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(Ars Technica)   Comic artist Randy Queen, who enjoyed some modest success in the late 90s, is now being introduced to the Streisand Effect   (arstechnica.com ) divider line
    More: Amusing, Ami Angelwings' DMCA, Randy Queen, Tumblr, Darkchylde, comic book artist, DMCA takedowns  
•       •       •

4963 clicks; posted to Geek » on 06 Aug 2014 at 5:24 PM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-06 03:53:28 PM  
lobs criticism at illustrators who draw female characters in contorted, overly stylized, and anatomically impossible ways.


4.bp.blogspot.com'

everybodyeatsnews.com


OMG! These ancient criminals from herstory, why I bet they've never even taken a Feminist Studies course!
 
2014-08-06 03:53:34 PM  
Now I'm enjoying browsing through the Escher Girls tumblr.

37.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-08-06 03:58:39 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: lobs criticism at illustrators who draw female characters in contorted, overly stylized, and anatomically impossible ways.


[4.bp.blogspot.com image 576x720]'

[everybodyeatsnews.com image 480x320]


OMG! These ancient criminals from herstory, why I bet they've never even taken a Feminist Studies course!


Now tell us how it's OK because they draw men with impossibly huge muscles as well.
 
2014-08-06 03:59:47 PM  
Well, the Darkchylde stuff is some of the most egregious violators of human physiology on the Escher Girls Tumblr.  They're like porn nightmares.
 
2014-08-06 04:02:17 PM  

jayhawk88: Because People in power are Stupid: lobs criticism at illustrators who draw female characters in contorted, overly stylized, and anatomically impossible ways.


[4.bp.blogspot.com image 576x720]'

[everybodyeatsnews.com image 480x320]


OMG! These ancient criminals from herstory, why I bet they've never even taken a Feminist Studies course!

Now tell us how it's OK because they draw men with impossibly huge muscles as well.


Ugh.  The guys are never as sexy as the girls are.  Seriously, if you're going to illustrate comic books, you should watch some gay porn to get an idea of what attractive guys look like.  Hulk, Juggernaut, Deadpool: the musclebound guys are okay occasionally, but Cyclops should just be hotter.
 
2014-08-06 04:08:13 PM  

SphericalTime: but Cyclops should just be hotter.


Cyclops got plenty hot when that cruel Odysseus poked his eye out with a spear.

www.theoi.com
 
2014-08-06 04:36:08 PM  
Which is why I appreciate the realistic way men are portrayed.
img4.wikia.nocookie.net
Yep, I'm feeling pretty good about myself right now.
 
2014-08-06 05:30:18 PM  
There are people and animals suffering and dying in the world, and real human rights issues in certain countries, and this is what you take issue with? Art nearly two decades old? I think there are greater causes to champion with the limited time and energy we are given on this Earth.

I find it hilarious that instead of him focusing on the "people and animals suffering and dying in the world, and real human rights issues in certain countries", he's taking issue with this.
 
2014-08-06 05:33:24 PM  

jayhawk88: Because People in power are Stupid: lobs criticism at illustrators who draw female characters in contorted, overly stylized, and anatomically impossible ways.


[4.bp.blogspot.com image 576x720]'

[everybodyeatsnews.com image 480x320]


OMG! These ancient criminals from herstory, why I bet they've never even taken a Feminist Studies course!

Now tell us how it's OK because they draw men with impossibly huge muscles as well.


Does seem odd to not address it if they take umbrage to stylized art depicting impossible human forms.

Also, how would Streisand effect hurt this guy? More people will look at his work now? Looks cool to me.

Don't let these girls find old issues of Heavy Metal.
 
2014-08-06 05:36:10 PM  
I wonder how comfortable those women are with other people critiquing their forms. My guess is they can dish out plenty of criticism, but can't take any.
 
2014-08-06 05:37:40 PM  
They're cartoons. Who gives a fark?
 
2014-08-06 05:39:58 PM  

abhorrent1: They're cartoons. Who gives a fark?


Apparently Randy Queen does, considering he was ready to take people to court over this.

Apparently he's apologizing on Facebook right now, the poor lug.
 
2014-08-06 05:41:39 PM  
So let me get this straight, there are people on tumblr that seek out images on tumblr they don't like and then complain about them?
 
2014-08-06 05:43:36 PM  
img.photobucket.com

What a randy queen may look like.
 
2014-08-06 05:44:16 PM  

abhorrent1: They're cartoons. Who gives a fark?


You seem to or you wouldn't be posting here.
 
2014-08-06 05:45:48 PM  
Caption FTFA : Enlarge / You get the feeling there's some vital organ damage in a torso of that shape.

