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(Canadian Football League)   Troy Smith, Heisman winner, starting quarterback for the Montreal Alouettes... Er. backup? third string? Hidden on the IR? Okey dokey then   (cfl.ca) divider line 72
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1720 clicks; posted to Sports » on 12 Aug 2014 at 8:09 AM (7 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-12 01:42:15 AM
The guy just doesn't have pro-level skills. He's shown that with multiple NFL teams, the UFL, and now the CFL. It really seems the Heisman Trophy is the biggest indicator of a player's inability to play pro ball, at least in the QB position.
 
2014-08-12 07:14:54 AM
This will be Johnny Manziel's fate in three years.
 
2014-08-12 08:13:21 AM

MmmmBacon: This will be Johnny Manziel's fate in three years.


I think Manziel could succeed in the CFL.  He has a pretty good arm and knows how to throw the ball.

Troy Smith couldn't throw in college.
 
2014-08-12 08:16:49 AM
Sam Bradford is one of the thirty best quarterbacks in the world. Just sayin.
 
2014-08-12 08:22:36 AM

MugzyBrown: MmmmBacon: This will be Johnny Manziel's fate in three years.

I think Manziel could succeed in the CFL.  He has a pretty good arm and knows how to throw the ball.

Troy Smith couldn't throw in college.


LOLWUT?

Troy Smith in his last two years at Ohio State:
Yards per attempt: 8.9 avg
Comp %: 64.1%

Manziel in his last two years at TAMU:
Yards per attempt: 9.05 avg
Comp %: 68.9%

Manziel threw more interceptions in his last year at TAMU than Smith did in his entire college career.
 
2014-08-12 08:24:15 AM
4-0.
 
2014-08-12 08:28:38 AM
 
2014-08-12 08:30:27 AM
What? No call for Tebow?

I'm shocked.
 
2014-08-12 08:40:44 AM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: LOLWUT?

Troy Smith in his last two years at Ohio State:
Yards per attempt: 8.9 avg
Comp %: 64.1%

Manziel in his last two years at TAMU:
Yards per attempt: 9.05 avg
Comp %: 68.9%


LOL YOUWATCH FOOTBAL?


All you had to do was watch Smith throw the ball to know he wasn't an NFL QB.   There's a reason he only had a handful of starts in the NFL and was drafted in the 5th round.
 
2014-08-12 08:51:08 AM

MugzyBrown: The_Six_Fingered_Man: LOLWUT?

Troy Smith in his last two years at Ohio State:
Yards per attempt: 8.9 avg
Comp %: 64.1%

Manziel in his last two years at TAMU:
Yards per attempt: 9.05 avg
Comp %: 68.9%

LOL YOUWATCH FOOTBAL?


All you had to do was watch Smith throw the ball to know he wasn't an NFL QB.   There's a reason he only had a handful of starts in the NFL and was drafted in the 5th round.


As an Ohio State fan, I watched every snap that Smith took in college.

The reasons he didn't start in Baltimore: Kyle Boller and Steve McNair in the first year. Lemierre's disease and Joe Flacco in the second. When he gets to SF, he takes over and goes 3-2, giving SF half of their wins that year. He never played for Pittsburgh.

We don't even have a full season of seeing the guy in the NFL. He was usurped by Flacco and then Harbaugh went back to Alex Smith after SF lost two games with Troy. I've seen the guy make throws that not many can make. All you had to do was watch Smith and Ginn at work to see one of the best tandems in the sport.

It's sad that he's been unable to keep a starting spot for whatever reason, but please do not try to say that he could not throw the ball.
 
2014-08-12 09:00:15 AM
A Heisman winner that isn't a star in the pros? Well I never! Whar my fainting couch, whar?

/meanwhile Eric Crouch asks if you want fries with that
//keeping a uniform ready for Johnny Football
 
2014-08-12 09:02:00 AM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: MugzyBrown: The_Six_Fingered_Man: LOLWUT?

Troy Smith in his last two years at Ohio State:
Yards per attempt: 8.9 avg
Comp %: 64.1%

Manziel in his last two years at TAMU:
Yards per attempt: 9.05 avg
Comp %: 68.9%

LOL YOUWATCH FOOTBAL?


