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(Tickld)   Why didn't Gandalf just use the eagles to fly the ring to Mount Doom? Well maybe that was his plan all along   (tickld.com ) divider line
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12393 clicks; posted to Geek » on 05 Aug 2014 at 8:39 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-05 05:43:35 PM  
The US sold "iron dome" to Sauron.
 
2014-08-05 06:46:50 PM  
If the eagles are going to fly south, why have the fellowship head north? I get the taxi to come to me, I don't go to its depot.
 
2014-08-05 06:52:19 PM  
Or ... it's just a gigantic plot hole.
 
2014-08-05 07:02:53 PM  
Probably for about the same reasons why that whore Glinda made Dorothy traipse around Oz with three weirdos and be stalked by a murderous witch instead of just telling her right away that she could just click her heels together a few times to go home.
 
2014-08-05 07:43:40 PM  
I thought it was because he couldn't trust the eagles. Which led directly to Gandalf Raping Day if I remember my WKUK sketches correctly.
 
2014-08-05 07:45:06 PM  
img0.joyreactor.com

/It's f*cking walk o' clock!
 
2014-08-05 08:02:48 PM  
Poor plans are still poor.
 
2014-08-05 08:06:15 PM  

HawgWild: Or ... it's just a gigantic plot hole.


I did like the use of "Fly, you fools!" in the theory
 
2014-08-05 08:17:48 PM  
Well, one flaw in that is that Sauron would have seen them coming, and assuming that the eagles had the numbers to hold off the Nazgul (and they could sense the One Ring, so they would know which eagle to focus on. Second, I don't know that the eagles were game to be in such close proximity to the One Ring as evil as it was, perhaps out of fear it would corrupt them. Remember - Gandalf didn't even want to touch it even when he had the chance.
 
2014-08-05 08:40:05 PM  

Nabb1: Well, one flaw in that is that Sauron would have seen them coming, and assuming that the eagles had the numbers to hold off the Nazgul (and they could sense the One Ring, so they would know which eagle to focus on. Second, I don't know that the eagles were game to be in such close proximity to the One Ring as evil as it was, perhaps out of fear it would corrupt them. Remember - Gandalf didn't even want to touch it even when he had the chance.


That's how I always read it.

Sauron had to be distracted by massive battles in order to give the li'l hobbits even a chance to sneak in without his notice.

Just flying in on some eagles would have been like Fed-exing the ring to Sauron.
 
2014-08-05 08:43:09 PM  
The Eagles taught us that you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave!

/i need a drink
 
2014-08-05 08:45:03 PM  
Gandalf was known in the Shire for fireworks, so why didn't he just create an old-timey ICBM to launch the One Ring into the fire of Mount Doom? If it went high enough I don't think Sauron would have been able to interfere.

/Only half-joking
 
2014-08-05 08:45:23 PM  
Because they were specifically described as not wanting to get involved in the war?
 
2014-08-05 08:46:10 PM  
Mostly because the eagles were just trying to take it easy and have a peaceful easy feeling, lest there be a heartache tonight.
 
2014-08-05 08:50:03 PM  

Nabb1: Well, one flaw in that is that Sauron would have seen them coming, and assuming that the eagles had the numbers to hold off the Nazgul (and they could sense the One Ring, so they would know which eagle to focus on. Second, I don't know that the eagles were game to be in such close proximity to the One Ring as evil as it was, perhaps out of fear it would corrupt them. Remember - Gandalf didn't even want to touch it even when he had the chance.


The entire plan relied on stealth. If Sauron had seen the Eagles flying in he would have known exaclty where they were headed and what they bore, and had all his troops surrounding Mt. Doom, so  there would have been no way to get the ring in. They were Eagles, not stealth fighters. And i got the impression that there weren't really that many Great Eagles. I assume like most creatures in Tolkiens Middle Earth, the eagles were a diminishing breed, with only lesser eagles being born. As far as the Nazgul, I would assume the Eagles would be as terrified of them as everyone else was. Remember, the eagles do not do battle with the Nazgul and their fell beasts until the witch-king is killed (and presumably the Nazgul are weakened).

