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(Yahoo)   Parents of the year hire woman as surrogate mother of twins, take healthy girl home but ditch boy that has Down syndrome and congenital heart defect in foreign country   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 147
    More: Sick, Thai, Australians, child abandonment, twin boys  
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8172 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Aug 2014 at 10:50 PM (6 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-01 08:27:12 PM
Because twins were involved, it was one count of child trafficking and one count of not child trafficking.
 
2014-08-01 08:38:56 PM
I hope their identities are found out and they are exposed.

By the kindness of strangers this baby boy may hopefully suffer a little less in what will surely be his short life; the heart problems sound frightening. At least the surrogate chose to keep and love him.

I.... that is all.
 
2014-08-01 08:43:30 PM

Kevin72: Because twins were involved, it was one count of child trafficking and one count of not child trafficking.


Their sperm and egg.
Gross negligence and child abandonment.

/I know it's complicated
 
2014-08-01 08:51:45 PM
this is why we need to bring back public hangings ...
 
2014-08-01 08:56:48 PM

lindalouwho: Their sperm and egg.
Gross


Well, obviously.
 
2014-08-01 09:03:22 PM
Did their contract include the extended warranty/free-return option? If so, it's totes legit.
 
2014-08-01 09:04:03 PM

doglover: lindalouwho: Their sperm and egg.
Gross

Well, obviously.


Really? I mean, reallllly? Lol
 
2014-08-01 09:59:41 PM
Well, the Austrians were big fans of eugenics for a while.
 
2014-08-01 10:52:08 PM
Animals do that.
 
2014-08-01 10:53:26 PM
Wow, did it just get hotter? Or was that the fires of Hell getting turned up a notch?
 
2014-08-01 10:55:44 PM

namatad: this is why we need to bring back public hangings ...


I can't believe that you would suggest hanging a child just because it has a defect. Shame on you. You're as bad as the parents.
 
2014-08-01 10:56:05 PM

Wolf892: Big deal, exactly how I'd handle it. A down's baby is just another middle finger from god. Eff, him. I say there's nothing wrong with "return to sender" on a down's baby.


not how i'd put it, but cant say i have any sympathy for either side.

i love how all these armchair warriors cry foul, but if they found themselves in a similar situation, you can be damn sure theyd seriously consider the option and i know more than a few would do the same thing.

/pathetic.
 
2014-08-01 10:56:32 PM
I remember going on a orphanage visit with 2 australian couples who came to Colombia to adopt babies.

The question was asked "where are the lighter skinned babies kept?"
 
2014-08-01 10:58:10 PM

xtech: Wolf892: Big deal, exactly how I'd handle it. A down's baby is just another middle finger from god. Eff, him. I say there's nothing wrong with "return to sender" on a down's baby.

not how i'd put it, but cant say i have any sympathy for either side.

i love how all these armchair warriors cry foul, but if they found themselves in a similar situation, you can be damn sure theyd seriously consider the option and i know more than a few would do the same thing.

/pathetic.


Not everyone's a sociopathic loser, you know.
 
2014-08-01 10:58:59 PM

reported: Did their contract include the extended warranty/free-return option? If so, it's totes legit.


I think they got into trouble because they wouldn't pay the 15% restocking fee.
 
2014-08-01 11:00:49 PM

theflatline: I remember going on a orphanage visit with 2 australian couples who came to Colombia to adopt babies.

The question was asked "where are the lighter skinned babies kept?"


Eh, not like the question would have been a huge shock coming from Latin Americans either.
 
2014-08-01 11:01:02 PM

fusillade762: Well, the Austrians were big fans of eugenics for a while.


They were Australian.
 
2014-08-01 11:01:11 PM
I ain't payin' for no broke-ass kid!
 