All you had to do was watch Smith throw the ball to know he wasn't an NFL QB.   There's a reason he only had a handful of starts in the NFL and was drafted in the 5th round.

As an Ohio State fan, I watched every snap that Smith took in college.

The reasons he didn't start in Baltimore: Kyle Boller and Steve McNair in the first year. Lemierre's disease and Joe Flacco in the second. When he gets to SF, he takes over and goes 3-2, giving SF half of their wins that year. He never played for Pittsburgh.

We don't even have a full season of seeing the guy in the NFL. He was usurped by Flacco and then Harbaugh went back to Alex Smith after SF lost two games with Troy. I've seen the guy make throws that not many can make. All you had to do was watch Smith and Ginn at work to see one of the best tandems in the sport.

It's sad that he's been unable to keep a starting spot for whatever reason, but please do not try to say that he could not throw the ball.


Best tandems in the sport? Thanks for my morning laugh dude. Yeah, a guy who washed out of the league and a mediocre punt returner were one of the best tandems in the sport. Hilarious.

/ah I see, Ohio State fan...yeah
 
2014-08-12 09:09:30 AM

Jack Lambert's Missing Teeth: mediocre punt returner


In case you were wondering, this is when I knew you were stupid. Do you call all top 10 guys "mediocre?"
 
2014-08-12 09:27:53 AM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Jack Lambert's Missing Teeth: mediocre punt returner

In case you were wondering, this is when I knew you were stupid. Do you call all top 10 guys "mediocre?"


Excellent punt returner, mediocre receiver.

As for Troy Smith, the 49ers offense was a tire fire before Harbaugh took over and Troy still couldn't stay on the field. That's all you need to know about him.
 
2014-08-12 09:33:31 AM

MugzyBrown: There's a reason he only had a handful of starts in the NFL and was drafted in the 5th round.


If I were a GM, I'd use my 5th round pick for a QB every year.  There is no "science" in identifying college QB's with pro skills.  I'd be better off picking up the best left over slab of beef sitting on the scrap bin and give him a low cost 3 year contract.  Year. 1, practice squad.  Year 2: 3rd string.  Year 3: second string. By year three you should know if he is has what it takes to play in the NFL.
 
2014-08-12 09:33:54 AM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: As an Ohio State fan, I watched every snap that Smith took in college.

The reasons he didn't start in Baltimore: Kyle Boller and Steve McNair in the first year. Lemierre's disease and Joe Flacco in the second. When he gets to SF, he takes over and goes 3-2, giving SF half of their wins that year. He never played for Pittsburgh.

We don't even have a full season of seeing the guy in the NFL. He was usurped by Flacco and then Harbaugh went back to Alex Smith after SF lost two games with Troy. I've seen the guy make throws that not many can make. All you had to do was watch Smith and Ginn at work to see one of the best tandems in the sport.

It's sad that he's been unable to keep a starting spot for whatever reason, but please do not try to say that he could not throw the ball.


He was drafted in the 5th round as a possible "slash" type player with a long shot that maybe he'll play QB.

Yes, he couldn't beat out a washed up Steve McNair and an awful Kyle Boller.  Yes he couldn't beat out Alex Smith.

He was a BAD NFL QB.. why? Because HE WASN'T A GOOD PASSER.

Just because you make some nice throws in college doesn't make you a good passer.
 
2014-08-12 09:37:04 AM

Muta: If I were a GM, I'd use my 5th round pick for a QB every year.  There is no "science" in identifying college QB's with pro skills.  I'd be better off picking up the best left over slab of beef sitting on the scrap bin and give him a low cost 3 year contract.  Year. 1, practice squad.  Year 2: 3rd string.  Year 3: second string. By year three you should know if he is has what it takes to play in the NFL.


That's great.  You'd be fired unless you already had a stud starting QB.  A large percentage of the top 20 QBs in the league were drafted in round 1 and a huge percentage were drafted by the 3rd round.

Every so often one slips through the cracks, but if your strategy is to keep picking 5th rounders until one develops, your NFL team will be in the basement for 10 years.
 
