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(Yahoo)   The exporting of US-style democracy to the Middle East gains its first major success, as the Iraqi prime minister is suing the president for violating the constitution   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 39
    More: Obvious, Iraq PM, battles, Iraqi soldiers, prime ministers, Maliki, rage, unusual number  
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517 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Aug 2014 at 11:17 AM (18 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



39 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-08-11 09:24:49 AM  
???
 
2014-08-11 10:51:56 AM  

Diogenes: ???


Not President Obama.

Iraqi President Fuad Masam.

He chose another shiite over Premier Maliki as the Prime Minister candidate for the shiite block in Parliament.

Basically getting the shiite block nod here is like winning the Republican primary in Alabama.

Haidar al-Abadi is the new guy.

Dunno anything about him other than the fact that he's not Maliki and that's a good thing cos Maliki did every possible thing imaginable to divide the country and make it ripe for an ISIS take over.

Everyone knows that nothing useful was gonna get done while Maliki stuck around but the SOB has refused to take a hint so far and just used a speech event to threaten to sue the President over not being chosen for the nomination because Constitution apparently.

Empty posturing. He's going down for the count and I say good riddance to bad rubbish.
 
2014-08-11 11:06:42 AM  

quatchi: Diogenes: ???


Article changed after I posted.  That was my confusion.
 
2014-08-11 11:28:31 AM  
What's the over/under on his life expectancy?
 
2014-08-11 11:30:37 AM  

quatchi: Diogenes: ???

Not President Obama.

Iraqi President Fuad Masam.

He chose another shiite over Premier Maliki as the Prime Minister candidate for the shiite block in Parliament.

Basically getting the shiite block nod here is like winning the Republican primary in Alabama.

Haidar al-Abadi is the new guy.

Dunno anything about him other than the fact that he's not Maliki and that's a good thing cos Maliki did every possible thing imaginable to divide the country and make it ripe for an ISIS take over.

Everyone knows that nothing useful was gonna get done while Maliki stuck around but the SOB has refused to take a hint so far and just used a speech event to threaten to sue the President over not being chosen for the nomination because Constitution apparently.

Empty posturing. He's going down for the count and I say good riddance to bad rubbish.


Well except VOA was reporting that Maliki had moved Iraqi army ans special forces units believed to be personally loyal to him to key points in the Iraqi capital.   I think he make try a military coup, and THAT would present serious problems and a major opportunity for the US, especially if they made sure he was "killed in the fighting:
 
2014-08-11 11:39:47 AM  
Democracy:  It's not for everyone!
 
2014-08-11 11:41:19 AM  

quatchi: Diogenes: ???

Not President Obama.

Iraqi President Fuad Masam.

He chose another shiite over Premier Maliki as the Prime Minister candidate for the shiite block in Parliament.

Basically getting the shiite block nod here is like winning the Republican primary in Alabama.

Haidar al-Abadi is the new guy.

Dunno anything about him other than the fact that he's not Maliki and that's a good thing cos Maliki did every possible thing imaginable to divide the country and make it ripe for an ISIS take over.

Everyone knows that nothing useful was gonna get done while Maliki stuck around but the SOB has refused to take a hint so far and just used a speech event to threaten to sue the President over not being chosen for the nomination because Constitution apparently.

Empty posturing. He's going down for the count and I say good riddance to bad rubbish.


Abadi, Abada, life goes on/la la la la la la la life goes on!
 
2014-08-11 11:41:28 AM  
 
2014-08-11 11:50:14 AM  
Why did 0bama decide to do all that empire building?
 
2014-08-11 11:55:39 AM  
You know, if Iraq had the equivalent of the Fark Politics tab, they'd be right as rain.
 
2014-08-11 11:56:24 AM  
Wikipedia: On 22 April 2006, following close U.S. involvement in the selection of a new prime minister, al-Maliki's name arose from the four that had been interviewed by the CIA on their connections to Iran.

So it's another epic fail for the Bush Admin in Iraq. What a surprise.
 
2014-08-11 11:58:24 AM  

AirForceVet: You know, if Iraq had the equivalent of the Fark Politics tab, they'd be right as rain.


If the people in the Fark Politics Tab were able to violently kill each other, we'd be right as rain.
 
2014-08-11 12:00:54 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: Wikipedia: On 22 April 2006, following close U.S. involvement in the selection of a new prime minister, al-Maliki's name arose from the four that had been interviewed by the CIA on their connections to Iran.

So it's another epic fail for the Bush Admin in Iraq. What a surprise.


