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(Guardian)   Columnist belatedly discovers Minecraft, declares it the best computer game since "Elite" in 1984. Whatever that was   (theguardian.com) divider line 103
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2113 clicks; posted to Geek » on 03 Aug 2014 at 11:44 AM (20 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-03 08:36:17 AM  
Elite. Oh my God.
 
2014-08-03 08:45:46 AM  
Elite Dangerous is all kinds of awesome.
 
2014-08-03 09:03:58 AM  

enry: Elite Dangerous is all kinds of awesome.


I ... would not go that far.  I'd say it's promising.


Also, Elite was cool as hell.  I don't believe I have to inform you where you should be in respect to my lawn, submitter.
 
2014-08-03 10:52:14 AM  
Elite was amazing at the time.
 
2014-08-03 11:33:43 AM  
Elite was freaking fantastic.
 
2014-08-03 11:57:19 AM  
Ghost written?

img.fark.net
 
2014-08-03 12:09:00 PM  

Relatively Obscure: enry: Elite Dangerous is all kinds of awesome.

I ... would not go that far.  I'd say it's promising.


Also, Elite was cool as hell.  I don't believe I have to inform you where you should be in respect to my lawn, submitter.


agreed, it's got potential.

between Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen, it's a good time to be a space sim gamer.
 
2014-08-03 12:09:28 PM  
never played elite but looks cool.  graphically looks like battlezone
 
2014-08-03 12:22:34 PM  
Years ago I would be singing the same praise for Minecraft, but eventually I realized what a dull, sterile experience it really is to play.
 
2014-08-03 12:24:14 PM  
I just restarted playing Minecraft about a week ago. Still fun, still a time suck.
 
2014-08-03 12:36:16 PM  

Foxxinnia: Years ago I would be singing the same praise for Minecraft, but eventually I realized what a dull, sterile experience it really is to play.


I can't play it for long stretches of time, but I find it to be relaxing more than exciting.  Like painting or something.
 
2014-08-03 12:57:26 PM  

Relatively Obscure: Foxxinnia: Years ago I would be singing the same praise for Minecraft, but eventually I realized what a dull, sterile experience it really is to play.

I can't play it for long stretches of time, but I find it to be relaxing more than exciting.  Like painting or something.


This. I come back to it every so often when I feel like building some happy little trees.
 
2014-08-03 12:58:25 PM  

germ78: I just restarted playing Minecraft about a week ago. Still fun, still a time suck.


Yeah, I played it for a while a few years ago but then kind of got bored of it.  Then my friend pointed me to the Hexxit version that has, like, 50 mods attached to it so there's tons of randomly-spawned dungeons and new stuff to build, and even chocobo breeding ala Final Fantasy 7 that allow you to get over certain terrain much more easily.  Soo, now I've been sinking hours a day into it again.
 
2014-08-03 01:20:48 PM  
It is unpossible to get bored with Minecraft. You can run out of ideas I suppose, but that is your fault. Even the mind-numbing repetition of gathering supplies is soothing.
 
2014-08-03 01:28:16 PM  
Minecraft is boring. I'd rather play with legos.
 
2014-08-03 01:28:34 PM  

Old Man Winter: Even the mind-numbing repetition of gathering supplies is soothing.


Some people hate that part. Which is why I recommend Factorio to them. In that game you don't run back and forth gathering resources over and over, you build machines to do it all for you.
 
2014-08-03 01:32:45 PM  
I like stuffing my bag with basic supplies to build a mini house, and then taking a boat ride as far as I can. Even better if I can't find my way back to my original house.
 
2014-08-03 01:48:01 PM  

Bonzo_1116: I like stuffing my bag with basic supplies to build a mini house, and then taking a boat ride as far as I can. Even better if I can't find my way back to my original house.


Use the random seed 'java' to start on a deserted island in middle of the ocean.
 
2014-08-03 01:51:40 PM  

germ78: Bonzo_1116: I like stuffing my bag with basic supplies to build a mini house, and then taking a boat ride as far as I can. Even better if I can't find my way back to my original house.

Use the random seed 'java' to start on a deserted island in middle of the ocean.


scratch that. they must have changed the world-gen algorithm, because it now starts you in a savanna near a desert town.
 
2014-08-03 02:03:34 PM  

germ78: Bonzo_1116: I like stuffing my bag with basic supplies to build a mini house, and then taking a boat ride as far as I can. Even better if I can't find my way back to my original house.

Use the random seed 'java' to start on a deserted island in middle of the ocean.


Minecraft hard mode?
 
