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(WTAQ Green Bay)   Spokesman says Wisconsin DOT is not installing speed bumps, it just sucks at road maintenance   (wtaq.com) divider line 35
    More: PSA, Marshfield, Wisconsin Department of Transportation  
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3047 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Aug 2014 at 2:30 AM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



35 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-08-12 01:21:26 AM  
He said the weather was the culprit, as temperatures got warmer and rose into the 80's every day.

What kind of pussy highways are they building in Wisconsin that can't handle 80 degree heat??
 
2014-08-12 02:32:25 AM  
Obvious tag wasn't one of Scott Walker's cronies?
 
2014-08-12 02:35:08 AM  

fusillade762: He said the weather was the culprit, as temperatures got warmer and rose into the 80's every day.

What kind of pussy highways are they building in Wisconsin that can't handle 80 degree heat??


Same as their football team.
 
2014-08-12 02:42:50 AM  

fusillade762: He said the weather was the culprit, as temperatures got warmer and rose into the 80's every day.

What kind of pussy highways are they building in Wisconsin that can't handle 80 degree heat??


Probably made the highway be able to take colder weather makes it harder to handle heat? Kinda like a winter tire during summer
 
2014-08-12 02:46:39 AM  

Weatherkiss: fusillade762: He said the weather was the culprit, as temperatures got warmer and rose into the 80's every day.

What kind of pussy highways are they building in Wisconsin that can't handle 80 degree heat??

Same as their football team.


WTF?

Dude... troll harder.

I grew up on those roads and I can tell you from personal experience....a 4-6 inch swell from an underground freeze/swell is commonplace with springs and marshes all over the place. County highyways and trunk routes can be an iron biatch in the early summer.

Unless you're actually serious in your football comment, in which case I'll stack the Packers 13 Championships against...well, whatever team you follows *less than that* and snicker a bit.
 
2014-08-12 02:55:27 AM  

fusillade762: He said the weather was the culprit, as temperatures got warmer and rose into the 80's every day.

What kind of pussy highways are they building in Wisconsin that can't handle 80 degree heat??


I bought "our freeze thaw cycles are weird, that's why our roads suck" BS in Michigan until I drove on beautiful smooth roads in southern Ontario. Oh, and realized that truck weigh stations are never, ever, ever open.
 
2014-08-12 02:57:47 AM  

xaks: Weatherkiss: fusillade762: He said the weather was the culprit, as temperatures got warmer and rose into the 80's every day.

What kind of pussy highways are they building in Wisconsin that can't handle 80 degree heat??

Same as their football team.

WTF?

Dude... troll harder.

I grew up on those roads and I can tell you from personal experience....a 4-6 inch swell from an underground freeze/swell is commonplace with springs and marshes all over the place. County highyways and trunk routes can be an iron biatch in the early summer.

Unless you're actually serious in your football comment, in which case I'll stack the Packers 13 Championships against...well, whatever team you follows *less than that* and snicker a bit.


Again: how can Ontario, with very comparable weather to the Midwest states (being stuck between Michigan and upstate NY and all) manage relatively decent roadways?
 
2014-08-12 03:04:45 AM  

fusillade762: He said the weather was the culprit, as temperatures got warmer and rose into the 80's every day.

What kind of pussy highways are they building in Wisconsin that can't handle 80 degree heat??


What kind of pussy highway can't take a pounding?
 
2014-08-12 03:09:43 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: xaks: Weatherkiss: fusillade762: He said the weather was the culprit, as temperatures got warmer and rose into the 80's every day.

What kind of pussy highways are they building in Wisconsin that can't handle 80 degree heat??

Same as their football team.

WTF?

Dude... troll harder.

I grew up on those roads and I can tell you from personal experience....a 4-6 inch swell from an underground freeze/swell is commonplace with springs and marshes all over the place. County highyways and trunk routes can be an iron biatch in the early summer.

Unless you're actually serious in your football comment, in which case I'll stack the Packers 13 Championships against...well, whatever team you follows *less than that* and snicker a bit.

Again: how can Ontario, with very comparable weather to the Midwest states (being stuck between Michigan and upstate NY and all) manage relatively decent roadways?


Because paying for infrastructure is Communism. Or something.
 
2014-08-12 04:11:19 AM  

fusillade762: He said the weather was the culprit, as temperatures got warmer and rose into the 80's every day.

