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(ESPN)   Goofus, on the other hand, lets Albert Pujols tag up and get to second on a fly ball despite Pujols having the same speed on the bases as a filing cabinet   (espn.go.com) divider line 30
    More: Fail, Yasiel Puig, Albert Pujols, Erick Aybar, Dodgers, A.J. Ellis, Dodger Stadium, second bases  
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1111 clicks; posted to Sports » on 06 Aug 2014 at 1:11 AM (7 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



30 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-08-05 11:47:14 PM
Look, I really want the MLB to evolve beyond being the game of old farts everywhere at some point in the next 20 years or it's probably going to die a horrible death. But this and all the other plays like it is why we can't seriously have a conversation about Puig being the "new face of baseball". Dude's talented, but he's also constantly farking up.  He makes Manny Ramirez look like a pro's pro.
 
2014-08-06 01:55:53 AM

Dust: He makes Manny Ramirez look like a pro's pro.


Thats about as accurate as you can get,,,,
 
2014-08-06 01:57:50 AM

Dust: Look, I really want the MLB to evolve beyond being the game of old farts everywhere at some point in the next 20 years or it's probably going to die a horrible death. But this and all the other plays like it is why we can't seriously have a conversation about Puig being the "new face of baseball". Dude's talented, but he's also constantly farking up.  He makes Manny Ramirez look like a pro's pro.


I think, in large ways, baseball becomes more boring for the average viewer as we learn how to more effectively play baseball. Advances in scouting, tracking batted balls and computational power has led to better defense and pitchers having a great advantage over hitters. The value increase we've seen for walks means longer counts and more drawn out pitch sequences that aren't terribly fun to watch for the layman. We can scout individual hitters and throw just to their weaknesses and tendencies, and learn how to get them out.

I think of it like this. One of my favorite players when I was younger was Jim Thome. He was exciting, and could smack the crap out of the ball, almost always to right field. I don't think he'd be nearly as successful hitting these days. It would be a lot of off speed pitches down in the zone, a lot of hitting into the shift and nowhere near as many homers. People largely attribute the decline in power to the crackdown on PEDs. But the truth is anyone that's trying hard to cheat can likely still find drugs that evade the tests. And the truth is that PEDs definitely helped pitchers in the 90s as well, because one of the big uses for PEDs is recovering faster and having greater endurance.. something that pitchers would probably benefit more from than hitters. The crackdown might have something to do with it, but the rise in analytics has a lot to do with it as well.

Baseball is still incredibly profitable. But the game is undoubtedly becoming more boring, and the income disparity between teams is still somewhat alarming. Ultimately, until that profitability is threatened, nothing will change. Hockey introduced more scoring-friendly rules a few years ago after a number of lockouts had damaged the sport's prestige in the states, and made the profitability of some teams questionable. Baseball has to get to that level of dire straights before we see any notable adjustments in favor of higher scoring/faster games.
 
2014-08-06 02:09:13 AM
I dunno.. If you gave me odds I'd lay 10 on Pujols. Filing cabinets are known to be indecisive runners.

I mean sure, they have a better overall speed POTENTIAL. Albert's just got that cagey vet instinct I'd take in the clutch any day.
 
2014-08-06 02:25:58 AM

inclemency: I dunno.. If you gave me odds I'd lay 10 on Pujols. Filing cabinets are known to be indecisive runners.

I mean sure, they have a better overall speed POTENTIAL. Albert's just got that cagey vet instinct I'd take in the clutch any day.


He couldn't find the clutch in a European car parts store
 
2014-08-06 05:32:28 AM
And now I'm picturing the tool cabinet shaking and shiat as it falls down the stairs in home alone 2.

Mistakes like this are nothing new in bas...holy shiat you guys pile on fast
 
2014-08-06 06:30:56 AM

lacydog: Baseball has to get to that level of dire straights before we see any notable adjustments in favor of higher scoring/faster games.


