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(The Verge)   XBox execs now acting as though killing the always-on Kinect feature was their idea all along   (theverge.com) divider line 86
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2619 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 12 Aug 2014 at 2:32 PM (15 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-12 11:34:51 AM  
In before rabid Sonybros demonstrating the behavior that cheapens us all.

Also, in before idiotic "PC master race" tools who will never know the joy of playing Mario Kart without resorting to illegal means.

And if I see one of you claim to not even OWN a television...
 
2014-08-12 11:39:21 AM  
It's Xbox.  Not XBox.

/just sayin'
 
2014-08-12 11:39:23 AM  

Saborlas: And if I see one of you claim to not even OWN a television...


I have a projector that projects a 100 inch image on my bedroom wall. Is that hipster enough?
 
2014-08-12 12:24:10 PM  
I don't know much about video game stuff but maybe they knew this Kinect thing was going to be a bust from the beginning but decided to bundle it at the beginning anyway to squeeze a few more bucks out of early adopters who we all know will buy anything.

I mean you don't have to be a marketing genius to know that video game people don't want to exercise while gaming.
 
2014-08-12 01:10:10 PM  

Mugato: I don't know much about video game stuff but maybe they knew this Kinect thing was going to be a bust from the beginning but decided to bundle it at the beginning anyway to squeeze a few more bucks out of early adopters who we all know will buy anything.

I mean you don't have to be a marketing genius to know that video game people don't want to exercise while gaming.


The main selling point had been the hands free interaction with the interface.  That was a big focus of their E3 presentation, how easy it was to control TV, and switch between TV/Games/Streaming using your voice via Kinect.
 
2014-08-12 01:31:14 PM  
i1245.photobucket.com
 
2014-08-12 02:36:46 PM  

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Mugato: I don't know much about video game stuff but maybe they knew this Kinect thing was going to be a bust from the beginning but decided to bundle it at the beginning anyway to squeeze a few more bucks out of early adopters who we all know will buy anything.

I mean you don't have to be a marketing genius to know that video game people don't want to exercise while gaming.

The main selling point had been the hands free interaction with the interface.  That was a big focus of their E3 presentation, how easy it was to control TV, and switch between TV/Games/Streaming using your voice via Kinect.


Notice how all of the stupid shiat they hyped up at E3 last year started disappearing once Mattrick left?

I can't help but wonder how much of a hand he had in it being there in the first place...
 
2014-08-12 02:37:00 PM  
My understanding is that the mandatory Kinect and all the pay-walls were actually Don Mattrick's fault.

He was supposedly the one pushing all this crap.

Didn't even Major Nelson say something about how he was hurting the XBox brand after the whole E3 foul-up?
 
2014-08-12 02:37:50 PM  

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Mugato: I don't know much about video game stuff but maybe they knew this Kinect thing was going to be a bust from the beginning but decided to bundle it at the beginning anyway to squeeze a few more bucks out of early adopters who we all know will buy anything.

I mean you don't have to be a marketing genius to know that video game people don't want to exercise while gaming.

The main selling point had been the hands free interaction with the interface.  That was a big focus of their E3 presentation, how easy it was to control TV, and switch between TV/Games/Streaming using your voice via Kinect.


Hands free interaction works sort of, almost.  Voice interaction is a joke.  It doesn't understand anything most of the time and frequency misfires on normal speech. Last night, my son said "Hit the 'X' button" and the Xbox pause. I can't believe the XBone is such a mess.
 
2014-08-12 02:41:30 PM  

Saborlas: And if I see one of you claim to not even OWN a television...


*raises hand*
 
2014-08-12 02:46:22 PM  

Saborlas: In before rabid Sonybros demonstrating the behavior that cheapens us all.

Also, in before idiotic "PC master race" tools who will never know the joy of playing Mario Kart without resorting to illegal means.

And if I see one of you claim to not even OWN a television...


I own a television, that I use as a large HD monitor for our computer. We run dvds and blu-rays through that, as well as netflix, amazon prime, etc... but we don't have over the air TV or cable (who needs it?)

Is that hipster enough?
 
2014-08-12 02:50:40 PM  

Glitchwerks: My understanding is that the mandatory Kinect and all the pay-walls were actually Don Mattrick's fault.


