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(The New York Times)   Social Thermonuclear Justice, a strange game, the only winning move is not to play   (nytimes.com) divider line 76
    More: Obvious, Trayvon Martin, street fighting, social cue, George Bernard Shaw, don't feed the trolls  
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7722 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Aug 2014 at 10:36 AM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



76 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-08-10 09:19:39 AM  
You vacuous, toffee-nosed, malodorous pervert!
 
2014-08-10 10:39:53 AM  
Subby is a Rethuglican who hates the Gay, cause of his own repressed desires.
 
2014-08-10 10:44:34 AM  
www.imsai.net
Unavailable for Comment.....
 
2014-08-10 10:48:18 AM  
Last year I got into an argument with a group of people on Twitter about Trayvon Martin,

What's her Fark handle?
 
2014-08-10 10:49:57 AM  
And that's why I don't click on the politics tab.
 
2014-08-10 10:50:51 AM  
Ah, the author learned that shockingly, people on the internet find others with the same ideas, sometimes to the exclusion of all others, and you cannot penetrate that echo chamber with facts or reason or logic.
 
2014-08-10 10:51:37 AM  
Classic Blunder.

Never get involved in a land war in Asia!

i.kinja-img.com
 
2014-08-10 10:54:54 AM  
I'm sure you'll all turn on me when I say
 
2014-08-10 10:55:30 AM  
I wonder what he posted to draw the wrath of the SJW horde.
 
2014-08-10 10:55:43 AM  
I got some random lady on facebook to admit she was wrong, which was quite shocking. Then I felt bad for how aggressive I was, but still, it's nice to know that it is possible.
 
2014-08-10 10:55:58 AM  
 
2014-08-10 11:05:06 AM  

InsaneJelloTroll: I got some random lady on facebook to admit she was wrong, which was quite shocking. Then I felt bad for how aggressive I was, but still, it's nice to know that it is possible.


I can recall two times on Fark when I've said, "You're right; I'm wrong. I'm changing my opinion on the matter. Thanks for enlightening me, fellow debater!" Both times, it was taken to be sarcastic (which I wasn't trying to be). That's how weird it is to see someone do anything on social media other than defend their positions to the death. People can't believe it.

\it wasn't about Trayvon Martin. Nobody is ever changing their opinions on that
 
2014-08-10 11:08:12 AM  

Hilary T. N. Seuss: InsaneJelloTroll: I got some random lady on facebook to admit she was wrong, which was quite shocking. Then I felt bad for how aggressive I was, but still, it's nice to know that it is possible.

I can recall two times on Fark when I've said, "You're right; I'm wrong. I'm changing my opinion on the matter. Thanks for enlightening me, fellow debater!" Both times, it was taken to be sarcastic (which I wasn't trying to be). That's how weird it is to see someone do anything on social media other than defend their positions to the death. People can't believe it.

\it wasn't about Trayvon Martin. Nobody is ever changing their opinions on that


I think the lack of face-to-face interaction is why arguing on the internet rarely goes anywhere. (most humans are wired to read faces & body language)
 
2014-08-10 11:18:36 AM  
If you haven't experienced this wrath (I'd be shocked if most people have not),

Prepare to be shocked. I have not, because I'm not a f'king moron, and it doesn't take a genius to know that arguing online is fruitless. I'm shocked that the person espousing these views isn't a 22 year old who stumbled into a NYT job somehow.

After perusing the author's profile, I'm kinda surprised he didn't know this before throwing gas on that particular fire.
 
2014-08-10 11:20:00 AM  
Upset that other human beings have emotions, and opinions contrary to her own.

Posts her every thought on Twitter.

[dreadlockedhippychick.jpg]

/she'll get over it.
 
2014-08-10 11:20:04 AM  

grinding_journalist: If you haven't experienced this wrath (I'd be shocked if most people have not),

Prepare to be shocked. I have not, because I'm not a f'king moron, and it doesn't take a genius to know that arguing online is fruitless. I'm shocked that the person espousing these views isn't a 22 year old who stumbled into a NYT job somehow.

After perusing the author's profile, I'm kinda surprised he didn't know this before throwing gas on that particular fire.


