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(Reuters)   Hey Ukraine, are you TRYING to start a direct war with Russia?   (reuters.com) divider line 87
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11416 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Aug 2014 at 7:43 AM (16 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-05 05:59:00 AM  
Cross into Russia...to avoid fighting?!
 
2014-08-05 07:04:08 AM  
mojoimage.com
 
2014-08-05 07:47:49 AM  
Fark? Siding with the bad guys? Say it isn't so!
 
2014-08-05 07:50:03 AM  

Langston: Cross into Russia...to avoid fighting?!


Russia: "finders keepers."
 
2014-08-05 07:52:13 AM  
Submitter is an active member of the communist party or has had his brain removed. But I repeat myself...
 
2014-08-05 07:53:57 AM  

UsikFark: Langston: Cross into Russia...to avoid fighting?!

Russia: "finders keepers."


Who doesn't want asylum in Siberia?
 
2014-08-05 07:54:03 AM  
I would say Russia already started it.
 
2014-08-05 07:55:57 AM  
Subby; read the article.
 
2014-08-05 07:56:05 AM  
If it were intentionally done, it could be a brilliant tactical move. Or, they could just be Mister Magooing their way to anhililation.
 
2014-08-05 08:04:57 AM  

rebelyell2006: UsikFark: Langston: Cross into Russia...to avoid fighting?!

Russia: "finders keepers."

Who doesn't want asylum in Siberia?


I hear there's a winter park with free snowshoeing and all-you-can-eat borscht. Very affordable.
 
2014-08-05 08:04:58 AM  
They are attacking mother Russia!  Bring everything online to push the invaders back over the border*

*and the border they mean is the one on the east side of Ukraine
 
2014-08-05 08:05:53 AM  
dammit i meant west ^^^^^^^^   farked that up good
 
2014-08-05 08:06:50 AM  

Langston: Cross into Russia...to avoid fighting?!


It's strategy they've got from playing Risk.
 
2014-08-05 08:09:47 AM  
Ukraine says the troops were forced (most likely unintentionally) towards the border by fighting with rebels where they were then captured by Russia. Russia says that these soldiers arrived at the border demanding asylum from Kiev's Neo-Nazi regime that is forcing them to fight the pro-Russian freedom fighters across the border.

Get the popcorn ready, because I'm not sure how you do negotiations for people that one party says is in the other country against their will and the other party says that returning them will be against their will.
 
2014-08-05 08:10:30 AM  
It seems to me the Ukrainians don't want to fight and the Russians know it.
 
2014-08-05 08:11:37 AM  
Subby fell and bumped his head.


/tardmitter fail
 
2014-08-05 08:13:44 AM  
There's some pretty good shilling going on in the Reuters comments.

I guess they will be showing up here shortly.
 
2014-08-05 08:16:45 AM  

Grungehamster: I'm not sure how you do negotiations for people that one party says is in the other country against their will and the other party says that returning them will be against their will.


Its easy. One of these groups is obviously lying. Which one? Well, that depends on your preferences.
 
2014-08-05 08:17:20 AM  
Come on, people, this wasn't the first time by the long shot! At least once before 16 (if I remember correctly) Ukrainian soldiers crossed the border to Russia (immediately surrendering, with all the white flags and shiat) trying to escape being cut off and killed by separatists. They were returned back to Ukraine. Ukrainian authorities put them under arrest as deserters, threatening up to 15 years of prison for "desertion", but Ukrainian judge put them under house arrest - it is unlikely they'll actually be in any danger of prison time.

That story with 438 soldiers crossing the border to Russia (seeking asylum from separatists) is widely discussed in Ukrainian media, with interviews with soldiers themselves, etc. Mostly the soldiers say "being cut off for weeks", "having no water or ammunition", "being promised every day that the help is coming, but having no actual help" left them no choice but to cross into Russia and surrender.

It's not some kind of sinister thing, either, you know. Soldiers are mostly conscripts, neither Russians see them as enemy nor they see Russia as some kind of monsters. Hell, I be two thirds of Ukrainian troops are ethnically Russians or half-Russians themselves, and the rest can easily pass as Russians.

There is nothing wrong with that. Well, not much wrong with it. Even Russian propaganda is not making a big huge thing out of it.

"Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, speaking to Itar-Tass and Rossiya24 TV, said Russia would facilitate the return of the Ukrainian soldiers but suggested they would be vulnerable to prosecution for desertion once they returned home."

For once, Lavrov isn't lying. Ukrainian soldiers who crossed the Russian border before, seeking asylum from separatists fire, were prosecuted (although not convicted of anything, yet!) upon return.

That's just the reality of this war.
 
2014-08-05 08:20:02 AM  
These people all seem so rational, and honest.
Hey, I have an idea!
Let's America get all involved in these people's shiat all the way up to our short hairs!
Isn't that a brilliant plan?
 
