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(The New York Times)   The Atlantic City plan for success. Step 1: Build a $2.4 billion dollar casino. Step 2: Lose $1 billion over the next two years. Step 3: Close   (dealbook.nytimes.com) divider line 45
    More: Sad, Morgan Stanley, Atlantic City, revelations, resorts  
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1290 clicks; posted to Business » on 12 Aug 2014 at 7:35 PM (5 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



45 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-08-12 05:27:54 PM
I enjoy AC, and while it was never anything great, its sad to see it really tank like this.

Their problem is their location. You only have 3 or so good months out of the year where it is of any advantage to you at all. Every other month it works against you.

Likewise they can't draw the weekend crowds from NYC and Philly with money without being upscale, yet at the same time, those places are empty on every monday-thursday.

Revel attempted to break that mold, and I thought it had a shot, by not compromising. Be a destination in itself. It was working for borgota when they built the joint.

I think you need a few places to go under, a couple of casinos to become the divey places that cater to the slot folks, and then 2 or 3 high end joints that cater to everyone else.
 
2014-08-12 05:50:05 PM

LineNoise: I enjoy AC, and while it was never anything great, its sad to see it really tank like this.

Their problem is their location. You only have 3 or so good months out of the year where it is of any advantage to you at all. Every other month it works against you.

Likewise they can't draw the weekend crowds from NYC and Philly with money without being upscale, yet at the same time, those places are empty on every monday-thursday.

Revel attempted to break that mold, and I thought it had a shot, by not compromising. Be a destination in itself. It was working for borgota when they built the joint.

I think you need a few places to go under, a couple of casinos to become the divey places that cater to the slot folks, and then 2 or 3 high end joints that cater to everyone else.


When I lived in DE I'd head to AC with friends from time to time.  I went to the Borgata shortly after it had opened, and it seemed nice.  We usually chose to stay at the Sands though since they always had nice deals for decent rooms, and usually did our gambling at Caesar's.
 
2014-08-12 06:07:20 PM

TuteTibiImperes: When I lived in DE I'd head to AC with friends from time to time.  I went to the Borgata shortly after it had opened, and it seemed nice.  We usually chose to stay at the Sands though since they always had nice deals for decent rooms, and usually did our gambling at Caesar's.


Borgota is/was nice, but the weekend crowd there can be a little vinnie and tony, and their friends tony and tony,  if you know what I mean. I always did most of my gambling in ceasers too. When things took a bad turn, you could always just play the dumb wheel they had outside planet hollywood.

Claridge was also fun for really cheap craps.

Most places do gangbusters on weekends, especially in the summer, so it isn't like, "hey, lets pop on down to A/C!" when I know I'm going to be out a few hundred for a room, and table minimums are $20 easy, even on craps. That is an expensive night.

At the same time, the place is depressing as shiat on weekdays, so it isn't like I'm going to go, "hey, lets head on down to A/C because I can get a free room, and we can watch the guy next to me lose his welfare money on the $5 blackjack table"
 
2014-08-12 06:40:40 PM

LineNoise: I enjoy AC, and while it was never anything great, its sad to see it really tank like this.

Their problem is their location. You only have 3 or so good months out of the year where it is of any advantage to you at all. Every other month it works against you.

Likewise they can't draw the weekend crowds from NYC and Philly with money without being upscale, yet at the same time, those places are empty on every monday-thursday.

Revel attempted to break that mold, and I thought it had a shot, by not compromising. Be a destination in itself. It was working for borgota when they built the joint.

I think you need a few places to go under, a couple of casinos to become the divey places that cater to the slot folks, and then 2 or 3 high end joints that cater to everyone else.


I'm from Atlantic City. This whole thing is hitting the livelihood of family and friends hard.
 
2014-08-12 06:57:55 PM

LineNoise: TuteTibiImperes: When I lived in DE I'd head to AC with friends from time to time.  I went to the Borgata shortly after it had opened, and it seemed nice.  We usually chose to stay at the Sands though since they always had nice deals for decent rooms, and usually did our gambling at Caesar's.

Borgota is/was nice, but the weekend crowd there can be a little vinnie and tony, and their friends tony and tony,  if you know what I mean. I always did most of my gambling in ceasers too. When things took a bad turn, you could always just play the dumb wheel they had outside planet hollywood.

Claridge was also fun for really cheap craps.

Most places do gangbusters on weekends, especially in the summer, so it isn't like, "hey, lets pop on down to A/C!" when I know I'm going to be out a few hundred for a room, and table minimums are $20 easy, even on craps. That is an expensive night.