2014-08-12 09:38:45 AM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: MugzyBrown: MmmmBacon: This will be Johnny Manziel's fate in three years.

I think Manziel could succeed in the CFL.  He has a pretty good arm and knows how to throw the ball.

Troy Smith couldn't throw in college.

LOLWUT?

Troy Smith in his last two years at Ohio State:
Yards per attempt: 8.9 avg
Comp %: 64.1%

Manziel in his last two years at TAMU:
Yards per attempt: 9.05 avg
Comp %: 68.9%

Manziel threw more interceptions in his last year at TAMU than Smith did in his entire college career.


Troy Smith attempted about 20 passes per game, Johnny Manziel attempted about 33.

Troy smith didn't make it as a QB in the NFL because he wasn't a QB in College. He was a running back who threw occasionally. It worked really well at tOSU, too because he and "best tandem" partner Ted Ginn could just out-talent the vast majority of their opponents. Have Ginn run faster than the DBs, have Smith get the ball in the general vicinity, it's a low-risk/high-reward situation.

It's not that he didn't get a shot, he got plenty. It's that he never really had one, and he joined the pantheon of Heisman winners whose skill sets worked in college but didn't when the relative talent level was more equal.
 
2014-08-12 09:40:24 AM

MugzyBrown: if your strategy is to keep picking 5th rounders until one develops, your NFL team will be in the basement for 10 years.


That rule does not seem apply to the Patriots, for whatever reason.
 
2014-08-12 09:43:08 AM

SuperChuck: Troy still couldn't stay on the field


Which is on Harbaugh.
 
2014-08-12 09:46:16 AM

The Homer Tax: Troy smith didn't make it as a QB in the NFL because he wasn't a QB in College. He was a running back who threw occasionally.


Which is why he only had 72 rushing attempts in his Heisman year. Johnny Football? 144.
 
2014-08-12 09:47:24 AM

HMS_Blinkin: MugzyBrown: if your strategy is to keep picking 5th rounders until one develops, your NFL team will be in the basement for 10 years.

That rule does not seem apply to the Patriots, for whatever reason.


That worked for them once. How many starting caliber quarterbacks have they drafted since then?
 
2014-08-12 09:51:18 AM

MugzyBrown: Muta: If I were a GM, I'd use my 5th round pick for a QB every year.  There is no "science" in identifying college QB's with pro skills.  I'd be better off picking up the best left over slab of beef sitting on the scrap bin and give him a low cost 3 year contract.  Year. 1, practice squad.  Year 2: 3rd string.  Year 3: second string. By year three you should know if he is has what it takes to play in the NFL.

That's great.  You'd be fired unless you already had a stud starting QB.  A large percentage of the top 20 QBs in the league were drafted in round 1 and a huge percentage were drafted by the 3rd round.

Every so often one slips through the cracks, but if your strategy is to keep picking 5th rounders until one develops, your NFL team will be in the basement for 10 years.


Taking QB's in the 1st and second has worked real well for the Vikings.
 
2014-08-12 09:55:31 AM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: SuperChuck: Troy still couldn't stay on the field

Which is on Harbaugh.


1) I said before Harbaugh.

2) Are you saying Harbaugh choose poorly at QB by picking the guy who took them to the NFC championship and is now starting on another NFL team over the guy who couldn't cut it on several NFL and minor league teams?
 
2014-08-12 09:55:53 AM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: The Homer Tax: Troy smith didn't make it as a QB in the NFL because he wasn't a QB in College. He was a running back who threw occasionally.

Which is why he only had 72 rushing attempts in his Heisman year. Johnny Football? 144.


Yeah but a significant number of those Manziel runs were broken down passing plays. For the record, I don't think JM is going to succeed in the NFL either.
 
2014-08-12 10:03:13 AM
Troy Smith had the college success he did because the Big Ten is a clown conference.  Had to play powerhouses like Illinois, Purdue, IU, etc.
 
2014-08-12 10:03:24 AM

SuperChuck: 2) Are you saying Harbaugh choose poorly at QB by picking the guy who took them to the NFC championship and is now starting on another NFL team over the guy who couldn't cut it on several NFL and minor league teams?


