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(Phys Org2)   Water and air are all you need to make ammonia--one of world's most important chemicals. Well, those two; and an ashtray, a paddle game, and a remote control, and a lamp   (phys.org) divider line 30
    More: Cool, chemicals, iron oxide, hydrogen fuel cells, solar thermal, hydrogen, ammonia, Haber-Bosch process, energy supply  
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1350 clicks; posted to Geek » on 08 Aug 2014 at 9:49 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



30 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-08-08 08:52:52 AM  
Dogs required?
 
2014-08-08 09:43:01 AM  
cs1.elfilm.com
 
2014-08-08 10:04:09 AM  
And I would trade it all for a thermos. Not an ordinary thermos. It would have vinyl and stripes and a cup built right in.
 
2014-08-08 10:06:05 AM  
Always hated those cans.
 
2014-08-08 10:08:37 AM  
Don't tell the meth cooks.......
 
2014-08-08 10:15:17 AM  
"More effcient than Haber-Bosch" is a fairly tall claim. Like saying you have a 300mpg car. And then saying they can do it from just air and water as input puts this claim on terms with energy positive cold fusion. I highly doubt this is true so I am going to go ahead and call shenanigans.

media.tumblr.com
 
2014-08-08 10:18:51 AM  

Nadie_AZ: And I would trade it all for a thermos. Not an ordinary thermos. It would have vinyl and stripes and a cup built right in.


so you already have the rear-end thermometer.  good thinking.
 
2014-08-08 10:25:45 AM  
i3.kym-cdn.com
 
2014-08-08 10:29:14 AM  

tzzhc4: "More effcient than Haber-Bosch" is a fairly tall claim. Like saying you have a 300mpg car. And then saying they can do it from just air and water as input puts this claim on terms with energy positive cold fusion. I highly doubt this is true so I am going to go ahead and call shenanigans.

[media.tumblr.com image 300x214]


...of course, the headline claims "just air and water", but the scientists claim no such thing. But that's usual in science reporting.

/And that "one weird trick" is usually actually several complicated "tricks".
 
2014-08-08 10:45:39 AM  

mutterfark: Dogs required?


I don't need my dog.
 
2014-08-08 10:47:04 AM  
And electricity. And some sort of toxic electrified chemical sludge to bubble the air through.

But I like the idea that it uses less energy at lower temperature/pressure and results in hydrogen as a byproduct instead of CO2. Now let's see how long it takes to get from lab to production. I'll put the over/under at 5 years. Who wants some of this action?
 
2014-08-08 10:47:41 AM  
Pff, with a tube of toothpaste, a gel-tab of dishwasher soap and some shavings from the floor of a metal shop, I can create  LIFE ITSELF.

In that I would then have all the chemical elements found in organic life on earth.

/cooking it up is a bit tricky
 
2014-08-08 10:59:10 AM  

IlGreven: tzzhc4: "More effcient than Haber-Bosch" is a fairly tall claim. Like saying you have a 300mpg car. And then saying they can do it from just air and water as input puts this claim on terms with energy positive cold fusion. I highly doubt this is true so I am going to go ahead and call shenanigans.

[media.tumblr.com image 300x214]

...of course, the headline claims "just air and water", but the scientists claim no such thing. But that's usual in science reporting.

/And that "one weird trick" is usually actually several complicated "tricks".


From what I can gather, the process is a lot like just zapping water to separate it into component elements, except in the presence of nitrogen gas and rust to facilitate the recombination into ammonia. But I'm no chemist or science reporter, so take it with a grain of salt.
 
2014-08-08 11:03:13 AM  

phyrkrakr: And electricity. And some sort of toxic electrified chemical sludge to bubble the air through.

But I like the idea that it uses less energy at lower temperature/pressure and results in hydrogen as a byproduct instead of CO2. Now let's see how long it takes to get from lab to production. I'll put the over/under at 5 years. Who wants some of this action?


I'd invest if I had the money and knew how. Even if it requires electricity and a host of other chemicals, lowering the temperature and atmospheric pressure requirements should definitely pay out.
 
2014-08-08 11:04:43 AM  
I think I'm making the Geek tab my new home here.
 
2014-08-08 11:39:41 AM  
Uhhhhh, you also need a shiatton of energy to get those antisocial nitrogens to come play with other atoms.

I mean, there's air and water everywhere, but it ain't exactly raining ammonia.
 
2014-08-08 11:42:13 AM  
So just using electrolysis of water to release the H2 from H2O instead of getting it from natural gas? Wonder if its still efficient with how cheap natural gas is these days.
 
2014-08-08 11:53:54 AM  
This byproduct would be suitable for hydrogen fuel cells, another popular avenue for clean-energy enthusiasts goddamn morons.