Higher scoring means  slower games.
 
2014-08-06 08:35:34 AM
I like baseball just as it is.

/except the DH should go
//same guys batting that's on the field
///go bucs
 
2014-08-06 09:12:49 AM

upndn: I like baseball just as it is.

/except the DH should go
//same guys batting that's on the field
///go bucs


Yup.

Although as far as the DH goes, I think MLB should pick to either have it for both leagues or not at all.

/go O's
 
2014-08-06 09:13:50 AM
oh come on folks, that's just Puig being Puig... stop being so unreasonable...
 
2014-08-06 09:20:41 AM

Gulper Eel: Higher scoring means slower games.


An interesting concept that computer UI designers have discovered is that people don't actually care *how long* something takes, as long as *something is happening*.  (For example, if a file copy operation takes normally 7-10 seconds to complete, the user will actually complain more if the system doesn't show a moving progress bar or something... because it *FEELS* like it's taking a longer time than it actually is.)

To translate to baseball, it's not that higher scoring games take longer, because more scoring = more action. It's that more scoring will, invariably, lead to tons of pitching changes and warmups and TV timeouts and the catcher visiting the mound every other pitch and the batter calling time out and lots of throws over to first base. It's those other parts which make the game slower, and cause the crowd to get restless, because THERE'S NOTHING EXCITING HAPPENING during those periods.

So, it's not that there's enough scoring, there's not enough action otherwise. (This is also the same reason that many people believe watching a football game in person is, by itself [ignoring the atmosphere of the crowd and stuff], really boring - because the downtime between plays is really long.)
 
2014-08-06 09:26:53 AM

Lawlborough: Although as far as the DH goes, I think MLB should pick to either have it for both leagues or not at all.


Pretty sure that's coming in the next CBA, which expires after the 2016 season. This gives the everyday interleague schedule several years to happen, so the next step is most likely the institution of the DH across-the-board. (The chances of the MLBPA wanting to get rid of something which lets some players extend their careers is effectively zero.)
 
2014-08-06 09:27:46 AM
I like the idea of switching to a 7-inning game.

More tension
Less bullpen
 
2014-08-06 09:38:19 AM

Dust: He makes Manny Ramirez look like a pro's pro.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCdp-pSA8kc
 
2014-08-06 09:48:13 AM

MugzyBrown: More tension
Less bullpen


Ugh, I just realized that September call-up time is right around the corner. Joyous. A bullpen of 15 relief pitchers, meaning that managers will do pitching changes about every other batter.
 
2014-08-06 10:10:11 AM

Joe_diGriz: Gulper Eel: Higher scoring means slower games.

An interesting concept that computer UI designers have discovered is that people don't actually care *how long* something takes, as long as *something is happening*.  (For example, if a file copy operation takes normally 7-10 seconds to complete, the user will actually complain more if the system doesn't show a moving progress bar or something... because it *FEELS* like it's taking a longer time than it actually is.)

To translate to baseball, it's not that higher scoring games take longer, because more scoring = more action. It's that more scoring will, invariably, lead to tons of pitching changes and warmups and TV timeouts and the catcher visiting the mound every other pitch and the batter calling time out and lots of throws over to first base. It's those other parts which make the game slower, and cause the crowd to get restless, because THERE'S NOTHING EXCITING HAPPENING during those periods.

So, it's not that there's enough scoring, there's not enough action otherwise. (This is also the same reason that many people believe watching a football game in person is, by itself [ignoring the atmosphere of the crowd and stuff], really boring - because the downtime between plays is really long.)


Good observations. One easy fix is to enforce a time limit on both batters and pitchers. You don't need to adjust your glove after every swing, or if you do, that's just a deficiency you'll have to deal with. Batter has X seconds to get into the box; pitcher has Y seconds from that point to throw (a throw to a base can also qualify); no timeouts after a "set" point; any violation is a strike (if the hitter delays) or a ball (if the pitcher delays). I'm not sure how to enforce this -- I don't think I'd want to make home plate umps start counting "one Mississippi, two Mississippi" after every pitch -- but they could come up with something.