:|

Bush chose a dud.  He supported him - heck, he mentored him in how to be a politician.

Obama washed his hands of Iraq, and continued to support that dud.

He didn't want Iraq to be part of his legacy.  Whoops!  Looks like it will be.
 
2014-08-11 12:06:29 PM  

sendtodave: shower_in_my_socks: Wikipedia: On 22 April 2006, following close U.S. involvement in the selection of a new prime minister, al-Maliki's name arose from the four that had been interviewed by the CIA on their connections to Iran.

So it's another epic fail for the Bush Admin in Iraq. What a surprise.

:|

Bush chose a dud.  He supported him - heck, he mentored him in how to be a politician.

Obama washed his hands of Iraq, and continued to support that dud.

He didn't want Iraq to be part of his legacy.  Whoops!  Looks like it will be.


Well, sure. What choice did he have?
 
2014-08-11 12:06:33 PM  
Mission Accomplished I guess?

Now we just need to wait for the McDonalds and Starbucks to start appearing.
 
2014-08-11 12:07:24 PM  

sendtodave: Obama washed his hands of Iraq, and continued to support that dud.


Supported him how? By refusing to help Iraq against ISIS until Maliki steps down? By having the State Dept. publicly back Maliki's opponent?
 
2014-08-11 12:08:27 PM  

RadiomanATL: Now we just need to wait for the McDonalds and Starbucks to start appearing.


If the Iraqis would just go back to shopping at the mall, ISIS would lose.
 
2014-08-11 12:09:19 PM  

qorkfiend: Well, sure. What choice did he have?


To, uh, not do that?

shower_in_my_socks: Supported him how? By refusing to help Iraq against ISIS until Maliki steps down? By having the State Dept. publicly back Maliki's opponent?


December 12, 2011 | 39:35 | Public Domain

President Obama and Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki of Iraq reaffirm their common vision of a long-term partnership between the United States and Iraq.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-video/video/2011/12/12/presiden t- obama-s-press-conference-prime-minister-maliki
 
2014-08-11 12:10:30 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: Wikipedia: On 22 April 2006, following close U.S. involvement in the selection of a new prime minister, al-Maliki's name arose from the four that had been interviewed by the CIA on their connections to Iran.

So it's another epic fail for the Bush Admin in Iraq. What a surprise.


The fact that the President overlooked al-Maliki in favor of al-Abadi when the US has been saying for a while that Maliki should step down to help begin the healing process of the sectarian rift that has grown under his administration while Maliki refused (and many were arguing that America should hold off air strikes and other supports until Maliki agreed to step down) makes me more than a little skeptical we didn't have a hand in this process this time either.

I agree it was time for him to go if only because getting rid of ISIS would do nothing to actually eliminate the conflict in Iraq: either Maliki would need to ramp up the violence to maintain control of Sunni areas through fear (the way Saddam kept Shia areas under control through fear) or the same sort of group would end up taking control again because the animosity feeding local support of ISIS hasn't been addressed.
 
2014-08-11 12:11:39 PM  

sendtodave: qorkfiend: Well, sure. What choice did he have?


To, uh, not do that?


Sure, don't bother to complete the thought. Here, I'll even make it easy for you.

Fill in the blank: "To, uh, not do that, and do ________ instead?"
 
2014-08-11 12:22:09 PM  

Grungehamster: makes me more than a little skeptical we didn't have a hand in this process this time either.


Oh, I have zero doubt that we had a hand in this process. He and the State Dept. have all but said so publicly. And I don't fault Bush for having a hand in it back in 2006 - I fault him for backing a divisive @sshole. This new guy's resume sounds a lot better:

Abadi is a low-key figure who spent time in Britain. According to his Facebook biography, his favorite quotation is "the key to leadership is tolerance". Educated at the University of Manchester, Abadi served as the head of parliament's finance committee, a political advisor to the prime minister and minister of communications.
 
2014-08-11 12:22:25 PM  

Magorn: quatchi: Diogenes: ???

Not President Obama.

Iraqi President Fuad Masam.

He chose another shiite over Premier Maliki as the Prime Minister candidate for the shiite block in Parliament.

Basically getting the shiite block nod here is like winning the Republican primary in Alabama.

Haidar al-Abadi is the new guy.

Dunno anything about him other than the fact that he's not Maliki and that's a good thing cos Maliki did every possible thing imaginable to divide the country and make it ripe for an ISIS take over.

