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(The New York Times)   The current mess in the Middle East just got a bit more confusing as Arab states line up against Hamas   (nytimes.com) divider line 233
    More: Interesting, Hamas, Gaza, Palestinians, Arab leaders, Israelis, Palestinian territories, Gazans, Israeli-American  
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7423 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Aug 2014 at 3:03 PM (12 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-01 01:10:15 PM  
But, but, but those bad guys look just like those bad guys. . . I don't know which bad guys to hate more?!?
 
2014-08-01 01:21:27 PM  
Nobody likes a loose cannon.
 
2014-08-01 01:25:32 PM  
Hamas puts political objectives before people's lives. This is nothing new, and it's pretty horrible.

That said...

Here's the mistake that both the U.S. and Israel (whom I will refer to here as a collective "us") keep making with Arabic terrorists groups: They are fighting a different battle than we are. They know full well that they cannot beat us militarily, but they also know that we tend to use our overwhelming strength and overreact to relatively minor attacks on their part. 

They blow up a public market, kill 20 people and injure 100, we send bombs and troops in and kill 2,000 people and wound 10,000, destroying homes, places of worship, schools, hospitals in doing so. Consequently, who does the whole world find the most fault in? Us. 

That small terrorist attack from Hamas was forgotten about in the last news cycle. Our protracted incursion with a stated mission to go root out and destroy terrorist networks lasts weeks and months, destroys property, infrastructure and lives, and stories are told about it for generations, entire cultures shift because of it. 

Who's winning the long propaganda war here? It remains to be seen, I guess.
 
2014-08-01 01:40:57 PM  
what if i told subby that not all brown people are on the same team?
 
2014-08-01 01:43:09 PM  
"I have never seen a situation like it, where you have so many Arab states acquiescing in the death and destruction in Gaza and the pummeling of Hamas," he said. "The silence is deafening."

Because unlike the Israel loathing farklibs, the Arab states are pragmatic and know Hamas has to go.

Keep Kerry the fark away from this and let Israel finish this mess.
 
2014-08-01 01:47:18 PM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: Keep Kerry the fark away from this and let Israel finish this mess.


There's 1.8 million people in the Gaza strip.  Do you think Israel has enough bulldozers to push them all into the sea?
 
2014-08-01 02:20:03 PM  
There is no excuse for the war crimes of Hamas or Israel.

Both Netanyahu and Meshaal should be arrested and brought to the Hague for a war crimes tribunal.
 
2014-08-01 02:24:37 PM  
What a strange situation. Saudi Arabia, Jordon & Egypt support Israel...and the US does not.
 
2014-08-01 02:27:24 PM  

vernonFL: There is no excuse for the war crimes of Hamas or Israel.

Both Netanyahu and Meshaal should be arrested and brought to the Hague for a war crimes tribunal.


Well if Hamas didn't surround the motors they are using with children (farker had posted a video), launched missiles from apartment buildings and hospitals, maybe the number of 'innocents' wouldn't be so high.
 
2014-08-01 02:49:12 PM  

ferretman: What a strange situation. Saudi Arabia, Jordon & Egypt support Israel...and the US does not.


The US government doesn't support Israel?

When did this happen?
 
2014-08-01 02:50:38 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Keep Kerry the fark away from this and let Israel finish this mess.

There's 1.8 million people in the Gaza strip.  Do you think Israel has enough bulldozers to push them all into the sea?


If that was Israel's goal it would have happened long ago. They would simply like to live in peace.
 
2014-08-01 03:07:24 PM  

make me some tea: Hamas puts political objectives before people's lives. This is nothing new, and it's pretty horrible.

That said...

Here's the mistake that both the U.S. and Israel (whom I will refer to here as a collective "us") keep making with Arabic terrorists groups: They are fighting a different battle than we are. They know full well that they cannot beat us militarily, but they also know that we tend to use our overwhelming strength and overreact to relatively minor attacks on their part. 

They blow up a public market, kill 20 people and injure 100, we send bombs and troops in and kill 2,000 people and wound 10,000, destroying homes, places of worship, schools, hospitals in doing so. Consequently, who does the whole world find the most fault in? Us. 

That small terrorist attack from Hamas was forgotten about in the last news cycle. Our protracted incursion with a stated mission to go root out and destroy terrorist networks lasts weeks and months, destroys property, infrastructure and lives, and stories are told about it for generations, entire cultures shift because of it. 