One unintended consequence of this will be more stolen bases, because pitchers will be forced into a rhythm. I don't think the effect will be huge, though. And hey, stolen bases are exciting for fans.
 
2014-08-06 10:14:29 AM
I lol'd at the headline.
 
2014-08-06 11:18:28 AM

Super Chronic: Joe_diGriz: Gulper Eel: Good observations. One easy fix is to enforce a time limit on both batters and pitchers. You don't need to adjust your glove after every swing, or if you do, that's just a deficiency you'll have to deal with. Batter has X seconds to get into the box; pitcher has Y seconds from that point to throw (a throw to a base can also qualify); no timeouts after a "set" point; any violation is a strike (if the hitter delays) or a ball (if the pitcher delays). I'm not sure how to enforce this -- I don't think I'd want to make home plate umps start counting "one Mississippi, two Mississippi" after every pitch -- but they could come up with something.


They could easily set some kind of timer in the box.  Like the shot clock or play clock.  It counts down so the ump don't have to.
 
2014-08-06 12:24:03 PM

Dust: He makes Manny Ramirez look like a pro's pro.


I can't keep up with fark. In the past week, he's been praised for scoring from 2B on a fielder's choice, hitting a home run and getting a bubble shower, and hitting three triples in one game. Now he makes a mistake and he's responsible for baseball becoming extinct.
 
2014-08-06 12:53:07 PM
Good thing we had Uribe last night. Yeah, that's right, Juan farking Uribe saved our asses.
 
2014-08-06 01:00:40 PM
Trocadero: Good thing we had Uribe last night. Yeah, that's right, Juan farking Uribe saved our asses.

With an assist to Chris Iannetta and David Freese (actually two for him)

/not that I'm bemoaning the win
 
2014-08-06 01:01:10 PM

skrame: Dust: He makes Manny Ramirez look like a pro's pro.

I can't keep up with fark. In the past week, he's been praised for scoring from 2B on a fielder's choice, hitting a home run and getting a bubble shower, and hitting three triples in one game. Now he makes a mistake and he's responsible for baseball becoming extinct.


First off, your confusion probably lies with the fact that there are multiple people sharing and discussing differing opinions here.  You're likely to encounter this same confusion pretty much everywhere else on the internet.  Good luck!

Secondly, nobody said he's responsible for baseball becoming extinct.  Reading comprehension fail.  I said that (in my opinion) baseball is about 20 years away from dying a horrible death unless they get their shiat together, and (in my opinion) Puig shouldn't be the new face of baseball until he gets his shiat together.
 
2014-08-06 01:41:48 PM

Dust: Puig shouldn't be the new face of baseball until he gets his shiat together.


He already is the new face of baseball based upon the amount of coverage he gets, so get used to it.  And I'm not sure what shiat exactly he needs to get together, other than not speeding so much.  That Pujols would tag up from first in a 5 run game in the 8th inning was as unexpected as Steve Bono's 76 yard bootleg TD.  That play also ended up being meaningless.  It just got attention because all things Puig get attention.  His teammates seem to love him, he hustles on plays that most guys who "play the right way" wouldn't hustle on, and he is fun as hell to watch.  Yeah, he flips a bat or two and he takes risks on the base paths, but so what, baseball could use more of that.  Now, if Puig were getting benched for not hustling or second guessing his manager and calling out a teammate like a certain white young player?  Ok, then maybe you could make your dumb Manny comparison about not being a pro's pro, whatever the hell that means.
 
2014-08-06 02:21:19 PM

dark brew: Dust: Puig shouldn't be the new face of baseball until he gets his shiat together.