Yes. My evidence is that in the time before Alex Smith left, he was a dumpster fire. When he came back, he had not extinguished himself. He had a good run on a shortened season and a 1 year contract, but for the most part, was completely ineffective in San Francisco. The fact that he starts for the Chiefs is fairly irrelevant. The further evidence is that under Harbaugh, using a QB that has similar talents to Troy Smith, the 49ers have been to back to back NFC Championship games and a Super Bowl.
 
2014-08-12 10:26:16 AM

Dawg47: Sam Bradford is one of the thirty best quarterbacks in the world. Just sayin.


I've said it before, but one of my theories of the NFL is that, at any given moment, there are ~25 individuals who possess the physical and mental tools to be a starting quarterback, and another 35 to 40 who could be a competent backup.

If you have one of the 25, you keep them, because there are 7 teams that will happily overpay for him. (See Joe Flacco's contract for more on this.) If your team doesn't have one of the 25, you hope you've got a competent backup- level guy, and he can maybe game-manage you to success. This is the Dilfer/ McMahon Theory, and it's why Ryan Fitzpatrick has a job in Houston right now.
 
2014-08-12 10:39:01 AM
No wonder Canadians hate Americans!  They send us lumber, maple syrup, and SCTV, and what do
they get back?  Acid rain and geezer football players!  (They have gotten some revenge, though...
think cold fronts and Justin Bieber.)
 
2014-08-12 10:39:32 AM

Jack Lambert's Missing Teeth: Best tandems in the sport? Thanks for my morning laugh dude. Yeah, a guy who washed out of the league and a mediocre punt returner were one of the best tandems in the sport. Hilarious.


To his point though, Troy Smith did make Ted Ginn look good enough to be a top draft pick.
 
2014-08-12 10:47:52 AM

Dawg47: Sam Bradford is one of the thirty best quarterbacks in the world. Just sayin.


Top ten, if he can stay healthy behind our upgraded O-line. Just sayin'
 
2014-08-12 10:48:28 AM
 
2014-08-12 10:49:54 AM
If you couldn't cut it as a quarterback in the UFL, you're probably not going to make it in the CFL.
 
2014-08-12 10:52:11 AM

Arkanaut: Jack Lambert's Missing Teeth: Best tandems in the sport? Thanks for my morning laugh dude. Yeah, a guy who washed out of the league and a mediocre punt returner were one of the best tandems in the sport. Hilarious.

To his point though, Troy Smith did make Ted Ginn look good enough to be a top draft pick.


Or Ted Ginn made Troy Smith look good enough to get a shot in the NFL.
 
2014-08-12 10:57:07 AM

WoodyHayes: 4-0.


You talking about that team from up north?
 
2014-08-12 11:09:37 AM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: The Homer Tax: Troy smith didn't make it as a QB in the NFL because he wasn't a QB in College. He was a running back who threw occasionally.

Which is why he only had 72 rushing attempts in his Heisman year. Johnny Football? 144.


[ohsnap.jpg]

MugzyBrown: A large percentage of the top 20 QBs in the league were drafted in round 1 and a huge percentage were drafted by the 3rd round.


FactCheck, for my own amusement. (I'm bored at work.)

2013/14 week 17 starters (link): 16 1st round, 5 2nd, 4 3rd, 2 4th, 1 7th, 2 8th, 1 supplemental draft, 1 undrafted. The undrafted was Alex Smith's backup who started week 17; dropping him and adding Alex Smith adds another 1st rounder.

Top 20 QBs (link): 8 1st round, 2 2nd, 3 3rd, 1 6th, 1 9th, 1 10th, 1 17th, 1 supplemental, 2 undrafted.

Mugzy is on track with the top QBs being selected early in the draft. Let's look at drafts for 2010-2013, and see where QBs drafted in the fifth round are now that they've had time to rise from the practice squad. (Hint: looking above, zero are starting in the NFL.)