At the same time, the place is depressing as shiat on weekdays, so it isn't like I'm going to go, "hey, lets head on down to A/C because I can get a free room, and we can watch the guy next to me lose his welfare money on the $5 blackjack table"


I know what you mean, the Borgata suffered a bit from being the 'it' place and attracting the loud 'I want to be seen' crowd.

The Sands and Claridges casinos always felt a bit claustrophobic to me, the Trump Plaza was (is?) rundown and showing its age, and Bally's always seemed to have a senior citizen crowd.

Caesar's always struck the balance between being upscale and approachable, and I liked how open and airy the main table game area was.  I seem to remember them having $10 table games on the weekends, but it was also at least ten years since I've been.

AC seemed to die later in the day though, I never felt like it had the 24 hour constant barrage of activity that Vegas supposedly has (never been to Vegas).
 
2014-08-12 07:20:49 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Caesar's always struck the balance between being upscale and approachable, and I liked how open and airy the main table game area was.  I seem to remember them having $10 table games on the weekends, but it was also at least ten years since I've been.

AC seemed to die later in the day though, I never felt like it had the 24 hour constant barrage of activity that Vegas supposedly has (never been to Vegas).


Yea, back in the late 90s, even early 2000's, ceasers was approachable on the weekends even, where you could find a cheep table. I don't gamble to make money, I gamble to have fun, so its pretty easy to price me out. However, I'll make up for it at the bar, restaurant, and my wife will run up a shopping and spa bill that will make many small countries blush.

there is something there, gambling has to be part of it, because if I'm out solely for a good dinner, or drinks, or my wife wants to hit the spa or shop, we don't need to drive 3 hours to do it, and in a manner that is below what we get just by walking out my front door. Going high end won't work. They simply won't draw the crowds. Low end won't work either, because of closer places to the slot ladies and the fact that your average south jersey resident is lucky to have 2 nickels to rub together, and doing so will push any real money away.

Its almost like they need one super resort, that is luxury, could be year round, keeps the riff raff out, has good shopping, restraunts, etc. Right now everyone is just fighting to be the last guy standing, would be nice to see some cooperation.

I'm out in vegas a few times a year for work, and while its more lively at any hour, it really depends where you are. Vegas has done a good job in defining distinct markets for every casino. In a/c its like everyone is desperate to get you in.
 
2014-08-12 07:47:43 PM
AC used to be the only game in town.

Now You can probably go 50 miles in any direction from anywhere in the tri state area and find a casino.
 
2014-08-12 07:50:39 PM
I live in the area, and Revel closing will cost the community 3100 jobs.  And Trump Plaza is closing too.  Overall we expect over 7000 jobs to be lost.

So much for me selling my house any time soon.

The thing is, many employees with skills (dealers, hosts, managers, executives) will leave the area and move to a new job with another casino in another town.  The less skilled, lower-paid employees (cleaning staff, maintenance) will simply be out of a job, with no new ones opening, and little opportunity to move.  It's going to hurt my community a lot.
 
2014-08-12 07:50:41 PM
AC is the shiathole of a shiathole state.  When I was there I was astounded by the ghettos standing in the shadows of the casinos.
 
2014-08-12 07:55:11 PM
Stayed a few nights in the Revel resort a couple of years ago over my birthday weekend with some friends, it was nice.  Had a great steakhouse in the restaurant too.  I would have gone back next time I was in Atlantic City.  Particularly liked their pool.

Too bad, I've always had a fondness for Atlantic City in all its seedy and faded glory.
 
2014-08-12 07:56:00 PM

TuteTibiImperes: AC seemed to die later in the day though, I never felt like it had the 24 hour constant barrage of activity that Vegas supposedly has (never been to Vegas).


Never been to AC, but yeah, Vegas tends to have shiat going on all day. The crowd tends to change throughout the day, too. During the day, it's mostly the retired and middle-aged crowd, but when the sun goes down, the younger, club-going crowd comes out. Vegas also benefits from not really having a whole lot of weather issues (other than the fact that it gets retarded hot in the summer).
 
2014-08-12 08:04:57 PM

The fun part is realizing that this is yet another one of Chris Christie's abject failures.

 
2014-08-12 08:05:15 PM

LineNoise: Borgota is/was nice,


Their mattresses are AWESOME. I've never had a better night's sleep before or since. They actually sell them in their online store!
 
