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(ESPN)   ...and there goes the postseason chances for the Pittsburgh Pirates   ( espn.go.com) divider line
    More: Sad, Andrew McCutchen, Diamondbacks, disabled list, first base, Major League Baseball Most Valuable Player Award, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette  
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1830 clicks; posted to Sports » on 05 Aug 2014 at 12:19 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-05 11:06:05 AM  
Hate to see this, but at least we can see how good the Buccos really are as a team now.
 
2014-08-05 12:27:58 PM  
does this injury happen if the D-Bags aren't a bunch of pussy thugs?
 
2014-08-05 12:31:05 PM  
For once I can say "fire gibby" and be completely serious.

That is a turd of an organization
 
2014-08-05 12:37:16 PM  

Uncle Pooky: does this injury happen if the D-Bags aren't a bunch of pussy thugs?


As much as I hate Arizona, this sounds like bad luck that could happen at any time.
 
2014-08-05 12:41:12 PM  
He HAD to plunder the lox.
 
2014-08-05 12:53:03 PM  
As a Brewers fan I never want to see anyone get injured, but if a team that is trying to knock us off has one, I will not be sad. Now if our team could actually capitalize on their bad luck, that would be something.

Go Brewers.
 
2014-08-05 12:54:57 PM  
For the sake of how much I dislike the Cardinals, I hope the Pirates keep winning just enough to land the wild card spot.

Go Brewers.
 
2014-08-05 12:57:12 PM  

thecpt: For once I can say "fire gibby" and be completely serious.

That is a turd of an organization


You just don't understand the unwritten rules man
 
2014-08-05 01:08:08 PM  
Didn't the Pirates make the playoffs last yaer?  Pretty sure the laws of nature say they are not allowed to make it this year then.
 
2014-08-05 01:15:27 PM  

assburp: thecpt: For once I can say "fire gibby" and be completely serious.

That is a turd of an organization

You just don't understand the unwritten rules man


Yeah, that "unwritten rule" bullshiat is part of the reason baseball is dying.  Baseball fans try to inject some ridiculous level of mysticism into their sport that just isn't there.

An asshole says: Hey! if you hit one of our guys, we have to hit one of yours in return.
A sensible person says: What are you, five?
 
2014-08-05 01:19:25 PM  
Back-to-back MVPs might be out of the question now.... too bad.

Wonder if this means that Kershaw actually has a chance?
 
2014-08-05 01:23:01 PM  

CalvinMorallis: .  Baseball fans try to inject some ridiculous level of mysticism into their sport that just isn't there.


Pretty sure it's not the fans causing the D-Bags to act like giant dickholes.
 
2014-08-05 01:25:48 PM  

CalvinMorallis: A sensible person says: What are you, five?


So if I take a heavy object and intentionally throw it at your body, and you have no legal recourse, what is the sensible thing to do?

Don't get me wrong - I'm not a big fan of the retaliatory HBP - I think better payback is for the next guy to hit a 2-run homer - but I understand that teams need to show the opponent that they won't take a pounding without giving one back.
 
2014-08-05 01:30:58 PM  

idesofmarch: CalvinMorallis: A sensible person says: What are you, five?

So if I take a heavy object and intentionally throw it at your body, and you have no legal recourse, what is the sensible thing to do?.


If it was intentional, have the pitcher arrested for felony assault
 
2014-08-05 01:33:33 PM  

Lost Thought 00: If it was intentional, have the pitcher arrested for felony assault


I said there's no legal recourse. If players don't get arrested for assault for charging the mound, then an arrest for a HBP is never going to happen.
 
2014-08-05 01:35:50 PM  

idesofmarch: Lost Thought 00: If it was intentional, have the pitcher arrested for felony assault

I said there's no legal recourse. If players don't get arrested for assault for charging the mound, then an arrest for a HBP is never going to happen.


The problem with this scenario is the hit on goldshmidt was universally understood as unintentional.

/it's not alliteration
//it's assonance
 
2014-08-05 01:40:58 PM  

Uncle Pooky: does this injury happen if the D-Bags aren't a bunch of pussy thugs?


No, it doesn't. That whole organization needs to be blown up. I'm embarrassed to have given any support to them under the current regime.
 
