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(Business Insider)   Huge cash-only transactions; mules and private couriers; no names; hiding from government scrutiny: Inside the world of illicit drugs. Lethal injection drugs, that is   (businessinsider.com) divider line 82
    More: Interesting, Monetary Economics, lethal injection, Missouri Department of Corrections, sodium thiopental, St. Louis Public Radio, death penalty, yellow jackets  
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1281 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Aug 2014 at 8:47 AM (10 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-09 12:06:02 PM  

hardinparamedic: So, question. Why don't we just give these people massive doses of research-quality heroin. The LD50 with complete circulatory collapse is 350mg. Just give them a gram, rapid IV push, and let nature take it's course


A quick and painless way of executing condemned criminals? Are you mad? The whole point of the death penalty in the US is to make sure that death row inmates don't get that luxury. You might as well suggest that crims executed in the gas chamber be asphyxiated with helium or nitrogen and die in their sleep from hypoxia instead of choking them with cyanide gas so that their last moments are spent writhing in fear and pain.

/and even if "Lethal Injection (Heroin)" was an option for execution, there's no way that option would be afforded to black inmates
//especially blacks on death row for killing white people -- the best they could hope for is "Lethal Injection (Air Bubble)" in the hopes that it's over in about five minutes
 
2014-08-09 12:10:05 PM  

Jim_Callahan: dookdookdook: Unless your idea of "harassment" is the same arson, murder, and general terrorism used by "pro-life" activists in the past.

That's... pretty much exactly what was being threatened when the secrecy rules were put into play, yes.  Straight-up credible terrorist threats, and yes, I'm aware that's somewhat ironic coming from anti death penalty people but activists have no sense of irony.

... or was that your point, and I'm interpreting sarcasm as straight-faced ignorance?

// Retaliation by medical boards and so on was not a concern, as the state governments can make such retaliation straight-up illegal with about thirty seconds spent on a simple one-line bill.  It was the physical safety of the drug company employees with respect to domestic terrorists that was the major concern.


If you consider being voted out of office "terrorist threats," then yeah. State governments are much more afraid of losing their jobs than a few "domestic terrorists."
 
2014-08-09 12:25:21 PM  

hardinparamedic:

SixPaperJoint: Jump to 36:45 for the TLDR conclusion. Spoiler: it's hypoxia. Painless, quick and humane.

Lethal injection by one drug method kills with hypoxia - alveolar hypoxia and hypoxemia induced by respiratory arrest. I can't watch the link at work, but I'm going to assume it's nitrogen asphyxiation?

Lethal injection by a one drug method - dilaudid/ativan or dilaudid/versed, and pentobarb alone have the benefit of inducing deep sedation, to the point of anesthesia. I suppose you could use an anesthesia machine-like rig to deliver a pure nitrogen-gas mixture to the condemned after inducing general anesthesia, but that increases the complexity of the process as well as the room for human error/cruelty


Michael Portillo is the investigator and subject of the documentary, and for this experiment he is put into an altitude chamber. Immediately after that scene, the documentary discusses nitrogen hypoxia. They make the process seem not as complex as what you mention and this is a film made by a politician turned journalist not a medical professional. So. I will leave the medical realities to you. IMO, it's still worth a watch, even if just to seen the reaction of the DP activist at the end.
 
2014-08-09 12:55:43 PM  

Eddie Barzoom: Son of Thunder: Pretty slick move there, anti-DP activists. Harass suppliers until they want to be anonymous, then claim that anonymous transactions are too shady to allow.

I'll pass that advice along to the pro-life activists.

Maybe you can support the government killing people in a way that looks like they are killing people and not performing some sort of medical procedure. Then we would not have to worry about the drugs. Any half a mechanic can build a guillotine.


If they're half a mechanic, something went wrong in the middle of building it.
 
