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(Slate)   Ten reasons President Obama won't go full George W. Bush on Iraq. Missing from the list: he doesn't have a family vendetta against the leadership and won't try to finish what his father started   (slate.com ) divider line
    More: Hero, United States, Iraq, Nouri al-Maliki, intervention, Iraqi Army, air support, Kurdistan, Iraqi Air Force  
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1075 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Aug 2014 at 10:32 PM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-08 08:15:28 PM  
And his Veep doesn't have ties to an oil company. That I know of.
 
2014-08-08 08:25:15 PM  
And yet, as we speak, he's using aircraft from the carrier George HW Bush.

Coincidence, I don't think so. Study it out, sheeple.
 
2014-08-08 08:28:31 PM  

fusillade762: And his Veep doesn't have ties to an oil company. That I know of.


Well... you do not want to fark with Big Light Rail either. Just because you are willing to take public transportation doesn't mean you're not willing to kill a biatch.
 
2014-08-08 08:30:27 PM  
The IS only controls a third of Iraq. Meanwhile the Taliban has almost half of Afghanistan, so the threshold of losing must be ceding about 60 percent before you bother with trying to stop them.
 
2014-08-08 08:35:14 PM  
Who says he doesn't have a family vendetta against Iraq? We know nothing of his REAL family history.

For all we know, his father is H W Bush, and his mother was Angela Davis.
 
2014-08-08 08:42:10 PM  
"Hero"? For not causing a total clusterfark? That's setting the bar real high.
 
2014-08-08 09:17:58 PM  
What? We don't want to spend another 2 trillion on war?I stood on Michigan avenue in 2003 and loudly mocked anti war protesters, holding pro-Bush signs. A decade, thousands of good American deaths, and few trillion dollars later, I can only be sick at that memory.Not another Goddamn American life.
 
2014-08-08 09:35:27 PM  

fusillade762: And his Veep doesn't have ties to an oil company. That I know of.


But the President and the former Veep are sixth cousins, so maybe it's just that Obama's got Cheney's back.
 
2014-08-08 09:37:02 PM  

ragekage: What? We don't want to spend another 2 trillion on war?I stood on Michigan avenue in 2003 and loudly mocked anti war protesters, holding pro-Bush signs. A decade, thousands of good American deaths, and few trillion dollars later, I can only be sick at that memory.Not another Goddamn American life.


Thank you for finding it in yourself to change. It takes guts to turn your back on previous attitudes.
 
2014-08-08 09:40:58 PM  
Rinse, repeat.
 
2014-08-08 09:41:54 PM  
The whole, "Dubya finishing what his daddy started," is completely overwrought. It's like people weren't paying attention in 1990/1 at all.
 
2014-08-08 09:42:19 PM  
That's actually a fairly realistic assessment of the current situation and strategy by Saletan. I'm kind of impressed. Meh, I'm sure it'll pass.

Maliki definitely needs to go and the Iraqis need to pick a leader who isn't a massive dick to anyone who doesn't belong to the same sect as him.

The Kurds need to be backed up with air support and supplies ASAP and ultimately they need an independent Kurdistan.

ISIS, or IS as it styles itself this week, is doomed to collapse under the weight of it's own dickishness.

America needs to remain involved in supporting the rational actors here without being drawn in to anything resembling another invasion/occupation scenario.
 
2014-08-08 09:42:30 PM  

ragekage: What? We don't want to spend another 2 trillion on war?I stood on Michigan avenue in 2003 and loudly mocked anti war protesters, holding pro-Bush signs. A decade, thousands of good American deaths, and few trillion dollars later, I can only be sick at that memory.Not another Goddamn American life.


I don't find it likely we'll be doing that.
 
2014-08-08 10:20:06 PM  

vygramul: The whole, "Dubya finishing what his daddy started," is completely overwrought. It's like people weren't paying attention in 1990/1 at all.