2014-08-05 01:51:44 PM  
If Cutch was a jerk or a low-life, I don't think Pittsburgh fans would be so upset -- but in addition to being a helluva baseball player, this is a genuinely NICE man who goes above and beyond for the city and his fans. Spend a few moments on his facebook page - he's Charlie Batch nice.

The D-Backs are low class and it was a cheap shot to someone who just wanted to hit the the ball and play the game.

:(
 
2014-08-05 01:53:04 PM  

thecpt: The problem with this scenario is the hit on goldshmidt was universally understood as unintentional.


Yeah, I know - which is what makes Arizona such D-bags. I was trying to pick apart Calvin's claim that the "You hit mine, I hit yours" mentality is immature. Then we got sidetracked.
 
2014-08-05 02:25:25 PM  

idesofmarch: thecpt: The problem with this scenario is the hit on goldshmidt was universally understood as unintentional.

Yeah, I know - which is what makes Arizona such D-bags. I was trying to pick apart Calvin's claim that the "You hit mine, I hit yours" mentality is immature. Then we got sidetracked.


Gotchya. It just sucks as a fan to watch the league allow players to "police themselves" when it's so obvious that it's detrimental to the game. Cut the shiat and start fining players when it's obvious. Follow up with suspensions so clubs who obviously encourage their players to do this actually feel the punishment too.

Pft. Like any of that will happen
 
2014-08-05 02:35:51 PM  

Uncle Pooky: does this injury happen if the D-Bags aren't a bunch of pussy thugs?


Yes, unless the D-bags delayed the game for an hour or something and Mccutcheon didnt stretch and stay loose.

/Just read a lot about oblique injuries
//Because Drew Brees
 
2014-08-05 02:36:42 PM  

thecpt: Cut the shiat and start fining players when it's obvious. Follow up with suspensions so clubs who obviously encourage their players to do this actually feel the punishment too.


That sounds reasonable - which means, like you said, there's no chance of that happening.

Frankly, if it were up to me, I'd add in that if a pitcher intentionally hits a batter, and the batter gets injured and goes on the DL, the pitcher should be suspended for the same length of time. That would cut back on intentional HBPs real farking fast.
 
2014-08-05 02:41:42 PM  
What, did the season start already?
 
2014-08-05 02:45:00 PM  

CalvinMorallis: assburp: thecpt: For once I can say "fire gibby" and be completely serious.

That is a turd of an organization

You just don't understand the unwritten rules man

Yeah, that "unwritten rule" bullshiat is part of the reason baseball is dying.  Baseball fans try to inject some ridiculous level of mysticism into their sport that just isn't there.

An asshole says: Hey! if you hit one of our guys, we have to hit one of yours in return.
A sensible person says: What are you, five?


Yes just like there is no retaliation in other sports, its just more obvious in baseball.

But you would have be under 5 to not pick up the fact retaliation is in all sports.
 
2014-08-05 02:45:07 PM  

idesofmarch: thecpt: Cut the shiat and start fining players when it's obvious. Follow up with suspensions so clubs who obviously encourage their players to do this actually feel the punishment too.

That sounds reasonable - which means, like you said, there's no chance of that happening.

Frankly, if it were up to me, I'd add in that if a pitcher intentionally hits a batter, and the batter gets injured and goes on the DL, the pitcher should be suspended for the same length of time. That would cut back on intentional HBPs real farking fast.


It's a good idea. My only beef with it is that these HBPs are an institutional problem. If that institution (aka asshat gibbons) controls a players playing time and demands they hit a batter, but the pitcher is the one suspended for the theoretical 15 days- lifetime ban... I don't know. Just a scary thought for a 24 year old reliever. It's horrible that premeditated aggravated assault is farking revered in our pastime.
 
2014-08-05 02:54:10 PM  

thecpt: idesofmarch: Lost Thought 00: If it was intentional, have the pitcher arrested for felony assault

I said there's no legal recourse. If players don't get arrested for assault for charging the mound, then an arrest for a HBP is never going to happen.

The problem with this scenario is the hit on goldshmidt was universally understood as unintentional.

/it's not alliteration
//it's assonance


It's so great that the D-backs felt they needed to retaliate for bad luck.