Nice!
 
2014-08-06 05:47:26 PM  

Enlightened Liberal: So let me get this straight, there are people on tumblr that seek out images on tumblr they don't like and then complain about themconsider this an endemic problem of the industry and collect examples and discuss it any time it comes up?


I don't entirely agree with them, but go be a dick while eating a bowl of dicks and choking on dick somewhere else.
 
2014-08-06 06:01:24 PM  

Russ1642: abhorrent1: They're cartoons. Who gives a fark?

You seem to or you wouldn't be posting here.


No. What I meant who gives a shiat if they're "overly stylized" and unrealistic? Was this some feminist or fat acceptance thing?
 
2014-08-06 06:05:14 PM  

LowbrowDeluxe: Enlightened Liberal: So let me get this straight, there are people on tumblr that seek out images on tumblr they don't like and then complain about themconsider this an endemic problem of the industry and collect examples and discuss it any time it comes up?

I don't entirely agree with them, but go be a dick while eating a bowl of dicks and choking on dick somewhere else.


If you don't like the way women are portrayed in certain comics, dont farking read them. Problem solved. It's not your job to determine whats acceptable.
 
2014-08-06 06:14:10 PM  

Enlightened Liberal: So let me get this straight, there are people on tumblr that seek out images on tumblr they don't like and then complain about them?


As far as I can tell, the entire point of tumblr is to foster ineffectual, passive-aggressive whining about things people find "offensive". It's like doing something without actually doing something.
 
2014-08-06 06:18:58 PM  
Ken from Popehat is once again being totally awesome about this, and helped her find pro bono legal representation in Canada. Probably has something to do with why he's backing off.

Overall, I agree with Ken's take on this (he's got a blog post up at popehat at the moment about this). Escher girls itself is somewhat silly, but their use of artist's works falls squarely within fair use for the purposes of criticism. And Randy Queen pulled out every tactic from the censorious douchebag playbook - DMCA notices, threatening lawsuits, claims that he owns every use of his IP ever, and attempting to suppress his victim's honest reports of his own behavior.

Looks like Queen's learned his lesson and deescalated before doubling down - good for him. Sad for us though.  I was hoping for a protracted poo-flinging match.
 
2014-08-06 06:20:21 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: lobs criticism at illustrators who draw female characters in contorted, overly stylized, and anatomically impossible ways.


[4.bp.blogspot.com image 576x720]'

[everybodyeatsnews.com image 480x320]


OMG! These ancient criminals from herstory, why I bet they've never even taken a Feminist Studies course!


Man. Any criticism that could in some way be considered 'feminism' really pisses you off, doesn't it?

"OMG! THESE EVIL FEMINISTS ARE OPRESSING THIS MALE BY MAKING FUN OF HIS POOR GRASP OF FEMALE ANATOMY! I MUST LEAP TO HIS DEFENSE!"

abhorrent1: If you don't like the way women are portrayed in certain comics, dont farking read them. Problem solved. It's not your job to determine whats acceptable.


So people can't make fun of Rob Liefeld anymore, either? "If you think his art sucks, just don't look at it!"

Got it.
 
2014-08-06 06:21:53 PM  

Elegy: Looks like Queen's learned his lesson and deescalated before doubling down - good for him. Sad for us though. I was hoping for a protracted poo-flinging match.


No, but, see, Queen was attacking dirty feminists, so it;s OK that he was being a censorious douchebag who was abusing the DMCA.

Apparently.
 
2014-08-06 06:22:27 PM  
Am I allowed to wish death upon everyone involved in this, on either side?
 
2014-08-06 06:30:45 PM  

Felgraf: No, but, see, Queen was attacking dirty feminists, so it;s OK that he was being a censorious douchebag who was abusing the DMCA.

Apparently.


Uh sure. Cool story, xir.
 
2014-08-06 06:36:30 PM  

Felgraf: So people can't make fun of Rob Liefeld anymore, either? "If you think his art sucks, just don't look at it!"

Got it.


Make fun of whoever you want. Making fun of someone you thinks sucks is one thing. Being morally outraged and calling for action against them because you don't agree with their style is another.
 
2014-08-06 06:41:28 PM  

abhorrent1: Felgraf: So people can't make fun of Rob Liefeld anymore, either? "If you think his art sucks, just don't look at it!"

Got it.

Make fun of whoever you want. Making fun of someone you thinks sucks is one thing. Being morally outraged and calling for action against them because you don't agree with their style is another.


Does the blog call for action?