Doesn't he look like he has the interest of gamers on his mind?
cdn3.vox-cdn.com

// he went over to Zynga, go figure.

Meanwhile, Phil Spencer
v.cdn.cad-comic.com
 
2014-08-12 02:53:46 PM  
For what it's worth (admittedly not much), I had long told myself that if I were going to get a new console, it would be a Kinect-less XB1.  It wasn't so much about the privacy concerns (which I think are kind of silly, personally), it was more the idea that my 360 had done me solid for over half a decade without a Kinect, so if it saved me a hundred bucks, I would be fine without it.

Well, last week I found a flash deal on Newegg for an XB1 Kinect bundle and two free games for $400 out the door (essentially around $200 in freebies), so I figured why not, and pulled the trigger.  Since then, I have become a fully converted Kinect lover.  I use the voice and motion commands for everything around console navigation, it works wonders for pausing, fastfwding, rewinding, etc with AMZN Prime, works well with search functions, the whole bit.  I'll go whole sessions with the thing without even touching a remote or controller.  Hell, even my girlfriend thinks it's the coolest thing and insists that she be allowed to talk to the Xbox when we're sitting down to watch something, whereas she used to roll her eyes every time I used by 360 and claimed to be allergic to the controller.

Just my two cents, but I'm really glad I ended up with a Kinect bundle.  It's made the whole experience much better, IMHO, and I think the extent of the applications of the thing are still largely yet to be realized.
 
2014-08-12 02:55:04 PM  

Clutch2013: Notice how all of the stupid shiat they hyped up at E3 last year started disappearing once Mattrick left?


Glitchwerks: y understanding is that the mandatory Kinect and all the pay-walls were actually Don Mattrick's fault.


cdn.ientry.com

Mandatory for any thread mentioning that dumbfark Mattrick
 
2014-08-12 03:00:05 PM  

Saborlas: In before rabid Sonybros demonstrating the behavior that cheapens us all.

Also, in before idiotic "PC master race" tools who will never know the joy of playing Mario Kart without resorting to illegal means.

And if I see one of you claim to not even OWN a television...


I think the distinction between a TV or monitor or even a projector has blurred enough that only someone who only owns a laptop could say that. Of course, that laptop is probably used to watch TV media, so even that is doubtful.
 
2014-08-12 03:04:03 PM  

jchuffyman: I think the distinction between a TV or monitor or even a projector has blurred enough that only someone who only owns a laptop could say that. Of course, that laptop is probably used to watch TV media, so even that is doubtful.


We got rid of cable/dish service awhile ago, but I'm quick to point out "I don't OWN cable" as opposed to "I don't WATCH cable", since most of what is watched via Hulu Plus, Netflix, etc is in fact cable programming.

/my bowl of nits
//please pick from them
 
2014-08-12 03:06:27 PM  

Killer Cars: jchuffyman: I think the distinction between a TV or monitor or even a projector has blurred enough that only someone who only owns a laptop could say that. Of course, that laptop is probably used to watch TV media, so even that is doubtful.

We got rid of cable/dish service awhile ago, but I'm quick to point out "I don't OWN cable" as opposed to "I don't WATCH cable", since most of what is watched via Hulu Plus, Netflix, etc is in fact cable programming.

/my bowl of nits
//please pick from them


Nope, no nits to pick from me with that. I always see "I don't even own a TV" as being a statement of never watching the programming ,which would be dumb, because TV now is probably better than it has ever been.
 
2014-08-12 03:08:45 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-08-12 03:13:01 PM  

jchuffyman: TV now is probably better than it has ever been.


Not for me it's not (sci-fi shows get killed too quick and decent sci-fi shows are few and far between).
 
2014-08-12 03:16:06 PM  

jchuffyman: TV now is probably better than it has ever been.


I also canceled my cable TV service (after the last rate bump) when I realized that I was hardly watching anything.

Now I'm splitting my time between watching older shows on Netflix, and gaming

(trying to get through my stack of xbox 360 games, not enough on the XBone yet to make me pull the trigger, but these backpedals are steps in the right direction AFAIC
 
2014-08-12 03:18:16 PM  

sprawl15: [i.imgur.com image 640x732]


Thanks for that.  Made me chuckle.
 
2014-08-12 03:18:19 PM  

lordargent: jchuffyman: TV now is probably better than it has ever been.