I think that the next time it rains and I do something stupid and slip on the sidewalk, I'm going to empty a shotgun in my neighbor.

Good luck Pirates.
 
2014-08-05 02:59:19 PM  

CalvinMorallis: Yeah, that "unwritten rule" bullshiat is part of the reason baseball is dying.


Please educate me, in what actual sense is baseball "dying"?
 
2014-08-05 03:01:39 PM  

thecpt: It's a good idea. My only beef with it is that these HBPs are an institutional problem. If that institution (aka asshat gibbons) controls a players playing time and demands they hit a batter, but the pitcher is the one suspended for the theoretical 15 days- lifetime ban... I don't know. Just a scary thought for a 24 year old reliever. It's horrible that premeditated aggravated assault is farking revered in our pastime.


Ahh, well if they added in suspensions for pitchers after an intent HBP, the players union could demand that pitchers could not be ordered to throw an intent HBP. Additionally, the manager would face stiff penalties if he retaliated against the pitcher for ignoring a command to throw one. Of course, any and all of that could be hard to prove, so that may be worse than if they did nothing at all.
 
2014-08-05 03:06:05 PM  
I kind of like cricket for their rules regarding hitting a batter. If you hit a batter and the batter is blocking the wicket (equivalent to crowding the plate) then the batter is called out,
 
2014-08-05 04:05:30 PM  

idesofmarch: Frankly, if it were up to me, I'd add in that if a pitcher intentionally hits a batter, and the batter gets injured and goes on the DL, the pitcher should be suspended for the same length of time. That would cut back on intentional HBPs real farking fast.


I've said that of all sports: An infraction that causes an injury means the offender is out for the amount of time the injured is.  (Non-infractions don't count; unintentional HBPs, legal hits, legal checks, etc.) There can be a reasonable suspension maximum (say, if the doctors initially say the injured will be out a 6-8 weeks, the suspension is for 8 weeks or until doctors clear him, whichever comes first.)
 
2014-08-05 04:06:48 PM  

mikaloyd: I kind of like cricket for their rules regarding hitting a batter. If you hit a batter and the batter is blocking the wicket (equivalent to crowding the plate) then the batter is called out,


That's how it's supposed to work for baseball, too...if the batter is hit in the strike zone, it's supposed to be a strike, not an HBP.  I don't think that's ever been called, though.
 
2014-08-05 04:23:49 PM  
MLB: "whoa, who cares about the intentionally ordered injury to a star player in a playoff race, we've got STEROIDS people to go after again!"
 
2014-08-05 04:25:30 PM  

IlGreven: I've said that of all sports: An infraction that causes an injury means the offender is out for the amount of time the injured is.


This can never ever happen because it's trivially easy for injured players to game the system to make the other guy miss more time
 
2014-08-05 04:35:25 PM  

ElwoodCuse: IlGreven: I've said that of all sports: An infraction that causes an injury means the offender is out for the amount of time the injured is.

This can never ever happen because it's trivially easy for injured players to game the system to make the other guy miss more time


Exactly. Run out Hacky McSwingsalot if you're facing a division rivals best pitcher, tell him to crowd the plate as much as possible, and OH NO! that 75mph rocket to the forearm is going to keep him out for 3 months at least!

You can solve this problem by:

- Make a HBP worth two bases. Puts a runner in scoring position regardless of the situation, and increases the chance of a HBP scoring a run.

- Tell your umps to keep batters off the plate and where they should be in the box. You get one warning, and if he has to tell you again, you're out. `
 
2014-08-05 04:40:30 PM  

jayhawk88: ElwoodCuse: IlGreven: I've said that of all sports: An infraction that causes an injury means the offender is out for the amount of time the injured is.

This can never ever happen because it's trivially easy for injured players to game the system to make the other guy miss more time

Exactly. Run out Hacky McSwingsalot if you're facing a division rivals best pitcher, tell him to crowd the plate as much as possible, and OH NO! that 75mph rocket to the forearm is going to keep him out for 3 months at least!


Except that the guy cut out my parenthetical that stated NON-INFRACTIONS DO NOT COUNT! If the ump doesn't feel he was thrown at intentionally, then no suspension, no matter how bad the hit was.
 