Fixed that for them. Hydrogen is a really inefficient battery. It's not a power source, and it's only as clean as the electricity that makes it. If a coal plant is powering this ammonia factory, then it's coal power harnessed really inefficiently.

theorellior: Uhhhhh, you also need a shiatton of energy to get those antisocial nitrogens to come play with other atoms.

I mean, there's air and water everywhere, but it ain't exactly raining ammonia.


And the ENTIRE POINT of the article is that they figured out a way to make them play for 2/3 as much energy as the current method of making ammonia.
 
2014-08-08 11:53:58 AM  
Ammonia is a precursor chemical for ammonium nitrate, a common explosive/fertilizer.

We have to secure the air supply before terrorists blow up the sky!
 
2014-08-08 11:58:50 AM  

That Guy Jeff: And the ENTIRE POINT of the article is that they figured out a way to make them play for 2/3 as much energy as the current method of making ammonia.


You're expecting that I read TFA? LOL.
 
2014-08-08 12:20:14 PM  

tzzhc4: "More effcient than Haber-Bosch" is a fairly tall claim. Like saying you have a 300mpg car. And then saying they can do it from just air and water as input puts this claim on terms with energy positive cold fusion. I highly doubt this is true so I am going to go ahead and call shenanigans.

[media.tumblr.com image 300x214]


Some bacteria do it...

/Stupid, clever, bacteria...
 
2014-08-08 12:53:28 PM  
Oh, and that guy's artificial leg, you can't forget that...

/I really do need it!
//snicker
 
2014-08-08 01:44:36 PM  
I make ammonia using the Haber-Bosch process so I'm getting a kick etc.....
 
2014-08-08 02:18:55 PM  
A litter box will produce ammonia by the ton.  You just need a cat that will still piss in a dirty litter box.
 
2014-08-08 03:10:55 PM  
media.mytalk.com.au
You forgot the wires from the insides of a few twistie ties. In the right shape they're radio antennas AND miniature speakers for some music while we work.
 
2014-08-08 03:25:53 PM  

tzzhc4: "More effcient than Haber-Bosch" is a fairly tall claim. Like saying you have a 300mpg car. And then saying they can do it from just air and water as input puts this claim on terms with energy positive cold fusion. I highly doubt this is true so I am going to go ahead and call shenanigans.

[media.tumblr.com image 300x214]


yeah, what happened to the oxygen atoms from the water?
hydrogen gas as a byproduct... where is the hydrogen coming from to make the ammonia?
 
2014-08-08 03:30:25 PM  
(Now that I've really read the article.) This is a big deal if it pans out. I'm a little suspicious that it uses an (equally revolutionary) solar power system developed by the same guy which is also claimed to be the key to other revolutionary electrochemical processes but I don't work in this field.

As the Physorg article kinda alludes to, if it pans out it will change population numbers and food economics radically. Just like Haber-Bosch did. Some significant % of the nitrogen in human bodies and our animals is Haber-Bosch, and if it suddenly stopped working (that can't happen, I'm just illustrating the point) there would be worldwide mass starvation and catastrophe. If something comes along and does the same job radically better (that can happen, this article claims it's happening now) then pretty quickly we'll have about another half today's world population showing up.

Of course that will also mean more people shiatting in the more crowded streets of more cities all over the world than ever before...
 
2014-08-08 03:46:27 PM  

neglogon: tzzhc4: "More effcient than Haber-Bosch" is a fairly tall claim. Like saying you have a 300mpg car. And then saying they can do it from just air and water as input puts this claim on terms with energy positive cold fusion. I highly doubt this is true so I am going to go ahead and call shenanigans.

[media.tumblr.com image 300x214]

yeah, what happened to the oxygen atoms from the water?


They don't have any use for the O so they just ignored it. Common simplification in chem. C'mon even I remember this and I'm shiat at this.

hydrogen gas as a byproduct... where is the hydrogen coming from to make the ammonia?

The Licht Process is like Oprah. YOU'RE getting a hydrogen! And YOU'RE getting a hydrogen! EVERYBODY'S GETTIN A HYDROGEN!

There's plenty of Hs to go around. There's only so much Ns for whatever reason. This is also common in chem.
 
2014-08-08 04:07:20 PM  

Fark like a Barsoomian: Some significant % of the nitrogen in human bodies and our animals is Haber-Bosch


A quick googling says natural nitrogen fixation is around 140 Tg per year, human fixation is around 80 Tg per year.
 
2014-08-08 06:00:32 PM  

theorellior: Fark like a Barsoomian: Some significant % of the nitrogen in human bodies and our animals is Haber-Bosch

A quick googling says natural nitrogen fixation is around 140 Tg per year, human fixation is around 80 Tg per year.


For the rest of us, 140 teragrams =  one great-hundred billion great gross slugs.

Sorry, I just hate when people use nonintuitive units.
 
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