What kind of pussy highways are they building in Wisconsin that can't handle 80 degree heat??


Sounds like they got the same contractors that handle Indiana.  I've traveled the US highways from Washington (state, not district) to Florida and Indiana's got some of the shiattiest stretches of interstate that I've ever seen.  Many of their transitions (going from surface road to overpass) have a gap of about 6-8" that may have once been filled with foam rubber.  Some still have traces of it flapping around that haven't disintegrated yet.  Every time I passed over one of those cocksuckers, it'd be BAM...BAMBAMBAM as my 4 axles bang over the gap.  Almost as bad as the surface streets in New Orleans.  Okay...I shouldn't say something I can't take back.  Nothing is that bad.  :)
 
2014-08-12 04:45:20 AM  
Obviously Wisconsin:

Subby - I see what you did there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO3dkMjO7Z8
 
2014-08-12 05:41:41 AM  
Asphalt over concrete.  ALWAYS a really really stupid idea.
 
2014-08-12 05:43:05 AM  

xaks: Weatherkiss: fusillade762: He said the weather was the culprit, as temperatures got warmer and rose into the 80's every day.

What kind of pussy highways are they building in Wisconsin that can't handle 80 degree heat??

Same as their football team.

WTF?

Dude... troll harder.

I grew up on those roads and I can tell you from personal experience....a 4-6 inch swell from an underground freeze/swell is commonplace with springs and marshes all over the place. County highyways and trunk routes can be an iron biatch in the early summer.

Unless you're actually serious in your football comment, in which case I'll stack the Packers 13 Championships against...well, whatever team you follows *less than that* and snicker a bit.


A properly prepared roadway base won't do that.
 
2014-08-12 06:26:09 AM  
I'm fairly certain that someone is cluster-bombing my town's roads at night. But we have some pretty cool new curbs along our crumbling roads so I guess I'm proud of my local government after all.
 
2014-08-12 07:17:35 AM  
Note: In place of "Wisconsin" in the headline, feel free to substitute "New Jersey", "Pennsylvania", or "New York".

/Roads in the Northeast are crap.
 
2014-08-12 07:40:00 AM  

RoLleRKoaSTeR: Obviously Wisconsin:

Subby - I see what you did there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO3dkMjO7Z8

drives me nuts when they take the camera off the action--supposedly to call 911.  give me a break---you call up after the action stops.  they you know if they need an ambulance or the coroner.

 
2014-08-12 07:50:18 AM  

DarkVader: Asphalt over concrete.  ALWAYS a really really stupid idea.


How so?
 
2014-08-12 07:51:27 AM  

DarkVader: Asphalt over concrete.  ALWAYS a really really stupid idea.


Ayup.  I used to work for NDOT as a pavement analyst (fancy way of saying road tester).  Asphalt over Concrete cracking was actually its own type of damage in our identification system.

www.pavemanpro.com

That's the best photo I could find on the publicly available websites.  Internally we had some photos that show the exact kind of thing this article is talking about.  Looks like a series of speed bumps in the road every ten feet.  Freakin' awful.
 
2014-08-12 08:05:50 AM  

EvilVanMan: DarkVader: Asphalt over concrete.  ALWAYS a really really stupid idea.

How so?


The short version is that concrete by design has to be poured in slabs no bigger than about 10-12 feet  When you put asphalt over concrete it'll stick to the concrete just fine, but then the slabs move somewhat independently under the asphalt.  That's fine for concrete, but for asphalt it causes a lot of stress on those tiny ass little lines where the gaps in the concrete are.  Thus, you get cracks every 10-12 feet along the road.

Secondly, asphalt typically expands and contracts more than concrete based on heat.  Asphalt also sticks to concrete pretty well, so the area that can expand the most is, you guessed it, the area right over the gaps in the concrete slabs.  That'll lead to a sort of hump in the road every 10-12 feet.

Combine both of the above and you have a very creative and bumpy roadway.
 
2014-08-12 08:41:34 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: xaks: Weatherkiss: fusillade762: He said the weather was the culprit, as temperatures got warmer and rose into the 80's every day.

What kind of pussy highways are they building in Wisconsin that can't handle 80 degree heat??

Same as their football team.

WTF?

Dude... troll harder.