2014-08-01 11:03:35 PM
The story was presented much differently on NPR this morning. It was discovered that the egg had developed into twins early in the pregnancy and one fetus tested positive for Down's Syndrome and other abnormalities. The parents wanted neither twins nor a baby with medical issues, so they instructed the surrogate to have an abortion of the abnormal fetus. She refused due to religious beliefs. So, when the babies were born, the agent took only the healthy baby and left the surrogate with the one with Down's Syndrome. .
 
2014-08-01 11:04:19 PM
The only problem with this is that they ditched the kid 9 months too late. Down's Syndrome is clearly visible (even to the lay-person) on the amniocentesis print-out. They shouldn't have been surprised. This is why everyone should get amniocentesis done and any fetuses with extra chromosomes should be culled before they're actually babies. Dicks.
 
2014-08-01 11:07:23 PM

DrBrownCow: The story was presented much differently on NPR this morning. It was discovered that the egg had developed into twins early in the pregnancy and one fetus tested positive for Down's Syndrome and other abnormalities. The parents wanted neither twins nor a baby with medical issues, so they instructed the surrogate to have an abortion of the abnormal fetus. She refused due to religious beliefs. So, when the babies were born, the agent took only the healthy baby and left the surrogate with the one with Down's Syndrome. .


Well if that's the case, maybe she deserves to raise a little Corky Thatcher on her own.
 
2014-08-01 11:09:41 PM

DrBrownCow: The story was presented much differently on NPR this morning. It was discovered that the egg had developed into twins early in the pregnancy and one fetus tested positive for Down's Syndrome and other abnormalities. The parents wanted neither twins nor a baby with medical issues, so they instructed the surrogate to have an abortion of the abnormal fetus. She refused due to religious beliefs. So, when the babies were born, the agent took only the healthy baby and left the surrogate with the one with Down's Syndrome. .


Thank you for the extra information. If religious fundies want to pull stunts like this, they can live with the consequences of their stupidity. Also, severe heart defects are common with Downs.

i1211.photobucket.com
 
2014-08-01 11:10:13 PM
Stories like this really make me think that the ancient Hawaiians were smarter than we give them credit for.

Some people just really need to be thrown into a farking volcano.
 
2014-08-01 11:11:00 PM

DrBrownCow: The story was presented much differently on NPR this morning. It was discovered that the egg had developed into twins early in the pregnancy and one fetus tested positive for Down's Syndrome and other abnormalities. The parents wanted neither twins nor a baby with medical issues, so they instructed the surrogate to have an abortion of the abnormal fetus. She refused due to religious beliefs. So, when the babies were born, the agent took only the healthy baby and left the surrogate with the one with Down's Syndrome. .


An egg that "develops into twins" can't produce a boy and a girl. Pretty sure it also can't produce one with Downs and one without.
 
2014-08-01 11:11:14 PM

xtech: Wolf892: Big deal, exactly how I'd handle it. A down's baby is just another middle finger from god. Eff, him. I say there's nothing wrong with "return to sender" on a down's baby.

not how i'd put it, but cant say i have any sympathy for either side.

i love how all these armchair warriors cry foul, but if they found themselves in a similar situation, you can be damn sure theyd seriously consider the option and i know more than a few would do the same thing.

/pathetic.


The option of dumping the Down's syndrome baby conceived with their sperm and egg on the desperately poor surrogate mother instead? That's an option to consider, if you're a sociopath.

/they could have paid for the fetal screening
 
2014-08-01 11:14:21 PM
Why wasn't this part of the agreement?  Shouldn't you screen for willingness to abort in your surrogates?
 
2014-08-01 11:14:35 PM

AbortionsForAll: The only problem with this is that they ditched the kid 9 months too late. Down's Syndrome is clearly visible (even to the lay-person) on the amniocentesis print-out. They shouldn't have been surprised. This is why everyone should get amniocentesis done and any fetuses with extra chromosomes should be culled before they're actually babies. Dicks.