2014-08-12 08:10:08 PM
It should have been obvious to anyone with a newspaper that casinos are popping up everywhere.  Despite this, New Jersey decided to double-down on being a one business town rather than trying to diversify.  Investing all that money in Revel was foolish (although I'm sure if you follow the money you'll find some greased palms among Christie's close associates).
 
2014-08-12 08:21:41 PM

FormlessOne: The fun part is realizing that this is yet another one of Chris Christie's abject failures.


This is a plain old New Jersey failure. Nothing was going to save Atlantic City once they lost the monopoly on Northeast casinos.
 
2014-08-12 08:27:24 PM
Don't worry folks, they are planning to build a Bass Pro Shops off the boardwalk....that will solve everything!
/s
/Why?????
 
2014-08-12 08:35:19 PM
I get casinos. I like Las Vegas & Atlantic City. They're fun places to visit. Plenty of good times.

But I never really got gambling. You look at these opulent buildings and their surrounding buffoonery and most logical & intelligent people say "These places weren't built on us winning. I'm gonna keep my cash close at hand."

Sure, you can have a great time playing the come line on a ten buck craps table. It's arguably the most fun & prolonged way to lose your money. And some people like slots (dumbest game even chimps can play) but, again, the smart people limit themselves and take in the atmosphere & freak show circus that a casino provides.

But going to a casino thinking you're going to hit some big payout money?  Very rarely happens. So either people have run out of that kind of disposable cash or have collectively become more intelligent since 2008.

/I'm betting on the former. Good luck Atlantic City, you stank-assed festering fark hole.
 
2014-08-12 08:38:32 PM
My brother and I took a mental health vacation there a few years ago. Promises of good priced rooms, great food and a fun time.

We got there and the room had been overbooked, so they tried to up-sell us to a 300$/night suite with no discount, ended up sleeping at the Boardwalk Super 8, which sounds about as nice as it was. The whole casino area was separated by giant ghettos. Now I'm from Brooklyn, I've seen desperately poor people living in tremendously tough circumstances. but this town's ghettos looked ROUGH. As in "I don't really want to leave my motel room" tough. Nothing was open after 9 PM except for the casinos. Shows were insanely expensive (we lucked out - they were holding hockey games at Boardwalk hall, which despite being a lousy venue at least was cheap, and hey, it was hockey, how bad can it be?). The casinos were exactly as I've seen at Mohegan Sun. Same games, same layouts.  Food was expensive and not exceptional. And they made us pay for parking, which boggled my brother who has never been charged for it at a gambling establishment before.

I didn't HATE the trip, except for the hotel, but the whole place gave me no vibes I'd like to return. Can't wait for the Catskills casino to open up in a few years. I like just mindlessly doing some slots or playing some poker. I can get 100$ to burn easily, and I don't mind paying for a comfortable room and some food. But they need to be clean and nice. What I saw at AC was not either.
 
2014-08-12 08:45:54 PM
Well, SOMEONE made a bunch of money, anyhow.
 
2014-08-12 08:48:47 PM

Slayinit: I get casinos. I like Las Vegas & Atlantic City. They're fun places to visit. Plenty of good times.

But I never really got gambling. You look at these opulent buildings and their surrounding buffoonery and most logical & intelligent people say "These places weren't built on us winning. I'm gonna keep my cash close at hand."

Sure, you can have a great time playing the come line on a ten buck craps table. It's arguably the most fun & prolonged way to lose your money. And some people like slots (dumbest game even chimps can play) but, again, the smart people limit themselves and take in the atmosphere & freak show circus that a casino provides.

But going to a casino thinking you're going to hit some big payout money?  Very rarely happens. So either people have run out of that kind of disposable cash or have collectively become more intelligent since 2008.

/I'm betting on the former. Good luck Atlantic City, you stank-assed festering fark hole.


I feel the same way regarding the gambling.  I'll play some $10 craps, maybe a few hands of blackjack, and drink as many free gin and tonics as the waitresses will bring me, but I always set an amount I'm willing to lose beforehand, as well as an 'if I'm up by this much, it's time to quit while you're ahead' limit.

I usually ended up leaving with about as much money as I started with, and was able to pay for the gas/hotel/food with winnings a few times.
 
2014-08-12 08:51:45 PM
Take a bow, Governor.
 
2014-08-12 08:51:58 PM

Giltric: AC used to be the only game in town.

Now You can probably go 50 miles in any direction from anywhere in the tri state area and find a casino.