Most of it, from my brief over view, is just going "AHAHA, no, female bodies do not work that way". I mean, it's got the tag "Boobs don't work that way". And deeper in it looks like it's got "How NOT to draw a bow" which has fark-all to do with social justice.

I suppose I can peek again, but my brief overview had less "THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!" and more  "Let's showcase how terriblely many comics draw women." Which.. isn't necessarily a call to action?

Elegy: Felgraf: No, but, see, Queen was attacking dirty feminists, so it;s OK that he was being a censorious douchebag who was abusing the DMCA.

Apparently.

Uh sure. Cool story, xir.


*Shrugs* I'm just saying, some folks here apparently immediately leapt to his defense, which was... weird.
 
2014-08-06 06:43:51 PM  

abhorrent1: Felgraf: So people can't make fun of Rob Liefeld anymore, either? "If you think his art sucks, just don't look at it!"

Got it.

Make fun of whoever you want. Making fun of someone you thinks sucks is one thing. Being morally outraged and calling for action against them because you don't agree with their style is another.


Hey, look who has no idea what he's talking about!
 
2014-08-06 06:51:06 PM  
This guy was smart to back off. He's in the wrong here, but more importantly, if he wants to be an artist by profession, he needs to grow a FAR thicker skin. 90% of being an artist consists of listening to (what you perceive as) undeserved criticism. If you are going to freak out to the lawyer-calling degree when somebody notices that your work is shiat (which everybody's is, to somebody), you are not going to be happy in that line of work - or likely, successful either.
Maybe this will be a maturing experience for him.
 
2014-08-06 06:51:30 PM  

Felgraf: abhorrent1: Felgraf: So people can't make fun of Rob Liefeld anymore, either? "If you think his art sucks, just don't look at it!"

Got it.

Make fun of whoever you want. Making fun of someone you thinks sucks is one thing. Being morally outraged and calling for action against them because you don't agree with their style is another.

Does the blog call for action?

Most of it, from my brief over view, is just going "AHAHA, no, female bodies do not work that way". I mean, it's got the tag "Boobs don't work that way". And deeper in it looks like it's got "How NOT to draw a bow" which has fark-all to do with social justice.

I suppose I can peek again, but my brief overview had less "THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!" and more  "Let's showcase how terriblely many comics draw women." Which.. isn't necessarily a call to action?


I guess we're talking different things. I didn't go to the tumbler or whatever link. My posts were referring to the post earlier that stated "this an endemic problem of the industry " like it was some kind of social issue that needed to be fixed. That's where I'm coming from. I dunno, maybe I just got trolled.
 
2014-08-06 06:52:02 PM  

jayhawk88: Because People in power are Stupid: lobs criticism at illustrators who draw female characters in contorted, overly stylized, and anatomically impossible ways.


[4.bp.blogspot.com image 576x720]'

[everybodyeatsnews.com image 480x320]


OMG! These ancient criminals from herstory, why I bet they've never even taken a Feminist Studies course!

Now tell us how it's OK because they draw men with impossibly huge muscles as well.


loltrap.com
 
2014-08-06 06:53:02 PM  

abhorrent1: Felgraf: So people can't make fun of Rob Liefeld anymore, either? "If you think his art sucks, just don't look at it!"

Got it.

Make fun of whoever you want. Making fun of someone you thinks sucks is one thing. Being morally outraged and calling for action against them because you don't agree with their style is another.


The only person who called for, or brought, any "action" against anybody was this rather thin-skinned and immature young artist.
 
2014-08-06 07:09:10 PM  
*shrug*  I thought the drawings were kinda hot.  Not dissimilar to other unrealistic graphical depictions of fantasy female characters I've seen.  Maybe NSFW   http://www.darkchylde.com/img/d07.jpg

/I came
 
2014-08-06 07:14:55 PM  
Fantasy comic-book art is the standard by which I judge all women.
 
2014-08-06 07:19:41 PM  
Dark Chylde?

So he has all the creative talent as the folks that brought us Wyld Stallyns and Waysted.
 
2014-08-06 07:22:35 PM  

serial arseonist: *shrug*  I thought the drawings were kinda hot.  Not dissimilar to other unrealistic graphical depictions of fantasy female characters I've seen.  Maybe NSFW   http://www.darkchylde.com/img/d07.jpg

/I came


That one at least has believable body dimensions.  The twist in the lower body is a bit off however, unless there's webbing we don't see pulling her legs that way.  In other words, it's a bit Escherey still.  Hot or not, this guy really doesn't understand how physics works apparently.

At least he's not as bad as Liefield though.  Good lord, what is wrong with that man's grasp of human anatomy?  You remember that episode of House where the painter's art comes out with all those weird perspectives because something is farking with his brain?  I feel like Liefield is a permanent sufferer of that.
 