Who's winning the long propaganda war here? It remains to be seen, I guess.


It's not so much that they're fighting a different battle. It's that anyone who wants to live is at a disadvantage when fighting someone who doesn't mind dying - in fact, welcomes the possibility.
 
2014-08-01 03:08:57 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: ferretman: What a strange situation. Saudi Arabia, Jordon & Egypt support Israel...and the US does not.

The US government doesn't support Israel?

When did this happen?


The US government asked them to maybe stop bombing UN-funded schools under its breath while pretending to cough earlier this week.
 
2014-08-01 03:10:22 PM  
Perhaps they should settle their differences while enjoying a delicious, nutritious snack platter.
www.budgetgourmetmom.com
 
2014-08-01 03:11:59 PM  

vernonFL: There is no excuse for the war crimes of Hamas or Israel.

Both Netanyahu and Meshaal should be arrested and brought to the Hague for a war crimes tribunal.


What war crimes is Israel committing? We do our absolute best to avoid civlian casualties. We inform people when we are going to bomb; Hamas threatens them to keep them from evacuating.

If Israel weren't taking unprecedented pains to avoid civilian casualties, the death toll in Gaza would be in the hundreds of thousands by now.

As it is, they have violated every single cease-fire in this current go-around - even the ones they themselves proposed.

What, exactly, do you suggest that Israel do to combat years of rocket attacks against its civlian population? Terrorist attacks?

Hamas is using civilian homes and UN facilities to store weapons. The UN finds rockets and gives them back to the "authorities" - which happen to be Hamas.

if you say haul everyone involved before The Hague, add UNRWA to the list.
 
2014-08-01 03:12:31 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: ferretman: What a strange situation. Saudi Arabia, Jordon & Egypt support Israel...and the US does not.

The US government doesn't support Israel?

When did this happen?


Cough... obama... cough
 
2014-08-01 03:12:51 PM  

Nogale: It's that anyone who wants to live is at a disadvantage when fighting someone who doesn't mind dying - in fact, welcomes the possibility.


Very true. Which is why religious extremism is the most dangerous thing humanity has to confront, and we must tread lightly.
 
2014-08-01 03:13:32 PM  

WhiskeySticks: Perhaps they should settle their differences while enjoying a delicious, nutritious snack platter.
[www.budgetgourmetmom.com image 800x600]


That picture is the definition of bland.
 
2014-08-01 03:16:08 PM  
Nogale:

It's not so much that they're fighting a different battle. It's that anyone who wants to live is at a disadvantage when fighting someone who doesn't mind dying - in fact, welcomes the possibility.


img.fark.net
 
2014-08-01 03:16:13 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: ferretman: What a strange situation. Saudi Arabia, Jordon & Egypt support Israel...and the US does not.

The US government doesn't support Israel?

When did this happen?


Just the other day:

President Obama demanded that Israel agree to a one-sided ceasefire during a heated phone conversation with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

http://nypost.com/2014/07/30/obama-demands-that-netanyahu-agree-to-c ea se-fireisraeli-tv/
 
2014-08-01 03:17:01 PM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: Marcus Aurelius: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Keep Kerry the fark away from this and let Israel finish this mess.

There's 1.8 million people in the Gaza strip.  Do you think Israel has enough bulldozers to push them all into the sea?

If that was Israel's goal it would have happened long ago. They would simply like to live in peace.


LOL.  Guess what's going to happen.  The arabs will all go into the sea.  Israelis get some new suburbs.
 
2014-08-01 03:17:57 PM  
The current mess in the Middle East just got a bit more confusing as Arab states line up against Hamas

It's not that confusing, but it does require understanding very few things are black & white, a bit of reading, an open mind, and an ability to restrain the pressure of repeating talking points from your buddies.
 
2014-08-01 03:19:01 PM  

vernonFL: There is no excuse for the war crimes of Hamas or Israel.

Both Netanyahu and Meshaal should be arrested and brought to the Hague for a war crimes tribunal.


they should be arrested, tied into a burlap sack with a monkey, snake, and rooster, and thrown into the Mediterranean [/roman history fan]
 
2014-08-01 03:20:13 PM  
Put all Gazans on a bus to Houston.
 
2014-08-01 03:20:30 PM  

make me some tea: Hamas puts political objectives before people's lives. This is nothing new, and it's pretty horrible.

That said...