This is the big problem. Once reservations casinos became a thing (and in turn became the wedge that opened up more states to legal casinos), AC was doomed. They always survived by being the gambling that was closer than Las Vegas, even if it wasn't as nice. Now if you want close gambling most cities have it: I live in DC and can think of 5 casinos (counting a couple under construction) I'd pass on my way to Atlantic City, ranging from low-end to upscale.

If I want a party weekend with glamorous cachet, I'll fly to Vegas. If I just want to spend an evening playing some games, then I can do that here. Atlantic City is the middle ground in an industry that doesn't need one.
 
2014-08-12 09:00:19 PM
It all started to go downhill after they whacked Bruno...
 
2014-08-12 09:03:07 PM
Subby forgot the step where you ask for, and receive, a large bail-out from the state. Which merely delayed the inevitable, while wasting funds that could have been used for something useful - like balancing the budget.
 
2014-08-12 09:17:05 PM

Joe_diGriz: Subby forgot the step where you ask for, and receive, a large bail-out from the state. Which merely delayed the inevitable, while wasting funds that could have been used for something useful - like balancing the budget.


How much was the bailout?
 
2014-08-12 09:24:50 PM
Since the hard rock was built in east Tulsa and the river spirit was built on riverside dr.  I've had no reason or want to go to either Vegas or A/C.
 
2014-08-12 09:25:41 PM

Giltric: Joe_diGriz: Subby forgot the step where you ask for, and receive, a large bail-out from the state. Which merely delayed the inevitable, while wasting funds that could have been used for something useful - like balancing the budget.

How much was the bailout?


I read it was half a solyndra.
 
2014-08-12 09:29:23 PM
NJ native.  In my 20s, worked for companies providing services to most of the big-name casinos in AC (plus others elsewhere).  Actually physically set foot in the Taj once or twice, visiting a VP there.  Seeing where my paycheck was coming from really soured me on it all.  (The VP bailed and became a schoolteacher, too.) I don't think much of value would be lost if all the barrier islands down the shore were "redeveloped" as an extension of Island Beach State Park.
 
2014-08-12 09:36:39 PM
Thats_right_ALL_the_tea: If I want a party weekend with glamorous cachet, I'll fly to Vegas.

Holy shiate.  Thanks for the laugh.
 
2014-08-12 09:36:56 PM

FormlessOne: The fun part is realizing that this is yet another one of Chris Christie's abject failures.


Dammit, Christie!

Why did you open all those casinos in neighboring states?
 
2014-08-12 09:47:08 PM

BMFPitt: FormlessOne: The fun part is realizing that this is yet another one of Chris Christie's abject failures.

Dammit, Christie!

Why did you open all those casinos in neighboring states?


He spent $1 billion of taxpayer money on this particular casino.
 
2014-08-12 09:59:07 PM

Verrai: BMFPitt: FormlessOne: The fun part is realizing that this is yet another one of Chris Christie's abject failures.

Dammit, Christie!

Why did you open all those casinos in neighboring states?

He spent $1 billion of taxpayer money on this particular casino.


How did I miss that?

OK, so now I want to hit him with a rolled up newspaper and teach him to stop giving out corporate welfare.
 
2014-08-12 10:01:47 PM

gfid: AC is the shiathole of a shiathole state.  When I was there I was astounded by the ghettos standing in the shadows of the casinos.


I was astounded by what appeared to be 16 yo gangstas driving around in Excaliburs. I'm still astounded by that.
 
2014-08-12 10:11:27 PM

BMFPitt: Verrai: BMFPitt: FormlessOne: The fun part is realizing that this is yet another one of Chris Christie's abject failures.

Dammit, Christie!

Why did you open all those casinos in neighboring states?

He spent $1 billion of taxpayer money on this particular casino.

How did I miss that?

OK, so now I want to hit him with a rolled up newspaper and teach him to stop giving out corporate welfare.


wow, that's two solyndra's.    On state taxes, not spread out of 50 states and territories.

/responsible republican governing
 
2014-08-12 10:38:39 PM

BMFPitt: Verrai: BMFPitt: FormlessOne: The fun part is realizing that this is yet another one of Chris Christie's abject failures.

Dammit, Christie!

Why did you open all those casinos in neighboring states?

He spent $1 billion of taxpayer money on this particular casino.

How did I miss that?

OK, so now I want to hit him with a rolled up newspaper and teach him to stop giving out corporate welfare.


As I understand it the money provided to Reval was in the form of a tax abatement over the next 20 years.

Since they went out of business, they never had/will have the sales and income to be taxed, so there will be no abatement.

