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(CityLab)   Free parking is actually quite costly   (citylab.com) divider line 51
    More: Ironic  
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8178 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Aug 2014 at 5:05 AM (6 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-03 03:55:32 AM
Parking may be free, but the gas still gets you. The math is still in favor of public transit, assuming these amazingly talented people can do math...

Also, I'm in Texas and we don't believe in mass transit, so ... I don't know where I'm going with this, but hey ... I still have a half a glass of wine!
 
2014-08-03 05:12:05 AM
Surprise!
 If given a choice, most normal people don't LIKE public transit and those who use it.
/romero...live on the scene. Back to you Ted.
 
2014-08-03 05:14:55 AM
I work weird hours, there are tons of transients and crazy people outside my building downtown. There's no mass transit that's viable from my house to work.

A co-worker used to bike in, the storage lockers were filled with roaches.

There's not much incentive to not drive.
 
2014-08-03 05:22:30 AM
Hmmm... in the market they measured, parking ordinarily costs a non-trivial amount of money, doesn't it?  I mean, if I just want to park my car anywhere in the metro DC area, I'm going to pay a pretty penny, aren't I?

If so, offering free parking is a bit like offering free money, even if it's just the perception of free money.  I can see how that, combined with the freedom of driving your own car would skew the numbers.

Plus, how many folks figure "Hey, if I want to go out for dinner / a show / whatever after work, I could just leave my car parked at work, and not worry about having to catch a train off peak or hail a cab" and use the lot at work for double-duty?
 
2014-08-03 05:27:56 AM

im14u2c: Hmmm... in the market they measured, parking ordinarily costs a non-trivial amount of money, doesn't it?  I mean, if I just want to park my car anywhere in the metro DC area, I'm going to pay a pretty penny, aren't I?

If so, offering free parking is a bit like offering free money, even if it's just the perception of free money.  I can see how that, combined with the freedom of driving your own car would skew the numbers.

Plus, how many folks figure "Hey, if I want to go out for dinner / a show / whatever after work, I could just leave my car parked at work, and not worry about having to catch a train off peak or hail a cab" and use the lot at work for double-duty?


I use my work lot whenever I go downtown.
 
2014-08-03 05:36:17 AM
So, according to all those different charts, the hot dog I had in Atlanta when I watched the Braves play about 10 years ago... just now came out of me this past week?
 
2014-08-03 05:41:23 AM
I'd like to see the numbers on the employees that actually lived close enough to not have to drive their cars in and see what they would choose based on the scenarios given in the article.

If most live in the suburbs or further out,  and couldn't catch a bus or train even if they wanted to then those numbers in the article are going to be skewed quite a bit and become pretty meaningless.
 
2014-08-03 06:38:28 AM

SecretAgentWoman: Parking may be free, but the gas still gets you. The math is still in favor of public transit, assuming these amazingly talented people can do math...

Also, I'm in Texas and we don't believe in mass transit, so ... I don't know where I'm going with this, but hey ... I still have a half a glass of wine!


The bus system in Houston is just fine, thank you.
 
2014-08-03 07:05:19 AM
I thought Free Parking earned you $500 if you land on it..
 
2014-08-03 07:05:27 AM

mr lawson: Surprise!
 If given a choice, most normal people don't LIKE public transit and those who use it.
/romero...live on the scene. Back to you Ted.

 And here's the REAL reason Republicans hate mass transit - those people get to use it
/yes, we've noticed you're a racist.
 
2014-08-03 07:07:28 AM

ILoveBurritos: im14u2c: Hmmm... in the market they measured, parking ordinarily costs a non-trivial amount of money, doesn't it?  I mean, if I just want to park my car anywhere in the metro DC area, I'm going to pay a pretty penny, aren't I?

If so, offering free parking is a bit like offering free money, even if it's just the perception of free money.  I can see how that, combined with the freedom of driving your own car would skew the numbers.

Plus, how many folks figure "Hey, if I want to go out for dinner / a show / whatever after work, I could just leave my car parked at work, and not worry about having to catch a train off peak or hail a cab" and use the lot at work for double-duty?

I use my work lot whenever I go downtown.


I'm glad to see that American adults have not gone retarded.

/seriously
//free benefits are awesome
///i take public transit as I got rid of my car
 
2014-08-03 07:18:32 AM
a household travel survey of 4,630 people with full-time jobs in the metro Washington, D.C., area

Ironic that they studied the one metro area that was built so that the guys from Georgia and the guys from Boston would have the same commute, a place that wouldn't exist if it wasn't for an increasingly generous and steady stream of money from federal government operations.

Clearly it would only be just and efficient to move the nation's capital to Plato, Missouri.
 
2014-08-03 07:25:49 AM
 What this study shows is how awful public transportation is and what a pain it is to park in the city. They're looking at symptoms, not the real issue.
 