I grew up on those roads and I can tell you from personal experience....a 4-6 inch swell from an underground freeze/swell is commonplace with springs and marshes all over the place. County highyways and trunk routes can be an iron biatch in the early summer.

Unless you're actually serious in your football comment, in which case I'll stack the Packers 13 Championships against...well, whatever team you follows *less than that* and snicker a bit.

Again: how can Ontario, with very comparable weather to the Midwest states (being stuck between Michigan and upstate NY and all) manage relatively decent roadways?


I see you've never been on Thessalon 'highway'. Let me know how that gravel works out for you. I'm also not sure if there's been a year where there wasn't something torn up between Wawa and Chapleau.

Not that I don't like Canada. I imported my wife from Timmins, ON, CA.
 
2014-08-12 08:49:07 AM  
Wisconsin many bumps. Now! Handle it!  Do they need more DOTs? More DOTs? K, stop DOTs.
 
2014-08-12 09:17:32 AM  
I blame Scott Walker.
 
2014-08-12 09:21:23 AM  
Say what you will, the WI DOT is 100 times better than the MN DOT.
 
2014-08-12 09:24:42 AM  
PA laughs in your general direction WI. So does Delaware and some parts of Maryland I've been to. And they all have tolls. Your roads are just kinda bad, not lose a strut bad like out here.
 
2014-08-12 09:29:05 AM  
Cybernetic


Note: In place of "Wisconsin" in the headline, feel free to substitute "New Jersey", "Pennsylvania", or "New York".


Or Illinois, Minnesota, Iowa.

Pretty much anywhere water can get under the surface freeze, melt, and freeze again.
 
2014-08-12 09:32:39 AM  
Thanks Scott Walker.
 
2014-08-12 09:41:44 AM  

deansnose: I blame Scott Walker.


He did shift money, but I'd have to check and see exactly what he moved where again.
 
2014-08-12 09:41:49 AM  

yukichigai: DarkVader: Asphalt over concrete.  ALWAYS a really really stupid idea.

Ayup.  I used to work for NDOT as a pavement analyst (fancy way of saying road tester).  Asphalt over Concrete cracking was actually its own type of damage in our identification system.

[www.pavemanpro.com image 585x347]

That's the best photo I could find on the publicly available websites.  Internally we had some photos that show the exact kind of thing this article is talking about.  Looks like a series of speed bumps in the road every ten feet.  Freakin' awful.


I think it's done to protect the sanity of the drivers.  On any concrete road you'll get a little thump at the boundary between slabs, but it's usually pretty minor.  In WI it tends to be very loud.  Try driving somewhere for two hours with a constant, rhythmic  Thu-Thud! Thu-Thud! Thu-Thud! Thu-Thud! that just won't let up, and even rocks the car a bit.  It's like torture.  That's also why WI drivers don't keep right, because the left-hand lane is generally quieter.  It's surprisingly consistent across all of their highways, like they have just one paver and it's farked up.  Anyhow, counties will lay asphalt over it, and you'll cry out in joy when you reach one of those sections.
 
2014-08-12 10:13:04 AM  

DarkVader: Asphalt over concrete.  ALWAYS a really really stupid idea.


This.

Also Wisconsin is repaving a portion of I43 in Walworth County. Again, it's the asphalt-over-concrete method. A NORMAL(non-Walker governed) state would repair any buckles in the concrete first, then lay a base layer of asphalt before the finish layer (with striping).

WisDOT actually had them grind the entire concrete base a few inches ( with some sections randomly removed entirely and replaced with a mix of soil and rocks) before applying the first coat. And they couldn't find it in their hearts to complete one lane first- drivers had to serpentine through 12 miles of this shiat. The messed up joints were never fixed, and the newly-created soil/rock repairs created dips that could make a car disappear.

But it gets better. Once the first coat of asphalt was laid, now it's time to dust off the ol' grinder and take it OFF! And...wait for it...they LEFT IT that way, loose stones and all (to invariably make their way through someone's windshield).

Now they are starting to place coat #2 in some spots. Still no joint repairs. And all of this will last through late November.

This is the southbound side from Mukwonago to Elkhorn. Last year they did the northbound lanes, where they laid the first layer, THEN attempted to repair joints with concrete through the blacktop, then finished it. Still took em through farking November.