He already is the new face of baseball based upon the amount of coverage he gets, so get used to it.  And I'm not sure what shiat exactly he needs to get together, other than not speeding so much.  That Pujols would tag up from first in a 5 run game in the 8th inning was as unexpected as Steve Bono's 76 yard bootleg TD.  That play also ended up being meaningless.  It just got attention because all things Puig get attention.  His teammates seem to love him, he hustles on plays that most guys who "play the right way" wouldn't hustle on, and he is fun as hell to watch.  Yeah, he flips a bat or two and he takes risks on the base paths, but so what, baseball could use more of that.  Now, if Puig were getting benched for not hustling or second guessing his manager and calling out a teammate like a certain white young player?  Ok, then maybe you could make your dumb Manny comparison about not being a pro's pro, whatever the hell that means.


If I had suggested somewhere with my posts that Bryce Harper should be the new face of baseball, then I apologize.  Oh wait, I didn't.

I have no real problem with Puig.  He's ultra-talented.  Andrew McCutchen and Mike Trout are also ultra-talented, though.  Puig is also hilarious and fun for the casual sports fan in the same way Manny was, which is why he gets the coverage.  On the plus side, he hasn't punched out a traveling secretary yet.  He was, however, benched a number of times since he's been in the majors for a variety of stupid petty things, including not hustling on multiple occasions and showing up late.  So he's not really a shiatload ahead of Bryce Harper on points if you're scoring at home.

I'm not sure what your argument is for certain, other than "Bryce Harper is a bit of a dick" and "Puig gets a lot of media coverage", but if your argument is that "media attention" = "he's replacing Jeter as the face of baseball" then I'm not sure we can ever agree on that issue, which is okay.  Dennis Rodman was never the face of basketball, but he sure did get a buttload of media coverage when he played.  I tend to think of the "face of the sport" thing as the person who's actively serving as a public ambassador of the game to the fans.  It's not an official role whatsoever, though, so obviously it garners debate like it has in this thread.
 
2014-08-06 02:30:30 PM

skrame: Dust: He makes Manny Ramirez look like a pro's pro.

I can't keep up with fark. In the past week, he's been praised for scoring from 2B on a fielder's choice, hitting a home run and getting a bubble shower, and hitting three triples in one game. Now he makes a mistake and he's responsible for baseball becoming extinct.


Every player makes physical mistakes.  Hot-dogging a routine fly ball and allowing an extra base is a mental mistake that shouldn't happen, ever.
 
2014-08-06 02:50:21 PM

Yanks_RSJ: skrame: Dust: He makes Manny Ramirez look like a pro's pro.

I can't keep up with fark. In the past week, he's been praised for scoring from 2B on a fielder's choice, hitting a home run and getting a bubble shower, and hitting three triples in one game. Now he makes a mistake and he's responsible for baseball becoming extinct.

Every player makes physical mistakes.  Hot-dogging a routine fly ball and allowing an extra base is a mental mistake that shouldn't happen, ever.


AJ Ellis had a fair commentary on that....(paraphrased) "Everybody makes those mistakes.  I made those mistakes.  The difference is, I made them in A and AA ball.  Yasiel never really had that chance."

Guy went from A ball to the majors in 6 months?  Yeah, he "shouldn't" be making those mistakes, but he's also not exactly a seasoned veteran yet either.  If, in his fifth or sixth year, he's still doing stupid shiat, then yeah, he deserves whatever hell he gets.  For now, he's barely into his first full year as a major leaguer, I'm still willing to cut him a little slack.

/and for every bonehead play he makes like TFA talks about, he comes up with something equally awesomely entertaining, just for its brashness or display of raw power/speed/ability.
 
2014-08-06 03:22:10 PM

chevydeuce: AJ Ellis had a fair commentary on that....(paraphrased) "Everybody makes those mistakes.  I made those mistakes.  The difference is, I made them in A and AA ball.  Yasiel never really had that chance."