Everyone knows that nothing useful was gonna get done while Maliki stuck around but the SOB has refused to take a hint so far and just used a speech event to threaten to sue the President over not being chosen for the nomination because Constitution apparently.

Empty posturing. He's going down for the count and I say good riddance to bad rubbish.

Well except VOA was reporting that Maliki had moved Iraqi army ans special forces units believed to be personally loyal to him to key points in the Iraqi capital.   I think he make try a military coup, and THAT would present serious problems and a major opportunity for the US, especially if they made sure he was "killed in the fighting:


Maliki is already claiming there has been a coup, because he wasn't put in charge of the new government.  He called his friends in the special forces in to restore constitutional order or some crap like that.  If the shiites and Kurds start fighting (President Masum is a Kurd) it's pretty much over.
 
2014-08-11 12:24:46 PM  

qorkfiend: sendtodave: qorkfiend: Well, sure. What choice did he have?


To, uh, not do that?

Sure, don't bother to complete the thought. Here, I'll even make it easy for you.

Fill in the blank: "To, uh, not do that, and do ________ instead?"


[WASH HANDS OF IRAQ] [DON'T WASH HANDS OF IRAQ] 

Something in the latter category.  Anything.

Oh, but what could he have done!  Nothing, nothing!

Iunno, put political pressure on Maliki from the onset?  Force him to step down months ago.  We knew he was a dud back then.  A dud who was consolidating power.

Or, commit more military, which we will have to do anyway, back when it would have helped.
 
2014-08-11 12:28:04 PM  

sendtodave: qorkfiend: sendtodave: qorkfiend: Well, sure. What choice did he have?


To, uh, not do that?

Sure, don't bother to complete the thought. Here, I'll even make it easy for you.

Fill in the blank: "To, uh, not do that, and do ________ instead?"

[WASH HANDS OF IRAQ] [DON'T WASH HANDS OF IRAQ]
Something in the latter category.  Anything.

Oh, but what could he have done!  Nothing, nothing!

Iunno, put political pressure on Maliki from the onset?  Force him to step down months ago.  We knew he was a dud back then.  A dud who was consolidating power.

Or, commit more military, which we will have to do anyway, back when it would have helped.


So, your suggested course of action is that Obama publicly repudiate the Iraqi government? What do you think this would have accomplished?
 
2014-08-11 12:35:31 PM  

sendtodave: Iunno, put political pressure on Maliki from the onset?  Force him to step down months ago.


So publicly force an elected official of a sovereign nation out of office while still serving his term? This is why you aren't in charge of anything.

Things are working out just fine. Maliki is out, unless he launches a coup, and a moderate is taking over. We're now giving air support and weapons to the Kurds to fight ISIS, and with Maliki out, we will likely begin coordinated air strikes with Iraq's military.
 
2014-08-11 12:37:43 PM  

qorkfiend: So, your suggested course of action is that Obama publicly repudiate the Iraqi government? What do you think this would have accomplished?


My suggested course of action would be to not drop them like a hot potato.  How we put pressure on Maliki to play nice would be up to the guys whose job it is to pressure or assassinate foreign leaders.

Point being, we broke their country, we would need to stay for a generation or two to fix it.  At least.  Public wouldn't have that, they didn't want that, so, we pull out.  Military leaders go "oh, noooo."

And we are right back where we were.

Washing our hands of Iraq solved nothing.
 
2014-08-11 12:47:02 PM  

sendtodave: My suggested course of action would be to not drop them like a hot potato.


As ah Iraq vet, my suggested course of action for you is to go down to your local recruiter and enlist, rather than volunteering other people's chlidren to go play white man's burden.

Or barring that you can just go fark yourself.
 
2014-08-11 12:52:01 PM  

toomuchwhargarbl: sendtodave: My suggested course of action would be to not drop them like a hot potato.

As ah Iraq vet, my suggested course of action for you is to go down to your local recruiter and enlist, rather than volunteering other people's chlidren to go play white man's burden.

Or barring that you can just go fark yourself.


So, it's good that we created a power vacuum?

Well, maybe not so good for them.  Eh, fark'em.
 
2014-08-11 12:53:47 PM  
Good news, everyone - the lawyers have arrived, so now everything is under control.
 
2014-08-11 12:56:58 PM  

sendtodave: , it's good that we created a power vacuum?

Well, maybe not so good for them.  Eh, fark'em.


I promise you I was against the Iraq invasion from some weeks before the day I got on the plane for Ali Al Salem airbase in Kuwait in 2003.