I think the bigger plot hole was the mithril coat, sword and elven cloak that the mouth of Sauron showed the army of the west when they were at the black gate. Consider this- Sauron knew that a hobbit had the ring, at some point. Now he knows that there is at least one hobbit loose in Mordor. Now it's possible that news of the disruption at Cirith Ungol hasn't reached him yet, so he assumes the hobbit is still in custody. But even so, you would think he might be a little concerned about the purpose of that hobbit.

Of course, the logical reason is that Sauron could not imagine anyone trying to destroy the ring.....
 
2014-08-05 08:52:34 PM  
It's because the eagles are dicks.  That's all.
 
2014-08-05 08:53:51 PM  

Confabulat: The Eagles taught us that you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave!

/i need a drink


An appropriate drink.
 
2014-08-05 08:55:17 PM  
Not the eagles man, anything but the eagles.
 
2014-08-05 08:55:20 PM  

Confabulat: The Eagles taught us that you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave!

/i need a drink


Spectacular
 
2014-08-05 08:56:21 PM  

HawgWild: Or ... it's just a gigantic plot hole.


So, people are willing to believe that they had to take the ring to Mt. Doom and couldn't take it anywhere else to be destroyed. It had to be that one, right in the middle of enemy territory.

But, eagles are the plot hole? I think it's just because HISHE made the point.

There are a million ways to explain it.

1. Eagles couldn't fly over there because the orcs had anti-eagle missiles and Nazgul and only after the ring was destroyed could the eagles come pick them up.

2. Sauron could see Eagles flying and so they had to walk in order for the eye not to see them.

3. Eagles were sensitive to the effects of the ring. They could not carry it for long distances or they would turn evil and want to wear the ring.

etc etc


These plot holes don't matter. They can always be explained away by a complex enough device.
 
ecl
2014-08-05 08:56:40 PM  
I have to wonder if there is eagle/gandalf porn.  Please god no.
 
2014-08-05 08:56:55 PM  
This isn't a plot hole in the books. The movies are rubbish more or less when it comes to creating a logical framework for the story.
 
2014-08-05 09:00:18 PM  

ecl: I have to wonder if there is eagle/gandalf porn.  Please god no.


Because this is Fark and I'll get banned for posting it, I'll just say Rule 34.

No exceptions.
 
2014-08-05 09:02:53 PM  
My theory is that, out of frustration of so any theories, Peter stood up and declared. 'Who the hell cares'

It's a good story. Take it for what it is and stop second guessing the long dead author.
 
2014-08-05 09:02:57 PM  
i.imgur.com

The eagles couldn't take the Ring to Mount Doom because the Nazgul would have slaughtered them.

And "Fly, you fools!" means "Why are you just standing there with your teeth in your mouth?  Get the fark out of here!"
 
2014-08-05 09:02:57 PM  

mr0x: HawgWild: Or ... it's just a gigantic plot hole.

So, people are willing to believe that they had to take the ring to Mt. Doom and couldn't take it anywhere else to be destroyed. It had to be that one, right in the middle of enemy territory.

But, eagles are the plot hole? I think it's just because HISHE made the point.

There are a million ways to explain it.

1. Eagles couldn't fly over there because the orcs had anti-eagle missiles and Nazgul and only after the ring was destroyed could the eagles come pick them up.

2. Sauron could see Eagles flying and so they had to walk in order for the eye not to see them.

3. Eagles were sensitive to the effects of the ring. They could not carry it for long distances or they would turn evil and want to wear the ring.

etc etc


These plot holes don't matter. They can always be explained away by a complex enough device.


Point of information, m'lord. How could a giant eagle wear a ring?
 
2014-08-05 09:03:12 PM  
For the same reason we don't see what happened to Sauroman, the movie was about hobbits walking and crying and being about 9 hours and not about the story.
 
2014-08-05 09:04:13 PM  
Many, not, any
 
ecl
2014-08-05 09:06:07 PM  

docmattic: mr0x: HawgWild: Or ... it's just a gigantic plot hole.