2014-08-03 02:08:06 PM  
i'm still shocked at how well minecraft is selling... isn't it close to being the number one selling game of all time or something? i played it back in 2010, built a castle, and declared that i had "won the game"... i only revisited once later when they added portals and "hell"
 
2014-08-03 02:28:53 PM  
I found my new space brick game space engineers to be better suited to my tastes.......
 
2014-08-03 02:29:27 PM  

germ78: germ78: Bonzo_1116: I like stuffing my bag with basic supplies to build a mini house, and then taking a boat ride as far as I can. Even better if I can't find my way back to my original house.

Use the random seed 'java' to start on a deserted island in middle of the ocean.

scratch that. they must have changed the world-gen algorithm, because it now starts you in a savanna near a desert town.


Oh yeah, that's gonna change with pretty much every new update.

AdamK: i played it back in 2010, built a castle, and declared that i had "won the game"... i only revisited once later when they added portals and "hell"


Well now they have hell, towns with NPCs that you can trade with, potion making, enchanting, pistons, dispensers, and a few other machines, new ore, new biomes, cats and dogs to tame, more enemies and animals, an "end boss" to fight as well as mini boss to summon in hell, new crops to farm, the ability to breed and keep animals, and I'm sure I'm missing a few things.

The game is pretty fleshed out now, and with some of the mod packs it gets downright crazy. I might have to start playing again sometime soon..
 
2014-08-03 03:03:37 PM  
But the most implausible thing of all is that this ostensibly simplistic and unrealistic game currently has more than 40 million players worldwide,
 

Nah, there's really nothing implausible about this.  Simple games appeal to simple people.

Old Man Winter: You can run out of ideas I suppose, but that is your fault.


Ah, the classic "If you don't like the game, it's because you don't have an imagination" argument, which I do agree is the appeal, because it's the kind of friendly, non-combative (i.e. boring) approach to design where the player can play the game any way they want and not be "wrong".  (It's the perfect game for a generation of players who, as Don Daglow said, view failure states as a problem with the game, rather than the player's ability to overcome the challenges presented by the developer.)  Quite frankly, it doesn't sound like much of a game to me at all, and none of which matters anyway, because the way the possibility space in Minecraft can be arranged is so basic and tedious (both mechanically and aesthetically) that "Why bother?"
 
2014-08-03 03:08:02 PM  
Mein Kraft!
 
2014-08-03 03:08:16 PM  
Elite was amazing. Was so stoked when I could afford the auto-docking option....and then realized that was half the fun.
 
2014-08-03 03:14:34 PM  

Vertdang: Relatively Obscure: enry: Elite Dangerous is all kinds of awesome.

I ... would not go that far.  I'd say it's promising.


Also, Elite was cool as hell.  I don't believe I have to inform you where you should be in respect to my lawn, submitter.

agreed, it's got potential.

between Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen, it's a good time to be a space sim gamer.


At least Elite Dangerous is actually going to be released in a timely manner.
 
2014-08-03 03:16:00 PM  

mr smart the great: I found my new space brick game space engineers to be better suited to my tastes.......


Oh, that one is fun, too. I like building a base inside an asteroid. The big tunnels on the inside of some of them are really creepy for some reason. Ship building is a bit tedious, though. Especially in survival. I always prefer to capture loose ships sailing by and use them for my own.

Mike_LowELL: Simple games appeal to simple people.


Ah, the classic "if you like what I don't like you're dumb" argument.
 
2014-08-03 03:16:24 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Vertdang: Relatively Obscure: enry: Elite Dangerous is all kinds of awesome.

I ... would not go that far.  I'd say it's promising.


Also, Elite was cool as hell.  I don't believe I have to inform you where you should be in respect to my lawn, submitter.

agreed, it's got potential.

between Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen, it's a good time to be a space sim gamer.

At least Elite Dangerous is actually going to be released in a timely manner.


Oh good.  People weren't dick waving about these games in enough places.  I'm glad someone's trying to do it here, too.
 
2014-08-03 03:39:42 PM  

Old Man Winter: It is unpossible to get bored with Minecraft. You can run out of ideas I suppose, but that is your fault. Even the mind-numbing repetition of gathering supplies is soothing.


Yeah you can build lots a crap, but none of it means anything. "Look at this awesome castle!" But why? Nothing in the game is a threat to you unless you're a moron. You don't need a castle. "Look how efficient I am at making bread." But you'll never need that much bread. "Look at this huge city!" But it's not a city, because no one lives there. Building crap is just the first half. The second half is seeing how well it works. Roller Coaster Tycoon and the first four Sim Cities are fantastic games because the building is just the foundation. The fun is the huge number of consequences your buildings have on each other and how to manage them to be more successful. There's none of that in Minecraft. It's just static objects that result in nothing dynamic whatsoever.
 