Here's the mistake that both the U.S. and Israel (whom I will refer to here as a collective "us") keep making with Arabic terrorists groups: They are fighting a different battle than we are. They know full well that they cannot beat us militarily, but they also know that we tend to use our overwhelming strength and overreact to relatively minor attacks on their part. 

They blow up a public market, kill 20 people and injure 100, we send bombs and troops in and kill 2,000 people and wound 10,000, destroying homes, places of worship, schools, hospitals in doing so. Consequently, who does the whole world find the most fault in? Us. 

That small terrorist attack from Hamas was forgotten about in the last news cycle. Our protracted incursion with a stated mission to go root out and destroy terrorist networks lasts weeks and months, destroys property, infrastructure and lives, and stories are told about it for generations, entire cultures shift because of it. 

Who's winning the long propaganda war here? It remains to be seen, I guess.


By all accounts, Israel is "winning" this particular one. The calls for them to withdraw from Gaza prior to fulfilling their objectives are feeble at best. The exportation of terrorist attacks to Europe and the Americas was one of the dumbest strategic moves al Qaeda made; now EVERYBODY considers Arab militants to be the bad guys in every case. They should have stuck with taking over weak Muslim countries.
 
2014-08-01 03:20:32 PM  
Perhaps they should settle their differences while enjoying a delicious, nutritious snack platter pulled pork sammich.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-08-01 03:20:55 PM  

RoyBatty: The current mess in the Middle East just got a bit more confusing as Arab states line up against Hamas

It's not that confusing, but it does require understanding very few things are black & white, a bit of reading, an open mind, and an ability to restrain the pressure of repeating talking points from your buddies.


Even taking Israel out of the equation, the infighting between the various Islamic factions and subfactions and sub-subfactions and offshoots is fascinating, if troubling.

Always cracks me up (in a very unfunny way) when the Israeli-Palestinian problem is referred to as "the Middle East conflict." Do people have ANY idea how many conflicts there are here?
 
2014-08-01 03:21:04 PM  
It's only messy if you think "Arab" and "extremist" are synonymous with each other.
 
2014-08-01 03:22:25 PM  
Not news - if there's any group the average Arab hates almost as much as the Israelis, it's the Palestinians.

If you've ever heard an average Ecuadorian, Honduran, etc. talk about a Mexican - same idea. The average USA American might think they're homogeneous, but they aren't.
 
2014-08-01 03:22:32 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Keep Kerry the fark away from this and let Israel finish this mess.

There's 1.8 million people in the Gaza strip.  Do you think Israel has enough bulldozers to push them all into the sea?


For a crowd that large, you need German leadership.
 
2014-08-01 03:22:59 PM  

ferretman: Marcus Aurelius: ferretman: What a strange situation. Saudi Arabia, Jordon & Egypt support Israel...and the US does not.

The US government doesn't support Israel?

When did this happen?

Just the other day:

President Obama demanded that Israel agree to a one-sided ceasefire during a heated phone conversation with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

http://nypost.com/2014/07/30/obama-demands-that-netanyahu-agree-to-c ea se-fireisraeli-tv/


Well with such a non-biased source, who could possibly question the validity?
 
2014-08-01 03:23:04 PM  
I saw a TV show the other day----mainstream media, not a fringe network---where the announcer point--blank accused Israel of killing children in a school.

He should have known, as I do: Hamas puts rockets in schools, hospitals and mosques, forcing Israel to target those places.

The press is lying through its teeth on this one, and everybody sees it.
 
2014-08-01 03:23:35 PM  
Nogale

They are bombing schools and hospitals.

Israel tries not to kill civilians, they need to try a lot harder.
 
2014-08-01 03:23:59 PM  

Nogale: Do people have ANY idea how many conflicts there are here?


It's the only one that AIPAC directs our Congressman to inform us about.
 
2014-08-01 03:24:29 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-08-01 03:24:46 PM  
They should empty out Gaza and create a Neutral Zone.
 
2014-08-01 03:24:49 PM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: Marcus Aurelius: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Keep Kerry the fark away from this and let Israel finish this mess.

There's 1.8 million people in the Gaza strip.  Do you think Israel has enough bulldozers to push them all into the sea?

If that was Israel's goal it would have happened long ago. They would simply like to live in peace.


