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(ESPN)   Evidently somebody in Ohio thought it was a good idea to give $115M to Jay Cutler 2.0   (espn.go.com) divider line 119
    More: Fail, Jay Gruden, Mike Brown, quarterback, Andrew Whitworth, extension service, Hue Jackson, Redskins, QBR  
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2288 clicks; posted to Sports » on 05 Aug 2014 at 2:09 AM (11 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-04 10:47:22 PM  
Total QBR: 51.5

STOP TRYING TO MAKE 'FETCH' HAPPEN.
 
2014-08-04 11:23:08 PM  
Jay Cutler is a pro-Bowler who has at least won a playoff game.  Also those splits from last year, Cutler was pretty damn clutch in the 4th and on 3rd and 4th down.
 
2014-08-05 12:25:03 AM  
I've always considered Dalton a less talented Eli Manning.
 
2014-08-05 12:36:43 AM  
who?
 
2014-08-05 02:18:02 AM  

bdub77: who?


Yeah. Admittedly, I'm a casual NFL fan, but 'this'.
 
2014-08-05 02:27:33 AM  
These contracts wouldn't sound quite so ludicrous if they were actually reported as what they were instead of the way they are structured. The teams have absolutely zero intention of paying out the life of the contract. If they actually did it would destroy their salary caps.

So, what is it, really? It's 2 years at $25 million with $17 million guaranteed. Nice chunk of change, but not $115 million. And if he doesn't get them through at least the first round of the playoffs, that's probably where it will end, too. He's at best the third-best quarterback in the division, to say nothing of the league. One thing is for sure, though... when a guy like Andy Dalton gets a big reported contract like this every quarterback in the league cheers, because now any QB with any talent can use his deal as a cudgel for their own negotiations.
 
2014-08-05 02:33:18 AM  
Besides Andy Dalton, the only other quarterback who has thrown for 80 touchdowns while throwing less than 50 interceptions in his first three NFL seasons is... Dan Marino.

Not quite fair to call him Jay Cutler just yet, but making fun of his playoff ineptitude and gingerness will be here to stay for a while.
 
2014-08-05 02:44:29 AM  
Hes doing OK in Cinci. Hes a god enough qb whos has already finished his bonehead years learning. And he's 26. Still a lot of possible upside in terms of improvement. He will still be in his prime at the end of 6 years. I'm not saying the Bengals got a giant bargain or anything but the kid is not a galloping hot pile of emo fail like Cutler is. Cinci didnt get robbed here.
 
2014-08-05 02:51:06 AM  

mikaloyd: Hes doing OK in Cinci. Hes a god enough qb whos has already finished his bonehead years learning. And he's 26. Still a lot of possible upside in terms of improvement. He will still be in his prime at the end of 6 years. I'm not saying the Bengals got a giant bargain or anything but the kid is not a galloping hot pile of emo fail like Cutler is. Cinci didnt get robbed here.


Cutler has every right to behave like a spoiled emo kid. He has gotten the shaft from two different teams who have refused to put the weapons around him that he needs to win. There is no doubt in my mind that the difference between Cutler and Joe Montana is the system they played in.
 
2014-08-05 02:57:34 AM  

HawgWild: I've always considered Dalton a less talented Eli Manning.


I have always considered Eli Manning a two-time Super Bowl winner, and the Manning family Oreo cookie eating champ.
 
2014-08-05 03:42:05 AM  

worlddan: mikaloyd: Hes doing OK in Cinci. Hes a god enough qb whos has already finished his bonehead years learning. And he's 26. Still a lot of possible upside in terms of improvement. He will still be in his prime at the end of 6 years. I'm not saying the Bengals got a giant bargain or anything but the kid is not a galloping hot pile of emo fail like Cutler is. Cinci didnt get robbed here.

Cutler has every right to behave like a spoiled emo kid. He has gotten the shaft from two different teams who have refused to put the weapons around him that he needs to win. There is no doubt in my mind that the difference between Cutler and Joe Montana is the system they played in.


This should get bites.  nice.
 
2014-08-05 03:50:37 AM  
I don't care what any of you say, I have AJ Green in a keeper league and I'm hopefully ok with this or something....

hmm...Cordarrelle Patterson would be a fifth of the cost....

stupid auction keepers.
 