2014-08-06 07:22:56 PM  

mcmnky: Dark Chylde?

So he has all the creative talent as the folks that brought us Wyld Stallyns and Waysted.


It was the 90s. "Y"s were in.
 
2014-08-06 07:28:15 PM  
Man, FARKers can't stand negative opinions about things. They get real defensive about it.

/Welcome to FARK
 
2014-08-06 07:32:40 PM  

Felgraf: Any criticism that could in some way be considered 'feminism' really pisses you off, doesn't it?


Let's be honest: 'feminist criticism' these days all amounts to "Stop liking what I don't like!" It is emotional and regressive. And Escher Girls is a perfect example of that. That Tumblr blog would have us believe that:

No woman ever poses provocatively
i133.photobucket.com

It is impossible to see a woman's face, breasts, and ass at the same time
fc09.deviantart.net

Women cannot have long torsos and legs
i.imgur.com


And finally, no women woman in costume would ever puts her breasts on display.
c2.staticflickr.com

All of which is demonstrable bullshiat. Q.E.D.
 
2014-08-06 07:35:06 PM  

Felgraf: Man. Any criticism that could in some way be considered 'feminism' really pisses you off, doesn't it?

"OMG! THESE EVIL FEMINISTS ARE OPRESSING THIS MALE BY MAKING FUN OF HIS POOR GRASP OF FEMALE ANATOMY! I MUST LEAP TO HIS DEFENSE!"

abhorrent1: If you don't like the way women are portrayed in certain comics, dont farking read them. Problem solved. It's not your job to determine whats acceptable.


So people can't make fun of Rob Liefeld anymore, either? "If you think his art sucks, just don't look at it!"

Got it.


I don't think the criticism is valid at all. However it's particularly worthless when it's directed from a personal perspective that requires you to accept their philosophy in order to agree with it. For example: Maoist art criticism (not valid).

But hey, just because you don't like my personal politics or me personally doesn't mean we can't share the appreciation of truly good comic artists.

i1.cdnds.net

My taste in comics suck btw.
 
2014-08-06 07:49:07 PM  

gerrymander: Felgraf: Any criticism that could in some way be considered 'feminism' really pisses you off, doesn't it?

Let's be honest: 'feminist criticism' these days all amounts to "Stop liking what I don't like!" It is emotional and regressive. And Escher Girls is a perfect example of that. That Tumblr blog would have us believe that:

No woman ever poses provocatively
[i133.photobucket.com image 640x480]

It is impossible to see a woman's face, breasts, and ass at the same time
[fc09.deviantart.net image 600x900]

Women cannot have long torsos and legs
[i.imgur.com image 850x1387]


And finally, no women woman in costume would ever puts her breasts on display.
[c2.staticflickr.com image 337x640]

All of which is demonstrable bullshiat. Q.E.D.


What... what else would that Tumblr blog have us believe...

/fapfapfapfapfap
 
2014-08-06 08:13:17 PM  
What bugs me about this thing is not the dumb "hur dur, stylized women, social oppression, patriarchy" shiat.

What bugs me is that they're taking 16-18 years old work and making a big fuss about it. Like, the guy has improved a lot since then. Judge him on his more current merits, not some stuff from the last century/millennium.

Probably just a bunch of trigger happy dumb teenagers.
 
2014-08-06 08:16:03 PM  

gerrymander: Felgraf: Any criticism that could in some way be considered 'feminism' really pisses you off, doesn't it?

Let's be honest: 'feminist criticism' these days all amounts to "Stop liking what I don't like!" It is emotional and regressive. And Escher Girls is a perfect example of that. That Tumblr blog would have us believe that:

No woman ever poses provocatively
[i133.photobucket.com image 640x480]

It is impossible to see a woman's face, breasts, and ass at the same time
[fc09.deviantart.net image 600x900]

Women cannot have long torsos and legs
[i.imgur.com image 850x1387]


And finally, no women woman in costume would ever puts her breasts on display.
[c2.staticflickr.com image 337x640]

All of which is demonstrable bullshiat. Q.E.D.


Terrific argument. Thank you.
 
2014-08-06 08:16:17 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: jayhawk88: Because People in power are Stupid: lobs criticism at illustrators who draw female characters in contorted, overly stylized, and anatomically impossible ways.


[4.bp.blogspot.com image 576x720]'

[everybodyeatsnews.com image 480x320]


OMG! These ancient criminals from herstory, why I bet they've never even taken a Feminist Studies course!

Now tell us how it's OK because they draw men with impossibly huge muscles as well.