2/10 but in case you were serious - Are you actually advocating sticking a needle into EVERY pregnant woman's belly, when a diagnostic ultrasound is the safer option? Not quite as accurate, but then it doesn't run the risk of causing a miscarriage.
 
2014-08-01 11:15:12 PM

DrBrownCow: The story was presented much differently on NPR this morning. It was discovered that the egg had developed into twins early in the pregnancy and one fetus tested positive for Down's Syndrome and other abnormalities. The parents wanted neither twins nor a baby with medical issues, so they instructed the surrogate to have an abortion of the abnormal fetus. She refused due to religious beliefs. So, when the babies were born, the agent took only the healthy baby and left the surrogate with the one with Down's Syndrome. .


Ok, I take that back, that changes things. In that case, maybe the surrogate mother deserves to have the Downs baby dumped on her.

But the Australian couple really, really should have considered this as a possibility and worked this out ahead of time.
 
2014-08-01 11:17:23 PM

bunner: Animals do that.


Too bad we don't have something like the Gom Jabbar in "Dune" to determine their humanity...

/ "put your hand in the box"
 
2014-08-01 11:17:37 PM

ol' gormsby: AbortionsForAll: The only problem with this is that they ditched the kid 9 months too late. Down's Syndrome is clearly visible (even to the lay-person) on the amniocentesis print-out. They shouldn't have been surprised. This is why everyone should get amniocentesis done and any fetuses with extra chromosomes should be culled before they're actually babies. Dicks.

2/10 but in case you were serious - Are you actually advocating sticking a needle into EVERY pregnant woman's belly, when a diagnostic ultrasound is the safer option? Not quite as accurate, but then it doesn't run the risk of causing a miscarriage.


Amniocentesis is completely routine and totally safe. There is no real "risk" involved. It's a standard diagnostic procedure, usually used simply to determine the gender of the fetus. There is no good reason to not have it done extremely early in the pregnancy (and that's another thing, I specifically said it should be used EARLY in the pregnancy).
 
2014-08-01 11:18:39 PM

Need_MindBleach: xtech: Wolf892: Big deal, exactly how I'd handle it. A down's baby is just another middle finger from god. Eff, him. I say there's nothing wrong with "return to sender" on a down's baby.

not how i'd put it, but cant say i have any sympathy for either side.

i love how all these armchair warriors cry foul, but if they found themselves in a similar situation, you can be damn sure theyd seriously consider the option and i know more than a few would do the same thing.

/pathetic.

The option of dumping the Down's syndrome baby conceived with their sperm and egg on the desperately poor surrogate mother instead? That's an option to consider, if you're a sociopath.

/they could have paid for the fetal screening


I'd imagine that aborting the Downs twin would possibly have endangered the standard twin sharing the uterus... But even so, shouldn't they have screened the embryos before implant?

Definitely some shady shiat going on.

I should send my cousin with Downs over there to straighten these assholes out, but she's too nice a person to want to cause anybody any pain.
 
2014-08-01 11:20:19 PM

poison_amy: An egg that "develops into twins" can't produce a boy and a girl. Pretty sure it also can't produce one with Downs and one without.


You are correct, of course.   The basics of the story are still the same in that the parents did not intend to have twins and requested the surrogate to have an abortion as soon as the abnormal fetus was discovered.

The article below mentions the refusal to have an abortion.   Many other articles are written to suggest that the parents showed up after the babies were born, discovered one had Down's Syndrome, and left him.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/aus tr alia/11005285/Australian-couple-abandon-surrogate-twin-with-Downs-synd rome-but-keep-his-sister.html
 
2014-08-01 11:20:21 PM

DrBrownCow: The story was presented much differently on NPR this morning. It was discovered that the egg had developed into twins early in the pregnancy and one fetus tested positive for Down's Syndrome and other abnormalities. The parents wanted neither twins nor a baby with medical issues, so they instructed the surrogate to have an abortion of the abnormal fetus. She refused due to religious beliefs. So, when the babies were born, the agent took only the healthy baby and left the surrogate with the one with Down's Syndrome. .