2014-08-09 12:59:08 PM  

hardinparamedic: So, question. Why don't we just give these people massive doses of research-quality heroin. The LD50 with complete circulatory collapse is 350mg. Just give them a gram, rapid IV push, and let nature take it's course


I don't know if anyone has answered your question yet, but you are right, there is no reason they couldn't give a heroic dose of fentanyl ww/o midazolam or any of a dozen other respiratory depressants..  Any small rural hospital has enough fentanyl in stock to kill 100's of people.  The real problem drug is the paralytic, but the article doesn't even mention that.  You need a nondepolarizing paralytic to give the appearance the convict went peacefully and painless. This is what is really getting hard to find.  If you don't have one then they get all agonal breathing, with fasciculations and death rattles, etc.  Doesn't make one bit of difference for the convict mind you, he's unconscious, but it gives the appearance of humanity.

It's easy to kill someone.  It's slightly harder to kill someone painlessly.  But it hard as hell to kill someone painless and leave everyone else feeling good about it.
 
2014-08-09 12:59:18 PM  
nobody is better at the Death Industry than the USA.


ain't Freedom great!
 
2014-08-09 01:02:37 PM  
All Drugs are Lethal if you do too much or do enough of them over enough time.


there is no such thing as a completly harmless drug.  they all have varying degrees of negative side effects.  if they did not, they wouldn't be called Drugs.
 
2014-08-09 01:11:08 PM  

King Something: hardinparamedic: So, question. Why don't we just give these people massive doses of research-quality heroin. The LD50 with complete circulatory collapse is 350mg. Just give them a gram, rapid IV push, and let nature take it's course

A quick and painless way of executing condemned criminals? Are you mad? The whole point of the death penalty in the US is to make sure that death row inmates don't get that luxury. You might as well suggest that crims executed in the gas chamber be asphyxiated with helium or nitrogen and die in their sleep from hypoxia instead of choking them with cyanide gas so that their last moments are spent writhing in fear and pain.

/and even if "Lethal Injection (Heroin)" was an option for execution, there's no way that option would be afforded to black inmates
//especially blacks on death row for killing white people -- the best they could hope for is "Lethal Injection (Air Bubble)" in the hopes that it's over in about five minutes


You are correct.  Anti Death Penalty activists have spent the last 10 years trying to make executions as painful and gruesome as possible.  All in the name of trying to get them outlawed because they are more painful and gruesome than necessary.
 
2014-08-09 01:28:17 PM  
I support the idea of capital punishment, but there isn't enough 'justice' in the American justice system for me to trust it. When justice is based on the size of your bank account and the color of your skin, it is not a system that can be trusted to fairly administer capital punishment.  So I oppose capital punishment in America.
 
2014-08-09 02:02:11 PM  
This is why I don't consider the US a civilized country.  As a society, we go to greater lengths to kill our convicts than we do to feed our children.
 
2014-08-09 02:11:30 PM  

baka-san: The death penalty serves no purpose other than to allow DA's to say they are "tough of crime"


Well, that and making sure scumbags can't continue to victimize other people (guards and inmates). But yea, other than that it doesn't do anything. Oh, and it makes sure a family can sleep at night knowing the hate-filled racists who killed their father will never ever ever get out of jail and come after them. But yea, other than those two things... it does nothing.
 
2014-08-09 02:16:22 PM  
I want everyone who is for the death penalty to be falsely arrested, convicted of a capital crime, and sentenced to death. Then come back to me and report how strongly you support the death penalty or how long the appeals process should be.
 
2014-08-09 02:17:22 PM  

Greek: Giltric: firefly212: I May Be Crazy But...: Apparently a lot of veterinarians are taught how to use a gun to put down an animal humanely. You know, one bullet that scrambles the brain. Obviously that's not going to come in handy so much for a small animal vet, but apparently it's occasionally a good thing to know when there's a cow suffering seriously. Just do that. Yeah, it's gruesome, but what's that matter to the guy being killed? Nobody is forced to watch.

Maybe the public should be forced to watch what's being done in their name. Maybe if people had to actually see the results of the system the vote for, they would vote for something better.

Ive been watching alot of liveleak videos recently.....

It would probably too difficult to have them ejected from a car doing 80mph.