Does seem odd to not address it if they take umbrage to stylized art depicting impossible human forms.

Also, how would Streisand effect hurt this guy? More people will look at his work now? Looks cool to me.

Don't let these girls find old issues of Heavy Metal.


warosu.org
This is the only SFW pic I could find of Druuna.
www.heavymetal.com
 
2014-08-06 08:18:43 PM  
www.craveonline.com
Greg Land laughs from his mountain
 
2014-08-06 08:30:03 PM  

rocky_howard: What bugs me about this thing is not the dumb "hur dur, stylized women, social oppression, patriarchy" shiat.

What bugs me is that they're taking 16-18 years old work and making a big fuss about it. Like, the guy has improved a lot since then. Judge him on his more current merits, not some stuff from the last century/millennium.

Probably just a bunch of trigger happy dumb teenagers.


While I agree judging him on more current work would be smarter, evolution isn't always a good thing for artists.

Take Carmine Infantino... his 60s Flash looked great. But when he returned in the 80s, everyone was lumpy and misshapen. Though IIRC, his commissioned pieces later in life looked pretty good.

John Romita Jr. did some pretty good art in the 80s... very reminiscent of his dad's work. Then somewhere in the 90s, everything became scratchy and angular, with people who had chins you could cut glass on.

Then there was that one Fantastic Four Unlimited issue in the 90s where Herb Trimpe went all Liefeld. He never heard that you don't go full Liefeld.
 
2014-08-06 08:37:14 PM  

rocky_howard: What bugs me about this thing is not the dumb "hur dur, stylized women, social oppression, patriarchy" shiat.

What bugs me is that they're taking 16-18 years old work and making a big fuss about it. Like, the guy has improved a lot since then. Judge him on his more current merits, not some stuff from the last century/millennium.

Probably just a bunch of trigger happy dumb teenagers.


Did you know that 100 years ago, women weren't even allowed to vote???

OUTRAGE!!!
 
2014-08-06 08:50:15 PM  
All that really matters here is that this young man has (hopefully) learned a long overdue lesson about being an artist, and taking criticism with wisdom and grace.
When you are a has-been, and someone gives you attention, you make something positive of it - you don't call the lawyers.
But, apparently he's figuring it out. Good luck to him.
 
ecl
2014-08-06 08:51:46 PM  

abhorrent1: Felgraf: abhorrent1: Felgraf: So people can't make fun of Rob Liefeld anymore, either? "If you think his art sucks, just don't look at it!"

Got it.

Make fun of whoever you want. Making fun of someone you thinks sucks is one thing. Being morally outraged and calling for action against them because you don't agree with their style is another.

Does the blog call for action?

Most of it, from my brief over view, is just going "AHAHA, no, female bodies do not work that way". I mean, it's got the tag "Boobs don't work that way". And deeper in it looks like it's got "How NOT to draw a bow" which has fark-all to do with social justice.

I suppose I can peek again, but my brief overview had less "THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!" and more  "Let's showcase how terriblely many comics draw women." Which.. isn't necessarily a call to action?

I guess we're talking different things. I didn't go to the tumbler or whatever link. My posts were referring to the post earlier that stated "this an endemic problem of the industry " like it was some kind of social issue that needed to be fixed. That's where I'm coming from. I dunno, maybe I just got trolled.


You are talking about your fantasy of how you believe the world is.  You do it a lot.
 
2014-08-06 09:00:49 PM  

ecl: abhorrent1: Felgraf: abhorrent1: Felgraf: So people can't make fun of Rob Liefeld anymore, either? "If you think his art sucks, just don't look at it!"

Got it.

Make fun of whoever you want. Making fun of someone you thinks sucks is one thing. Being morally outraged and calling for action against them because you don't agree with their style is another.

Does the blog call for action?

Most of it, from my brief over view, is just going "AHAHA, no, female bodies do not work that way". I mean, it's got the tag "Boobs don't work that way". And deeper in it looks like it's got "How NOT to draw a bow" which has fark-all to do with social justice.

I suppose I can peek again, but my brief overview had less "THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!" and more  "Let's showcase how terriblely many comics draw women." Which.. isn't necessarily a call to action?

I guess we're talking different things. I didn't go to the tumbler or whatever link. My posts were referring to the post earlier that stated "this an endemic problem of the industry " like it was some kind of social issue that needed to be fixed. That's where I'm coming from. I dunno, maybe I just got trolled.

You are talking about your fantasy of how you believe the world is.  You do it a lot.


I don't even know you or what the hell you're talking about. I don't think you do either. Go back to reddit and complain about cartoon characters
 
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