Yeah, how dare Saddam want to pout his own troops on the pipeline we were gonna build through his country! That's our pipeline, not his! Hell, we gave him the Key to the City Of Detroit, and this is how he repays us? It was a moral imperative that Dubya finish the job his father couldn't get done! There was no vendetta, there was only Oil!

/Football trivia question answer: The last person to receive the Key to the City Of Detroit was Jerome Bettis. Before him it was Saddam.
 
2014-08-08 10:25:14 PM  

HST's Dead Carcass: vygramul: The whole, "Dubya finishing what his daddy started," is completely overwrought. It's like people weren't paying attention in 1990/1 at all.

Yeah, how dare Saddam want to pout his own troops on the pipeline we were gonna build through his country! That's our pipeline, not his! Hell, we gave him the Key to the City Of Detroit, and this is how he repays us? It was a moral imperative that Dubya finish the job his father couldn't get done! There was no vendetta, there was only Oil!

/Football trivia question answer: The last person to receive the Key to the City Of Detroit was Jerome Bettis. Before him it was Saddam.


Getting the Key to the City of Detroit seems more a curse than a blessing.
 
2014-08-08 10:38:15 PM  

Nabb1: "Hero"? For not causing a total clusterfark? That's setting the bar real high.


Pity you couldn't set the bar there for so long then, eh m8?
 
2014-08-08 10:40:06 PM  

ragekage: What? We don't want to spend another 2 trillion on war?I stood on Michigan avenue in 2003 and loudly mocked anti war protesters, holding pro-Bush signs. A decade, thousands of good American deaths, and few trillion dollars later, I can only be sick at that memory. Not another Goddamn American life.


*touches your forehead with paw*

Ego Te Absolvo.
 
2014-08-08 10:45:13 PM  
No family vendetta. No black sheep hangups trying to prove to dad how good he is. No VP with government contractor ties to award billions in no-bid contracts to. No oil buddies to help profit. No Christian fundamentalist fanaticism convincing him that God wants him to f*ck up other people's countries. No belief that military power can solve all problems and spread Democracy.

In other words, not a total f*cking moron neo-con who thinks every problem requires a massive, open-ended, trillion dollar military boondoggle.
 
2014-08-08 10:47:22 PM  
But, I thought the mission was accomplished?
We would be greeted as liberators?
Iraq oil would pay for the war?
etc...
Maybe we will be greeted as liberators this time around?
 
2014-08-08 10:51:40 PM  
Obama also doesn't have Colin Powell to lie about the WMD they "found".

No charts and nice pictures about the mobile chemical plants.
 
2014-08-08 10:52:40 PM  

GodsTumor: But, I thought the mission was accomplished?
We would be greeted as liberators?
Iraq oil would pay for the war?
etc...
Maybe we will be greeted as liberators this time around?


All of that happened. The Lie-brul media just didn't show it. If you unskewed it, you'd know this.
 
2014-08-08 10:52:45 PM  
I don't like Obama, but I agree with how he is handling this. Let's hope this situation goes well.
 
2014-08-08 10:56:05 PM  
Does Obama have flight training, a flight suit,  and a big "Mission Accomplished" banner?

/dnrtfa
 
2014-08-08 10:57:00 PM  
How bout cause he's not Bush and constantly comparing everything he does to Bush is partisan hackery at its finest? Did that make the list?
 
2014-08-08 10:59:19 PM  

Dave and the Mission: Does Obama have flight training, a flight suit,  and a big "Mission Accomplished" banner?

/dnrtfa


Bush was the passenger on that landing so there's that.
 
2014-08-08 11:02:56 PM  

The sofa: Obama also doesn't have Colin Powell to lie about the WMD they "found".

No charts and nice pictures about the mobile chemical plants.


Power said you break it you own it....
The Neo-Cons should own the shirt hole they created.
But, they will blame the black man in the white house.
 
2014-08-08 11:03:18 PM  

Jack Lambert's Missing Teeth: How bout cause he's not Bush and constantly comparing everything he does to Bush is partisan hackery at its finest? Did that make the list?