2010: Skelton showed flashes of excellence, including a game with a perfect rating, in AZ. Injuries and poor play sidelined him; Wikipedia says he's on the dolphins, but he's not on their depth chart. Crompton bounced around a little bit, and is now in the CFL.
2011: Stanzi hasn't started a game, but may have a bright future now that he's list as a fourth string QB... in Jacksonville. Yates couldn't outplay Schaub in Texas, and was recently traded to ATL. Enderle has been on five teams without starting, including the CFL. Now he's in the AFL.
2012: No QBs in the fifth round.
2013: Another year of no QBs in the fifth. Looks like teams learned their lesson in 2011.

Verdict: Get your QBs in the early rounds while the gettin' is good.
 
2014-08-12 11:11:29 AM

Arkanaut: Jack Lambert's Missing Teeth: Best tandems in the sport? Thanks for my morning laugh dude. Yeah, a guy who washed out of the league and a mediocre punt returner were one of the best tandems in the sport. Hilarious.

To his point though, Troy Smith did make Ted Ginn look good enough to be a top draft pick.


Down here we still make fun of Dolphins management for that first round pick.
 
2014-08-12 11:13:26 AM

WoodyHayes: 4-0.


You magnificent bastard. I miss you dearly.
 
2014-08-12 11:28:36 AM

Igor Jakovsky: Arkanaut: Jack Lambert's Missing Teeth: Best tandems in the sport? Thanks for my morning laugh dude. Yeah, a guy who washed out of the league and a mediocre punt returner were one of the best tandems in the sport. Hilarious.

To his point though, Troy Smith did make Ted Ginn look good enough to be a top draft pick.

Down here we still make fun of Dolphins management for that first round pick.


Speaking of bad picks by the Dolphins, I wonder if Ginn is why they wasted a second-round pick on Pat White, a short, skinny QB who runs a lot.
 
2014-08-12 11:29:29 AM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: SuperChuck: 2) Are you saying Harbaugh choose poorly at QB by picking the guy who took them to the NFC championship and is now starting on another NFL team over the guy who couldn't cut it on several NFL and minor league teams?

Yes. My evidence is that in the time before Alex Smith left, he was a dumpster fire. When he came back, he had not extinguished himself. He had a good run on a shortened season and a 1 year contract, but for the most part, was completely ineffective in San Francisco. The fact that he starts for the Chiefs is fairly irrelevant. The further evidence is that under Harbaugh, using a QB that has similar talents to Troy Smith, the 49ers have been to back to back NFC Championship games and a Super Bowl.


Not so similar

Troy Smith: Career: 51.7% Completions, 32.2 QBR, 78.5 QB Rating
Colin Kaepernick Career: 59.8% Completions, 75.6 QBR, 93.8 QB Rating
 
2014-08-12 11:42:00 AM

SuperChuck: The_Six_Fingered_Man: SuperChuck: 2) Are you saying Harbaugh choose poorly at QB by picking the guy who took them to the NFC championship and is now starting on another NFL team over the guy who couldn't cut it on several NFL and minor league teams?

Yes. My evidence is that in the time before Alex Smith left, he was a dumpster fire. When he came back, he had not extinguished himself. He had a good run on a shortened season and a 1 year contract, but for the most part, was completely ineffective in San Francisco. The fact that he starts for the Chiefs is fairly irrelevant. The further evidence is that under Harbaugh, using a QB that has similar talents to Troy Smith, the 49ers have been to back to back NFC Championship games and a Super Bowl.

Not so similar

Troy Smith: Career: 51.7% Completions, 32.2 QBR, 78.5 QB Rating
Colin Kaepernick Career: 59.8% Completions, 75.6 QBR, 93.8 QB Rating


About the only thing that you posted that actually matters is the completion percentage. QB rating comes from starting more games in the NFL than Smith ever played in. So out of 10 throws, Pumpernickel completes one more than Smith. Pretty similar.

But you should be ashamed. You obviously knew that I was talking about physical talents and style of play. You should also know that the same player can thrive in one offense and flounder in another. Case in point, Alex Smith.
 
2014-08-12 11:45:02 AM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: MugzyBrown: MmmmBacon: This will be Johnny Manziel's fate in three years.