2014-08-05 04:12:15 AM  

inclemency: bdub77: who?

Yeah. Admittedly, I'm a casual NFL fan, but 'this'.


Romo Jr.
 
2014-08-05 04:32:17 AM  

TheOther: inclemency: bdub77: who?

Yeah. Admittedly, I'm a casual NFL fan, but 'this'.

Romo Jr.


They let that guy use his 'clutch' to breed?

What a world.
 
2014-08-05 04:39:11 AM  
Bungles being Bungles again.
 
2014-08-05 04:40:49 AM  

I Have The Touch of a Shocked Monkey: Besides Andy Dalton, the only other quarterback who has thrown for 80 touchdowns while throwing less than 50 interceptions in his first three NFL seasons is... Dan Marino.

Not quite fair to call him Jay Cutler just yet, but making fun of his playoff ineptitude and gingerness will be here to stay for a while.


All of this.

Honestly, what QB is Cincy going to get that would be better than him right away? This is Mike Brown and a city in Ohio we're talking about. Dalton's been pretty piss poor in the playoffs so far, but that's true of so many QB's early in their career. Sure you've got Brady and Roethelisberger, with Wilson joining the club as guys who won right away, but there's been just as many guys like Drew Brees, Eli Manning and hell even Brad Johnson as QBs in this era(and some of the one before that) who took a bit longer to win.

Arguably the best QB of all time, Peyton Manning went 0-3 on a combined 50-105(47.8%) 558 Yards 2Tds(One Rushing) - 2Int 58.5 Rating to start his career. He even lost to Jay Fielder and the Dolphins, with at least as much offensive talent as Dalton does.

There was some noise about whether he'd ever break through back then, but he was generally given the benefit of the doubt and it was a very different NFL culture. Looking at those numbers, can you imagine the narrative that would be pushed with today's NFL and Social Media that celebrates every Doopy Pants mistake, Chicago Jay 3rd Down Punt, and Romobyl meltdown like it's the 4th of July? Hell, Ryan Leaf probably would have killed himself by the end of his rookie year. Johnny Manziel is the next man up for the harvest.

While Dalton's not certainly not ever going to be Peyton Manning, his long term prospects of becoming a winner are far more solid than anything they could possibly find in FA or the draft.
 
2014-08-05 06:16:45 AM  

EvilMonkeyBoy: I Have The Touch of a Shocked Monkey: Besides Andy Dalton, the only other quarterback who has thrown for 80 touchdowns while throwing less than 50 interceptions in his first three NFL seasons is... Dan Marino.

Not quite fair to call him Jay Cutler just yet, but making fun of his playoff ineptitude and gingerness will be here to stay for a while.

All of this.

Honestly, what QB is Cincy going to get that would be better than him right away? This is Mike Brown and a city in Ohio we're talking about. Dalton's been pretty piss poor in the playoffs so far, but that's true of so many QB's early in their career. Sure you've got Brady and Roethelisberger, with Wilson joining the club as guys who won right away, but there's been just as many guys like Drew Brees, Eli Manning and hell even Brad Johnson as QBs in this era(and some of the one before that) who took a bit longer to win.

Arguably the best QB of all time, Peyton Manning went 0-3 on a combined 50-105(47.8%) 558 Yards 2Tds(One Rushing) - 2Int 58.5 Rating to start his career. He even lost to Jay Fielder and the Dolphins, with at least as much offensive talent as Dalton does.

There was some noise about whether he'd ever break through back then, but he was generally given the benefit of the doubt and it was a very different NFL culture. Looking at those numbers, can you imagine the narrative that would be pushed with today's NFL and Social Media that celebrates every Doopy Pants mistake, Chicago Jay 3rd Down Punt, and Romobyl meltdown like it's the 4th of July? Hell, Ryan Leaf probably would have killed himself by the end of his rookie year. Johnny Manziel is the next man up for the harvest.

While Dalton's not certainly not ever going to be Peyton Manning, his long term prospects of becoming a winner are far more solid than anything they could possibly find in FA or the draft.


Be fair.  Romo has won a playoff game.
 
2014-08-05 06:39:20 AM  

TheOther: Be fair.  Romo has won a playoff game.