Because of Bush, US citizens are wary of all future military action. That goes double for all things Iraq. Bush's epic failure in Iraq is at the very heart of this entire FUBAR situation with ISIS; the only reason one would ignore it would be partisan hackery by members of his political party who will never admit that he effed this up, and that the consequences will be felt in the Middle East for decades to come.
 
2014-08-08 11:04:46 PM  

GodsTumor: The sofa: Obama also doesn't have Colin Powell to lie about the WMD they "found".

No charts and nice pictures about the mobile chemical plants.

Power said you break it you own it....
The Neo-Cons should own the shirt hole they created.
But, they will blame the black man in the white house.


No need to drag race into it. The neocons are assholes by themselves.

Why anyone listens to anyone from the Bush Administration regarding foreign policy is beyond me. I guess they're examples of what NOT to do.
 
2014-08-08 11:07:24 PM  

Fart_Machine: Dave and the Mission: Does Obama have flight training, a flight suit,  and a big "Mission Accomplished" banner?

/dnrtfa

Bush was the passenger on that landing so there's that.


You gotta give him credit - it took real chutzpah for a Vietnam-era pilot who went AWOL to dress up as one and land on an aircraft carrier like a big hero.
 
2014-08-08 11:09:17 PM  
I love watching the cognitive dissonance kick in as the Obamite's guy slowly morphs into their greatest nightmare: somebody who deploys the military.
 
2014-08-08 11:12:23 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: Fart_Machine: Dave and the Mission: Does Obama have flight training, a flight suit,  and a big "Mission Accomplished" banner?

/dnrtfa

Bush was the passenger on that landing so there's that.

You gotta give him credit - it took real chutzpah for a Vietnam-era pilot who went AWOL to dress up as one and land on an aircraft carrier like a big hero.


So now we know Dan Rather's or Mary Mapes' Fark handle.
 
2014-08-08 11:12:40 PM  

jjorsett: I love watching the cognitive dissonance kick in as the Obamite's guy slowly morphs into their greatest nightmare: somebody who deploys the military.


So you were asleep during the entire 2008 campaign and the last six years after the inauguration.

You know, that explains a lot.
 
2014-08-08 11:14:05 PM  

Jack Lambert's Missing Teeth: How bout cause he's not Bush and constantly comparing everything he does to Bush is partisan hackery at its finest? Did that make the list?


Should we compare him to the OTHER guy who knocked the stuffing out of the Iraqis instead, or was that particular adventure just a footnote?  Why not compare him to the folks who propped up Iraq because it was convenient to have them duke it out with the Iranians, after we helped dismantle the most democratic government in the Middle East at the time?

We went into Iraq on specious evidence, and mind you, that particular government was hellish enough on its citizens. The problem being, we already had our hands full in Afghanistan, after Reagan abandoned their glorious freedom fighters once they got the Russians out of their country, and sort of let them stumble around without a lot of guidance, and then, shockingly, things went to Hells in several tribal handbaskets and the country became a cesspit of all the odd ducks who needed quiet places to arm, train, and plan their hijinks abroad. That's two nations knocked down, without much of a plan for the price of one, I guess, but in the end, we've paid more in blood and hard currency to prop up and stabilize nation states that we pretty much were responsible for the sh*tty situations that their people were in.

Or would you rather put this at someone else's doorstep? It's not necessarily a bad idea. WE let Reagan abandon Afghanistan and we didn't raise much of a ruckus about it. We didn't call for GW to resign when it was evident that evidence for his adventure into Iraq had been ginned up wholecloth. We allowed horrible things to happen, and indeed the American electorate was complicit with the previous Administration's actions, because we DIDN'T hold them accountable, and damn us all for that. But drawing parallels to the previous Administration's handling of unrest, and very real threats of genocide and ethnic cleansing is what analysts do. Sort of comes with the territory, and since Bush WAS the last President to order a LOT of munitions expended on the country, it doesn't hurt to show parallels AND differences. The differences ARE sort of key here.
 