I think you're incorrect.

cdn.videos.snotr.com
 
2014-08-10 11:22:56 AM  

meat0918: grinding_journalist: If you haven't experienced this wrath (I'd be shocked if most people have not),

Prepare to be shocked. I have not, because I'm not a f'king moron, and it doesn't take a genius to know that arguing online is fruitless. I'm shocked that the person espousing these views isn't a 22 year old who stumbled into a NYT job somehow.

After perusing the author's profile, I'm kinda surprised he didn't know this before throwing gas on that particular fire.

I think you're incorrect.

[cdn.videos.snotr.com image 240x180]


We are NOT having an argument.
 
2014-08-10 11:25:24 AM  

Forbidden Doughnut: (most humans are wired to read faces & body language)


Well, I argue the same irl, so thanks for not bunching me in with 'most humans' :-)

/yes, some sort of spectral autism.
//yes, more outside activity involving others sounds about what my doc summed it up to.
///yes, also superfun at parties (I think that there's nothing more inane than a party of people shaking eachother's nortybits at how similar they all think)
 
2014-08-10 11:28:00 AM  

meat0918: grinding_journalist: If you haven't experienced this wrath (I'd be shocked if most people have not),

Prepare to be shocked. I have not, because I'm not a f'king moron, and it doesn't take a genius to know that arguing online is fruitless. I'm shocked that the person espousing these views isn't a 22 year old who stumbled into a NYT job somehow.

After perusing the author's profile, I'm kinda surprised he didn't know this before throwing gas on that particular fire.

I think you're incorrect.

[cdn.videos.snotr.com image 240x180]


Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings! Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!!
 
2014-08-10 11:39:18 AM  
The author has obviously never been a conservative Christian in a Fark religion thread....
 
2014-08-10 11:44:11 AM  
Surprise. People who are aggressively defensive -- or defensively aggressive -- get into fights. That's a Social Media 101 article, but it all depends on the groups you hang with online.

I've had several online debates that resulted in either one of us changing our mind or both of us agreeing to disagree. Probably a few more than the number of times I've had to block or unfriend someone. And despite the jokes, the Fark Politics tab rarely gets very nasty.

Don't flame and you won't get flamed at. (Except when you do).
 
2014-08-10 11:46:58 AM  
Advice FTFA:

"ABORT ABORT ABORT"

Response to article:

www.traditioninaction.org
 
2014-08-10 11:48:40 AM  
The problem is not that hotheads and retards argue on social media, the problem is that the real media gives any credence to the cretins who engage in this activity.

Social media is a fart in a windstorm.  You might as well go into some dive bar and interview some soused idiot on a barstool than pay attention to social media.
 
2014-08-10 11:55:47 AM  

Lokkii: Subby is a Rethuglican who hates the Gay, cause of his own repressed desires.


Hey, it could be worse... getting into an argument over the Laws of Newton. Someone seemed to think Gravity was still a theory.
 
2014-08-10 12:00:15 PM  
Who needs Twitter. I can get into full blown flame wars with the voices in my head.
 
2014-08-10 12:01:04 PM  
Those of us on Fark knew this already.
I have, however, both admitted I was wrong on the internet and had opponents do the same.
But that was here on Fark, not on Twitter or FBook or whatever.
Crazy to think that us Farkers are actually more open to reasonable arguments and facts than the rest of the internet, eh?
 
2014-08-10 12:02:43 PM  
Echoing what a couple of posters have said, it IS possible to have civilized conversation online. Believe it or not, I think a lot of posters here on Fark (yes, including the Politics tab) are honest and on the level. I have seen time and again on many electronic forums that if you are respectful, honest and explain your opinion and/or provide evidence (to the extent it is possible to do so), most (important qualifier) people will respond positively.

The flamewar starts when personal attacks and dishonesty start seeping in. I think part of that stems from people seeing electronic communication as a "throwaway thing," a post or message posted in the heat of the moment JUST important enough to warrant typing a few words to make yourself feel better but not important enough to think about the actual message sent or what the consequence might be and sometimes forgetting that the people reading are people. And part of it in some cases might be attention-seeking, of course.