So yes, I also blame Walker.
 
2014-08-12 10:25:47 AM  

farkingbubbler: DarkVader: Asphalt over concrete.  ALWAYS a really really stupid idea.

This.

Also Wisconsin is repaving a portion of I43 in Walworth County. Again, it's the asphalt-over-concrete method. A NORMAL(non-Walker governed) state would repair any buckles in the concrete first, then lay a base layer of asphalt before the finish layer (with striping).

WisDOT actually had them grind the entire concrete base a few inches ( with some sections randomly removed entirely and replaced with a mix of soil and rocks) before applying the first coat. And they couldn't find it in their hearts to complete one lane first- drivers had to serpentine through 12 miles of this shiat. The messed up joints were never fixed, and the newly-created soil/rock repairs created dips that could make a car disappear.

But it gets better. Once the first coat of asphalt was laid, now it's time to dust off the ol' grinder and take it OFF! And...wait for it...they LEFT IT that way, loose stones and all (to invariably make their way through someone's windshield).

Now they are starting to place coat #2 in some spots. Still no joint repairs. And all of this will last through late November.

This is the southbound side from Mukwonago to Elkhorn. Last year they did the northbound lanes, where they laid the first layer, THEN attempted to repair joints with concrete through the blacktop, then finished it. Still took em through farking November.

So yes, I also blame Walker.


I think because its a interstate that this may be controlled by the county getting the money from the feds. As much as I hate Walker, this one may not be on him.

/that felt dirty and wrong
 
2014-08-12 10:26:10 AM  
Has Chicago been annexed by Wisconsin?  (Although I think there were more potholes in Chicago
last winter than in all of Wisconsin for the entire year.)
 
2014-08-12 11:22:42 AM  

Fish in a Barrel: yukichigai: DarkVader: Asphalt over concrete.  ALWAYS a really really stupid idea.

Ayup.  I used to work for NDOT as a pavement analyst (fancy way of saying road tester).  Asphalt over Concrete cracking was actually its own type of damage in our identification system.

[www.pavemanpro.com image 585x347]

That's the best photo I could find on the publicly available websites.  Internally we had some photos that show the exact kind of thing this article is talking about.  Looks like a series of speed bumps in the road every ten feet.  Freakin' awful.

I think it's done to protect the sanity of the drivers.  On any concrete road you'll get a little thump at the boundary between slabs, but it's usually pretty minor.  In WI it tends to be very loud.  Try driving somewhere for two hours with a constant, rhythmic  Thu-Thud! Thu-Thud! Thu-Thud! Thu-Thud! that just won't let up, and even rocks the car a bit.  It's like torture.  That's also why WI drivers don't keep right, because the left-hand lane is generally quieter.  It's surprisingly consistent across all of their highways, like they have just one paver and it's farked up.  Anyhow, counties will lay asphalt over it, and you'll cry out in joy when you reach one of those sections.


The thing is, that's probably the worst thing they could be doing to actually fix the problem.  The Thu-Thud! effect is typically caused not by the gap in the concrete, but by the slab the vehicle is on having a different elevation than the one it is going to.  While sometimes the level of the slab shifts naturally, it also shifts slightly every time a vehicle is on it.  Also, the more vehicles on it over time, the more it'll shift generally.

Anyway, the point is, the best thing you can do to stop that stupid Thu-Thud! issue, aside from filling in the big obvious cracks as needed, is to ensure there's adequate transference between each slab.  Easiest way to do that is what's called a dowel bar retrofit, which is where they basically link the slabs with pieces of rebar.

www.interstateimprovement.com

You typically do two sets of three on the front and back of each slab.  That's enough to ensure the slabs match approximate elevation as cars travel over them, but the rebar is flexible enough that it doesn't prevent the concrete from moving if necessary.

Of course, doing a dowel bar retrofit takes time and money, whereas you can just get any idiot with a paver to do the asphalt over the top.  Nevermind the fact it often makes the problem worse in as little as a year, at least it's cheap.
 
2014-08-12 11:52:02 AM  

farkingbubbler: DarkVader: Asphalt over concrete.  ALWAYS a really really stupid idea.

This.

Also Wisconsin is repaving a portion of I43 in Walworth County. Again, it's the asphalt-over-concrete method. A NORMAL(non-Walker governed) state would repair any buckles in the concrete first, then lay a base layer of asphalt before the finish layer (with striping).