In other words, your outrage is over nothing.
 
2014-08-12 10:44:55 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: BMFPitt: Verrai: BMFPitt: FormlessOne: The fun part is realizing that this is yet another one of Chris Christie's abject failures.

Dammit, Christie!

Why did you open all those casinos in neighboring states?

He spent $1 billion of taxpayer money on this particular casino.

How did I miss that?

OK, so now I want to hit him with a rolled up newspaper and teach him to stop giving out corporate welfare.

As I understand it the money provided to Reval was in the form of a tax abatement over the next 20 years.

Since they went out of business, they never had/will have the sales and income to be taxed, so there will be no abatement.

In other words, your outrage is over nothing.


Why should I not be outraged because he failed to steal my money due to his incompetence?
 
2014-08-12 10:50:09 PM

BMFPitt: Debeo Summa Credo: BMFPitt: Verrai: BMFPitt: FormlessOne: The fun part is realizing that this is yet another one of Chris Christie's abject failures.

Dammit, Christie!

Why did you open all those casinos in neighboring states?

He spent $1 billion of taxpayer money on this particular casino.

How did I miss that?

OK, so now I want to hit him with a rolled up newspaper and teach him to stop giving out corporate welfare.

As I understand it the money provided to Reval was in the form of a tax abatement over the next 20 years.

Since they went out of business, they never had/will have the sales and income to be taxed, so there will be no abatement.

In other words, your outrage is over nothing.

Why should I not be outraged because he failed to steal my money due to his incompetence?


Facepalm. He didn't steal your money. He attempted to raise revenue by offering an incentive for the casino to open there/stay open, by giving them a discount on future tax revenue. Somewhat of a no lose proposition.
 
2014-08-12 11:11:09 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: BMFPitt: Debeo Summa Credo: BMFPitt: Verrai: BMFPitt: FormlessOne: The fun part is realizing that this is yet another one of Chris Christie's abject failures.

Dammit, Christie!

Why did you open all those casinos in neighboring states?

He spent $1 billion of taxpayer money on this particular casino.

How did I miss that?

OK, so now I want to hit him with a rolled up newspaper and teach him to stop giving out corporate welfare.

As I understand it the money provided to Reval was in the form of a tax abatement over the next 20 years.

Since they went out of business, they never had/will have the sales and income to be taxed, so there will be no abatement.

In other words, your outrage is over nothing.

Why should I not be outraged because he failed to steal my money due to his incompetence?

Facepalm. He didn't steal your money. He attempted to raise revenue by offering an incentive for the casino to open there/stay open, by giving them a discount on future tax revenue. Somewhat of a no lose proposition.


So  I should be outraged that Christie cut programs in future budgets in order to finance a failed casino.
 
2014-08-12 11:21:31 PM
It;s a shame Atlantic City lost the monopoly on gambling. Not that it was any great shakes, but because Pennsylvania's legalization of gambling has been one set of lies after another. First it was the "legalize slots, it will provide property tax relief" thing, then it was "slots aren't making us enough so let's do table games", and THEN it was "we're still short, so let's legalize small games of chance at bars but price the permit out of sight so nobody goes for it".

In the meantime, no property tax relief, we've got casinos a short distance from everywhere, somebody's making a fortune but it's not us, it's a corrupt, disease-ridden industry that dirties everything it touches, and now we have tons of people with gambling problems who didn't exist before. How does a state with full-service casinos turning profits that didn't exist a decade ago have such a massive budget shortfall?

We should have left that for Jersey to deal with. We didn't need it here. Jersey's corruption long ago snuck across the border to Philadelphia. We should have left it trapped there and focused on containing the rest to Harrisburg and the Philly sycophants in the government.
 
2014-08-12 11:22:35 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: He didn't steal your money.


As I said, he failed in his attempt to steal it.

He attempted to raise revenue by offering an incentive for the casino to open there/stay open, by giving them a discount on future tax revenue. Somewhat of a no lose proposition.

It appears as though we lost.

And even if he had successfully given the money away, it still means the rest of the state has to pick up the tab.
 
2014-08-12 11:24:26 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Debeo Summa Credo: BMFPitt: Debeo Summa Credo: BMFPitt: Verrai: BMFPitt: FormlessOne: The fun part is realizing that this is yet another one of Chris Christie's abject failures.

Dammit, Christie!

Why did you open all those casinos in neighboring states?

He spent $1 billion of taxpayer money on this particular casino.

How did I miss that?