Not for me it's not (sci-fi shows get killed too quick and decent sci-fi shows are few and far between).


That is true. Sci-fi is a tough one. However, the quality of new shows in many genres is pretty damn good right now. For everything else, there now exists legal ways to watch the entire runs of pretty much any TV show ever created. So, if you look at the fact that modern TV viewing includes the ability to watch anything from any time without having to wait for reruns, I would still say better than ever for cheaper than ever.
 
2014-08-12 03:20:33 PM  
"...because TV now is probably better than it has ever been."

No it isn't. The *marketing* of TV shows is better than it ever has been, and the production values of most shows is very high. But the shows themselves are as stupid and predictable as ever, for the most part.


/prepares to be called a troll
 
2014-08-12 03:21:05 PM  

lordargent: (trying to get through my stack of xbox 360 games, not enough on the XBone yet to make me pull the trigger, but these backpedals are steps in the right direction AFAIC


Heh, just last week I had to finally buy the Xbone since my 360 finally crashed. It feels weird to immediately run to buy a new console...not for gaming (although I do that too)....but primarily because you don't have cable TV and you need your goddamn entertainment system to be functional.

/and no, even though I could, I'm not going to run cables through my living room connecting my laptop to the TV even as a short-term fix
 
2014-08-12 03:23:58 PM  

realmolo: "...because TV now is probably better than it has ever been."

No it isn't. The *marketing* of TV shows is better than it ever has been, and the production values of most shows is very high. But the shows themselves are as stupid and predictable as ever, for the most part.


/prepares to be called a troll


I think you are falling into the "music was better in the 70s/80s/90s trap. People only remember the best (and absolute worst) from an era and forget that the vast majority of things have always been meh to terrible.
 
2014-08-12 03:24:17 PM  

Saborlas: In before rabid Sonybros demonstrating the behavior that cheapens us all.

Also, in before idiotic "PC master race" tools who will never know the joy of playing Mario Kart without resorting to illegal means.

And if I see one of you claim to not even OWN a television...


So what's the purpose of "in before", if you don't actually say anything except to reference you're posting at the top of the thread?
 
2014-08-12 03:31:28 PM  

realmolo: "...because TV now is probably better than it has ever been."

No it isn't. The *marketing* of TV shows is better than it ever has been, and the production values of most shows is very high. But the shows themselves are as stupid and predictable as ever, for the most part.


/prepares to be called a troll


Chicago Sons and Men Behaving Badly ask that you keep the 90s out of this discussion.

A decade with breaking Bad in it is not the worst decade for TV; I don't care if the rest of the lineup was Keeping Up with the Kardashians, Hoarders, Honey Boo-Boo, The Simple Life and American Idol (which it pretty much was - thank the gods we had memories of The Wire dancing through our heads).

// though I think The Wire, Arrested Development, and Firefly all miss the decade mark (all were first aired before 2004, correct?)
 
2014-08-12 03:33:34 PM  
i.kinja-img.com

Fark you, Xbox, Fark you squarely in the enix
 
2014-08-12 03:34:20 PM  

Dr Dreidel: realmolo: "...because TV now is probably better than it has ever been."

No it isn't. The *marketing* of TV shows is better than it ever has been, and the production values of most shows is very high. But the shows themselves are as stupid and predictable as ever, for the most part.


/prepares to be called a troll

Chicago Sons and Men Behaving Badly ask that you keep the 90s out of this discussion.

A decade with breaking Bad in it is not the worst decade for TV; I don't care if the rest of the lineup was Keeping Up with the Kardashians, Hoarders, Honey Boo-Boo, The Simple Life and American Idol (which it pretty much was - thank the gods we had memories of The Wire dancing through our heads).

// though I think The Wire, Arrested Development, and Firefly all miss the decade mark (all were first aired before 2004, correct?)


The Wire and Arrested Development finished airing in this decade though, so I would count it.
 
2014-08-12 03:35:12 PM  

sprawl15: [i.imgur.com image 640x732]


Ah, yes. One of the two CAD games is to end the strip with the CADbortion. Can you believe people were actually offering condolences to Tim for the imaginary miscarriage?