So, people are willing to believe that they had to take the ring to Mt. Doom and couldn't take it anywhere else to be destroyed. It had to be that one, right in the middle of enemy territory.

But, eagles are the plot hole? I think it's just because HISHE made the point.

There are a million ways to explain it.

1. Eagles couldn't fly over there because the orcs had anti-eagle missiles and Nazgul and only after the ring was destroyed could the eagles come pick them up.

2. Sauron could see Eagles flying and so they had to walk in order for the eye not to see them.

3. Eagles were sensitive to the effects of the ring. They could not carry it for long distances or they would turn evil and want to wear the ring.

etc etc


These plot holes don't matter. They can always be explained away by a complex enough device.

Point of information, m'lord. How could a giant eagle wear a ring?


The eagle puts on the One Ring and Gandalf puts on his wizards hat...
 
2014-08-05 09:07:39 PM  

docmattic: mr0x: HawgWild: Or ... it's just a gigantic plot hole.

So, people are willing to believe that they had to take the ring to Mt. Doom and couldn't take it anywhere else to be destroyed. It had to be that one, right in the middle of enemy territory.

But, eagles are the plot hole? I think it's just because HISHE made the point.

There are a million ways to explain it.

1. Eagles couldn't fly over there because the orcs had anti-eagle missiles and Nazgul and only after the ring was destroyed could the eagles come pick them up.

2. Sauron could see Eagles flying and so they had to walk in order for the eye not to see them.

3. Eagles were sensitive to the effects of the ring. They could not carry it for long distances or they would turn evil and want to wear the ring.

etc etc


These plot holes don't matter. They can always be explained away by a complex enough device.

Point of information, m'lord. How could a giant eagle wear a ring?


Who said anything about a finger?
 
2014-08-05 09:11:12 PM  

docmattic: mr0x: HawgWild: Or ... it's just a gigantic plot hole.

So, people are willing to believe that they had to take the ring to Mt. Doom and couldn't take it anywhere else to be destroyed. It had to be that one, right in the middle of enemy territory.

But, eagles are the plot hole? I think it's just because HISHE made the point.

There are a million ways to explain it.

1. Eagles couldn't fly over there because the orcs had anti-eagle missiles and Nazgul and only after the ring was destroyed could the eagles come pick them up.

2. Sauron could see Eagles flying and so they had to walk in order for the eye not to see them.

3. Eagles were sensitive to the effects of the ring. They could not carry it for long distances or they would turn evil and want to wear the ring.

etc etc


These plot holes don't matter. They can always be explained away by a complex enough device.

Point of information, m'lord. How could a giant eagle wear a ring?



You can't picture an eagle wearing a ring? What, are you from Philadelphia?
 
2014-08-05 09:11:14 PM  
Or maybe things didn't go that way because then there wouldn't have been much of a story.  :rolleyes:
 
2014-08-05 09:13:00 PM  
 
2014-08-05 09:13:20 PM  

ecl: The eagle puts on the One Ring and Gandalf puts on his wizards hat...


.. and his robe. Then he casts "Cock of the Infinite"...
 
2014-08-05 09:15:44 PM  
Yeah.... that's the ticket... the eagles.
 
2014-08-05 09:18:17 PM  

DON.MAC: If the eagles are going to fly south, why have the fellowship head north? I get the taxi to come to me, I don't go to its depot.


That was explained. If you want to know the secret behind it, RTFA.
 
2014-08-05 09:18:49 PM  
I overheard a kid in a restaurant recently say he was animating a video where Gandalf and Dumbledore duel.  He said Dumbledore was going to win 'of course'.
 
2014-08-05 09:18:56 PM  
Eagles???

Why not just stand atop Mt. Doom and scream "I DID NOT READ THE BOOKS AND DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE MOVIES!!!"

/DNRTFA
 
2014-08-05 09:19:09 PM  

HawgWild: Or ... it's just a gigantic plot hole.


Not really. Tolkien himself said it was a deliberate choice because if they had, the story wouldn't have ever happened.