Yeah, In his 6th year in the league at age 29. So has Jay Cutler, the person who the headline also inferred wasn't a good QB. It took him 5 years. So has Rex Grossman, So has Tim Tebow, So has TJ Yates, So has Tommy Maddox and so many other mediocre quarterbacks throughout NFL history. Winning a playoff game is about the most overrated accomplishment a QB can have, especially in a team sport consisting where you're relying on the 45 or so guys that were good enough to to get in the game that day.

Is this some sort of reverse troll that involves actually praising Romo? 'Cause it worked.

Either way, Dalton has a far better career outlook than tons of people who only won one game. 

Including Jay Cutler, including Tony Romo.
 
2014-08-05 07:00:11 AM  

mikaloyd: Hes doing OK in Cinci. Hes a god enough qb whos has already finished his bonehead years learning. And he's 26. Still a lot of possible upside in terms of improvement. He will still be in his prime at the end of 6 years. I'm not saying the Bengals got a giant bargain or anything but the kid is not a galloping hot pile of emo fail like Cutler is. Cinci didnt get robbed here.


The clock is ticking on Dalton though...he can't keep taking the team to the playoffs and lose. To be fair though, they pretty much all stunk against SD last year.
 
2014-08-05 07:18:38 AM  

sn0wblind: worlddan: mikaloyd: Hes doing OK in Cinci. Hes a god enough qb whos has already finished his bonehead years learning. And he's 26. Still a lot of possible upside in terms of improvement. He will still be in his prime at the end of 6 years. I'm not saying the Bengals got a giant bargain or anything but the kid is not a galloping hot pile of emo fail like Cutler is. Cinci didnt get robbed here.

Cutler has every right to behave like a spoiled emo kid. He has gotten the shaft from two different teams who have refused to put the weapons around him that he needs to win. There is no doubt in my mind that the difference between Cutler and Joe Montana is the system they played in.

This should get bites.  nice.


Not a troll if it's true
 
2014-08-05 07:19:46 AM  

Krustofsky: mikaloyd: Hes doing OK in Cinci. Hes a god enough qb whos has already finished his bonehead years learning. And he's 26. Still a lot of possible upside in terms of improvement. He will still be in his prime at the end of 6 years. I'm not saying the Bengals got a giant bargain or anything but the kid is not a galloping hot pile of emo fail like Cutler is. Cinci didnt get robbed here.

The clock is ticking on Dalton though...he can't keep taking the team to the playoffs and lose. To be fair though, they pretty much all stunk against SD last year.


i171.photobucket.com
 
2014-08-05 07:21:22 AM  

MmmmBacon: Bungles being Bungles the AFC North champsagain.



/ftfy
/What? Did the Fountain of Youth run off into Pittsburgh in the offseason? You think Johnny Football's gonna save the Browns?
/I don't know enough about the Ravens' chances. So, maybe them.
 
2014-08-05 07:21:36 AM  
The twam really had no other choice. They arent bad enough to draft an instant replacement. At least he isnt being paid at Flacco levels.
 
2014-08-05 07:28:03 AM  
 
2014-08-05 07:39:44 AM  

bdub77: who?


If you get all your sports news from SportsCenter, it's not surprising you've never heard of Dalton. Now if he played for New York, well, this would be the greatest signing since forever. And if he played for New England, then you'd think the skies had parted and the sun shone down on Chris Berman wiping his chin and getting up from his knees.
 
2014-08-05 07:40:29 AM  

I Have The Touch of a Shocked Monkey: Besides Andy Dalton, the only other quarterback who has thrown for 80 touchdowns while throwing less than 50 interceptions in his first three NFL seasons is... Dan Marino.

Not quite fair to call him Jay Cutler just yet, but making fun of his playoff ineptitude and gingerness will be here to stay for a while.


You can't look at Dalton's numbers before the injury, he hasn't been the same since.
 
2014-08-05 07:42:21 AM  

AdamK: my favorite andy dalton highlight


For the record, the Bengals won that game.

/I was there
 
2014-08-05 07:43:51 AM  
Cutler?  Really?

Maybe the four game a year good version of Jason Campbell.
 
2014-08-05 08:04:00 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: These contracts wouldn't sound quite so ludicrous if they were actually reported as what they were instead of the way they are structured. The teams have absolutely zero intention of paying out the life of the contract. If they actually did it would destroy their salary caps.