2014-08-08 11:15:00 PM  

Fart_Machine: jjorsett: I love watching the cognitive dissonance kick in as the Obamite's guy slowly morphs into their greatest nightmare: somebody who deploys the military.

So you were asleep during the entire 2008 campaign and the last six years after the inauguration.

You know, that explains a lot.


And the correct nomenclature is Obamaton.
 
2014-08-08 11:17:27 PM  

jjorsett: I love watching the cognitive dissonance kick in as the Obamite's guy slowly morphs into their greatest nightmare: somebody who deploys the military.


It's fun watching you troll with the latest strawman argument to debate yourself with.
 
2014-08-08 11:18:27 PM  

jjorsett: So now we know Dan Rather's or Mary Mapes' Fark handle.


Now we just have to figure out whose alt troll account you belong to.
 
2014-08-08 11:20:18 PM  
11. He's not an FAS baby
 
2014-08-08 11:21:07 PM  

jjorsett: I love watching the cognitive dissonance kick in as the Obamite's guy slowly morphs into their greatest nightmare: somebody who deploys the military.


Yeah, I mean he KEEPS doing it, and doing it in such a way that things actually get accomplished as opposed to just blowing sh*t up. Ask the nice folks in the Taliban and various other organizations how well THIS guy has done at targeting their organization, and how well the LAST guy did. You know, the guy who said that Bin Laden just didn't interest him all that much anymore...

Presidents are Commander in Chief for our military. It's sort of in the job description already. That he continues to do it a far more targeted fashion, and having to clean up the clusterf*ck that he was left with after the willy-nilly sort of throw darts at the map and hope we can just kill a bunch of their guys approach does use up a lot of ammunition, and fuel, and that is great for the folks who sell our military such things, but it sort of puts the taxpayers footing the tab. Are you OK with throwing a lot of cash for little results?

Please, tell us how fiscally Conservative it is to KEEP throwing money at problems, instead of looking at the results and altering the approach to use LESS resources.

/ninny
 
2014-08-08 11:21:37 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: Jack Lambert's Missing Teeth: How bout cause he's not Bush and constantly comparing everything he does to Bush is partisan hackery at its finest? Did that make the list?

Because of Bush, US citizens and most of the rest of the world are wary of all future military action. That goes double for all things Iraq. Bush's epic failure in Iraq is at the very heart of this entire FUBAR situation with ISIS; the only reason one would ignore it would be partisan hackery by members of his political party who will never admit that he effed this up, and that the consequences will be felt in the Middle East for decades to come.


FTFY

Iraq blew our credibility straight to hell. Have you noticed how reluctant our allies are to trust us when it comes to foreign policy anymore?

The US lost the respect of the world when we went into Iraq and even with Bush gone, the world is still reluctant to trust us again.
 
2014-08-08 11:22:43 PM  

quatchi: ISIS, or IS as it styles itself this week, is doomed to collapse under the weight of it's own dickishness.


It depends on what the definition of ISIS or IS is.
 
2014-08-08 11:25:14 PM  
quatchi: ISIS, or IS as it styles itself this week

Did they break up over creative differences or something?
 
2014-08-08 11:26:10 PM  
No he won't go full George W. Bush in Iraq.  He will go full robotech and Daedalus punch ISIS.  Duh.
 
2014-08-08 11:26:38 PM  

fusillade762: And his Veep doesn't have ties to an oil company. That I know of.


He only owns controlling interest in a massage oil company because it better helps him negotiate bulk pricing.
 
2014-08-08 11:28:24 PM  

Mrtraveler01: shower_in_my_socks: Jack Lambert's Missing Teeth: How bout cause he's not Bush and constantly comparing everything he does to Bush is partisan hackery at its finest? Did that make the list?