We cannot fix it through military deployment. It has to find it's own way forward or dissolve into sunni/shia/kurd states. Going back in will make things worse, not better for a number of reasons. We can support the groups fighting against ISIS militarily and hope for the best.

We cannot occupy Iraq for a generation.
 
2014-08-11 01:22:12 PM  

toomuchwhargarbl: sendtodave: , it's good that we created a power vacuum?

Well, maybe not so good for them.  Eh, fark'em.

I promise you I was against the Iraq invasion from some weeks before the day I got on the plane for Ali Al Salem airbase in Kuwait in 2003.

We cannot fix it through military deployment. It has to find it's own way forward or dissolve into sunni/shia/kurd states. Going back in will make things worse, not better for a number of reasons. We can support the groups fighting against ISIS militarily and hope for the best.

We cannot occupy Iraq for a generation.


I agree, we can't!

And that's what it would take.

This will not, can not, end well.
 
2014-08-11 01:24:46 PM  
AND

The world expect us to fix it.
 
2014-08-11 01:26:21 PM  

sendtodave: My suggested course of action would be to not drop them like a hot potato.  How we put pressure on Maliki to play nice would be up to the guys whose job it is to pressure or assassinate foreign leaders.


This just in: sendtodave will  be starring in the upcoming remake of Spaceballs.
 
2014-08-11 01:29:11 PM  

kevinatilusa: sendtodave: My suggested course of action would be to not drop them like a hot potato.  How we put pressure on Maliki to play nice would be up to the guys whose job it is to pressure or assassinate foreign leaders.

This just in: sendtodave will  be starring in the upcoming remake of Spaceballs.


I don't like to micromanage.

I elect my leaders, and delegate responsibility to them.
 
2014-08-11 01:40:13 PM  

sendtodave: This will not, can not, end well.


It would be easy enough to divide the country up, if it wasn't for the oil fields.

The Iraqi army isn't fighting because the Iraqi army doesn't believe in Iraq. The Kurds are fighting under their own flag because they believe in Kurdistan. The efforts of the United States to leave a unified Iraqi military command have been a dismal failure.

You're right, there's no way it ends well.
 
2014-08-11 01:48:49 PM  

sendtodave: toomuchwhargarbl: sendtodave: , it's good that we created a power vacuum?

Well, maybe not so good for them.  Eh, fark'em.

I promise you I was against the Iraq invasion from some weeks before the day I got on the plane for Ali Al Salem airbase in Kuwait in 2003.

We cannot fix it through military deployment. It has to find it's own way forward or dissolve into sunni/shia/kurd states. Going back in will make things worse, not better for a number of reasons. We can support the groups fighting against ISIS militarily and hope for the best.

We cannot occupy Iraq for a generation.

I agree, we can't!

And that's what it would take.

This will not, can not, end well.


That's not what it will take at all.
 
2014-08-11 01:49:26 PM  

sendtodave: kevinatilusa: sendtodave: My suggested course of action would be to not drop them like a hot potato.  How we put pressure on Maliki to play nice would be up to the guys whose job it is to pressure or assassinate foreign leaders.

This just in: sendtodave will  be starring in the upcoming remake of Spaceballs.

I don't like to micromanage.

I elect my leaders, and delegate responsibility to them.


And yet you wouldn't allow Iraq to do the same.
 
2014-08-11 02:08:23 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: sendtodave: kevinatilusa: sendtodave: My suggested course of action would be to not drop them like a hot potato.  How we put pressure on Maliki to play nice would be up to the guys whose job it is to pressure or assassinate foreign leaders.

This just in: sendtodave will  be starring in the upcoming remake of Spaceballs.

I don't like to micromanage.

I elect my leaders, and delegate responsibility to them.

And yet you wouldn't allow Iraq to do the same.


Working out well so far.
 
2014-08-11 02:10:34 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: Wikipedia: On 22 April 2006, following close U.S. involvement in the selection of a new prime minister, al-Maliki's name arose from the four that had been interviewed by the CIA on their connections to Iran.

So it's another epic fail for the Bush Admin in Iraq. What a surprise.


Well, duh. Dubya's Debacle lives on. The fun part is watching as Congresscritters fall all over each other in blaming Obama for letting this happen, in implying that Bush's carefully crafted, exquisitely balanced New Iraq was somehow destroyed by Obama's careless, ham-handed management of the situation. Sure, absolutely none of that is true, but I'm betting that some conservative Congresscritters will, in a couple of days, use this as yet another tool in their arsenal of stupidity for the 2014 election.
 
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