Most Israelis want that, as do most Palestinians. Unfortunately, a small minority of farktards can hold any Israeli hostage to continue colonizing the Arab-majority parts of the old Palestine Protectorate.

ferretman: Marcus Aurelius: ferretman: What a strange situation. Saudi Arabia, Jordon & Egypt support Israel...and the US does not.

The US government doesn't support Israel?

When did this happen?

Just the other day:

President Obama demanded that Israel agree to a one-sided ceasefire during a heated phone conversation with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

http://nypost.com/2014/07/30/obama-demands-that-netanyahu-agree-to-c ea se-fireisraeli-tv/


Bibi and the New York Post are claiming that. Yeah, those are a couple of credible, neutral sources on U.S. relations with Israel.

/Bibi is not Israel. Likud is not Israel. Claiming they are is like saying George W. Bush and the Tea Party are America.
 
2014-08-01 03:25:13 PM  
DNRTA.

I'm gonna take a wild guess here and say, I think the reason is, Hamas pretends like they are fighting for all Arabs, and all Islam, when in fact they are really only fighting for ther own agenda.  And in doing so, they have awoken a massive powerful military force that is killing and destroying Arabs and people of Islam.

In other words, the other Arab communities are basically saying, "You guys are a bunch of jerks for pissing of Israel so much."
 
2014-08-01 03:27:19 PM  

vernonFL: Nogale

They are bombing schools and hospitals.

Israel tries not to kill civilians, they need to try a lot harder.


They are bombing schools and hospitals because Hamas stores rockets there.
 
2014-08-01 03:27:46 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: ferretman: What a strange situation. Saudi Arabia, Jordon & Egypt support Israel...and the US does not.

The US government doesn't support Israel?

When did this happen?


When you demand a ceasefire that you know full well one side will not abide by you cannot claim to be supporting the other side.

Obama basically told Isreal to just let Hamas keep attacking you freely and without repercussions because it looks better politically for him.
 
2014-08-01 03:28:13 PM  

vernonFL: Nogale

They are bombing schools and hospitals.

Israel tries not to kill civilians, they need to try a lot harder.


Moreover, the attack on Shifa hospital wasn't even Israel, it was Hamas' own explosives.
 
2014-08-01 03:29:29 PM  

vernonFL: Nogale

They are bombing schools and hospitals.

Israel tries not to kill civilians, they need to try a lot harder.


Hamas is the one killing civilians, they place their own people in harm's way.
 
2014-08-01 03:29:44 PM  
www.nfltouchdown.com
 
2014-08-01 03:30:43 PM  
As far as most Muslim countries are concerned, Hamas = Muslim Brotherhood. They shot their wad overreaching in Egypt.
 
2014-08-01 03:33:13 PM  
I see something all you Farkers miss:

The population of Gaza was listed at 375 thousand at the end of the 1967 war.  It is 1.835 million today.  They are breeding like flies, they have no economy---and would not work even if jobs were available.

To varying degrees this is the case for all Moslems worldwide.

The problem can be boiled down to two words:  Too many.
 
m00
2014-08-01 03:34:57 PM  

Nogale: What, exactly, do you suggest that Israel do to combat years of rocket attacks against its civlian population? Terrorist attacks?


Accept defeat and leave the middle east. What makes you think it's fair to inflict European Jews on peaceful middle-eastern Arabs?

/sarcasm
 
2014-08-01 03:35:22 PM  

Nogale: vernonFL: Nogale

They are bombing schools and hospitals.

Israel tries not to kill civilians, they need to try a lot harder.

They are bombing schools and hospitals because Hamas stores rockets there.


That is a war crime which Hamas should answer for. It is not an excuse for Israel to bomb them.

Shelters and hospitals should be off limits, even if Hamas is storing weapons there.
 
2014-08-01 03:38:17 PM  
So, wait, wait, wait.

There's good Arabs and there's bad Arabs?

And if you kill some Arabs you might be killing good Arabs AND bad Arabs?

I think PM Netanyahu has some splainin to do.
 
2014-08-01 03:39:22 PM  

make me some tea: Nogale: It's that anyone who wants to live is at a disadvantage when fighting someone who doesn't mind dying - in fact, welcomes the possibility.

Very true. Which is why religious extremism is the most dangerous thing humanity has to confront, and we must tread lightly.


Nope, I'm going with asteroids. Definitely.
 
2014-08-01 03:40:04 PM  
They've resumed wholesale slaughter of human beings

Quick find out what this means for Obama!!
 
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