2014-08-05 04:49:20 PM  

CalvinMorallis: assburp: thecpt: For once I can say "fire gibby" and be completely serious.

That is a turd of an organization

You just don't understand the unwritten rules man

Yeah, that "unwritten rule" bullshiat is part of the reason baseball is dying.  Baseball fans try to inject some ridiculous level of mysticism into their sport that just isn't there.

An asshole says: Hey! if you hit one of our guys, we have to hit one of yours in return.
A sensible person says: What are you, five?


He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue.
 
2014-08-05 05:11:34 PM  

1.  the Snakes should have retaliated first possible chance.  that we waited until what, the 9th inning, is in fact, bush league and a Gibby coached team should farking know better.


2.  the Snakes saying afterwards, "it got away from us, we're sorry Cutch got hit, that pitch got away" is bs.  once agin, a Gibby coached team should have the stones to say "yeah we went after him."

3. Cutch hurt his oblique *BEFORE* he got dotted. McCutchen suffered the injury during the eighth inning of Sunday's game against the Diamondbacks. After hitting a game-tying sacrifice fly, he grabbed his left side while running down the baseline, slowed to a walk once the ball was caught, and was immediately taken to the clubhouse, as you can see from the MLB.com video.

4.  Pirates fans *and* MLB fans crying about the snakes being petty or childish?  Eat a dick.  you took out two, count 'em, TWO D-backs in two seasons.  Where was your outrage then?  that's right.  shut the fark up.

April 2013, 2B Aaron Hill ends up missing about 7 weeks after PITTSBURGH PIRATE james mcdonald hit him on the hand

Last farking Friday night, you took out All-Star Paul Goldschmidt: Some, like catcher Miguel Montero, laid some culpability at the feet of the Pittsburgh Pirates. In conversations with reporters both Friday night and Saturday afternoon, Montero didn't rule out the possibility that there could have been intent behind the pitch that hit his team's star player. He at least felt Pirates reliever Ernesto Frieri had no business pitching inside with a five-run lead in the ninth.
 
2014-08-05 05:26:14 PM  

rickythepenguin: 1.  the Snakes should have retaliated first possible chance.  that we waited until what, the 9th inning, is in fact, bush league and a Gibby coached team should farking know better.


And it's not the first time they took their sweet time in retaliating. Remember, they hit Ryan Braun late in a game when they should've done it his first time up. To me, that's the bigger issue along with needing a 2nd chance to do it.
 
2014-08-05 05:30:34 PM  

desertgeek: Remember, they hit Ryan Braun late in a game when they should've done it his first time up. To me, that's the bigger issue along with needing a 2nd chance to do it.



that is what bothers me about the state of the Snakes union, if you will.  it should hav ehappened first available chance.  this team is lacking toughness.  and you may recall Towers specifically addressing this in spring training.  he had a quote along the lines of -- and again, when asked about specific instances where pitchers didn't protect batters -- "if you are the kind of pitcher that isn't going to retaliate and protect your teammates, chances are you won't be in a D-Backs uniform on opening day."

and yet it is farking August and we have to wait and wait and wait to protect who?  oh, nobody.  just the face of the franchise for the next 5 years.

Gibbyball era is done.
 
2014-08-05 05:42:50 PM  
 
2014-08-05 05:48:17 PM  

rickythepenguin: Montero didn't rule out the possibility that there could have been intent behind the pitch that hit his team's star player. He at least felt Pirates reliever Ernesto Frieri had no business pitching inside with a five-run lead in the ninth.



hmmm....you know what........i think i see the method to the madness.  if in fact the Snakes believe that Frieri was being a fugazi tough guy and waiting until the 9th to dot *our* star, I can understand -- not saying it is right, certainly not saying it is what the Snakes did -- i can just *understand* the whole, "oh, OK, Pittsburgh, you wanna get into some 9th inning bullshiat?  OK.  Let's get into some 9th inning bullshiat.  Since the 9th is so farking important, OK, let's have some 9th inning fun.  You dotted our guy in the 9th, well farking get some of your own."
 