The other CAD game is to just ignore the middle panels, only viewing the first and last.

i.imgur.com

The original strip was some sort of statement on how real guitarists are pretentious or some malarkey. Also how learning to play guitar costs "thousands of dollars." But the new, improved strip is just about a guy who thinks "Guitar Hero" is about lopping people's heads off. It's still not hee-haw-larious, but it's an improvement.
 
2014-08-12 03:42:27 PM  

Saborlas: And if I see one of you claim to not even OWN a television...


Well, I have a TV, but I only use it for Netflix. How's that?
 
2014-08-12 03:46:57 PM  
Angela Lansbury's Merkin:
The main selling point had been the hands free interaction with the interface.  That was a big focus of their E3 presentation, how easy it was to control TV, and switch between TV/Games/Streaming using your voice via Kinect.

You know what's even more convenient than speech/?

ouyabrew.com

On my PS3, I can do quite a number of things with the push of a single button.
 
2014-08-12 03:52:08 PM  
People still watch TV and play video games? A book can cost as little as $1, bring hours of entertainment and you actually get to use your brain. I gave up on my tv years ago, sold it on Craigslist and haven't looked back.
 
2014-08-12 03:52:39 PM  
I like my kinect as it helps me do yoga correctly as opposed to at the yoga classes at the gym, apparently northward pointing dog is frowned on.
 
2014-08-12 03:52:42 PM  

Killer Cars: Heh, just last week I had to finally buy the Xbone since my 360 finally crashed. It feels weird to immediately run to buy a new console...not for gaming (although I do that too)....but primarily because you don't have cable TV and you need your goddamn entertainment system to be functional.


My old CRT Rear projection TV died last year (blue convergence chip dying).

I had the option of buying the parts (blue and red chips, since they tend to die close to each other), for ~$100 (IIRC) for the pair, then spending hours of time desoldering and degunking the old chips and soldering and gunking the new chips into place.

OR

I could have someone else do it for the cost of the chips plus $300 in labor.

OR

I could spend $1000 on a new TV

These days, time is my most valuable resource so spending hours of my time DIY was a no go.
As for having someone fix it, $100 parts + $300 labor is nearly half the cost of a new TV.

So fark it, I bought a new smart TV.

Then I wall mounted it and changed the layout of my living room (it's way more open now), got some speakers as well.

Anyway, I spent a little more than I wanted (speakers!!), but I've been pleased with it.

The user experience of streaming netflix on the TV is above and beyond what it was with any of my other devices (there's a dedicated netflix button on the remote, turn the TV on, push that button, boom, netflix).

And this is what really got me to break away from cable TV, I also canceled my TiVo subscription
I love my TiVo, but with no cable TV it's not useful, I think I'm going to have to sell the little guy :^(

lordargent.com
 
2014-08-12 03:54:33 PM  

DubyaHater: People still watch TV and play video games? A book can cost as little as $1, bring hours of entertainment and you actually get to use your brain. I gave up on my tv years ago, sold it on Craigslist and haven't looked back.


You are allowed to spend your free time doing more than one activity.
 
2014-08-12 03:55:57 PM  

DubyaHater: People still watch TV and play video games? A book can cost as little as $1, bring hours of entertainment and you actually get to use your brain. I gave up on my tv years ago, sold it on Craigslist and haven't looked back.


Not only do I watch TV and play video games.

I also read books ... enough that I figured I should get a second kindle (one for home use, one for work use).

www.lordargent.com
 
2014-08-12 03:58:06 PM  
Still waiting on a game for Kinect that isn't dancing or exercise and is actually worth a shiat. Got a 360/Kinect bundle a couple years ago, disconnected the stupid camera after random dialog on Netflix made it pause or rewind. This time I don't think I'm bothering with the new consoles. I only use my 360 for GTAV (until the pc release) and the computer I built a year and a half ago still overpowers the new offerings.
 
2014-08-12 04:03:19 PM  

DubyaHater: People still watch TV and play video games? A book can cost as little as $1, bring hours of entertainment and you actually get to use your brain. I gave up on my tv years ago, sold it on Craigslist and haven't looked back.


I'm not really sure that a book, which simply requires you to imagine a linear story in your head uses your brain more than a game where you have to figure out complex puzzles or outsmart a human opponent. It's like saying chess doesn't use your brain the way reading Twilight does.
 