All that being said, I think submitter has a tiny pickle.

/just kidding
//i'm sure submitter's pickle is stunning.
///if submitter is male, of course.
 
2014-08-10 12:05:33 PM  

People_are_Idiots: Lokkii: Subby is a Rethuglican who hates the Gay, cause of his own repressed desires.

Hey, it could be worse... getting into an argument over the Laws of Newton. Someone seemed to think Gravity was still a theory.


I know, Right?! Everybody knows its the Law of Gravity!

/ I think they passed that 1054....
 
2014-08-10 12:08:53 PM  

silly season: People_are_Idiots: Lokkii: Subby is a Rethuglican who hates the Gay, cause of his own repressed desires.

Hey, it could be worse... getting into an argument over the Laws of Newton. Someone seemed to think Gravity was still a theory.

I know, Right?! Everybody knows its the Law of Gravity!

/ I think they passed that 1054....


That's what those Godless heathens want you to think, The earth is magnetic and the iron in our blood keeps us Earthbound.  That's why diet is important and dictated by God.
 
2014-08-10 12:09:01 PM  
If you want irony in social media flame war, tweet something positive about bullying.
 
2014-08-10 12:14:39 PM  

Lee451: The author has obviously never been a conservative Christian in a Fark religion thread....


Well, the author probably doesn't hold that the earth is < 7000 years old, man. The author probably doesn't think Genesis is a place to find meaningful answers to his questions about the universe.

I'm not saying that your views are WRONG, I'm saying that the premise of your comment is artificially biased, and needs a bit more 'real world' application.

Your milage may vary, though. Especially as you are openly following doctrine that is provable to be false using methodology that is grounded in what is measurable. Like 1+1=2 measurable.
 
2014-08-10 12:15:03 PM  

uttertosh: Upset that other human beings have emotions, and opinions contrary to her own.

Posts her every thought on Twitter.

[dreadlockedhippychick.jpg]

/she'll get over it.


So here's a question: why did some of us assume the writer is female? Check again: the writer's name is Nick which, while not absolutely definitive, strongly suggests male.

About two paragraphs in I found myself perceiving the author as female and checked the byline. You and a few others ITT clearly made the same interpretation.

Is it the subject? The tone? Something about the writer's style? Or something about us?

And yes, I realize the irony of opening a gender discussion in a Fark thread on an article about social media arguments. But I really am curious.
 
2014-08-10 12:15:15 PM  

bighairyguy: If you want irony in social media flame war, tweet something positive about bullying.


I like it.
 
2014-08-10 12:16:53 PM  
Wow, the comments have gone this long without devolving into a Trayvon Martin political/racial/social/psychological clusterfarkfest? I'm impressed.
 
2014-08-10 12:17:33 PM  

Great_Milenko: The problem is not that hotheads and retards argue on social media, the problem is that the real media gives any credence to the cretins who engage in this activity.

Social media is a fart in a windstorm.  You might as well go into some dive bar and interview some soused idiot on a barstool than pay attention to social media.


*as

"as pay attention to"

/peave
//this is how we get to language abortions like "irregardless"
 
2014-08-10 12:17:49 PM  
"Arguing on the Internet is like competing in the Special Olympics.  Even if you win, you're still retarded."

"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."   - Carlin

etc.
 
2014-08-10 12:18:44 PM  

brimed03: uttertosh: Upset that other human beings have emotions, and opinions contrary to her own.

Posts her every thought on Twitter.

[dreadlockedhippychick.jpg]

/she'll get over it.

So here's a question: why did some of us assume the writer is female? Check again: the writer's name is Nick which, while not absolutely definitive, strongly suggests male.

About two paragraphs in I found myself perceiving the author as female and checked the byline. You and a few others ITT clearly made the same interpretation.

Is it the subject? The tone? Something about the writer's style? Or something about us?

And yes, I realize the irony of opening a gender discussion in a Fark thread on an article about social media arguments. But I really am curious.


I didn't know men used Twitter.
 
