the time. It just doesn't work like that.

keep pharkin' that chicken.jpg

My, what an intelligent and pithy come back.  I fully expect your next one will involve rubber and glue.  Well done.

And here is your "it just doesn't work that way. None of this works that way" award.


Except that I said (with a typo) that "You can['t] put everybody on full alert to watch for every possible thing all the time".

That should be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer.

"OK, we know Al Qaeda wants to attack the US:  Put every farkin' government employee on permanent hyper-alert!"

When you do that, everybody is actually alert for a couple days, maybe a week.  And then they fall back into routine.

Do it enough times, and it's meaningless.
 
2014-08-13 12:09:27 PM  

dittybopper: snocone: dittybopper: phillydrifter: dittybopper: But the "What, where, and when" that you need to know in order to effectively counter the blow wasn't there.

Similarly, knowing that "bin Laden is determined to strike the US" is all well and good, but without actually knowing the "what, where, and when", there isn't a way to stop them.

You can put everybody on full alert to watch for every possible thing all the time. It just doesn't work like that.

keep pharkin' that chicken.jpg

My, what an intelligent and pithy come back.  I fully expect your next one will involve rubber and glue.  Well done.

And here is your "it just doesn't work that way. None of this works that way" award.

Except that I said (with a typo) that "You can['t] put everybody on full alert to watch for every possible thing all the time".

That should be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer.

"OK, we know Al Qaeda wants to attack the US:  Put every farkin' government employee on permanent hyper-alert!"

When you do that, everybody is actually alert for a couple days, maybe a week.  And then they fall back into routine.

Do it enough times, and it's meaningless.


Which is the only limiting factor in the fear mongering.
 
2014-08-13 12:21:30 PM  
Billy Mitchell predicted Pearl Harbor after WWI when he saw the value of planes in warfare - even that it would be the Japanese - the military leadership basically told him to STFU and retired him.

So yeah. Failure of imagination. Of you know the Japanese have it out for you, where do you think they'd hit first? Atlanta?!
 
2014-08-13 12:42:12 PM  

Janusdog: Billy Mitchell predicted Pearl Harbor after WWI when he saw the value of planes in warfare - even that it would be the Japanese - the military leadership basically told him to STFU and retired him.

So yeah. Failure of imagination. Of you know the Japanese have it out for you, where do you think they'd hit first? Atlanta?!


Actually, the thinking at the time (prior to 12/7/41) was that the mostly likely place would be the US forces in the Philippines:  They were *MUCH* closer to Japan and much easier logistically for Japan to attack, and they were directly athwart the axis of Japan's reach for the "Southern Resource Area".

It's perfectly logical, and in the absence of pretty much any solid information indicating Pearl Harbor was the intended target, an easy leap to make.

Especially considering that all indications were that their carriers were in Japanese waters.
 
2014-08-13 12:49:31 PM  
I'd like to see "intelligence" prevent the retaking of the Colonies by the Commonwealth. No amount of "analysis" can predict the whim of Her Majesty the Queen.
 
2014-08-13 12:58:24 PM  

Lsherm: This month is the 200th anniversary of the British capture of Washington, DC,

Every farking Canadian hoople-head will claim credit for it though.


They will have good company with those Americans who claim they won the war
 
2014-08-13 01:52:15 PM  

Janusdog: Billy Mitchell predicted Pearl Harbor after WWI when he saw the value of planes in warfare - even that it would be the Japanese - the military leadership basically told him to STFU and retired him.

So yeah. Failure of imagination. Of you know the Japanese have it out for you, where do you think they'd hit first? Atlanta?!


Winged Defense(1925):  He predicted that the Hawaiian Islands would be attacked during a war with Japan by Japanese land-based aircraft once they could be based close enough.  They would not use aircraft carriers because they weren't efficient enough to operate that far from Japan and couldn't provide enough air power.  Ergo, don't worry about Japanese aircraft carriers and keep their bases far from Hawaii.

So, no, he did not predict the Dec 7th attack.  In fact, he specifically stated that the attack that did historically occur could not occur.
 
2014-08-13 03:10:25 PM  
And this is why you fail. But hey, we all got some good tunes out of it.
 
2014-08-13 09:58:07 PM  

Norfolking Chance: Lsherm: This month is the 200th anniversary of the British capture of Washington, DC,

Every farking Canadian hoople-head will claim credit for it though.

They will have good company with those Americans who claim they won the war


Capturing an evacuated city don't mean nothin' if you don't keep it.
 
2014-08-13 10:05:04 PM  

snocone: dittybopper: snocone: dittybopper: phillydrifter: dittybopper: But the "What, where, and when" that you need to know in order to effectively counter the blow wasn't there.

Similarly, knowing that "bin Laden is determined to strike the US" is all well and good, but without actually knowing the "what, where, and when", there isn't a way to stop them.

You can put everybody on full alert to watch for every possible thing all the time. It just doesn't work like that.

keep pharkin' that chicken.jpg

My, what an intelligent and pithy come back.  I fully expect your next one will involve rubber and glue.  Well done.

And here is your "it just doesn't work that way. None of this works that way" award.

Except that I said (with a typo) that "You can['t] put everybody on full alert to watch for every possible thing all the time".

That should be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer.

"OK, we know Al Qaeda wants to attack the US:  Put every farkin' government employee on permanent hyper-alert!"

When you do that, everybody is actually alert for a couple days, maybe a week.  And then they fall back into routine.

Do it enough times, and it's meaningless.

Which is the only limiting factor in the fear mongering.


Fear mongering or not, a non-specific, vague intelligence estimate 3 weeks in advance really doesn't do much for you in practical terms.
 
2014-08-14 02:59:51 AM  
Some guys are sounding more like the fat dykezilla rosie o donnell.  There may be intelligence failures to prevent  9/11 from happening, but saying the warnings were purposefully ignored  is stupid and is bullshiat with no hard concrete evidence to support it.
 
2014-08-14 10:09:40 AM  

Warmnight: Some guys are sounding more like the fat dykezilla rosie o donnell.  There may be intelligence failures to prevent  9/11 from happening, but saying the warnings were purposefully ignored  is stupid and is bullshiat with no hard concrete evidence to support it.


Ummmm... wrong.
 
Displayed 38 of 38 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report