2014-08-12 04:03:57 PM  
Seems like 90% of Microsoft consists of project and program managers who are more interested in sabotaging each other's work than producing things the public would like. Most of the time when I have an issue with a Microsoft product, I'm able to find an actual engineer from the company in the support forums (something Microsoft doesn't get enough credit for allowing). But all too often it turns out the issue is with some other group who is protecting their turf. It's more than finger pointing. It's sad how often Microsoft products work better with Android than they do with other Microsoft products. I know the new CEO has this whole 'One Microsoft' initiative (though apparently started by Balmer) but it needs to be put on super warp speed. There is no reason why audio files stored on OneDrive should not play on the Xbox without an Xbox Music subscription other than the project manager for Xbox Music thought it would be a good way to get a few more subscribers. That it hurts Xbox overall and OneDrive doesn't matter because those are someone else's responsibility. De-Randifying the company is way over due.
 
2014-08-12 04:04:09 PM  
So much for the notion that consumers would just lap up Microsoft's garbage. Last E3 were fun times.
 
2014-08-12 04:09:43 PM  

DubyaHater: People still watch TV and play video games? A book can cost as little as $1, bring hours of entertainment and you actually get to use your brain. I gave up on my tv years ago, sold it on Craigslist and haven't looked back.

READ

books?  Pfffft I'm so tired of this lazy consumer society.  If you're not writing your own, well that's just mentally lazy.


/Almost done with my latest My Little Pony / Twilight crossover fan-fic volume.
 
2014-08-12 04:10:03 PM  

Mentalpatient87: Still waiting on a game for Kinect that isn't dancing or exercise and is actually worth a shiat. Got a 360/Kinect bundle a couple years ago, disconnected the stupid camera after random dialog on Netflix made it pause or rewind. This time I don't think I'm bothering with the new consoles. I only use my 360 for GTAV (until the pc release) and the computer I built a year and a half ago still overpowers the new offerings.


The increase in accuracy between the first and second Kinect models is huge but probably still not to the point where it is going to be useful for much beyond the two uses you've mentioned. In another generation or two maybe it can do things like scan you body and let you order custom tailored clothes or do some basic medical scans (it can already determine your heart rate). At that point there are likely lots of other uses that we haven't even considered. Until then though, it'll have to rely on those who like exercise and dance games to keep it afloat while each generation advances.

/Making the Xbox easier to develop for would be helpful for them too. More from a licensing POV than a programming one.
 
2014-08-12 04:11:40 PM  

EngineerAU: Seems like 90% of Microsoft consists of project and program managers who are more interested in sabotaging each other's work than producing things the public would like. Most of the time when I have an issue with a Microsoft product, I'm able to find an actual engineer from the company in the support forums (something Microsoft doesn't get enough credit for allowing). But all too often it turns out the issue is with some other group who is protecting their turf. It's more than finger pointing. It's sad how often Microsoft products work better with Android than they do with other Microsoft products. I know the new CEO has this whole 'One Microsoft' initiative (though apparently started by Balmer) but it needs to be put on super warp speed. There is no reason why audio files stored on OneDrive should not play on the Xbox without an Xbox Music subscription other than the project manager for Xbox Music thought it would be a good way to get a few more subscribers. That it hurts Xbox overall and OneDrive doesn't matter because those are someone else's responsibility. De-Randifying the company is way over due.


www.mondaynote.com
 
2014-08-12 04:13:48 PM  

Mad_Radhu: I'm not really sure that a book, which simply requires you to imagine a linear story in your head uses your brain more than a game where you have to figure out complex puzzles or outsmart a human opponent. It's like saying chess doesn't use your brain the way reading Twilight does.


I don't think the majority of games have very complex puzzles any more.

I admit I don't play a lot of online games any more, but there doesn't really seem to be situations where it's about outsmarting other players, just about reaction times and precision.
 
2014-08-12 04:16:10 PM  

Glitchwerks: Mad_Radhu: I'm not really sure that a book, which simply requires you to imagine a linear story in your head uses your brain more than a game where you have to figure out complex puzzles or outsmart a human opponent. It's like saying chess doesn't use your brain the way reading Twilight does.

I don't think the majority of games have very complex puzzles any more.

I admit I don't play a lot of online games any more, but there doesn't really seem to be situations where it's about outsmarting other players, just about reaction times and precision.