2014-08-05 08:20:32 AM  

Grungehamster: Get the popcorn ready, because I'm not sure how you do negotiations for people that one party says is in the other country against their will and the other party says that returning them will be against their will.


Talk with the people themselves? They are available for journalists, they have phones and can be called, they gave interviews to Ukrainian press... Hell, 150 of them have already returned to Ukraine (although they apparently were attacked by separatists when they've crossed the border back). So goddamn ask them!
 
2014-08-05 08:22:53 AM  

Ned Stark: Its easy. One of these groups is obviously lying. Which one? Well, that depends on your preferences.


Well may be, just _may be_, among those 438 soldiers some had different motivations than others? Some were forced by separatists fire. Officers may be tried to save their people, many of whom are probably conscripts, but are ready to return and continue fighting themselves. Some of the conscripts genuinely don't want to go back to fighting, because conscription does wonders for morale. So may be it's not as simple?
 
2014-08-05 08:23:38 AM  

Ned Stark: Grungehamster: I'm not sure how you do negotiations for people that one party says is in the other country against their will and the other party says that returning them will be against their will.

Its easy. One of these groups is obviously lying. Which one? Well, that depends on your preferences.


Both sides are bad
 
2014-08-05 08:31:29 AM  

jso2897: These people all seem so rational, and honest.
Hey, I have an idea!
Let's America get all involved in these people's shiat all the way up to our short hairs!
Isn't that a brilliant plan?


....and that's why I'll never vote for a neo-Conservative. ( what's really sad is that many Democrats have just as much a hard-on for an "American Empire" as those guys...)
 
2014-08-05 08:33:17 AM  

jso2897: These people all seem so rational, and honest.
Hey, I have an idea!
Let's America get all involved in these people's shiat all the way up to our short hairs!
Isn't that a brilliant plan?


Actually, I'm for a few drone strikes on any heavy equipment the separatis might have. They've already shot one airliner out of the sky. We know we can't trust them not to view all these advanced weapons as a great Nintendo game.

Then again, Russia would just use it as an excuse to provide 'more' (seriously Vlad, quit pretending, you're giving these guys all the hardware they need to keep Ukraine off balance) support for the Russians (er Separatist Ukranians) in that part of the country seeking to create a buffer and scare the shiat out of any country tempted to side with the EU over Russia economically.
 
2014-08-05 08:34:07 AM  
You know who else crossed over into Russia?

theridgewoodblog.net


/Also Hitler.
 
2014-08-05 08:34:37 AM  
No 'one does not simply walk into Russia to avoid fighting' memes :(
 
2014-08-05 08:41:22 AM  
We are at war with Eurasia. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

/until Big Brother says we are at war with Eastasia
 
2014-08-05 08:42:28 AM  

MythDragon: You know who else crossed over into Russia?

[theridgewoodblog.net image 800x502]


/Also Hitler.



They didn't cross over into Russia -- it was Czechoslovakia!  It's like going into Wisconsin.
 
2014-08-05 08:43:10 AM  

Langston: Cross into Russia...to avoid fighting?!


A.k.a. "deserting"
 
2014-08-05 08:47:01 AM  
I don't know all the details; seems some of them may just want asylum for a rest...they're done fighting. It happens.

I DO know that subby is a retard.
 
2014-08-05 08:50:24 AM  
Yeah, its the Ukraine that is trying to start the war.

/rolls eyes
 
2014-08-05 08:50:48 AM  
Needs more sanctions.

Letsee. No General Motors vehicles for the top 5 Putin aids. Oh heck, throw in a strongly worded letter while we're at it.

Anyway, that "thing" that the Ukraine guys are doing? The technical term is "surrender".
 
2014-08-05 08:51:15 AM  

Grungehamster: Ukraine says the troops were forced (most likely unintentionally) towards the border by fighting with rebels where they were then captured by Russia. Russia says that these soldiers arrived at the border demanding asylum from Kiev's Neo-Nazi regime that is forcing them to fight the pro-Russian freedom fighters across the border.

Get the popcorn ready, because I'm not sure how you do negotiations for people that one party says is in the other country against their will and the other party says that returning them will be against their will.


The obvious solution is to send them to a third country that doesn't give a shiat about this situation (say, Brazil) and let them either get asylum there or go home based on their preference.

This will obviously not happen.
 
2014-08-05 08:52:21 AM  

Destructor: Needs more sanctions.

Letsee. No General Motors vehicles for the top 5 Putin aids. Oh heck, throw in a strongly worded letter while we're at it.

Anyway, that "thing" that the Ukraine guys are doing? The technical term is "surrender".


Better idea: sanctions on all foreign cars not made by General Motors.
 
2014-08-05 08:54:14 AM  
 
2014-08-05 08:55:37 AM  

Arkanaut: Langston: Cross into Russia...to avoid fighting?!