Is it possible to selectively abort one fetus in a twins situation?  I've never really thought about that.
 
2014-08-01 11:21:19 PM

Guilty_plea_bargain: DrBrownCow: The story was presented much differently on NPR this morning. It was discovered that the egg had developed into twins early in the pregnancy and one fetus tested positive for Down's Syndrome and other abnormalities. The parents wanted neither twins nor a baby with medical issues, so they instructed the surrogate to have an abortion of the abnormal fetus. She refused due to religious beliefs. So, when the babies were born, the agent took only the healthy baby and left the surrogate with the one with Down's Syndrome. .

Well if that's the case, maybe she deserves to raise a little Corky Thatcher on her own.


I am sure that religion is something discussed with a surrogate as it is something that can greatly affect the outcome of the surrogacy. I find it difficult to believe that the couple was unaware of the surrogate's religious beliefs and her views on abortion. My understanding is that topic is part of the screening of surrogacy candidate.
 
2014-08-01 11:21:54 PM
Down syndrome. No 's' on the end.
 
2014-08-01 11:22:51 PM

AbortionsForAll: ol' gormsby: AbortionsForAll: The only problem with this is that they ditched the kid 9 months too late. Down's Syndrome is clearly visible (even to the lay-person) on the amniocentesis print-out. They shouldn't have been surprised. This is why everyone should get amniocentesis done and any fetuses with extra chromosomes should be culled before they're actually babies. Dicks.

2/10 but in case you were serious - Are you actually advocating sticking a needle into EVERY pregnant woman's belly, when a diagnostic ultrasound is the safer option? Not quite as accurate, but then it doesn't run the risk of causing a miscarriage.

Amniocentesis is completely routine and totally safe. There is no real "risk" involved. It's a standard diagnostic procedure, usually used simply to determine the gender of the fetus. There is no good reason to not have it done extremely early in the pregnancy (and that's another thing, I specifically said it should be used EARLY in the pregnancy).


There are lots of good reasons not to do it. The best is that there are non-invasive blood tests that give you the same information without the discomfort or risk (which is very small but does exist). But if you're doing in vitro, just test them before implantation.
 
2014-08-01 11:23:19 PM

Alicious: Guilty_plea_bargain: DrBrownCow: The story was presented much differently on NPR this morning. It was discovered that the egg had developed into twins early in the pregnancy and one fetus tested positive for Down's Syndrome and other abnormalities. The parents wanted neither twins nor a baby with medical issues, so they instructed the surrogate to have an abortion of the abnormal fetus. She refused due to religious beliefs. So, when the babies were born, the agent took only the healthy baby and left the surrogate with the one with Down's Syndrome. .

Well if that's the case, maybe she deserves to raise a little Corky Thatcher on her own.

I am sure that religion is something discussed with a surrogate as it is something that can greatly affect the outcome of the surrogacy. I find it difficult to believe that the couple was unaware of the surrogate's religious beliefs and her views on abortion. My understanding is that topic is part of the screening of surrogacy candidate.


FTA it sounds like it was an under the table situation, as the surrogacy wasn't strictly legal under the conditions allowed in Thailand.
 
2014-08-01 11:24:07 PM

poison_amy: DrBrownCow: The story was presented much differently on NPR this morning. It was discovered that the egg had developed into twins early in the pregnancy and one fetus tested positive for Down's Syndrome and other abnormalities. The parents wanted neither twins nor a baby with medical issues, so they instructed the surrogate to have an abortion of the abnormal fetus. She refused due to religious beliefs. So, when the babies were born, the agent took only the healthy baby and left the surrogate with the one with Down's Syndrome. .

An egg that "develops into twins" can't produce a boy and a girl. Pretty sure it also can't produce one with Downs and one without.