Because of Bush, US citizens and most of the rest of the world are wary of all future military action. That goes double for all things Iraq. Bush's epic failure in Iraq is at the very heart of this entire FUBAR situation with ISIS; the only reason one would ignore it would be partisan hackery by members of his political party who will never admit that he effed this up, and that the consequences will be felt in the Middle East for decades to come.

FTFY

Iraq blew our credibility straight to hell. Have you noticed how reluctant our allies are to trust us when it comes to foreign policy anymore?

The US lost the respect of the world when we went into Iraq and even with Bush gone, the world is still reluctant to trust us again.


and snowden
 
2014-08-08 11:29:32 PM  
I love watching the cognitive dissonance kick in as the Obamite's guy slowly
morphs into their greatest nightmare: somebody who deploys the military.


i.imgur.com

Here, have a crying towel ya baby. It's specially packaged around bin Laden's head.
 
2014-08-08 11:35:05 PM  

Mad_Radhu: fusillade762: And his Veep doesn't have ties to an oil company. That I know of.

He only owns controlling interest in a massage oil company because it better helps him negotiate bulk pricing.


I hear he works a few hours during the holiday season at Haggar Clothing for the 25% employee discount on khakis.
 
2014-08-08 11:41:12 PM  

ragekage: What? We don't want to spend another 2 trillion on war?I stood on Michigan avenue in 2003 and loudly mocked anti war protesters, holding pro-Bush signs. A decade, thousands of good American deaths, and few trillion dollars later, I can only be sick at that memory.Not another Goddamn American life.


I respect you very much for being able to reflect on your former self.  Too many are unable to confront themselves and change.  My memories of my former self are very much pro-Bush and "pro-Murikan."  I regret that part of my past.
 
2014-08-08 11:42:34 PM  

fusillade762: And his Veep doesn't have ties to an oil company. That I know of.


If you believe this isn't about ISIL gaining control of Northern Iraq oil fields, then you're diluted.

The Islamic State (formerly known as Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, or ISIS), which sees Iraq's majority Shias apostates who deserve to be killed, also seized the Ain Zalah oilfield - adding to four others already under its control that provide funding for operations - and three towns.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/iraq-conflict-isis-fighters-seize-mosul -d am-oilfield-and-3-towns-1.2726684

US strikes coincided with the first signs that the fighting in northern Iraq is beginning to affect oil company operations in Kurdistan, an area that has become a huge draw for the energy industry in recent years.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/45140de4-1ece-11e4-ad93-00144feabdc0.html

LONDON: Oil companies in Iraqi Kurdistan began to withdraw more staff Friday as ISIS militants closed in on the regional capital, with Afren becoming the first to announce it was cutting production.
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/Business/Regional/2014/Aug-09/266541-isi s- advance-disrupts-oil-production-in-iraqi-kurdistan.ashx

And Obama's right to act now to secure the Northern Iraq oil fields.  If they fell completely into ISIL hands any economic sanctions against Russia would be useless.
 
2014-08-08 11:52:06 PM  

hubiestubert: You know, the guy who said that Bin Laden just didn't interest him all that much anymore...


If Emmanuel Goldstein Osama bin Laughin' hadn't existed, george w. bush would have had to invent him.
 
2014-08-09 12:07:30 AM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: hubiestubert: You know, the guy who said that Bin Laden just didn't interest him all that much anymore...

If Emmanuel Goldstein Osama bin Laughin' hadn't existed, george w. bush would have had to invent him.


4.bp.blogspot.com

Morris Fletcher: There is no Saddam Hussein. This guy's name is John Gillnitz, we found him doing dinner theatre in Tulsa. Did a mean "King and I." Plays good ethnics.

Ringo Langly: Are you trying to say that Saddam Hussein is a government plant?

Morris Fletcher: I'm saying I invented the guy. We set him up in '79. He rattles his saber whenever we need a good distraction. Ah... if you boys only knew how many of your stories I dreamed up while on the pot.
 
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