2014-08-10 12:18:54 PM  
"You can never win an argument with someone on social media."  Well, you cannot win an argument with someone in the real world so why would one expect social media to be any different?
 
2014-08-10 12:19:22 PM  

Tom_Slick: silly season: People_are_Idiots: Lokkii: Subby is a Rethuglican who hates the Gay, cause of his own repressed desires.

Hey, it could be worse... getting into an argument over the Laws of Newton. Someone seemed to think Gravity was still a theory.

I know, Right?! Everybody knows its the Law of Gravity!

/ I think they passed that 1054....

That's what those Godless heathens want you to think, The earth is magnetic and the iron in our blood keeps us Earthbound.  That's why diet is important and dictated by God.


Do you know, as crackpot theories go that's not a bad one.
 
2014-08-10 12:20:08 PM  

brimed03: Is it the subject? The tone? Something about the writer's style? Or something about us?


Oh, it's something about us. As a society, we correlate weakness with femininity (yes, it's true. There's a TON of papers on the matter)

However, I was simply using it because of the dreadlocked-irony-demonstrative-meme

i1.kym-cdn.com

Sorry. I hadn't meant to specify gender of the author, just make a point.
 
2014-08-10 12:21:14 PM  

brimed03: Tom_Slick: silly season: People_are_Idiots: Lokkii: Subby is a Rethuglican who hates the Gay, cause of his own repressed desires.

Hey, it could be worse... getting into an argument over the Laws of Newton. Someone seemed to think Gravity was still a theory.

I know, Right?! Everybody knows its the Law of Gravity!

/ I think they passed that 1054....

That's what those Godless heathens want you to think, The earth is magnetic and the iron in our blood keeps us Earthbound.  That's why diet is important and dictated by God.

Do you know, as crackpot theories go that's not a bad one.


Damn, I was going for absurd.
 
2014-08-10 12:27:13 PM  

Forbidden Doughnut: Hilary T. N. Seuss: InsaneJelloTroll: I got some random lady on facebook to admit she was wrong, which was quite shocking. Then I felt bad for how aggressive I was, but still, it's nice to know that it is possible.

I can recall two times on Fark when I've said, "You're right; I'm wrong. I'm changing my opinion on the matter. Thanks for enlightening me, fellow debater!" Both times, it was taken to be sarcastic (which I wasn't trying to be). That's how weird it is to see someone do anything on social media other than defend their positions to the death. People can't believe it.

\it wasn't about Trayvon Martin. Nobody is ever changing their opinions on that

I think the lack of face-to-face interaction is why arguing on the internet rarely goes anywhere. (most humans are wired to read faces & body language)


Also, in a face-to-face, there is always the chance that one party will start punching the other in the face, which eventually leads to the physically weaker of the two backing down.

/too bad might doesn't always make right
 
2014-08-10 12:28:06 PM  
the only people who think you can't win online flamewars are people who suck ass at them. I'm undefeated. too bad libs.
 
2014-08-10 12:35:59 PM  
Trying to discuss an even remotely contentious topic with someone on social media is a fool's errand.

Yet still we do it.


Sorry, whiny dude, but no 'we' don't.
 
2014-08-10 12:44:18 PM  

Tom_Slick: brimed03: Tom_Slick: silly season: People_are_Idiots: Lokkii: Subby is a Rethuglican who hates the Gay, cause of his own repressed desires.

Hey, it could be worse... getting into an argument over the Laws of Newton. Someone seemed to think Gravity was still a theory.

I know, Right?! Everybody knows its the Law of Gravity!

/ I think they passed that 1054....

That's what those Godless heathens want you to think, The earth is magnetic and the iron in our blood keeps us Earthbound.  That's why diet is important and dictated by God.

Do you know, as crackpot theories go that's not a bad one.

Damn, I was going for absurd.


It's ok, must have been your first time/ You get better with practice!
 
2014-08-10 12:50:19 PM  
You want answers? You want solutions? Debate and argument solve nothing.

Violence.

Teach them the error of their ways. Share your hate in person.
 