2014-08-03 03:43:27 PM  

Foxxinnia: Yeah you can build lots a crap, but none of it means anything. "Look at this awesome castle!" But why? Nothing in the game is a threat to you unless you're a moron. You don't need a castle. "Look how efficient I am at making bread." But you'll never need that much bread. "Look at this huge city!" But it's not a city, because no one lives there. Building crap is just the first half. The second half is seeing how well it works. Roller Coaster Tycoon and the first four Sim Cities are fantastic games because the building is just the foundation. The fun is the huge number of consequences your buildings have on each other and how to manage them to be more successful. There's none of that in Minecraft. It's just static objects that result in nothing dynamic whatsoever.


You can, in fact, populate cities now, but I wouldn't call it super interesting.  But you can.
 
2014-08-03 03:44:16 PM  
I see a lot of folks talking about Minecraft being "boring". Sure, single-player vanilla Minecraft has gotten kind of boring, but there are other ways to play...

If you want a more dangerous Minecraft experience, try the Blood & Bones pack on Feed the Beast... tornados, windstorms, zombies that break torches, infernal mobs, vanilla food only restores 1/2 of a hunger unit, rain puts torches out, no vanilla tools, mob difficulty ramps up as time passes... it's hell.

For a slightly less dangerous pack, try Magic Farm 2, also on FTB.

I haven't played vanilla Minecraft for a while now, but modded Minecraft is still fun for me. Between FTB, Technic, and ATLauncher, there are TONS of mod packs out there. A lot of those modpacks are near-total conversions... including modern warfare, space exploration, all-magic, all-tech, even a VERY good modded sky block map (Agrarian Skies).

www.feed-the-beast.com (IMO the 3rd-party packs here are better than the official ones)

www.technicpack.net (mostly on older versions of Minecraft, but some good packs including Hexxit)

www.atlauncher.com (mostly youtubers' streaming/upload packs, plus Pixelmon)
 
2014-08-03 03:45:42 PM  
The only people in your household who will be astonished that two computer game manuals are selling like hot cakes are the adults.

For one, I would not consider those game manuals but guides, and second, the fact those are selling well for a game such as Minecraft is rather ridiculous due to the amount of fleshed out wikis available. Any game of sufficient appeal, depth, or breadth will have two wikis spawned in the first week with the majority of content filled in the first month. With how known and played Minecraft is and accessible and immediate the internet is... that guides are selling at all is strange. Besides, adults are massive consumers of video games; this suggestion is as ignorant as the rest of the article.
 
2014-08-03 03:47:32 PM  

Foxxinnia: The fun is the huge number of consequences your buildings have on each other and how to manage them to be more successful.


I can agree with that. That is  alsoa way to have fun. Can there not exist multiple ways to enjoy yourself, though? Different strokes for different folks, or even the same folks caught in a different mood that day?
 
2014-08-03 03:48:00 PM  

Mentalpatient87: germ78: germ78: Bonzo_1116: I like stuffing my bag with basic supplies to build a mini house, and then taking a boat ride as far as I can. Even better if I can't find my way back to my original house.

Use the random seed 'java' to start on a deserted island in middle of the ocean.

scratch that. they must have changed the world-gen algorithm, because it now starts you in a savanna near a desert town.

Oh yeah, that's gonna change with pretty much every new update.


I just gave the seed gen 'Java' which starts you on an island in an ocean, but there are trees and mobs of sheep (and an enderman) around which wasn't nearly as sporting as 'java' where it was nothing but a flat, sparse landscape surrounded by endless ocean and a small cave.
 
2014-08-03 04:16:31 PM  

Mentalpatient87: Ah, the classic "if you like what I don't like you're dumb" argument.


In fairness, I was simply showcasing "it's popular so it must be good" for exactly what it is.
 
2014-08-03 04:17:07 PM  

Mentalpatient87: Foxxinnia: The fun is the huge number of consequences your buildings have on each other and how to manage them to be more successful.

I can agree with that. That is  alsoa way to have fun. Can there not exist multiple ways to enjoy yourself, though? Different strokes for different folks, or even the same folks caught in a different mood that day?


That's right. I can acknowledge that. People can definitely enjoy different things. However, looking at it as a game it's utterly lacking in all the things that make a 'video game' interesting. If you just want to use it as a Lego simulator where you can walk around in and make crazy stuff then it's great for that.
 