His reasoning in the story was the eagles are sentient beings and don't want to be farking around with humans and/or get caught in their war.

I farking hate these books, and I've seen this link 40 times on fark alone.
 
2014-08-05 09:19:12 PM  

Dinki: Nabb1: Well, one flaw in that is that Sauron would have seen them coming, and assuming that the eagles had the numbers to hold off the Nazgul (and they could sense the One Ring, so they would know which eagle to focus on. Second, I don't know that the eagles were game to be in such close proximity to the One Ring as evil as it was, perhaps out of fear it would corrupt them. Remember - Gandalf didn't even want to touch it even when he had the chance.

The entire plan relied on stealth. If Sauron had seen the Eagles flying in he would have known exaclty where they were headed and what they bore, and had all his troops surrounding Mt. Doom, so  there would have been no way to get the ring in. They were Eagles, not stealth fighters. And i got the impression that there weren't really that many Great Eagles. I assume like most creatures in Tolkiens Middle Earth, the eagles were a diminishing breed, with only lesser eagles being born. As far as the Nazgul, I would assume the Eagles would be as terrified of them as everyone else was. Remember, the eagles do not do battle with the Nazgul and their fell beasts until the witch-king is killed (and presumably the Nazgul are weakened).

I think the bigger plot hole was the mithril coat, sword and elven cloak that the mouth of Sauron showed the army of the west when they were at the black gate. Consider this- Sauron knew that a hobbit had the ring, at some point. Now he knows that there is at least one hobbit loose in Mordor. Now it's possible that news of the disruption at Cirith Ungol hasn't reached him yet, so he assumes the hobbit is still in custody. But even so, you would think he might be a little concerned about the purpose of that hobbit.

Of course, the logical reason is that Sauron could not imagine anyone trying to destroy the ring.....


I think that last note is exactly it. Sauron is the embodiment of absolute power, corruptible, and likely would not fathom one willing to destroy the One Ring.
 
2014-08-05 09:19:25 PM  
Consider that the Eagles were under the command of the Vala Manwe and that the Valar had declared that they would not fight this war for the people of Middle Earth or really do anything overt in offense to Sauron. Sauron and the One Ring were essentially ME's problem and the Valar were staying out of the actual fighting. Now they did choose to send the Istari (wizards) for the purpose of advice and encouragement, but even the wizards were prohibited from acting in their full power. All of the wizards were actually Maiar and so was Sauron, meaning that one on one, 2 or 5 on one, the wizards could almost certainly wiped the floor with Sauron as they were essentially just as powerful as him. But they weren't allowed to. The Valar prohibited them from using their full power in force, only using their wisdom and any strength or magic they would have had in their man-forms.

So given that the Valar were that committed to NOT doing anything to overtly fight Sauron or fix the One Ring issue on their own, instead choosing to only offer passive help, healing, encouragement and wisdom, it certainly makes sense that Manwe, Lord of the Valar and the one who commanded the eagles would allow them to only act in ways of rescuing, not actually letting them just destroy the One Ring themselves.

Now that is the "in world" explanation that makes the most sense to me from the book standpoint and with other books like the Silmarillion in mind. Know one can know for sure, but I would imagine something like that is at part of the reason why Tolkien wrote in such a way. He knew the whole Tolkien universe, it was his in the first place. So of course he knew his own writings about the Valar, the eagles, them choosing not to fight the war themselves, etc while writing LOTR. Perhaps he didn't include it in the LOTR books because he figured anyone who read them would be at least passingly familiar with the greater Tolkein universe and wouldn't even be stumped by the "why didn't the eagles help" question. Or maybe he forget to include it or planned on writing it in another revision. Who knows. But the "they weren't allowed to because the Valar prohibited them" explanation makes the most sense within the context of all of the Tolkien universe.

Why didn't PJ bother putting in even one line in the movies where Gandalf says something like "this was a task appointed the the people of Middle Earth by the Powers across the sea. We cannot look to the eagles to solve it for us"? Who the fark knows.
 