Yeah, but for IVF its not uncommon to use multiple eggs, put 'em all in, and hope at least one takes.  That's how we end up with Octomom
 
2014-08-01 11:25:52 PM
meh.  no reason to waste good money on bad product.  everyone is judging them, but most everyone sure as shiat wouldn't want to raise that kid either.
 
2014-08-01 11:26:15 PM
Congrats! Here is your drooling money-sapping and life-destroying ree-ree!
 
2014-08-01 11:29:19 PM

Guilty_plea_bargain: fusillade762: Well, the Austrians were big fans of eugenics for a while.

They were Australian.


No, Hitler was from Austria.
 
2014-08-01 11:29:45 PM

AbortionsForAll: ol' gormsby: AbortionsForAll: The only problem with this is that they ditched the kid 9 months too late. Down's Syndrome is clearly visible (even to the lay-person) on the amniocentesis print-out. They shouldn't have been surprised. This is why everyone should get amniocentesis done and any fetuses with extra chromosomes should be culled before they're actually babies. Dicks.

2/10 but in case you were serious - Are you actually advocating sticking a needle into EVERY pregnant woman's belly, when a diagnostic ultrasound is the safer option? Not quite as accurate, but then it doesn't run the risk of causing a miscarriage.

Amniocentesis is completely routine and totally safe. There is no real "risk" involved. It's a standard diagnostic procedure, usually used simply to determine the gender of the fetus. There is no good reason to not have it done extremely early in the pregnancy (and that's another thing, I specifically said it should be used EARLY in the pregnancy).


Amniocentesis can't be done until the 18th week, and it absolutely does carry a risk of miscarriage. It is not used to determine the sex of the baby. It's used to screen high risk mothers or confirm an ultrasound diagnosis.
 
2014-08-01 11:30:15 PM

DrBrownCow: The story was presented much differently on NPR this morning. It was discovered that the egg had developed into twins early in the pregnancy and one fetus tested positive for Down's Syndrome and other abnormalities. The parents wanted neither twins nor a baby with medical issues, so they instructed the surrogate to have an abortion of the abnormal fetus. She refused due to religious beliefs. So, when the babies were born, the agent took only the healthy baby and left the surrogate with the one with Down's Syndrome. .


A reputable surrogacy agency should have covered this issue.
 
2014-08-01 11:30:40 PM

theflatline: I remember going on a orphanage visit with 2 australian couples who came to Colombia to adopt babies.

The question was asked "where are the lighter skinned babies kept?"


On the flip side, I know of a couple in the U.S. who adopted a boy from India and tried to the return the boy because he wasn't dark skinned enough.  He looked too "American" and so the family wasn't getting the attention they wanted for being big-hearted, adoptive parents.  They turned around and adopted another (dark skinned) Indian girl a year later.  A friend's parents adopted the little boy out of foster care - I was appalled when I heard the story of how they'd gotten him.
 
2014-08-01 11:31:11 PM

TV's Vinnie: Congrats! Here is your drooling money-sapping and life-destroying ree-ree!


you're not supposed to tell the non-parents the truth...
 
2014-08-01 11:33:38 PM

Munchlet24: AbortionsForAll: ol' gormsby: AbortionsForAll: The only problem with this is that they ditched the kid 9 months too late. Down's Syndrome is clearly visible (even to the lay-person) on the amniocentesis print-out. They shouldn't have been surprised. This is why everyone should get amniocentesis done and any fetuses with extra chromosomes should be culled before they're actually babies. Dicks.

2/10 but in case you were serious - Are you actually advocating sticking a needle into EVERY pregnant woman's belly, when a diagnostic ultrasound is the safer option? Not quite as accurate, but then it doesn't run the risk of causing a miscarriage.

Amniocentesis is completely routine and totally safe. There is no real "risk" involved. It's a standard diagnostic procedure, usually used simply to determine the gender of the fetus. There is no good reason to not have it done extremely early in the pregnancy (and that's another thing, I specifically said it should be used EARLY in the pregnancy).