So, what is it, really? It's 2 years at $25 million with $17 million guaranteed. Nice chunk of change, but not $115 million. And if he doesn't get them through at least the first round of the playoffs, that's probably where it will end, too. He's at best the third-best quarterback in the division, to say nothing of the league. One thing is for sure, though... when a guy like Andy Dalton gets a big reported contract like this every quarterback in the league cheers, because now any QB with any talent can use his deal as a cudgel for their own negotiations.


Pretty close to the same argument made over the Flacco contract. With a guy that has a ton of playoff wins.

Nobody listened then either. That top line $$$ is all that matters.
 
2014-08-05 08:09:57 AM  

EyeballKid: MmmmBacon: Bungles being Bungles the AFC North champsagain.


/ftfy
/What? Did the Fountain of Youth run off into Pittsburgh in the offseason? You think Johnny Football's gonna save the Browns?
/I don't know enough about the Ravens' chances. So, maybe them.


Bungles play a first place schedule. Ravens play a third place schedule and have improved their o-line (which was one of the worst in football last year), improved depth at TE (healthy Pitta, Owen Daniels over Dallas Clark and Ed No Hands Dickson), and WR (adding Steve Smith, Jacoby Jones healthier, Marlon Brown no longer a rookie).

They should be significantly better on offense. Defense is about the same - likely a better pass rush and run defense, slightly weaker on the back end as they're minus Ihedigbo and Graham. Elam moved from FS to a more natural SS, but there's no heir apparent at FS or third CB. Plenty of D-line and LB depth though.
 
2014-08-05 08:09:59 AM  
I guess it could be worse for the Bungles. they could have traded Dalton for Buttfumble...
 
2014-08-05 08:43:52 AM  

AdamK: my favorite andy dalton highlight


Ah good times!  Thanks for the highlight...

/if only the outcome would have been different my boss (a Bengals fan) wouldn't have had to give me grief.
 
2014-08-05 08:51:49 AM  

TheOther: inclemency: bdub77: who?

Yeah. Admittedly, I'm a casual NFL fan, but 'this'.

Romo Jr.


Damn, beat me to it. I was going to say he's the Romo of the AFC. Talented, good team astound him, never wins in the playoffs.
 
2014-08-05 08:53:11 AM  
It isnt like there are great QBs out there bagging groceries or something.
 
2014-08-05 09:05:08 AM  
I understand what point subby is trying to make here but other than both being mediocre QBs, Jay Cutler and Andy Dalton are pretty different in terms of playing style.  Cutler is a reckless strong arm signal caller who fancies himself the next Brett Favre while playing more like Jeff George and struggles to stay healthy.  Dalton has meh arm strength, generally stays healthy and tries to take care of the ball, but his decision making breaks down at the first hint of pressure.
 
2014-08-05 09:05:56 AM  
I was watching the Browns-Bengals game (the one in Cincinnati) with my pops last year. After Haden intercepted Dalton and took it to the house, Dad said, "Oh, good, he got his pick-six out of the way early this game."
 
2014-08-05 09:06:44 AM  
2011 record: 9-7
2012 record: 10-6
2013 record : 11-5

Consistent improvement is nothing to sneeze at, and they're no longer a laughingstock. In 2010, they were 4-12 (which was worse than Cleveland). But if they don't win a playoff game this season, they're going to look like a team that has reached its plateau.
 
2014-08-05 09:37:50 AM  
He's getting a year out of this deal tops and then only 7 mill will count against the salary cap for next season.

There are no other options at QB and the last thing you want is to have your QB feeling like you don't have any faith in him.  He might not be THE guy but he is the best option they have right now and they should treat him like that.
 
2014-08-05 09:39:11 AM  

Cybernetic: 2011 record: 9-7
2012 record: 10-6
2013 record : 11-5

Consistent improvement is nothing to sneeze at, and they're no longer a laughingstock. In 2010, they were 4-12 (which was worse than Cleveland). But if they don't win a playoff game this season, they're going to look like a team that has reached its plateau.