A.k.a. "deserting"


Well, yes, technically. I mean, does it counts as deserting if you are in real danger of being killed? Okay, technically that's what war is about, but you can't really expect conscripts to fight to the death for something they don't care about. Well, technically you can, and you can put them to prison for decades for desertion, but it's hardly a good PR move.

FeatheredSun: I don't know all the details; seems some of them may just want asylum for a rest...they're done fighting. It happens.

I DO know that subby is a retard.


Well, if Ukrainian soldiers actually fought against Russia, subby may not be a retard. But even right now, as far as I know, there are direct trains and planes Ukraine-Moscow, with Russians crossing into Ukraine and Ukrainians crossing into Russia, without visa (russian men of fighting age are the exception), so it's not as if Russia and Ukraine closed the borders for each other.

Those soldiers were simply entering Russia as tourists without visa, as is their right.
 
2014-08-05 08:56:47 AM  

Delta1212: Destructor: Needs more sanctions.

Letsee. No General Motors vehicles for the top 5 Putin aids. Oh heck, throw in a strongly worded letter while we're at it.

Anyway, that "thing" that the Ukraine guys are doing? The technical term is "surrender".

Better idea: sanctions on all foreign cars not made by General Motors.


Well... Okay, but only to the top 20 Putin aids.

/glasnost unlock achievement award... ;-)
 
2014-08-05 08:58:43 AM  
Russian propaganda and one big city Texas newspaper reported this as an invasion that required Russian mobilization and counter attack two days ago.

But if you filled up at a Conoco-Philips-LukOil or an old renamed Mobile gas station you probably already knew this.
 
2014-08-05 09:01:40 AM  

proteus_b: Submitter is an active member of the communist party or has had his brain removed. But I repeat myself...


Why would active member of the communist party defend ultra-right ultra-religious regime with very close ties to criminal gangs-in-law?
 
2014-08-05 09:02:03 AM  

BitwiseShift: Russian propaganda and one big city Texas newspaper reported this as an invasion that required Russian mobilization and counter attack two days ago.


Well, don't know about Texas newspaper, but Russian propaganda presented it as "poor Ukrainian conscripts not wanting to fight against their own people, and thus deserting by thousands, including fleeing to Russia", not like any sort of invasion.
 
2014-08-05 09:16:00 AM  
Why do people with no understanding of a situation get to write the headlines AND get them accepted?
 
2014-08-05 09:21:07 AM  
They walked into Russia to avoid the fighting and to seek asylum.  That hardly sounds like an act of war.

//Subby must not have RTFA.
 
2014-08-05 09:25:59 AM  

LewDux: Ned Stark: Grungehamster: I'm not sure how you do negotiations for people that one party says is in the other country against their will and the other party says that returning them will be against their will.

Its easy. One of these groups is obviously lying. Which one? Well, that depends on your preferences.

Both sides are bad


You're right, we should invade Russia. Totes.
 
2014-08-05 09:29:13 AM  

Ned Stark: LewDux: Ned Stark: Grungehamster: I'm not sure how you do negotiations for people that one party says is in the other country against their will and the other party says that returning them will be against their will.

Its easy. One of these groups is obviously lying. Which one? Well, that depends on your preferences.

Both sides are bad

You're right, we should invade Russia. Totes.


You mentioned invading Russia at least 2 times..
 
2014-08-05 09:31:12 AM  
Is it really true that confronting Russia militarily must automatically trigger a nuclear war? The US needs to stay out of it, but if the EU brought in air support for the Ukraine I don't see how Russia could respond with ICBMs. They know that would lead to their own destruction.
 
2014-08-05 09:33:37 AM  

LewDux: Ned Stark: LewDux: Ned Stark: Grungehamster: I'm not sure how you do negotiations for people that one party says is in the other country against their will and the other party says that returning them will be against their will.

Its easy. One of these groups is obviously lying. Which one? Well, that depends on your preferences.

Both sides are bad

You're right, we should invade Russia. Totes.

You mentioned invading Russia at least 2 times..


I enjoy it. Banana smoothies, long walks on the beach, desperate struggles across all of eastern Europe. My top 3.
 
2014-08-05 09:39:25 AM  

Langston: Cross into Russia...to avoid fighting?!


For some reason, I read that in Jerry Seinfeld's voice.
 
2014-08-05 09:39:35 AM  
Nice little pipeline you have there. It'd be sad if something happened to it. Oh BUK! What was that?
 
2014-08-05 09:40:44 AM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Is it really true that confronting Russia militarily must automatically trigger a nuclear war?


No.

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: The US needs to stay out of it, but if the EU brought in air support for the Ukraine I don't see how Russia could respond with ICBMs.


They won't. They'll respond with Buks and Russian fighters. And while a single Russian fighter is no match for EU fighters, Russia has a lot of them. And then it's hundreds of planes burning across whole Eastern Europe and what's then?
 
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