2014-08-10 01:27:19 PM  

Needlessly Complicated: Echoing what a couple of posters have said, it IS possible to have civilized conversation online. Believe it or not, I think a lot of posters here on Fark (yes, including the Politics tab) are honest and on the level. I have seen time and again on many electronic forums that if you are respectful, honest and explain your opinion and/or provide evidence (to the extent it is possible to do so), most (important qualifier) people will respond positively.

The flamewar starts when personal attacks and dishonesty start seeping in. I think part of that stems from people seeing electronic communication as a "throwaway thing," a post or message posted in the heat of the moment JUST important enough to warrant typing a few words to make yourself feel better but not important enough to think about the actual message sent or what the consequence might be and sometimes forgetting that the people reading are people. And part of it in some cases might be attention-seeking, of course.

All that being said, I think submitter has a tiny pickle.

/just kidding
//i'm sure submitter's pickle is stunning.
///if submitter is male, of course.

If I may paraphrase your post in 140 characters:
"It is possible to have civilized discourse online. Be respectful, honest, and provide evidence. Communication isn't just a throwaway thing."

My response in 136 characters:
"Part of the issue is that a forum such as Fark gives room for actual exposition of ideas. Twitter's 140-character limitation does not."

That was about the best I could do in 140 characters. It's sufficient to contribute to the discussion if and only if, the reader has read TFA, and has somehow managed to get the gist of your comment, which is barely expressible in 140 characters. I also had to cut off your pickle, for which I am truly sorry.

Twitter's an effective communications medium for facts ("I'm at location X. See you in 10 minutes.") and transmission of links to other data ("I agree with this guy - here's a link"), but it's not an effective forum for actual debate. The social media business model is to get users by coming up with a new way for kids to pass notes in class, and then monetizing it. In Twitter's case, its initial attraction was that it was a substitute for $0.10/SMS text messages, and the monetization strategy is to use the t.co URL shortener/redirector to see what URLs people are sharing, and the social graph to see who's influencing whom, and to target ads accordingly.

As a forum for actual debate, it fails because it was never intended as such. One of the uninentional effects of the 140-character limit is to dumb debate down to the lowest common denominator. I'm hardly a linguistic determinist, but I think there's something to the notion that our ability to engage with each other is shaped by the means with which we communicate. The social media UX paradigm of cramming everything into tiny textboxes that barely hold a sentence or two (in order to display a useful 5-10 textboxes on the screen of a typical mobile device), has shrunk the universe of things that are expressible. It's easy for us to contradict other in 140 characters, but it's considerably harder to cite evidence while doing so, and almost impossible to find the spots on which agreement can be reached - in the case of this paragraph, "I don't believe there's an Orwellian newspeakish attempt to make certain thoughts inexpressible, just a bunch of VC-funded startups trying to make money, but I do believe there's something to the weak version of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis" is still 239 characters, and even if I split it into two tweets, the first part about not-orwell-just-VCs would be 153 characters. Dammit.

/dotcom culture and the weak Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is TOTALLY 100% the reason we're all in a pickle!!1! (112!)
 
2014-08-10 01:33:04 PM  

Tom_Slick: brimed03: Tom_Slick: silly season: People_are_Idiots: Lokkii: Subby is a Rethuglican who hates the Gay, cause of his own repressed desires.

Hey, it could be worse... getting into an argument over the Laws of Newton. Someone seemed to think Gravity was still a theory.

I know, Right?! Everybody knows its the Law of Gravity!

/ I think they passed that 1054....

That's what those Godless heathens want you to think, The earth is magnetic and the iron in our blood keeps us Earthbound.  That's why diet is important and dictated by God.

Do you know, as crackpot theories go that's not a bad one.

Damn, I was going for absurd.


Pish and Tosh!

If that were true, then no one could walk by a magnet with out it sticking to them. Geshtu-E fools us into thinking that we can't leave the Earth and fly, so we don't!

/Besides Nunbarsegunu and Siris only care about what we drink anyway!
 
2014-08-10 01:53:23 PM  

falcon176: the only people who think you can't win online flamewars are people who suck ass at them. I'm undefeated. too bad libs.


No, you're not undefeated.

/evil can never win
 
2014-08-10 02:00:09 PM  
imgs.xkcd.com
 
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