My friend and I recently picked Portal 2 back up by going through some user created co-op levels. Now, I think that not only is it great that the game has some truly hard puzzles in it now, but that someone also had to sit down and make that truly hard puzzle. I would call that more mentally stimulating than reading any day.
 
2014-08-12 04:19:49 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Angela Lansbury's Merkin:
The main selling point had been the hands free interaction with the interface.  That was a big focus of their E3 presentation, how easy it was to control TV, and switch between TV/Games/Streaming using your voice via Kinect.

You know what's even more convenient than speech/?

[ouyabrew.com image 232x570]



That's great if you are sitting on the couch. But Kinnect is awesome if you want to turn the system on while you are coming into the room, or if your hands are occupied.  I make extensive use of the kinnect form my kitchen.
 
2014-08-12 04:21:48 PM  

jchuffyman: lordargent: jchuffyman: TV now is probably better than it has ever been.

Not for me it's not (sci-fi shows get killed too quick and decent sci-fi shows are few and far between).

That is true. Sci-fi is a tough one. However, the quality of new shows in many genres is pretty damn good right now. For everything else, there now exists legal ways to watch the entire runs of pretty much any TV show ever created. So, if you look at the fact that modern TV viewing includes the ability to watch anything from any time without having to wait for reruns, I would still say better than ever for cheaper than ever.


Eh, I get the VERY basic cable package (essentially a local channel, one each of the major networks, and sixty gazillion shopping channels), and I don't feel the need to subscribe.  I know there are overrated shows (Walking Dead), shows that I probably should watch (Game of Thrones), and ones that pique my interest (Falling Skies).  That said, I usually have the same policy as I do my video games: wait it out.  I just got done playing Bioshock Infinite, for chrissakes, and there were no major patches, all of the DLC was ready, and so on.  Ditto with the TV shows.  I don't want to wait from week to week; I like to watch several episodes in a short time span.  So, I just started Falling Skies, for example, knowing I have a few seasons of "cushion" through Amazon before I get caught up.  It's just easier that way, and mostly free.

\even for Walking Dead, was able to get BluRay seasons 2+3 for about 10 bucks each
 
2014-08-12 04:21:59 PM  

GleeUnit: For what it's worth (admittedly not much), I had long told myself that if I were going to get a new console, it would be a Kinect-less XB1.  It wasn't so much about the privacy concerns (which I think are kind of silly, personally), it was more the idea that my 360 had done me solid for over half a decade without a Kinect, so if it saved me a hundred bucks, I would be fine without it.

Well, last week I found a flash deal on Newegg for an XB1 Kinect bundle and two free games for $400 out the door (essentially around $200 in freebies), so I figured why not, and pulled the trigger.  Since then, I have become a fully converted Kinect lover.  I use the voice and motion commands for everything around console navigation, it works wonders for pausing, fastfwding, rewinding, etc with AMZN Prime, works well with search functions, the whole bit.  I'll go whole sessions with the thing without even touching a remote or controller.  Hell, even my girlfriend thinks it's the coolest thing and insists that she be allowed to talk to the Xbox when we're sitting down to watch something, whereas she used to roll her eyes every time I used by 360 and claimed to be allergic to the controller.

Just my two cents, but I'm really glad I ended up with a Kinect bundle.  It's made the whole experience much better, IMHO, and I think the extent of the applications of the thing are still largely yet to be realized.


I'm likely to end up with a Kinect bundle too, even though I have no space for it right now. I figure I'll just have it and use it when it finally becomes useful.
 
2014-08-12 04:28:07 PM  

jchuffyman: realmolo: "...because TV now is probably better than it has ever been."

No it isn't. The *marketing* of TV shows is better than it ever has been, and the production values of most shows is very high. But the shows themselves are as stupid and predictable as ever, for the most part.


/prepares to be called a troll

I think you are falling into the "music was better in the 70s/80s/90s trap. People only remember the best (and absolute worst) from an era and forget that the vast majority of things have always been meh to terrible.



The easiest way to demonstrate this effect is to sit somebody down with two or three randomly selected episodes of Saturday Night Live.  Any given episode will have 1 or 2 good sketches, 1 or 2 awful sketches, and a bunch of middling stuff.  Once or twice per season you'll usually get a classic bit.  But over the course of 40 years, those classic sketches start to add up and stick out in your memory while the hundreds of middling to awful sketches start to fade.
 
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