2014-08-03 07:44:17 AM
We need to incentivize human powered commuting (running, walking, cycling) and provide disincentives for driving. Peak oil can't get here soon enough... And burbs need to be bulldozed. Did I miss anything? How many of you lazy farks would cycle to work if you got a beej a week for doing it?
 
2014-08-03 07:47:14 AM
We have no light rail, Axl Rose keeps a more dependable schedule than the buses and there are no cycling routes that aren't classified as a suicide attempt.
 
2014-08-03 07:51:47 AM

ghare: mr lawson: Surprise!
 If given a choice, most normal people don't LIKE public transit and those who use it.
/romero...live on the scene. Back to you Ted.
 And here's the REAL reason Republicans hate mass transit - those people get to use it
/yes, we've noticed you're a racist.


Battle-scarred veteran of DC area public transit here.

You find Those People mainly on local buses and some urban rail systems.  Metro and MARC carry more of a mixed crowd, and the commuter buses, at least between Columbia and Washington, tend to have a lot of people wearing suits.  I never rode VRE.

You can read a book or put on some headphones (you'll want noise cancelers of course, and ear buds suck anyway) and let the professional driver up front deal with the morons on the road.

/The bigger vehicle has the right of way
 
2014-08-03 08:13:37 AM
If I had other options to get to work I would use them. I don't, so I drive.
 
2014-08-03 09:01:15 AM
The study was far too limited to make any conclusions. I'd pay $10.00 a day to park to avoid a 2.5 hour each way bus ride with 3 transfers. But then, I don't live in the 61 square miles surrounded by reality that is the District.
 
2014-08-03 09:13:08 AM
It works in Philadelphia, except when it doesn't. One bus strike even left the bus drivers stranded in their own buses, at the other end of ButtFark on their routes.

Lots of cities, including the DC Virginia Maryland metro, shutter their mass transit about the same time that small towns roll up the sidewalks, making it awkward and dangerous to take public transit to a concert or show and try to get home on the same system.
 
2014-08-03 09:23:11 AM
Metro DC is thankfully not representative of the country as a whole.
 
2014-08-03 09:25:18 AM

PanicMan: Metro DC is thankfully not representative of the country as a whole.


Unfortunately, denizens of the Emerald City believe that they ARE representative.
 
2014-08-03 09:26:48 AM
My commute door to door is fifty miles each way. There is no transit system that can get me to work. I guess I could take a greyhound every morning and then cab it from the bus station? That would be completely time inefficient. Until my work sends a helicopter for me every morning, I'm going to have to continue to drive.
 
2014-08-03 09:32:30 AM

bearcats1983: My commute door to door is fifty miles each way. There is no transit system that can get me to work. I guess I could take a greyhound every morning and then cab it from the bus station? That would be completely time inefficient. Until my work sends a helicopter for me every morning, I'm going to have to continue to drive.


Why would anyone near a cheap Ohio city have a 100 mile round trip commute?

Well it seems you chose to live in the boonies and now you are biatching.
 
2014-08-03 09:42:05 AM

blacksho89: PanicMan: Metro DC is thankfully not representative of the country as a whole.

Unfortunately, denizens of the Emerald City believe that they ARE representative.


You couldn't pay me enough to live there again.
 
2014-08-03 09:43:25 AM

Travis_Bickle: Why would anyone near a cheap Ohio city have a 100 mile round trip commute?

Well it seems you chose to live in the boonies and now you are biatching.


Does Drew lend out his helicopter? Sounds like he's in the neighborhood.
 
2014-08-03 09:44:03 AM

SecretAgentWoman: Parking may be free, but the gas still gets you. The math is still in favor of public transit, assuming these amazingly talented people can do math...

Also, I'm in Texas and we don't believe in mass transit, so ... I don't know where I'm going with this, but hey ... I still have a half a glass of wine!


We have mass transit, in the bigger cities. Fort Worth and Dallas have pretty well developed systems.

I wish my small city had it, but its five minutes to anywhere where I live.
 
2014-08-03 09:45:56 AM

Travis_Bickle: bearcats1983: My commute door to door is fifty miles each way. There is no transit system that can get me to work. I guess I could take a greyhound every morning and then cab it from the bus station? That would be completely time inefficient. Until my work sends a helicopter for me every morning, I'm going to have to continue to drive.

Why would anyone near a cheap Ohio city have a 100 mile round trip commute?

Well it seems you chose to live in the boonies and now you are biatching.


Lighten up, Francis.  He wasn't biatching...just stating his situation.

I have reasonably close public transportation near me, but I choose to drive because time is my most valuable commodity.  I'm fortunate to live in a metro area that's not plagues with awful traffic and driving to work takes half the time of public transportation.
 