WisDOT actually had them grind the entire concrete base a few inches ( with some sections randomly removed entirely and replaced with a mix of soil and rocks) before applying the first coat. And they couldn't find it in their hearts to complete one lane first- drivers had to serpentine through 12 miles of this shiat. The messed up joints were never fixed, and the newly-created soil/rock repairs created dips that could make a car disappear.

But it gets better. Once the first coat of asphalt was laid, now it's time to dust off the ol' grinder and take it OFF! And...wait for it...they LEFT IT that way, loose stones and all (to invariably make their way through someone's windshield).

Now they are starting to place coat #2 in some spots. Still no joint repairs. And all of this will last through late November.

This is the southbound side from Mukwonago to Elkhorn. Last year they did the northbound lanes, where they laid the first layer, THEN attempted to repair joints with concrete through the blacktop, then finished it. Still took em through farking November.

So yes, I also blame Walker.


There's no way to properly put asphalt directly over concrete.   It really doesn't matter if you put a base coat down first, it doesn't matter how thick the base coat is, unless you're suggesting a 10 foot thick base coat.

If you want an asphalt road and you have a concrete road, and if you have any interest in the road surface being decent for more than a year, your choices are:

1.  Remove the concrete.  You can crush it and return it to the roadbed as aggregate if you like.

2.  Put a thick (1-2 foot) layer of base stone over the concrete, then put a layer of base asphalt over the stone.

That's it.  If you put asphalt directly over concrete, you are guaranteed to have a far worse road surface than you started with in 1-2 years.  The different expansion and contraction rates of the materials guarantees it.
 
2014-08-12 11:57:01 AM  

yukichigai: The thing is, that's probably the worst thing they could be doing to actually fix the problem. The Thu-Thud! effect is typically caused not by the gap in the concrete, but by the slab the vehicle is on having a different elevation than the one it is going to. While sometimes the level of the slab shifts naturally, it also shifts slightly every time a vehicle is on it. Also, the more vehicles on it over time, the more it'll shift generally.

Anyway, the point is, the best thing you can do to stop that stupid Thu-Thud! issue, aside from filling in the big obvious cracks as needed, is to ensure there's adequate transference between each slab. Easiest way to do that is what's called a dowel bar retrofit, which is where they basically link the slabs with pieces of rebar.

www.interstateimprovement.com

You typically do two sets of three on the front and back of each slab. That's enough to ensure the slabs match approximate elevation as cars travel over them, but the rebar is flexible enough that it doesn't prevent the concrete from moving if necessary.

Of course, doing a dowel bar retrofit takes time and money, whereas you can just get any idiot with a paver to do the asphalt over the top. Nevermind the fact it often makes the problem worse in as little as a year, at least it's cheap.


Cheap is a relative thing.  A well built concrete road surface can easily make it 50 years.  An asphalt surface is virtually never going to be in good shape at 15 years.
 
2014-08-12 01:46:53 PM  

yukichigai: The thing is, that's probably the worst thing they could be doing to actually fix the problem.  The Thu-Thud! effect is typically caused not by the gap in the concrete, but by the slab the vehicle is on having a different elevation than the one it is going to.  While sometimes the level of the slab shifts naturally, it also shifts slightly every time a vehicle is on it.  Also, the more vehicles on it over time, the more it'll shift generally.

Anyway, the point is, the best thing you can do to stop that stupid Thu-Thud! issue, aside from filling in the big obvious cracks as needed, is to ensure there's adequate transference between each slab.  Easiest way to do that is what's called a dowel bar retrofit, which is where they basically link the slabs with pieces of rebar.

You typically do two sets of three on the front and back of each slab.  That's enough to ensure the slabs match approximate elevation as cars travel over them, but the rebar is flexible enough that it doesn't prevent the concrete from moving if necessary.

Of course, doing a dowel bar retrofit takes time and money, whereas you can just get any idiot with a paver to do the asphalt over the top.  Nevermind the fact it often makes the problem worse in as little as a year, at least it's cheap.


That looks familiar.  I think they did that all over St. Louis a couple of years ago.  They also smoothed out all of the concrete by grinding a thin layer off the top, which made a huge difference in road noise.
 
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