That's the most important thing. Someone up thread said he "Never wins in the playoffs" and I was like, ummm, its three games? Like, we've gotten better every year Andy started. The playoff thing is nonsense (fark, Trent Dilfer won a super bowl).  The guy hasn't had a losing season as a starting QB FOR THE farkING BENGALS and that somehow means he sucks and isn't good enough.
 
2014-08-05 09:41:52 AM  

dragyne: He's getting a year out of this deal tops



I admit to not being able to understand paying average (middle of the league) quarterbacks $100 million dollar contracts, but If a team starts screwing their players like that agents will remember and start demanding HUGE amounts of guaranteed money up front

Example: Look at some of the deals Seattle had to do this summer because players and agents are becoming very distrustful of teams.
 
2014-08-05 09:48:15 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: These contracts wouldn't sound quite so ludicrous if they were actually reported as what they were instead of the way they are structured. The teams have absolutely zero intention of paying out the life of the contract. If they actually did it would destroy their salary caps.

So, what is it, really? It's 2 years at $25 million with $17 million guaranteed. Nice chunk of change, but not $115 million. And if he doesn't get them through at least the first round of the playoffs, that's probably where it will end, too. He's at best the third-best quarterback in the division, to say nothing of the league. One thing is for sure, though... when a guy like Andy Dalton gets a big reported contract like this every quarterback in the league cheers, because now any QB with any talent can use his deal as a cudgel for their own negotiations.


+1. It is a $12.5MM a year, for two years, try out. Then renewable at the team's discretion for the next four years.

ESPN was writing articles about this contract before they even knew the details. I feel like that had happened before *coughKaepernickcough*.
 
2014-08-05 09:51:01 AM  

smerfnablin: dragyne: He's getting a year out of this deal tops


I admit to not being able to understand paying average (middle of the league) quarterbacks $100 million dollar contracts, but If a team starts screwing their players like that agents will remember and start demanding HUGE amounts of guaranteed money up front

Example: Look at some of the deals Seattle had to do this summer because players and agents are becoming very distrustful of teams.


It all depends on the leverage the player has. The Seattle players had all the leverage, as Flacco did before them, because a team can't afford to appear to screw over players after winning it all. Dalton, still being stuck on his rookie deal for another year at $1 million and not having demonstrated irreplaceable talent, had almost no leverage, and thus an incentive laden extension
 
2014-08-05 09:54:54 AM  

Harry_Seldon: HawgWild: I've always considered Dalton a less talented Eli Manning.

I have always considered Eli Manning a two-time Super Bowl winner, and the Manning family Oreo cookie eating champ.


And Eli Manning got about $8 million less in his 7-year contract he got five years ago, which also translates to almost $4 million less per year on contract.
 
2014-08-05 09:59:06 AM  

Lost Thought 00: smerfnablin: dragyne: He's getting a year out of this deal tops


I admit to not being able to understand paying average (middle of the league) quarterbacks $100 million dollar contracts, but If a team starts screwing their players like that agents will remember and start demanding HUGE amounts of guaranteed money up front

Example: Look at some of the deals Seattle had to do this summer because players and agents are becoming very distrustful of teams.

It all depends on the leverage the player has. The Seattle players had all the leverage, as Flacco did before them, because a team can't afford to appear to screw over players after winning it all. Dalton, still being stuck on his rookie deal for another year at $1 million and not having demonstrated irreplaceable talent, had almost no leverage, and thus an incentive laden extension


Yeah, a guy who put up more TD's in his first 3 years than every other QB ever besides Peyton and Marino and had more than 3,300 yards a years his first three years (something only done by Cam Newton and Peyton) is totally a replaceable talent, really just waiting for Braxton Miller to get drafted (rolls eyes).
 
2014-08-05 10:01:40 AM  
Have ppl seen what's out there?  You better lock up dalton while you can.
 
2014-08-05 10:07:40 AM  

abhorrent1: sn0wblind: worlddan: mikaloyd: Hes doing OK in Cinci. Hes a god enough qb whos has already finished his bonehead years learning. And he's 26. Still a lot of possible upside in terms of improvement. He will still be in his prime at the end of 6 years. I'm not saying the Bengals got a giant bargain or anything but the kid is not a galloping hot pile of emo fail like Cutler is. Cinci didnt get robbed here.