2014-08-03 04:21:42 PM  

Foxxinnia: However, looking at it as a game it's utterly lacking in all the things that make a 'video game' interesting.


Except being a video game that people find interesting.  But other than that, you may be on to something ;)


I did find it funny when I was trying to describe it to someone else verbally, how awful it sounded even to myself, though.  But none of those things means it's 'utterly lacking' as long as folks are having fun with it.
 
2014-08-03 04:31:32 PM  

Foxxinnia: However, looking at it as a game it's utterly lacking in all the things that make a 'video game' interesting.


Such as? It's got systems, combat, puzzles, exploration, et cetera.

Mike_LowELL: In fairness, I was simply showcasing "it's popular so it must be good" for exactly what it is.


In fairness, no you weren't and you're not fooling anybody. You have a narrow definition of what video games should be and you think anyone who likes things outside of that must have something wrong with them. It's kind of a general theme with you.
 
2014-08-03 04:36:28 PM  

natmar_76: Minecraft is boring. I'd rather play with legos.


Minecraft is a game in exactly the same way Autocad isn't
 
2014-08-03 04:38:32 PM  

Relatively Obscure: Foxxinnia: However, looking at it as a game it's utterly lacking in all the things that make a 'video game' interesting.

Except being a video game that people find interesting.  But other than that, you may be on to something ;)


I did find it funny when I was trying to describe it to someone else verbally, how awful it sounded even to myself, though.  But none of those things means it's 'utterly lacking' as long as folks are having fun with it.


I guess the correct word is 'good.' Bad things can still be interesting.
 
2014-08-03 04:40:25 PM  
Wasn't "Elite" a kind of typewriter?

/I'm old
 
2014-08-03 04:42:45 PM  

Foxxinnia: I guess the correct word is 'good.' Bad things can still be interesting.


So what is the game "utterly lacking" in goodness, then? You didn't answer me.
 
2014-08-03 04:54:38 PM  
elite was the first game i bought on my c64. it was also the first game i quit my job for just so i could play it 24/7/365 until i didn't have rent money. mostly it was anything sid meiers after that or just to say the hell with it and go fishing and get drunk for several months at a time. LANKOSO live alone no kids or significant other. or MMIM. my money is mine [period]
 
2014-08-03 04:56:40 PM  

Mentalpatient87: Foxxinnia: However, looking at it as a game it's utterly lacking in all the things that make a 'video game' interesting.

Such as? It's got systems, combat, puzzles, exploration, et cetera.


All those systems are either flat out bad or poorly realized. Combat is spastic. You jump up and down and swing a sword and the enemies are too stupid to kill you. Exploration is close to pointless because it's extremely easy to find what you need. Enchanting is pointless because all it does is make the easy things even easier. The quality in resources is linear, so there's no decision making. Once you find enough diamond all the other resources are irrelevant. And you're doing all this to make bigger and bigger Potemkin villages that don't have any real use. The only system that injects some intellectual interest is the redstone, but that's hampered by how clumsy it can be and how much room it takes up.
 
2014-08-03 04:59:28 PM  

Foxxinnia: I guess the correct word is 'good.' Bad things can still be interesting.


Heh.  Oh, you.
 
2014-08-03 05:06:32 PM  
I prefer Grand Theft Auto 5. Also i really enjoyed Dragon Age 2. And transformers 4
 
2014-08-03 05:08:23 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Vertdang: Relatively Obscure: enry: Elite Dangerous is all kinds of awesome.

I ... would not go that far.  I'd say it's promising.


Also, Elite was cool as hell.  I don't believe I have to inform you where you should be in respect to my lawn, submitter.

agreed, it's got potential.

between Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen, it's a good time to be a space sim gamer.

At least Elite Dangerous is actually going to be released in a timely manner.


I would hope so, it's been in development for 7 years.
 
2014-08-03 05:19:20 PM  

charlesmartel11235: I prefer Grand Theft Auto 5. Also i really enjoyed Dragon Age 2. And transformers 4


I haven't played a Grand Theft Auto game since I *think* the original (I didn't own it).  It didn't do much for me, then, but I suppose I should eventually give them a shot.
 
2014-08-03 05:20:20 PM  

Relatively Obscure: charlesmartel11235: I prefer Grand Theft Auto 5. Also i really enjoyed Dragon Age 2. And transformers 4

I haven't played a Grand Theft Auto game since I *think* the original (I didn't own it).  It didn't do much for me, then, but I suppose I should eventually give them a shot.


Upon inspection, I think it was III.  My bad.
 
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