How about pushing a metal scaffold up against some high tension wires instead?

Maybe let them get caught in a lathe?

Oh, jeez... Don't remind me of the "caught in a lathe" one. I accidentally came across a picture of that once while researching machine tools. That... was a disturbing picture.

For the love of God, Farkers, don't GIS this one. I found it unintentionally, and I think it scarred be for life. I don't like being anywhere near spinning metal shafts of any type anymore after seeing it, which, if I didn't take precautions, would be bad for my line of work.


Got a safety notice at work one day. A worker tried jammed a momentary switch so he could feed wiring onto a hydraulic spool. And boy did he manually feed it. Took a half hour before he was found bound to a spool that had lashed him with cabling like some twisted Clive Barker fetish.
 
2014-08-09 02:36:13 PM  

baka-san: The death penalty serves no purpose other than to allow DA's to say they are "tough of crime"


WRONG! The death penalty is a crime deterrent, obviously. There is a 0% recidivism rate amongst the executed.
 
2014-08-09 02:38:50 PM  

cchris_39: FTA -

Because the Danish maker of pentobarbital is now refusing to supply that drug to corrections departments.....

Ok you have until the close of business tomorrow to resume shipping or your U.S. patent goes in the shredder.


www.quickmeme.com

And neither do patents.
 
2014-08-09 03:25:56 PM  
Jack Kevorkian seemed to be able to do it humanely, but that's part of the problem, people want to see them punished and suffer one last time.
 
2014-08-09 03:32:14 PM  

Mrbogey: baka-san: The death penalty serves no purpose other than to allow DA's to say they are "tough of crime"

Well, that and making sure scumbags can't continue to victimize other people (guards and inmates). But yea, other than that it doesn't do anything. Oh, and it makes sure a family can sleep at night knowing the hate-filled racists who killed their father will never ever ever get out of jail and come after them. But yea, other than those two things... it does nothing.


You think people who are sentenced to death row will ever get out of jail? Also don't these inmates stay in the system for years? How dangerous have they been exactly?
 
2014-08-09 03:47:37 PM  

cchris_39: hardinparamedic: cchris_39: FTA -

Because the Danish maker of pentobarbital is now refusing to supply that drug to corrections departments.....

Ok you have until the close of business tomorrow to resume shipping or your U.S. patent goes in the shredder.

The Swedish government prohibits the export of drugs specifically used to end human life in judicial execution as a violation of human rights.

It

Ah.  Well then, let's tear up their patent now.


Well, since the patent isn't for a drug that kills people and is instead a drug to help save people's lives, I think the international community might frown on those shenanigans.  And I think you vastly overestimate our importance in the global economy.

But dick swinging IS fun, right?
 
2014-08-09 04:15:05 PM  

Mrbogey: baka-san: The death penalty serves no purpose other than to allow DA's to say they are "tough of crime"

Well, that and making sure scumbags can't continue to victimize other people (guards and inmates). But yea, other than that it doesn't do anything. Oh, and it makes sure a family can sleep at night knowing the hate-filled racists who killed their father will never ever ever get out of jail and come after them. But yea, other than those two things... it does nothing.


since you have complete trust in the government to kill the right people 100% of the time why don't you have complete trust in the government to keep the victims families safe?
 
2014-08-09 04:50:37 PM  

i.imgur.comSon of Thunder: Pretty slick move there, anti-DP activists. Harass suppliers until they want to be anonymous, then claim that anonymous transactions are too shady to allow.

I'll pass that advice along to the pro-life activists.

 
2014-08-09 04:59:02 PM  

Halli: You think people who are sentenced to death row will ever get out of jail? Also don't these inmates stay in the system for years? How dangerous have they been exactly?


Sometimes lifers do get out. Sometimes they escape. It happens. Sometimes death row and lifers will kill, rape, or assault guards and prisoners. It happens.
 
2014-08-09 05:08:42 PM  

Mrbogey: Halli: You think people who are sentenced to death row will ever get out of jail? Also don't these inmates stay in the system for years? How dangerous have they been exactly?