2014-08-05 09:20:13 PM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: How could a giant eagle wear a ring?

You can't picture an eagle wearing a ring? What, are you from Philadelphia?


Ha!  Well played.
 
2014-08-05 09:21:56 PM  

mr0x: So, people are willing to believe that they had to take the ring to Mt. Doom and couldn't take it anywhere else to be destroyed. It had to be that one, right in the middle of enemy territory.


At some point don't they say that the One Ring could only be destroyed by the fires of Mount Doom (where it was forged, correct?), or by dragon fire? And since there were no more dragons around....whelp.
 
ecl
2014-08-05 09:22:33 PM  

Uzzah: ecl: The eagle puts on the One Ring and Gandalf puts on his wizards hat...

.. and his robe. Then he casts "Cock of the Infinite"...


Eagle: Don't f**k with me biznitch, I'm the mightiest sorcerer of the lands. 
The eagle steals Gandalfs soul and casts Lighting level 1,000,000.  His asshole explodes because he is only a level 2 druid.
 
2014-08-05 09:25:32 PM  
... or maybe Sauron thought something might be in the air (no pun intended) and was already making plans.  Remember as Sam and Frodo were going from the Emyn Muil, they encountered a thunderstorm.  Tolkein wrote that after it passed over the EM, it brooded over the mountains before eventually becoming the same storm that the Aragorn, Legolas, Gimlli and the Rohirrim encountered at Helm's Deep.  The "brooding over the mountains" was partly to explain how the storm endured for the days between EM and HD, but it could also have been Sauron keeping it going as an option in case he needed to take on the Eagles.  Maybe they could take on the Nazgul, but they would also be fighting wind, rain and lightning at the same time.

If Saruman was the power behind the storm at Redhorn Pass, and knew that they had failed in crossing via his spies, Sauron could get the information from him via the Palantir.  Sauron would know Gandalf and company were in the area but did know their exact whereabouts, since they were out of his view while they were in Lorien.  Gandalf's contest with Sauron while Frodo was wearing the ring on Amon Hen would have tipped Sauron off where they were.  Amon Hen and the EM were not too far from Sauron's former fortress of Dol Guldur in Mirkwood, where still he still had a presence and maybe an energy/force. He could have used DG as a means to channel his energy to create the storm not too far from where he knew the company to be.

</nerd>
 
2014-08-05 09:26:41 PM  

docmattic: mr0x: HawgWild: Or ... it's just a gigantic plot hole.

So, people are willing to believe that they had to take the ring to Mt. Doom and couldn't take it anywhere else to be destroyed. It had to be that one, right in the middle of enemy territory.

But, eagles are the plot hole? I think it's just because HISHE made the point.

There are a million ways to explain it.

1. Eagles couldn't fly over there because the orcs had anti-eagle missiles and Nazgul and only after the ring was destroyed could the eagles come pick them up.

2. Sauron could see Eagles flying and so they had to walk in order for the eye not to see them.

3. Eagles were sensitive to the effects of the ring. They could not carry it for long distances or they would turn evil and want to wear the ring.

etc etc


These plot holes don't matter. They can always be explained away by a complex enough device.

Point of information, m'lord. How could a giant eagle wear a ring?


i.imgur.com
 
2014-08-05 09:27:25 PM  
Why didn't Sauron just build a door over the cave entrance?
 
2014-08-05 09:29:26 PM  

ckccfa: It's because the eagles are dicks.  That's all.


Technically true. Frodo would have to proved himself pure, like Gandalf already was, for the Eagles to help him. The proof was the same delivery point.

/i have no citations
 
2014-08-05 09:29:53 PM  

MurphyMurphy: Not the eagles man, anything but the eagles.


Fark you, man, if you don't like it you can get out of the thread!
 
2014-08-05 09:34:43 PM  

scottydoesntknow: [img0.joyreactor.com image 760x610]

/It's f*cking walk o' clock!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=AxAEo3CWeq 8# t=136

/Just saw Clerks II for the first time yesterday
//NSFW
 
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