Cutler has every right to behave like a spoiled emo kid. He has gotten the shaft from two different teams who have refused to put the weapons around him that he needs to win. There is no doubt in my mind that the difference between Cutler and Joe Montana is the system they played in.

This should get bites.  nice.

Not a troll if it's true


Alshon Jeffery, Brandon Marshall and Matt Forte are what people are calling a lack of weapons these days? The same guys who enabled Josh McCown to come in and look like the All Pro that Cutler never was?
 
2014-08-05 10:09:51 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: These contracts wouldn't sound quite so ludicrous if they were actually reported as what they were instead of the way they are structured. The teams have absolutely zero intention of paying out the life of the contract. If they actually did it would destroy their salary caps.

So, what is it, really? It's 2 years at $25 million with $17 million guaranteed. Nice chunk of change, but not $115 million. And if he doesn't get them through at least the first round of the playoffs, that's probably where it will end, too. He's at best the third-best quarterback in the division, to say nothing of the league. One thing is for sure, though... when a guy like Andy Dalton gets a big reported contract like this every quarterback in the league cheers, because now any QB with any talent can use his deal as a cudgel for their own negotiations.


Not to mention the same is true about Jay Cutler's contract. I forget the exact numbers, but the only guaranteed money is 50-something million, not the 120-something million of the total contract. All the guaranteed money is paid in three years, which is the same amount of time Trestman is under contract.

If the Bears get results, they get Cutler under market value for the years AFTER the guaranteed money. If they don't, they can cleanly pull the plug on the whole offense after three years and rebuild the team.
 
2014-08-05 10:12:08 AM  

Deneb81: EyeballKid: MmmmBacon: Bungles being Bungles the AFC North champsagain.


/ftfy
/What? Did the Fountain of Youth run off into Pittsburgh in the offseason? You think Johnny Football's gonna save the Browns?
/I don't know enough about the Ravens' chances. So, maybe them.

Bungles play a first place schedule. Ravens play a third place schedule and have improved their o-line (which was one of the worst in football last year), improved depth at TE (healthy Pitta, Owen Daniels over Dallas Clark and Ed No Hands Dickson), and WR (adding Steve Smith, Jacoby Jones healthier, Marlon Brown no longer a rookie).

They should be significantly better on offense. Defense is about the same - likely a better pass rush and run defense, slightly weaker on the back end as they're minus Ihedigbo and Graham. Elam moved from FS to a more natural SS, but there's no heir apparent at FS or third CB. Plenty of D-line and LB depth though.


You do realize that "first place schedule" amounts to 2 games, right? The Bengals play Denver and NE and the Ravens play SD and Miami. While it is a difference, it shouldn't be make or break.
 
2014-08-05 10:13:25 AM  
I would think Bengals fans would appreciate Dalton.  If you don't, just go to wikipedia and look at the W/L records over the past 20 seasons or so.  He's taken a consistently bad team and made them into a consistently bad playoff team, which is arguably an improvement.
 
2014-08-05 10:14:06 AM  

Super Chronic: abhorrent1: sn0wblind: worlddan: mikaloyd: Hes doing OK in Cinci. Hes a god enough qb whos has already finished his bonehead years learning. And he's 26. Still a lot of possible upside in terms of improvement. He will still be in his prime at the end of 6 years. I'm not saying the Bengals got a giant bargain or anything but the kid is not a galloping hot pile of emo fail like Cutler is. Cinci didnt get robbed here.

Cutler has every right to behave like a spoiled emo kid. He has gotten the shaft from two different teams who have refused to put the weapons around him that he needs to win. There is no doubt in my mind that the difference between Cutler and Joe Montana is the system they played in.

This should get bites.  nice.

Not a troll if it's true

Alshon Jeffery, Brandon Marshall and Matt Forte are what people are calling a lack of weapons these days? The same guys who enabled Josh McCown to come in and look like the All Pro that Cutler never was?


That's  what Jay has NOW, but it certainly isn't what he had when he came to the team in 2009. He also FINALLY has a real offensive line after years of being one of the most sacked QBs in the league.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Jay is going to magically be better and clean up all his technique and decision making. However, this is the first year that he'll go into a familiar system that will be able to maximize his upside while minimizing his downside. I expect that he'll have moments that mek me scream at my TV, but will put up big numbers overall.
 
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