2014-08-03 09:50:14 AM

Travis_Bickle: bearcats1983: My commute door to door is fifty miles each way. There is no transit system that can get me to work. I guess I could take a greyhound every morning and then cab it from the bus station? That would be completely time inefficient. Until my work sends a helicopter for me every morning, I'm going to have to continue to drive.

Why would anyone near a cheap Ohio city have a 100 mile round trip commute?

Well it seems you chose to live in the boonies and now you are biatching.


I live in Cincy, like five minutes from downtown. My office is in Dayton, straight up 75. Nice try, smart ass.
 
2014-08-03 10:11:00 AM
Our house rules are that Free Parking collects the accumulated fines, taxes, and fees.

img2u.info
I see in the latest game rules book, however, Hasbro has gone out of their way to dissuade anybody from doing that, even while introducing new things like a "Speed die" and some new Community Chest/Chance cards as well as new values on almost everything.

Screw you, Hasbro!
 
2014-08-03 10:18:37 AM

SecretAgentWoman: Parking may be free, but the gas still gets you. The math is still in favor of public transit, assuming these amazingly talented people can do math...

Also, I'm in Texas and we don't believe in mass transit, so ... I don't know where I'm going with this, but hey ... I still have a half a glass of wine!


I did the math yesterday and for my 20 mile commute around DC, it came out to $4.46 per day round-trip to drive to work in gas (24 mpg), wear and tear, maintenance items, etc.Taking metro is $5.90 each way ($11.80 round trip) plus an extra hour each way. Assuming I walked to the station, so no parking fee. Now if parking cost $10, yeah I'd save money on metro.
 
2014-08-03 10:19:47 AM

bearcats1983: Travis_Bickle: bearcats1983: My commute door to door is fifty miles each way. There is no transit system that can get me to work. I guess I could take a greyhound every morning and then cab it from the bus station? That would be completely time inefficient. Until my work sends a helicopter for me every morning, I'm going to have to continue to drive.

Why would anyone near a cheap Ohio city have a 100 mile round trip commute?

Well it seems you chose to live in the boonies and now you are biatching.

I live in Cincy, like five minutes from downtown. My office is in Dayton, straight up 75. Nice try, smart ass.



Cincy? Dayton? I think Travis's point still stands.

/Enjoy your shiat chili
 
2014-08-03 10:23:04 AM
TANSTAFP.
 
2014-08-03 10:35:13 AM
Those charts, even as explained, were confusing to try and read. And one major factor that they see to have left out is the choice of incentives (if any) that the employer offered vs the location of the business (ie. if you were located near a metro stop then offering a metro pass would makes sense). Then again, if I drive to work in my own car then I can stop at the grocery store after work and get a weeks worth of groceries. Taking the bus, not so much.

/this might change IF an area was designed with multi-mode transportation in mind from the start and not shoe-horned in as an afterthought
//and most places that try to shoe-horn something in do a halfhearted piss poor job
///at least the contractors make a ton of money, which is likely the real purpose anyway
 
2014-08-03 10:52:03 AM
If I was king of the universe, public transportation would be free.

Of course, in my fantasy world, public transportation would also be designed, funded, and run by competent people who believe that the primary purpose of public transportation is to efficiently move people from where they are to where they want to be.
 
2014-08-03 10:54:09 AM

The Larch: If I was king of the universe, public transportation would be free.

Of course, in my fantasy world, public transportation would also be designed, funded, and run by competent people who believe that the primary purpose of public transportation is to efficiently move people from where they are to where they want to be.


If it's funded by someone, it isn't free. You're part of the problem. You think that just because one or more parties are receiving a benefit without directly funding it, that it's "free". That isn't the case.
 
2014-08-03 11:00:02 AM

untaken_name: If it's funded by someone, it isn't free. You're part of the problem.


And if you don't recognize "free roads" aren't actually free (and aren't even funded by the gas tax anymore, not that the massive real estate cost they embody ever was), you're part of the problem too.
 
2014-08-03 11:18:50 AM

untaken_name: The Larch: If I was king of the universe, public transportation would be free.

Of course, in my fantasy world, public transportation would also be designed, funded, and run by competent people who believe that the primary purpose of public transportation is to efficiently move people from where they are to where they want to be.

If it's funded by someone, it isn't free. You're part of the problem. You think that just because one or more parties are receiving a benefit without directly funding it, that it's "free". That isn't the case.


Safe, efficient, and reliable transportation is one of the building blocks of civilization. It is part of the basic infrastructure that every sane human being understands and agrees should be provided collectively, through taxes.
 
2014-08-03 11:36:09 AM

mr lawson: If given a choice, most normal people don't LIKE public transit and those who use it.


I really like trains and subways (they're fast and make few stops, plus you can surf the web, read, or listen to music while commuting).  Buses, not so much.  If MARTA here in Atlanta had better penetration throughout the city, I would take it more.  As it stands now, we end up driving most of the time :(

/oh, how I hate driving!
 