Sometimes lifers do get out. Sometimes they escape. It happens. Sometimes death row and lifers will kill, rape, or assault guards and prisoners. It happens.


How frequently does this happen exactly?
 
2014-08-09 05:11:54 PM  

Jim_Callahan: // Retaliation by medical boards and so on was not a concern, as the state governments can make such retaliation straight-up illegal with about thirty seconds spent on a simple one-line bill.


You're talking about medical boards enforcing ethics regs against anyone who helps in an execution? Wow. Saving the day, state governments, making it illegal to have standards of depravity that medical workers may not fall below...
 
2014-08-09 05:56:43 PM  

fifthhorseman: Tyrone Slothrop: I say we should bring back public hanging. Let people see what is on the end of their newspaper spoon, as Burroughs said.

Let's go all-in and initiate for-profit public hangings.  Snap the neck, drain the blood and harvest the organs on the spot.  Donate the blood to the local blood bank, and sell the organs to the Chinese.  I just want 2.5% of the profits for the idea.


You'll have to fight Larry Niven for the profits. He was predicting death penalties to stock the organ banks back in the '70s.
 
2014-08-09 07:34:32 PM  
A rope is reusable. Bullets are cheap.
 
2014-08-09 07:37:36 PM  

The Name: This is why I don't consider the US a civilized country.  As a society, we go to greater lengths to kill our convicts than we do to feed our children.


Oh please. Kids are fat and throwing away food.
 
2014-08-09 08:19:43 PM  

Jim_Callahan: dookdookdook: Unless your idea of "harassment" is the same arson, murder, and general terrorism used by "pro-life" activists in the past.

That's... pretty much exactly what was being threatened when the secrecy rules were put into play, yes.  Straight-up credible terrorist threats, and yes, I'm aware that's somewhat ironic coming from anti death penalty people but activists have no sense of irony.

... or was that your point, and I'm interpreting sarcasm as straight-faced ignorance?


Citation? Genuinely curious. The Googles are giving me lots of assertions of harassment of death penalty drug providers by anti-death penalty activists, but coming up short on documenting it.
 
2014-08-09 08:20:10 PM  
why is it such a fad for a killer to receive a painless death?

did they kill their victims painlessly?
 
2014-08-09 09:14:52 PM  

ILostMyPassword: Son of Thunder: Pretty slick move there, anti-DP activists. Harass suppliers until they want to be anonymous, then claim that anonymous transactions are too shady to allow.

I'll pass that advice along to the pro-life activists.

I'm confused at what you mean, isn't being against the death penalty the very definition of pro-life.  How can somebody use the term pro-life if they aren't anti-death penalty?


Oh, no, it's completely different when some uppity female thinks she should have autonomy over her own body.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get off the computer so I can make my man a sammich and then make some more signs for the next women's clinic protest.
 
2014-08-09 10:37:34 PM  

jizzler: why is it such a fad for a killer to receive a painless death?

did they kill their victims painlessly?


Because it's in the constitution.

/seriously.
 
2014-08-09 10:39:49 PM  

BeesNuts: cchris_39: hardinparamedic: cchris_39: FTA -

Because the Danish maker of pentobarbital is now refusing to supply that drug to corrections departments.....

Ok you have until the close of business tomorrow to resume shipping or your U.S. patent goes in the shredder.

The Swedish government prohibits the export of drugs specifically used to end human life in judicial execution as a violation of human rights.

It

Ah.  Well then, let's tear up their patent now.

Well, since the patent isn't for a drug that kills people and is instead a drug to help save people's lives, I think the international community might frown on those shenanigans.  And I think you vastly overestimate our importance in the global economy.

But dick swinging IS fun, right?


That drug is older than sin. There's no patent on it any more than there is patent on aspirin.
 
2014-08-09 10:56:34 PM  
How about we DON'T give our government the power to kill people who are completely unarmed, restrained, and of no threat to anyone since they're incarcerated? Oh, wait, that would require Americans to not be bloodthirsty barbarians with revenge-boners.
 
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