I think Manziel could succeed in the CFL.  He has a pretty good arm and knows how to throw the ball.

Troy Smith couldn't throw in college.

LOLWUT?

Troy Smith in his last two years at Ohio State:
Yards per attempt: 8.9 avg
Comp %: 64.1%

Manziel in his last two years at TAMU:
Yards per attempt: 9.05 avg
Comp %: 68.9%

Manziel threw more interceptions in his last year at TAMU than Smith did in his entire college career.


Tim Tebow College Career
Yards per attempt: 9.03 avg
Comp %: 64.4


Tom Brady College Career
Yards per attempt: 7,52 avg
Comp %: 61.9

College stats definitely a good indicator of NFL success.
 
2014-08-12 11:49:48 AM

RPT1964: The guy just doesn't have pro-level skills. He's shown that with multiple NFL teams, the UFL, and now the CFL. It really seems the Heisman Trophy is the biggest indicator of a player's inability to play pro ball, at least in the QB position.


Yes and no.  Partially, the problem with the award is that the college game has, over the last 10 or 20 years, morphed into something that rewards dual threat QBs that are great runners; which are skills that aren't terribly helpful in the NFL (they don't hurt either, mind you).  However, the biggest problem with the Heisman trophy is that, for several years, it was rewarded to the QB on a top 5 team and not the actual best player. This is how Troy Smith won the award, because he was the QB of a team everyone assumed was going to win the national championship (which, needless to say, didn't happen).  They seem to have stopped doing this since it made the award look a lot less prestigious when the likes of Troy Smith and Mark Ingram were winning it.

However, the problem that, what succeeds in college doesn't succeed in the pros still remains.  You're going to see players like Tebow win the Heisman and flame out in the pros because their skillset is suited towards college football but terrible for the NFL.
 
2014-08-12 11:54:03 AM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: About the only thing that you posted that actually matters is the completion percentage. QB rating comes from starting more games in the NFL than Smith ever played in. So out of 10 throws, Pumpernickel completes one more than Smith. Pretty similar.


An eight percentage point difference in completion percentage is a huge deal.  Last year, that was the difference between Andrew Luck and Brandon Weeden.
 
2014-08-12 11:54:10 AM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: But you should be ashamed. You obviously knew that I was talking about physical talents and style of play


They both run fast.

End of comparison.
 
2014-08-12 11:54:39 AM

farbekrieg: College stats definitely a good indicator of NFL success.


Random stats are a good indicator that you didn't pay attention. Someone indicated that Manziel is better than Smith because he can throw. I showed that they are comparable.
 
2014-08-12 12:00:30 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: The Homer Tax: Troy smith didn't make it as a QB in the NFL because he wasn't a QB in College. He was a running back who threw occasionally.

Which is why he only had 72 rushing attempts in his Heisman year. Johnny Football? 144.


That doesn't help your case.  The fact that Manziel had more rushing attempts and more passing attempts meant that Texas A&M had to rely on him more than Ohio State did on Troy Smith.
 
2014-08-12 12:01:52 PM
It's pretty amazing watching these Ohio State true believers trying to bring us into their delusion that Troy Smith was a dominant QB who failed in the NFL because of circumstance, not because he sucks.  That they continue to do this after he not only flames out of the NFL, but flames out of the CFL as well, is absolutely incredible.
 
2014-08-12 12:04:05 PM
img.fark.net

High guys, whats going on in this thread?

/had a good arm
//terrible knees
 
2014-08-12 12:08:59 PM

llortcM_yllort: The_Six_Fingered_Man: The Homer Tax: Troy smith didn't make it as a QB in the NFL because he wasn't a QB in College. He was a running back who threw occasionally.

Which is why he only had 72 rushing attempts in his Heisman year. Johnny Football? 144.

That doesn't help your case.  The fact that Manziel had more rushing attempts and more passing attempts meant that Texas A&M had to rely on him more than Ohio State did on Troy Smith.


It was to illustrate that Troy Smith was not just a "running back who threw occasionally."

It also means that TAMU didn't have a running back that they could count on, unlike Antonio Pittman or Beanie Wells.
 
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