It's nice of AJ Ellis to defend his teammate, but I'm certain that at some point in his life, Yasiel Puig has been told that when you catch the ball with a runner on base, you throw it into the infield as quickly as possible to avoid giving a free base.

Frankly, that's Little League shiat, and there's no excuse for it.
 
2014-08-06 03:30:46 PM

Yanks_RSJ: chevydeuce: AJ Ellis had a fair commentary on that....(paraphrased) "Everybody makes those mistakes.  I made those mistakes.  The difference is, I made them in A and AA ball.  Yasiel never really had that chance."

It's nice of AJ Ellis to defend his teammate, but I'm certain that at some point in his life, Yasiel Puig has been told that when you catch the ball with a runner on base, you throw it into the infield as quickly as possible to avoid giving a free base.

Frankly, that's Little League shiat, and there's no excuse for it.


And I don't disagree with you at all on that.  But there are LOTS of things that MLB'ers do as a matter of course that they were taught to never do in Little League....see the guys jogging out pop ups, the guys not running on foul balls, etc...again, if Puig is doing this stupid shiat two years from now, I'm more than willing to write him off.  For now (and because he does play for "my" team), I'm willing to forgive some of it, or at least offset it with some of the crazy good things he does (the going from second to home on an infield hit, the three triples in one game, etc)
 
2014-08-06 06:01:41 PM

Dust: skrame: Dust: He makes Manny Ramirez look like a pro's pro.

I can't keep up with fark. In the past week, he's been praised for scoring from 2B on a fielder's choice, hitting a home run and getting a bubble shower, and hitting three triples in one game. Now he makes a mistake and he's responsible for baseball becoming extinct.

First off, your confusion probably lies with the fact that there are multiple people sharing and discussing differing opinions here.  You're likely to encounter this same confusion pretty much everywhere else on the internet.  Good luck!

Secondly, nobody said he's responsible for baseball becoming extinct.  Reading comprehension fail.  I said that (in my opinion) baseball is about 20 years away from dying a horrible death unless they get their shiat together, and (in my opinion) Puig shouldn't be the new face of baseball until he gets his shiat together.


First off, I'm glad to know where I can definitely find condescending douchebags.

Second, you either implied that Puig's antics were connected to baseball dying a slow death, or you put two sentences next to each other that aren't even related. Since you used the word "but", the sentences are grammatically connected. So what the fark does Puig becoming the new face of baseball have to do with the sport being 20 years from dying a horrible death?
 
2014-08-06 06:30:34 PM

skrame: Dust: skrame: Dust: He makes Manny Ramirez look like a pro's pro.

I can't keep up with fark. In the past week, he's been praised for scoring from 2B on a fielder's choice, hitting a home run and getting a bubble shower, and hitting three triples in one game. Now he makes a mistake and he's responsible for baseball becoming extinct.

First off, your confusion probably lies with the fact that there are multiple people sharing and discussing differing opinions here.  You're likely to encounter this same confusion pretty much everywhere else on the internet.  Good luck!

Secondly, nobody said he's responsible for baseball becoming extinct.  Reading comprehension fail.  I said that (in my opinion) baseball is about 20 years away from dying a horrible death unless they get their shiat together, and (in my opinion) Puig shouldn't be the new face of baseball until he gets his shiat together.

First off, I'm glad to know where I can definitely find condescending douchebags.

Second, you either implied that Puig's antics were connected to baseball dying a slow death, or you put two sentences next to each other that aren't even related. Since you used the word "but", the sentences are grammatically connected. So what the fark does Puig becoming the new face of baseball have to do with the sport being 20 years from dying a horrible death?


I said I want the MLB to evolve so it doesn't die, BUT that I don't think Puig is the solution to the problem.  Not the cause of the problem, but also not the solution.  Get it?

Also, don't be surprised if people are dismissive and condescending to you if you completely strawman their posts in a pretty sarcastic tone.
 
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