OK, so now I want to hit him with a rolled up newspaper and teach him to stop giving out corporate welfare.

As I understand it the money provided to Reval was in the form of a tax abatement over the next 20 years.

Since they went out of business, they never had/will have the sales and income to be taxed, so there will be no abatement.

In other words, your outrage is over nothing.

Why should I not be outraged because he failed to steal my money due to his incompetence?

Facepalm. He didn't steal your money. He attempted to raise revenue by offering an incentive for the casino to open there/stay open, by giving them a discount on future tax revenue. Somewhat of a no lose proposition.

So  I should be outraged that Christie cut programs in future budgets in order to finance a failed casino.


Once again you misunderstand. If this had worked (the tax abatement)and revel had existed for 20 years, overall tax revenues would have been greater than if revel did not exist. In other words there would have been more money for programs in future budgets.

As it happened, revel failed. But since the tax abatements were to come out of future tax revenue, no tax abatements were received by revel. So you have nothing to whine about. Not that that's ever stopped you.
 
2014-08-12 11:35:55 PM
So what happens to the building(s)?
 
2014-08-13 02:10:11 AM

JolobinSmokin: Giltric: Joe_diGriz: Subby forgot the step where you ask for, and receive, a large bail-out from the state. Which merely delayed the inevitable, while wasting funds that could have been used for something useful - like balancing the budget.

How much was the bailout?

I read it was half a solyndra.


10 gajillion?

No wonder the state has a budget shortfall.
 
2014-08-13 09:11:48 AM
For those trying to throw christie under the bus:

It isn't like the state reached into their bank account and said, "Hey, here is a check for X amount of dollars"

The "bailout" (and bailout in these cases is probably the worst word to use) was in the form of tax credits. Basically, "hey, we are going to give you a break on the future money you MIGHT earn if you push through on this thing" Basically it makes it so the casino can be more profitable, which could get other investors on board to complete it.

Without it the place never would have opened, and you would have lost the money that the area made during its construction, 2 years of employing a few thousand people, etc.

Had this place actually succeeded and started raking in money hand over fist, there might be a reason to get pissed and say, "why did we give them so much in tax breaks when this place is a gold mine"

As for the states turnaround plan for A/C, it is......complicated. The state really couldn't do nothing, because then they would be called out for letting a poor city go under. A/C is a shiatty ass place, and if the casinos go, its going to sink to camden like levels, maybe even further. Also a failing a/c means that there will be traction for a casino in the meadowlands (which is an eventuality), which brings with it a whole bunch of other issues. Most of North Jersey wants nothing to do with a casino there. It will open questions up on sports betting. It will open up questions on casinos in other areas.

The A/C recovery plan was also a way to unhitch the horse tracks from being reliant on the casino's, which is a whole other story, and a way to introduce legalized online betting in the state. Both of those efforts have been relatively successful.

In short, everyone knew the greater overall plan will\would fail, but doing nothing would have pushed the failure up. This was essentially the state punting to give it time to sort things out, and doing so by not taxing money they wouldn't have gotten anyway had they did nothing.

I like to gamble, but I'm really not a fan of easy access to casinos because of the social toll they place on the lower classes. At the same time, if everyone else around you is doing it, and you are losing money from your state to the guy a few miles down the road, what the hell else are you supposed to do?
 
2014-08-13 03:02:20 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: It;s a shame Atlantic City lost the monopoly on gambling. Not that it was any great shakes, but because Pennsylvania's legalization of gambling has been one set of lies after another. First it was the "legalize slots, it will provide property tax relief" thing, then it was "slots aren't making us enough so let's do table games", and THEN it was "we're still short, so let's legalize small games of chance at bars but price the permit out of sight so nobody goes for it".

In the meantime, no property tax relief, we've got casinos a short distance from everywhere, somebody's making a fortune but it's not us, it's a corrupt, disease-ridden industry that dirties everything it touches, and now we have tons of people with gambling problems who didn't exist before. How does a state with full-service casinos turning profits that didn't exist a decade ago have such a massive budget shortfall?

We should have left that for Jersey to deal with. We didn't need it here. Jersey's corruption long ago snuck across the border to Philadelphia. We should have left it trapped there and focused on containing the rest to Harrisburg and the Philly sycophants in the government.


Even when AC had the monopoly for 20 or so years it was supposed to provide that same tax relief to the people of NJ but they still pay close to if not the highest state and local taxes in the country. The AC education system is the poster child for how nobody benefits from casinos outside of the owners. Any money the state made was siphoned off by its inept politicians.
 
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