Amniocentesis can't be done until the 18th week, and it absolutely does carry a risk of miscarriage. It is not used to determine the sex of the baby. It's used to screen high risk mothers or confirm an ultrasound diagnosis.


for fark's sake there's the fetal dna in the maternal blood test that will become the standard of care and can be done between 10-12 weeks.  it'll tell you the sex, the downs, and more and all by drawing mom's blood through vein in her arm.  down's is preventable with some testing.  but you're right amnio isn't "early" and there is some minimum risk (probably less than 1 in 1000).
 
2014-08-01 11:34:18 PM

AbortionsForAll: ol' gormsby: AbortionsForAll: The only problem with this is that they ditched the kid 9 months too late. Down's Syndrome is clearly visible (even to the lay-person) on the amniocentesis print-out. They shouldn't have been surprised. This is why everyone should get amniocentesis done and any fetuses with extra chromosomes should be culled before they're actually babies. Dicks.

2/10 but in case you were serious - Are you actually advocating sticking a needle into EVERY pregnant woman's belly, when a diagnostic ultrasound is the safer option? Not quite as accurate, but then it doesn't run the risk of causing a miscarriage.

Amniocentesis is completely routine and totally safe. There is no real "risk" involved. It's a standard diagnostic procedure, usually used simply to determine the gender of the fetus. There is no good reason to not have it done extremely early in the pregnancy (and that's another thing, I specifically said it should be used EARLY in the pregnancy).


"known to cause miscarraiges" != "totally safe". Statistically safe, perhaps. Lots of medical procedures are routine, but that doesn't make them totally safe. Poking a sampling needle through a woman's abdomen and on into the uterus should be a carefully considered decision, and not done for trivial reasons.
 
2014-08-01 11:35:01 PM

Moopy Mac: Guilty_plea_bargain: fusillade762: Well, the Austrians were big fans of eugenics for a while.

They were Australian.

No, Hitler was from Austria.


That took way to long.
 
2014-08-01 11:35:23 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Alicious: Guilty_plea_bargain: DrBrownCow: The story was presented much differently on NPR this morning. It was discovered that the egg had developed into twins early in the pregnancy and one fetus tested positive for Down's Syndrome and other abnormalities. The parents wanted neither twins nor a baby with medical issues, so they instructed the surrogate to have an abortion of the abnormal fetus. She refused due to religious beliefs. So, when the babies were born, the agent took only the healthy baby and left the surrogate with the one with Down's Syndrome. .

Well if that's the case, maybe she deserves to raise a little Corky Thatcher on her own.

I am sure that religion is something discussed with a surrogate as it is something that can greatly affect the outcome of the surrogacy. I find it difficult to believe that the couple was unaware of the surrogate's religious beliefs and her views on abortion. My understanding is that topic is part of the screening of surrogacy candidate.

FTA it sounds like it was an under the table situation, as the surrogacy wasn't strictly legal under the conditions allowed in Thailand.


It may have been but it would have been legal in Australia and there would have been a surrogacy contract so that the potential parents could enforce their end.
 
2014-08-01 11:36:17 PM

AbortionsForAll: Amniocentesis is completely routine and totally safe. There is no real "risk" involved. It's a standard diagnostic procedure, usually used simply to determine the gender of the fetus. There is no good reason to not have it done extremely early in the pregnancy (and that's another thing, I specifically said it should be used EARLY in the pregnancy).


1% abortion risk. (Nice handle.)

I heard a sad story about a whoops pregnancy by a lady in her 40s who thought she was done with kids. She was considering whether she wanted to go through with it. Super Catholic, BTW. Got an amniocentesis to rule out chromosomal problems considering her age. While she was waiting for the results she decided she wanted to keep it. Then she had an miscarriage. The lab called her to give her the good news "Congratulations, it's a healthy baby girl."

The amniocentesis probably didn't cause the abortion, but I'm sure it still haunts her.
 
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