2014-08-03 12:05:33 PM
City problems

/*uck cities
 
2014-08-03 12:20:24 PM

LesserEvil: Our house rules are that Free Parking collects the accumulated fines, taxes, and fees.

[img2u.info image 500x375]
I see in the latest game rules book, however, Hasbro has gone out of their way to dissuade anybody from doing that, even while introducing new things like a "Speed die" and some new Community Chest/Chance cards as well as new values on almost everything.

Screw you, Hasbro!


Nobody has 5 hours to play monopoly.  And because the game lasts forever, nobody wants to start a game.  The injection of free money into the economy (a la House Rules Free Parking) is a big reason the game can last so long.  Maybe its a crappy game, since having buildings on all the properties is something to aspire to, but the object is to squeeze people out one by one, and do so in a reasonable amount of time.  If that is best accomplished by severely limiting resources, so be it.
 
2014-08-03 12:27:52 PM
I think a preference for public transit/bikes depends on a number of factors, among them I would include:

1.  Are you a desk jockey or do you often need to go to client offices at remote locations?  At one time in my career, I spent 90% of my time at the office and at that time, taking public transit worked pretty well for me.  Later, I was moved up and spent a significant amount of my time off site going to a variety of locations up to 100 miles away, sometimes on short notice.  At that point, public transit was less attractive to me.

2.  Public transit time vs. driving time.

3.  Quality of public transit experience.  When I was in SF and took the 30/45 thru Chinatown 2x/day to and from CalTrain station it was pretty poor quality but great in terms of a scenic experience.  CalTrain was great, clean and fast.

4.  Pay level of employee.

5.  Free parking, as noted.  Prior to my promotion, I did not get free parking and avoided driving for a long time.
 
2014-08-03 03:23:45 PM
And THIS, people, is why metered parking exists. In the downtown area of even small towns, parking is a limited commodity, and they have to make sure everyone gets a chance.
 
2014-08-03 03:25:11 PM
I pay for parking and get free public transit, and even free the transit isn't worth it.  I have a 10-15 minute drive including parking and get to pick up my kids and take them places if I use the car, or I can have an at best 45 minute and sometimes much longer trip on the bus (due to a connection and the fact the bus is a central spoke system so I have to go out of my way when using it) and no way to take the kids anywhere.  I used the bus for a year and gave it a fair shot, and just had to become a driver to keep my sanity and to have another hour a day with my family.  Even when my kids are grown and out of the house I will not return to the bus, it just is too damn slow.
 
2014-08-03 04:17:04 PM
Ask the people of Chicago about "free" parking - Dickie Daley licensed the parking meters in the
city to a private firm for 75 years for $1B cash....the cash is gone, and the lease has about 70 years
to run.  (So Seedy Rahm - consider the pronunciation - puts out red-light cameras to soak the folks
for $100 a pop, tinkered with when the city needs extra cash.)
 
2014-08-03 04:47:50 PM

ghare: And here's the REAL reason Republicans hate mass transit - those people get to use it
/yes, we've noticed you're a racist.


Libertarian.
Not racist
I am, however, an elitist and a positive eugenists.
I dislike all dumb, poor people.
 
2014-08-03 04:50:35 PM
The real cost of free parking is on local tax revenue. Rather than having a parking lot the size of a small county surrounding suburban box stores, imagine if there were homes there instead. The increased density means more people covering the costs of municipal services, not to mention it is far more affordable to service denser concentrations of people than sprawl.

Likewise this concentration of people may be enough for smaller establishments to thrive, leading to a fine grained mixed use neighbourhood.

/urban studies hraduate
//looking for a job in urban planning
///will likely have to go for a masters to get a job
 
2014-08-03 10:33:17 PM
I live in one Atlanta suburb and commute to another one. It takes me about 45 minutes each way by car. Taking CCT and Marta is 3.5 hours each way according to Google Maps, and that is going several miles the wrong direction first.
 
2014-08-03 10:50:16 PM
I went to D.C once.. got towed within an hour after paying for parking..  Had to pay the ticket for parking incorrect (I wasn't), ticket for the tow (which was literally a block) and a ticket for parking where they towed me to ($100 each)

They really don't want people to drive in D.C.
 
2014-08-03 11:22:20 PM
What is the deal with those charts? Whoever designed those should be ashamed of themselves.
 
2014-08-03 11:46:24 PM
I dealt with paying for parking when I had to for the job. I've been transferred to another site with parking available on-premises, the savings more than covers the extra distance.

Except for special events (the operators of which get an earful, if I even bother to keep going), paid parking makes an area no-go. For any normal purpose apart from the job, I can find nearby equivalents without having to pay the poor-planning charge.
 
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