2014-08-05 05:49:52 PM  
idesofmarch:
Frankly, if it were up to me, I'd add in that if a pitcher intentionally hits a batter, and the batter gets injured and goes on the DL, the pitcher should be suspended for the same length of time. That would cut back on intentional HBPs real farking fast.

Making a HBP equal an automatic home run (including any possible RBIs on base) would end the practice.

Also, it should be a no-brainer that the pitcher is immediately ejected, accident or not.
 
2014-08-05 05:51:37 PM  
You know, as screwed up as this is, at least it's a change from past "...and there goes the postseason chances for the Pittsburgh Pirates " stories, which usually involved them losing 10+ games in a row.
 
2014-08-05 05:54:55 PM  
 
2014-08-05 05:55:16 PM  
rickythepenguin:

hmmm....you know what........i think i see the method to the madness.  if in fact the Snakes believe that Frieri was being a fugazi tough guy and waiting until the 9th to dot *our* star, I can understand -- not saying it is right, certainly not saying it is what the Snakes did -- i can just *understand* the whole, "oh, OK, Pittsburgh, you wanna get into some 9th inning bullshiat?  OK.  Let's get into some 9th inning bullshiat.  Since the 9th is so farking important, OK, let's have some 9th inning fun.  You dotted our guy in the 9th, well farking get some of your own."

using the term "dot" to refer to a HBP makes you sound like a gigantic tool.
 
2014-08-05 05:56:27 PM  

Great_Milenko: Also, it should be a no-brainer that the pitcher is immediately ejected, accident or not.


Sorry but I don't this idea at all. Intent is always important in determining penalties. To throw out a pitcher because of one obvious mistake is absolutely ridiculous. It's bad for the player, bad for the team, and bad for the fans.

jayhawk88: Make a HBP worth two bases. Puts a runner in scoring position regardless of the situation, and increases the chance of a HBP scoring a run.


Now this idea, this has potential.
 
2014-08-05 05:57:33 PM  

thecpt: idesofmarch: thecpt: The problem with this scenario is the hit on goldshmidt was universally understood as unintentional.

Yeah, I know - which is what makes Arizona such D-bags. I was trying to pick apart Calvin's claim that the "You hit mine, I hit yours" mentality is immature. Then we got sidetracked.

Gotchya. It just sucks as a fan to watch the league allow players to "police themselves" when it's so obvious that it's detrimental to the game. Cut the shiat and start fining players when it's obvious. Follow up with suspensions so clubs who obviously encourage their players to do this actually feel the punishment too.

Pft. Like any of that will happen


Manny Machado just got a 5 game suspension for taking things too far. How is MLB not doing anything again?
 
2014-08-05 06:03:20 PM  

idesofmarch: To throw out a pitcher because of one obvious mistake is absolutely ridiculous. It's bad for the player, bad for the team, and bad for the fans.



yeah.  pitchers get hit sometimes unintentionally.  there was a "unwritten rules" incident a few years back when, as i recall fairly late in the game and trailing, like 5-1 in the 7th or whatever, the pitcher dotted a guy to load the bases.  the batter started chirping at the pitcher and the benches cleared.

the pitcher in the postgame presser was like, "why the hell am I going to intentionally hit a guy to laod the bases when we're already trailing by 4?"  and you can't argue with that.  so take a bright line rule, "hit a guy, get tossed", is just not what the game is about.
 
2014-08-05 07:44:51 PM  

farkinglizardking: thecpt: idesofmarch: thecpt: The problem with this scenario is the hit on goldshmidt was universally understood as unintentional.

Yeah, I know - which is what makes Arizona such D-bags. I was trying to pick apart Calvin's claim that the "You hit mine, I hit yours" mentality is immature. Then we got sidetracked.

Gotchya. It just sucks as a fan to watch the league allow players to "police themselves" when it's so obvious that it's detrimental to the game. Cut the shiat and start fining players when it's obvious. Follow up with suspensions so clubs who obviously encourage their players to do this actually feel the punishment too.

Pft. Like any of that will happen

Manny Machado just got a 5 game suspension for taking things too far. How is MLB not doing anything again?


Yes they do one thing every now and then. In this case it took someone throwing a farking bat at someone for not even a farking full week off.

/you told me
 
2014-08-05 09:02:37 PM  
i1182.photobucket.com
 
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